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Strange ARP issue on M7i

 

 

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universe at truemetal

Aug 14, 2012, 6:12 AM

Post #1 of 12 (518 views)
Permalink
Strange ARP issue on M7i

Hi all,

last night I encountered something weird (in my opinion). Not sure if
Juniper related but maybe someone here has seen something like this?

I was experiencing a strange effect that several websites hosted on a
Linux KVM VM didn't load properly. They would load but 90% of the time
hang in some strange way, the browser displaying "Waiting for
www.sitename.com..." after all the page has loaded, or even before
anything of the page was displayed. A minute later it would work
sometimes, but only for a short period of time. After eliminating all
MySQL, Apache, KVM etc. as the source of the problem I logged into the
M7i in front of that host and saw:

admin [at] ffm01> show arp no-resolve |grep 195.100.100.7
00:25:90:38:66:c6 195.100.100.7 ge-0/0/0.0 none
00:25:90:38:66:c6 195.100.101.34 ge-0/0/0.0 none

With 195.100.100.7 being the KVM host. So I thought: why is 101.34 up?
It's an IP that wasn't in use for years. And in the Juniper config a
whole /24 was still getting routed to it. I thought, OK, the KVM host
got hax0red or something and the intruder assigned 101.34, but couldnt
find anything. 101.34 wasn't reachable from any machine in the same LAN
and the MAC could not be seen either. No traffic to/from it on the
Switch monitoring port either. All I saw was traffic (port scans I
think) to the /24 which ended up on the KVM host (195.100.100.7). That
was an indicator that the KVM host was really also saying "I have
195.100.101.34". Or the Juniper insisted that the IP is at that MAC. I
suspect the latter. I shutdown the KVM host physically and cleared the
ARP cache on the Juniper, 195.100.100.7 was gone, but 195.100.101.34 was
still there with the identical MAC, as before.
I then removed the static route entry for the /24 which was pointing to
195.100.101.34 and only then the arp entry for 195.100.101.34 disappeared!

Isn't that weird? Where did that arp entry come from and why was it
saved on the Juniper for so long, and only got removed after I removed
the static routing of that /24?

I'm running JUNOS 8.0R2.8. :)

This didn't eliminate the problem with the websites reachability, I
think it is something local with my dialup connection as I see a lot of
TCP retransmission errors when accessing all sites on any of the VMs
hosted on that KVM host. Through an alternative dialup provider
everything is fine. Other sites on other boxes in the same LAN work just
fine though via the first provider. The problem comes and goes now.
Really puzzled!

Anyway, can't stop thinking about the ARP thing so I thought I would ask
here! Thank you very much!

Regards
Markus



_______________________________________________
juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp [at] puck
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp


SeniorJ at bennettjones

Aug 14, 2012, 12:37 PM

Post #2 of 12 (502 views)
Permalink
Re: Strange ARP issue on M7i [In reply to]

Hi, Markus.
I have experienced issues in previous deployments that have involved built-in ARP policers.

Hit up 'show policer', and look for __default_arp_policer__.

JP Senior


-----Original Message-----
From: juniper-nsp-bounces [at] puck [mailto:juniper-nsp-bounces [at] puck] On Behalf Of Markus
Sent: 14 August 2012 7:13 AM
To: juniper-nsp [at] puck
Subject: [j-nsp] Strange ARP issue on M7i

Hi all,

last night I encountered something weird (in my opinion). Not sure if Juniper related but maybe someone here has seen something like this?

I was experiencing a strange effect that several websites hosted on a Linux KVM VM didn't load properly. They would load but 90% of the time hang in some strange way, the browser displaying "Waiting for www.sitename.com..." after all the page has loaded, or even before anything of the page was displayed. A minute later it would work sometimes, but only for a short period of time. After eliminating all MySQL, Apache, KVM etc. as the source of the problem I logged into the M7i in front of that host and saw:

admin [at] ffm01> show arp no-resolve |grep 195.100.100.7
00:25:90:38:66:c6 195.100.100.7 ge-0/0/0.0 none
00:25:90:38:66:c6 195.100.101.34 ge-0/0/0.0 none

With 195.100.100.7 being the KVM host. So I thought: why is 101.34 up?
It's an IP that wasn't in use for years. And in the Juniper config a whole /24 was still getting routed to it. I thought, OK, the KVM host got hax0red or something and the intruder assigned 101.34, but couldnt find anything. 101.34 wasn't reachable from any machine in the same LAN and the MAC could not be seen either. No traffic to/from it on the Switch monitoring port either. All I saw was traffic (port scans I
think) to the /24 which ended up on the KVM host (195.100.100.7). That was an indicator that the KVM host was really also saying "I have 195.100.101.34". Or the Juniper insisted that the IP is at that MAC. I suspect the latter. I shutdown the KVM host physically and cleared the ARP cache on the Juniper, 195.100.100.7 was gone, but 195.100.101.34 was still there with the identical MAC, as before.
I then removed the static route entry for the /24 which was pointing to
195.100.101.34 and only then the arp entry for 195.100.101.34 disappeared!

Isn't that weird? Where did that arp entry come from and why was it saved on the Juniper for so long, and only got removed after I removed the static routing of that /24?

I'm running JUNOS 8.0R2.8. :)

This didn't eliminate the problem with the websites reachability, I think it is something local with my dialup connection as I see a lot of TCP retransmission errors when accessing all sites on any of the VMs hosted on that KVM host. Through an alternative dialup provider everything is fine. Other sites on other boxes in the same LAN work just fine though via the first provider. The problem comes and goes now.
Really puzzled!

Anyway, can't stop thinking about the ARP thing so I thought I would ask here! Thank you very much!

Regards
Markus



_______________________________________________
juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp [at] puck https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
The contents of this message may contain confidential and/or privileged
subject matter. If this message has been received in error, please contact
the sender and delete all copies. Like other forms of communication,
e-mail communications may be vulnerable to interception by unauthorized
parties. If you do not wish us to communicate with you by e-mail, please
notify us at your earliest convenience. In the absence of such
notification, your consent is assumed. Should you choose to allow us to
communicate by e-mail, we will not take any additional security measures
(such as encryption) unless specifically requested.


_______________________________________________
juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp [at] puck
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp


lists at tobias-heister

Aug 14, 2012, 1:00 PM

Post #3 of 12 (499 views)
Permalink
Re: Strange ARP issue on M7i [In reply to]

Hi

Am 14.08.2012 15:12, schrieb Markus:
> Isn't that weird? Where did that arp entry come from and why was it saved on the Juniper for so long, and only got removed after I removed the static routing of that /24?

We saw a similar thing a short time ago on an MX480 running 10.4R9
In our case it was a bgp route pointing to a no longer existing ip address as the next-hop. The arp entry for this ip address stayed active as long as there was an active route for it.
Even clearing the arp cache witch clear arp hostname x.x.x.x did not do the trick. The next-hop ip was gone for several weeks and the arp entry had low timeout values left but never expired.
After clearing the route the arp entry vanished as expected.

I guess something keeps the arp entry from being deleted as long as there are or were forwarding entries in the fib for it at any time.

--
Kind Regards
Tobias Heister
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juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp [at] puck
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp


jof at thejof

Aug 14, 2012, 1:09 PM

Post #4 of 12 (501 views)
Permalink
Re: Strange ARP issue on M7i [In reply to]

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Tobias Heister <lists [at] tobias-heister> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Am 14.08.2012 15:12, schrieb Markus:
>> Isn't that weird? Where did that arp entry come from and why was it saved on the Juniper for so long, and only got removed after I removed the static routing of that /24?
>
> We saw a similar thing a short time ago on an MX480 running 10.4R9
> In our case it was a bgp route pointing to a no longer existing ip address as the next-hop. The arp entry for this ip address stayed active as long as there was an active route for it.
> Even clearing the arp cache witch clear arp hostname x.x.x.x did not do the trick. The next-hop ip was gone for several weeks and the arp entry had low timeout values left but never expired.
> After clearing the route the arp entry vanished as expected.
>
> I guess something keeps the arp entry from being deleted as long as there are or were forwarding entries in the fib for it at any time.

Probably because the underlying information ARP is learning is used to
build the next-hop in the forwarding table (which needs to know what
Ethernet address to put in the destination MAC).

However, I would think that the route should become unreachable or
pruned if ARP is failing.
What if the remote router died for some reason? If the ARP entry and
next-hop were kept into place, the path would not work, but the route
would stay active.
A dynamic routing protocol and BFD would be see this right away and
move traffic, but this would break any static routes that rely on any
dynamism with ARP and next-hops.

Moral of the story, as I see it: avoid static routing.

--j
_______________________________________________
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https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp


lists at tobias-heister

Aug 14, 2012, 1:20 PM

Post #5 of 12 (497 views)
Permalink
Re: Strange ARP issue on M7i [In reply to]

Hi,

Am 14.08.2012 22:09, schrieb Jonathan Lassoff:
> A dynamic routing protocol and BFD would be see this right away and
> move traffic, but this would break any static routes that rely on any
> dynamism with ARP and next-hops.
>
> Moral of the story, as I see it: avoid static routing.

At least in our case it was a bgp route with a third-party next-hop (server) living on a connected LAN segment.
So we could not be saved by BFD in this case, but i admit its a special setup.

But it is funny that this behavior is present across platforms (M7i to MX with DPC) and junos versions (from 8.0 to 10.4) but this of course may have been coincidence.

--
Kind Regards
Tobias Heister
_______________________________________________
juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp [at] puck
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp


jof at thejof

Aug 14, 2012, 1:27 PM

Post #6 of 12 (494 views)
Permalink
Re: Strange ARP issue on M7i [In reply to]

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Tobias Heister <lists [at] tobias-heister> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Am 14.08.2012 22:09, schrieb Jonathan Lassoff:
>> A dynamic routing protocol and BFD would be see this right away and
>> move traffic, but this would break any static routes that rely on any
>> dynamism with ARP and next-hops.
>>
>> Moral of the story, as I see it: avoid static routing.
>
> At least in our case it was a bgp route with a third-party next-hop (server) living on a connected LAN segment.
> So we could not be saved by BFD in this case, but i admit its a special setup.

I'm confused, because you said that "The next-hop ip was gone for
several weeks".

In this case, wouldn't BGP detect the neighbor as down and remove the
route from the RIB?

--j
_______________________________________________
juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp [at] puck
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp


lists at tobias-heister

Aug 14, 2012, 1:41 PM

Post #7 of 12 (497 views)
Permalink
Re: Strange ARP issue on M7i [In reply to]

Hi,

Am 14.08.2012 22:27, schrieb Jonathan Lassoff:
> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Tobias Heister <lists [at] tobias-heister> wrote:
>> Am 14.08.2012 22:09, schrieb Jonathan Lassoff:
>>> A dynamic routing protocol and BFD would be see this right away and
>>> move traffic, but this would break any static routes that rely on any
>>> dynamism with ARP and next-hops.
>>>
>>> Moral of the story, as I see it: avoid static routing.
>>
>> At least in our case it was a bgp route with a third-party next-hop (server) living on a connected LAN segment.
>> So we could not be saved by BFD in this case, but i admit its a special setup.
>
> I'm confused, because you said that "The next-hop ip was gone for
> several weeks".
>
> In this case, wouldn't BGP detect the neighbor as down and remove the
> route from the RIB?

The next-hop is not the neighbor in this scenario. The next-hop is a server on a connected lan segement while the bgp session is with an upstream router. The bgp neighbor was fine all the time.

Its basicly an injection setup (think of some kind of RTBH without blackholing but forwarding) Some router injects routes into bgp with subnet A pointing to server B. Server B was gone for some weeks (decommissioned) but nobody decommissioned the route pointing to the server. We found the situation while cleaning up.

As mentioned before it is a special setup in our case.

--
Kind Regards
Tobias Heister
_______________________________________________
juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp [at] puck
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp


saku at ytti

Aug 15, 2012, 12:13 AM

Post #8 of 12 (494 views)
Permalink
Re: Strange ARP issue on M7i [In reply to]

On (2012-08-14 13:09 -0700), Jonathan Lassoff wrote:

> Moral of the story, as I see it: avoid static routing.

This is bit circular. Vendor had software defect in ARP and you arrived to
conclusion consequently we should not use static routing, but dynamic.
However our choice of configuration does not affect quality of the code as
implemented by vendor, so just as well we might have BGP defect doing
something nasty, and someone might draw conclusion 'avoid bgp routing'.

Moral of the story is, avoid broken software, which is easier said than
done.

--
++ytti
_______________________________________________
juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp [at] puck
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp


jof at thejof

Aug 15, 2012, 12:21 AM

Post #9 of 12 (498 views)
Permalink
Re: Strange ARP issue on M7i [In reply to]

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 12:13 AM, Saku Ytti <saku [at] ytti> wrote:
> On (2012-08-14 13:09 -0700), Jonathan Lassoff wrote:
>
>> Moral of the story, as I see it: avoid static routing.
>
> This is bit circular. Vendor had software defect in ARP and you arrived to
> conclusion consequently we should not use static routing, but dynamic.
> However our choice of configuration does not affect quality of the code as
> implemented by vendor, so just as well we might have BGP defect doing
> something nasty, and someone might draw conclusion 'avoid bgp routing'.
>
> Moral of the story is, avoid broken software, which is easier said than
> done.

You make a very good point here.

My thing was more along the lines that routing (RIB) / next-hop path
information ought to be learned and/or monitored over protocols that
ride that same path, so that any path failures are detected and routed
around.
_______________________________________________
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https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp


saku at ytti

Aug 15, 2012, 12:41 AM

Post #10 of 12 (494 views)
Permalink
Re: Strange ARP issue on M7i [In reply to]

On (2012-08-15 00:21 -0700), Jonathan Lassoff wrote:

> My thing was more along the lines that routing (RIB) / next-hop path
> information ought to be learned and/or monitored over protocols that
> ride that same path, so that any path failures are detected and routed
> around.

In static route they are also, ARP timeout in JunOS is 20min by default, so
it'll just take quite long time to invalidate the static route (short of
bugs like the OP sees)

Cisco has 4h, which is absolutely ridiculous.

Linux uses 1min, which is better than default BGP holdtime in Cisco or
Juniper. So statically routed Linux would converge faster than BGP routed
Juniper in sudden disappearance of peer.

Of course both ARP timeout and BGP holdtime are tunable as well as either
BGP or static could run BFD.

--
++ytti
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universe at truemetal

Aug 15, 2012, 11:14 AM

Post #11 of 12 (496 views)
Permalink
Re: Strange ARP issue on M7i [In reply to]

Hi JP and all,

thanks for all the replies. "show policer" shows:

admin [at] ffm01> show policer
Policers:
Name Packets
__default_arp_policer__ 1140304
__policer_tmpl__-term 0
__policer_tmpl__-fc0 0
__policer_tmpl__-fc0 0
__policer_tmpl__-fc1 0
__policer_tmpl__-fc0 0
__policer_tmpl__-fc1 0
__policer_tmpl__-fc2 0
__policer_tmpl__-fc0 0
__policer_tmpl__-fc1 0
__policer_tmpl__-fc2 0
__policer_tmpl__-fc3 0

What does that mean?

I don't seem to have anything configured related to that:

admin [at] ffm01> show configuration | grep arp
< empty >

Thank you!
Markus


Am 14.08.2012 21:37, schrieb JP Senior:
> Hi, Markus.
> I have experienced issues in previous deployments that have involved built-in ARP policers.
>
> Hit up 'show policer', and look for __default_arp_policer__.
>
> JP Senior
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: juniper-nsp-bounces [at] puck [mailto:juniper-nsp-bounces [at] puck] On Behalf Of Markus
> Sent: 14 August 2012 7:13 AM
> To: juniper-nsp [at] puck
> Subject: [j-nsp] Strange ARP issue on M7i
>
> Hi all,
>
> last night I encountered something weird (in my opinion). Not sure if Juniper related but maybe someone here has seen something like this?
>
> I was experiencing a strange effect that several websites hosted on a Linux KVM VM didn't load properly. They would load but 90% of the time hang in some strange way, the browser displaying "Waiting for www.sitename.com..." after all the page has loaded, or even before anything of the page was displayed. A minute later it would work sometimes, but only for a short period of time. After eliminating all MySQL, Apache, KVM etc. as the source of the problem I logged into the M7i in front of that host and saw:
>
> admin [at] ffm01> show arp no-resolve |grep 195.100.100.7
> 00:25:90:38:66:c6 195.100.100.7 ge-0/0/0.0 none
> 00:25:90:38:66:c6 195.100.101.34 ge-0/0/0.0 none
>
> With 195.100.100.7 being the KVM host. So I thought: why is 101.34 up?
> It's an IP that wasn't in use for years. And in the Juniper config a whole /24 was still getting routed to it. I thought, OK, the KVM host got hax0red or something and the intruder assigned 101.34, but couldnt find anything. 101.34 wasn't reachable from any machine in the same LAN and the MAC could not be seen either. No traffic to/from it on the Switch monitoring port either. All I saw was traffic (port scans I
> think) to the /24 which ended up on the KVM host (195.100.100.7). That was an indicator that the KVM host was really also saying "I have 195.100.101.34". Or the Juniper insisted that the IP is at that MAC. I suspect the latter. I shutdown the KVM host physically and cleared the ARP cache on the Juniper, 195.100.100.7 was gone, but 195.100.101.34 was still there with the identical MAC, as before.
> I then removed the static route entry for the /24 which was pointing to
> 195.100.101.34 and only then the arp entry for 195.100.101.34 disappeared!
>
> Isn't that weird? Where did that arp entry come from and why was it saved on the Juniper for so long, and only got removed after I removed the static routing of that /24?
>
> I'm running JUNOS 8.0R2.8. :)
>
> This didn't eliminate the problem with the websites reachability, I think it is something local with my dialup connection as I see a lot of TCP retransmission errors when accessing all sites on any of the VMs hosted on that KVM host. Through an alternative dialup provider everything is fine. Other sites on other boxes in the same LAN work just fine though via the first provider. The problem comes and goes now.
> Really puzzled!
>
> Anyway, can't stop thinking about the ARP thing so I thought I would ask here! Thank you very much!
>
> Regards
> Markus
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp [at] puck https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
> The contents of this message may contain confidential and/or privileged
> subject matter. If this message has been received in error, please contact
> the sender and delete all copies. Like other forms of communication,
> e-mail communications may be vulnerable to interception by unauthorized
> parties. If you do not wish us to communicate with you by e-mail, please
> notify us at your earliest convenience. In the absence of such
> notification, your consent is assumed. Should you choose to allow us to
> communicate by e-mail, we will not take any additional security measures
> (such as encryption) unless specifically requested.
>
>

_______________________________________________
juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp [at] puck
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp


modh.apurva at gmail

Aug 15, 2012, 11:30 AM

Post #12 of 12 (496 views)
Permalink
Re: Strange ARP issue on M7i [In reply to]

it represents that the default arp pollicer is dropping the arp packets.
You dont need to apply this filter on any interface. It is applied on all
interfaces by default ... Default values of the arp policer is fine-tuned
such that it does not interrupt normal arp mechanism .. the counter in the
"show policer" should not increment in ideal scenarios ... check if there
is any machine is spoofing/flooding arp or not ...

btw, Your junos is very old .. try changing to new junos ,, there are many
improvements since then ...

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:44 PM, Markus <universe [at] truemetal> wrote:

> Hi JP and all,
>
> thanks for all the replies. "show policer" shows:
>
> admin [at] ffm01> show policer
> Policers:
> Name Packets
> __default_arp_policer__ 1140304
> __policer_tmpl__-term 0
> __policer_tmpl__-fc0 0
> __policer_tmpl__-fc0 0
> __policer_tmpl__-fc1 0
> __policer_tmpl__-fc0 0
> __policer_tmpl__-fc1 0
> __policer_tmpl__-fc2 0
> __policer_tmpl__-fc0 0
> __policer_tmpl__-fc1 0
> __policer_tmpl__-fc2 0
> __policer_tmpl__-fc3 0
>
> What does that mean?
>
> I don't seem to have anything configured related to that:
>
> admin [at] ffm01> show configuration | grep arp
> < empty >
>
> Thank you!
> Markus
>
>
> Am 14.08.2012 21:37, schrieb JP Senior:
>
>> Hi, Markus.
>> I have experienced issues in previous deployments that have involved
>> built-in ARP policers.
>>
>> Hit up 'show policer', and look for __default_arp_policer__.
>>
>> JP Senior
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: juniper-nsp-bounces [at] puck**nether.net<juniper-nsp-bounces [at] puck>[mailto:
>> juniper-nsp-bounces@**puck.nether.net<juniper-nsp-bounces [at] puck>]
>> On Behalf Of Markus
>> Sent: 14 August 2012 7:13 AM
>> To: juniper-nsp [at] puck
>> Subject: [j-nsp] Strange ARP issue on M7i
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> last night I encountered something weird (in my opinion). Not sure if
>> Juniper related but maybe someone here has seen something like this?
>>
>> I was experiencing a strange effect that several websites hosted on a
>> Linux KVM VM didn't load properly. They would load but 90% of the time hang
>> in some strange way, the browser displaying "Waiting for
>> www.sitename.com..." after all the page has loaded, or even before anything
>> of the page was displayed. A minute later it would work sometimes, but only
>> for a short period of time. After eliminating all MySQL, Apache, KVM etc.
>> as the source of the problem I logged into the M7i in front of that host
>> and saw:
>>
>> admin [at] ffm01> show arp no-resolve |grep 195.100.100.7
>> 00:25:90:38:66:c6 195.100.100.7 ge-0/0/0.0 none
>> 00:25:90:38:66:c6 195.100.101.34 ge-0/0/0.0 none
>>
>> With 195.100.100.7 being the KVM host. So I thought: why is 101.34 up?
>> It's an IP that wasn't in use for years. And in the Juniper config a
>> whole /24 was still getting routed to it. I thought, OK, the KVM host got
>> hax0red or something and the intruder assigned 101.34, but couldnt find
>> anything. 101.34 wasn't reachable from any machine in the same LAN and the
>> MAC could not be seen either. No traffic to/from it on the Switch
>> monitoring port either. All I saw was traffic (port scans I
>> think) to the /24 which ended up on the KVM host (195.100.100.7). That
>> was an indicator that the KVM host was really also saying "I have
>> 195.100.101.34". Or the Juniper insisted that the IP is at that MAC. I
>> suspect the latter. I shutdown the KVM host physically and cleared the ARP
>> cache on the Juniper, 195.100.100.7 was gone, but 195.100.101.34 was still
>> there with the identical MAC, as before.
>> I then removed the static route entry for the /24 which was pointing to
>> 195.100.101.34 and only then the arp entry for 195.100.101.34 disappeared!
>>
>> Isn't that weird? Where did that arp entry come from and why was it saved
>> on the Juniper for so long, and only got removed after I removed the static
>> routing of that /24?
>>
>> I'm running JUNOS 8.0R2.8. :)
>>
>> This didn't eliminate the problem with the websites reachability, I think
>> it is something local with my dialup connection as I see a lot of TCP
>> retransmission errors when accessing all sites on any of the VMs hosted on
>> that KVM host. Through an alternative dialup provider everything is fine.
>> Other sites on other boxes in the same LAN work just fine though via the
>> first provider. The problem comes and goes now.
>> Really puzzled!
>>
>> Anyway, can't stop thinking about the ARP thing so I thought I would ask
>> here! Thank you very much!
>>
>> Regards
>> Markus
>>
>>
>>
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