Mailing List Archive: nsp: ipv6

Questions for an ISP

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Sandro.Elmer at wuerth-itensis

May 25, 2012, 1:54 AM

Post #1 of 11 (779 views)
Permalink

Questions for an ISP

Hi Everyone

We're about to have a meeting with our ISP regarding their IPv6 Roadmap and products. Can anyone share a few questions I should ask our ISP?

So far I thought of these:

* Roadmap in general

* Are there different approaches to different services (Business SDSL, Fiber, MPLS, iBPG, private households etc)

* How will IPv6 be implemented (Native IPv6 with Dual-Stack, 6rd or whatever)

* Will we be able to register our "own" IPv6 prefix or does the ISP assign one to us (thus forcing a prefix-change when changing ISPs)

* What services are planned to run on IPv6

* Would they agree to run a proof of concept

* How long until their IPv4 addresses are depleted (we tried getting a C-range this year, no luck :))

* Will a change of hardware (modems, routers) be necessary or does their current equipment support their new IPv6 services

* Short explanation of their IPv6-implementation process works, steps/time necessary

* Costs

I also found these, but can't think of what their answers would imply:

* Who do you have peering relationships with?

* Are these peer relationships native or tunnelled?

* As a customer, can you provide BGP peering to my corporate network?

* Compare your IPv6 and IPv4 network designs?

* Will my IPv6 traffic be native throughout your entire network or will there be areas of 6to4 tunnelling to overcome current device limitations?

So if anyone can think of some more out of their experiences with ISPs picking up IPv6, I'd be thankful.

Regards,
Sandro

jeroen at unfix

May 25, 2012, 2:17 AM

Post #2 of 11 (753 views)
Permalink

Re: Questions for an ISP [In reply to]

On 2012-05-25 10:54 , Elmer Sandro wrote:
> Hi Everyone
>
>
>
> We’re about to have a meeting with our ISP regarding their IPv6 Roadmap
> and products.

You do realize it is already 2012 and that you should have done this
like, 10 years ago or so? :)

> Can anyone share a few questions I should ask our ISP?

Does it not completely depend on what your organization does and what
your requirements are? :)

You might want to describe what kind of organization you have and what
kind of connectivity you need.

I am not entirely sure this list is fully appropriate for these kind of
questions though.

You might want to first understand what your own network is used for and
what you actually want to achieve with IPv6 and why you want it and if
you might even need it at all at this point.

You should though start moving to it, though you should have done that a
long time ago already.

> So far I thought of these:
>
> · Roadmap in general

To accomplish which goals?

The roadmap for full IPv6 deployment should have been the beginning of
the year and utmost 6th of june 2012, that is in ~10 days.

> · Are there different approaches to different services (Business
> SDSL, Fiber, MPLS, iBPG, private households etc)

There will be lots of differences, does it matter if it does not affect you?

(you likely mean iBGP btw)

> · How will IPv6 be implemented (Native IPv6 with Dual-Stack, 6rd
> or whatever)

If you are a company you should demand NATIVE IPv6, anything else is
just a transition method and should be avoided as much as possible.

Only reason to use something intermediate is if it is too costly to
upgrade hardware to get native IPv6 or if a hardware-cycle is coming up
(which one could have done in the last 10 years) to upgrade it to IPv6
capable.

> · Will we be able to register our “own” IPv6 prefix or does the
> ISP assign one to us (thus forcing a prefix-change when changing ISPs)

IPv6 PI exists nowadays, but the better question is if you would really
need it.

> · What services are planned to run on IPv6

Does this not completely depend on what services you need?

> · Would they agree to run a proof of concept

Should they not have done that already in the last 10 years?

> · How long until their IPv4 addresses are depleted (we tried
> getting a C-range this year, no luck J)

You do know that CIDR was introduced in 1993, nearly 20 years ago? :)

You should have requested a /24 along with proper justification and all
should have been more than perfectly fine. IANA is out but the RIRs are
not yet and most LIRs have space to burn for several years to come if
they planned properly.

> · Will a change of hardware (modems, routers) be necessary or
> does their current equipment support their new IPv6 services

Depends on what your current equipment is, not?

> · Short explanation of their IPv6-implementation process works,
> steps/time necessary
>
> · Costs

Depends on the hardware changes and something really important: training
You as a customer should not have to cough up their part of that though.

> I also found these, but can’t think of what their answers would imply:
>
> · Who do you have peering relationships with?

Google for how ISPs work and you know.

> · Are these peer relationships native or tunnelled?

They should all be native unless the argument above of upgrading
hardware does not work.

> · As a customer, can you provide BGP peering to my corporate
> network?

Do you need it?

> · Compare your IPv6 and IPv4 network designs?
>
> · Will my IPv6 traffic be native throughout your entire network
> or will there be areas of 6to4 tunnelling to overcome current device
> limitations?

If your "ISP" lets you do 6to4 you are really doing something wrong.

> So if anyone can think of some more out of their experiences with ISPs
> picking up IPv6, I’d be thankful.

I think you are trying to ask the wrong questions...

Greets,
Jeroen

ipv6-ops at c0mplx

May 25, 2012, 2:26 AM

Post #3 of 11 (746 views)
Permalink

Re: Questions for an ISP [In reply to]

Hi!

> You do realize it is already 2012 and that you should have done this
> like, 10 years ago or so? :)

Come on 8-) Don't be a prick 8-)

> > Can anyone share a few questions I should ask our ISP?
>
> Does it not completely depend on what your organization does and what
> your requirements are? :)

Have a look at their website. It's an IT-Service and Hosting company
for the Wuerth Group (large manufacturer of tools and things).

> You might want to describe what kind of organization you have and what
> kind of connectivity you need.
>
> I am not entirely sure this list is fully appropriate for these kind of
> questions though.

The list of questions is a good start for those types of companies.

> > So far I thought of these:
> >
> > · Roadmap in general
>
> To accomplish which goals?

Well, if the ISP in question does not have some kind of roadmap,
that's an answer, right 8-) ?

> > · How will IPv6 be implemented (Native IPv6 with Dual-Stack, 6rd
> > or whatever)
>
> If you are a company you should demand NATIVE IPv6, anything else is
> just a transition method and should be avoided as much as possible.

I agree, native is necessary.

> > · Would they agree to run a proof of concept
>
> Should they not have done that already in the last 10 years?

Not necessarily. We had plenty of cases, where we offered it
to customers and they said: Come back in 5 years 8-)

> Do you need it?

Yes, they need it 8-)

--
pi [at] opsec +49 171 3101372 8 years to go !

Sandro.Elmer at wuerth-itensis

May 25, 2012, 3:15 AM

Post #4 of 11 (749 views)
Permalink

AW: Questions for an ISP [In reply to]

First off, thanks for your time!

> You do realize it is already 2012 and that you should have done this like, 10 years ago or so? :)
I do realize this but up until this very year, the answer had been "We do not support IPv6 as of yet". IPv6-deployment is a sad topic in Switzerland, as only some smaller, witty ISPs are fully supporting IPv6. Swisscom (the biggest?) is now starting to deploy 6rd(!) to private households.
We are (strategically) with another big ISP in Switzerland, and SOME services are now available in IPv6, but not the private households and not the standard business SDSL connections. Maybe by the end of this year.

So we're selling IT-services to smaller and midsized companies and have different connections in place, mostly SDSL, some fiber and bigger offices have iBGP (typo :P)

With IPv6 we want to be ready for the future (and no, we definitely won't make it on the 6th ;)). My main concern are edge networks so that we can deliver web services and the likes via dualstack.

> To accomplish which goals?
As Kurt has remarked already, up until this year the ISP DIDN'T have any roadmap at all (and doesn't mention IPv6 in the slightest on their website), so I'm eager to see it =)

>>What services are planned to run on IPv6
>Does this not completely depend on what services you need?
It sure does, but they might have something new up their sleeves. As I've said, I'm trying to put together a list of questions to probe our ISPs current IPv6 status and I hoped people here could help out. Might be that I misunderstood the purpose of this list...

>>Would they agree to run a proof of concept
>Should they not have done that already in the last 10 years?
I will tell them so :P

>>How long until their IPv4 addresses are depleted (we tried
>>getting a C-range this year, no luck J)
>You do know that CIDR was introduced in 1993, nearly 20 years ago? :)
Yep, but apparently a /24 ist mandatory for a new iBGP config on a new site.

>> Will a change of hardware (modems, routers) be necessary or
>> does their current equipment support their new IPv6 services
For their services (be it SDSL or MPLS or whatever), they install their own hardware (modems, routers) in our datacenters. Therefore I need to know wheter they will need to replace that hardware, should we start implementing IPv6 with them.

>> Compare your IPv6 and IPv4 network designs?
> Will my IPv6 traffic be native throughout your entire network
>> or will there be areas of 6to4 tunnelling to overcome current device
>> limitations?
>If your "ISP" lets you do 6to4 you are really doing something wrong.
I think it's a valid question wheter the ISPs infrastructure _fully_ supports IPv6 throughout their network or wheter there are areas they currently have to overcome by other means...

Regards,
Sandro

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Jeroen Massar [mailto:jeroen [at] unfix]
Gesendet: Freitag, 25. Mai 2012 11:18
An: Elmer Sandro
Cc: ipv6-ops [at] lists
Betreff: Re: Questions for an ISP

On 2012-05-25 10:54 , Elmer Sandro wrote:
> Hi Everyone
>
>
>
> We're about to have a meeting with our ISP regarding their IPv6
> Roadmap and products.

You do realize it is already 2012 and that you should have done this like, 10 years ago or so? :)

> Can anyone share a few questions I should ask our ISP?

Does it not completely depend on what your organization does and what your requirements are? :)

You might want to describe what kind of organization you have and what kind of connectivity you need.

I am not entirely sure this list is fully appropriate for these kind of questions though.

You might want to first understand what your own network is used for and what you actually want to achieve with IPv6 and why you want it and if you might even need it at all at this point.

You should though start moving to it, though you should have done that a long time ago already.

> So far I thought of these:
>
> · Roadmap in general

To accomplish which goals?

The roadmap for full IPv6 deployment should have been the beginning of the year and utmost 6th of june 2012, that is in ~10 days.

> · Are there different approaches to different services (Business
> SDSL, Fiber, MPLS, iBPG, private households etc)

There will be lots of differences, does it matter if it does not affect you?

(you likely mean iBGP btw)

> · How will IPv6 be implemented (Native IPv6 with Dual-Stack, 6rd
> or whatever)

If you are a company you should demand NATIVE IPv6, anything else is just a transition method and should be avoided as much as possible.

Only reason to use something intermediate is if it is too costly to upgrade hardware to get native IPv6 or if a hardware-cycle is coming up (which one could have done in the last 10 years) to upgrade it to IPv6 capable.

> · Will we be able to register our "own" IPv6 prefix or does the
> ISP assign one to us (thus forcing a prefix-change when changing ISPs)

IPv6 PI exists nowadays, but the better question is if you would really need it.

> · What services are planned to run on IPv6

Does this not completely depend on what services you need?

> · Would they agree to run a proof of concept

Should they not have done that already in the last 10 years?

> · How long until their IPv4 addresses are depleted (we tried
> getting a C-range this year, no luck J)

You do know that CIDR was introduced in 1993, nearly 20 years ago? :)

You should have requested a /24 along with proper justification and all should have been more than perfectly fine. IANA is out but the RIRs are not yet and most LIRs have space to burn for several years to come if they planned properly.

> · Will a change of hardware (modems, routers) be necessary or
> does their current equipment support their new IPv6 services

Depends on what your current equipment is, not?

> · Short explanation of their IPv6-implementation process works,
> steps/time necessary
>
> · Costs

Depends on the hardware changes and something really important: training You as a customer should not have to cough up their part of that though.

> I also found these, but can't think of what their answers would imply:
>
> · Who do you have peering relationships with?

Google for how ISPs work and you know.

> · Are these peer relationships native or tunnelled?

They should all be native unless the argument above of upgrading hardware does not work.

> · As a customer, can you provide BGP peering to my corporate
> network?

Do you need it?

> · Compare your IPv6 and IPv4 network designs?
>
> · Will my IPv6 traffic be native throughout your entire network
> or will there be areas of 6to4 tunnelling to overcome current device
> limitations?

If your "ISP" lets you do 6to4 you are really doing something wrong.

> So if anyone can think of some more out of their experiences with ISPs
> picking up IPv6, I'd be thankful.

I think you are trying to ask the wrong questions...

Greets,
Jeroen

brian.e.carpenter at gmail

May 25, 2012, 3:40 AM

Post #5 of 11 (742 views)
Permalink

Re: Questions for an ISP [In reply to]

There was a bunch of questions to ISPs in the survey that led
to RFC6036. Some of them may be out of date, of course.

Regards
Brian Carpenter

On 2012-05-25 09:54, Elmer Sandro wrote:
> Hi Everyone
>
> We're about to have a meeting with our ISP regarding their IPv6 Roadmap and products. Can anyone share a few questions I should ask our ISP?
>
> So far I thought of these:
>
> * Roadmap in general
>
> * Are there different approaches to different services (Business SDSL, Fiber, MPLS, iBPG, private households etc)
>
> * How will IPv6 be implemented (Native IPv6 with Dual-Stack, 6rd or whatever)
>
> * Will we be able to register our "own" IPv6 prefix or does the ISP assign one to us (thus forcing a prefix-change when changing ISPs)
>
> * What services are planned to run on IPv6
>
> * Would they agree to run a proof of concept
>
> * How long until their IPv4 addresses are depleted (we tried getting a C-range this year, no luck :))
>
> * Will a change of hardware (modems, routers) be necessary or does their current equipment support their new IPv6 services
>
> * Short explanation of their IPv6-implementation process works, steps/time necessary
>
> * Costs
>
>
> I also found these, but can't think of what their answers would imply:
>
> * Who do you have peering relationships with?
>
> * Are these peer relationships native or tunnelled?
>
> * As a customer, can you provide BGP peering to my corporate network?
>
> * Compare your IPv6 and IPv4 network designs?
>
> * Will my IPv6 traffic be native throughout your entire network or will there be areas of 6to4 tunnelling to overcome current device limitations?
>
>
> So if anyone can think of some more out of their experiences with ISPs picking up IPv6, I'd be thankful.
>
> Regards,
> Sandro
>
>

Guillaume.Leclanche at swisscom

May 25, 2012, 5:06 AM

Post #6 of 11 (746 views)
Permalink

RE: Questions for an ISP [In reply to]

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : ipv6-ops-bounces+guillaume.leclanche=swisscom.com [at] lists
> [mailto:ipv6-ops-
> bounces+guillaume.leclanche=swisscom.com [at] lists] De la part de
> Elmer Sandro
> Envoyé : vendredi 25 mai 2012 12:15
> À : Jeroen Massar
> Cc : ipv6-ops [at] lists
> Objet : AW: Questions for an ISP
>
> First off, thanks for your time!
>
> > You do realize it is already 2012 and that you should have done this
> > like, 10 years ago or so? :)
> I do realize this but up until this very year, the answer had been "We do not
> support IPv6 as of yet". IPv6-deployment is a sad topic in Switzerland, as only
> some smaller, witty ISPs are fully supporting IPv6. Swisscom (the biggest?) is
> now starting to deploy 6rd(!) to private households.

That's really unfair.

The 6rd solution works very well and there are no complaints. If you have a "Centro" CPE you can enable IPv6 by yourself in the customer area on our website.
Furthermore the deployment started more than one year ago and already at that time any 6rd-compliant CPE was working.

As far as I know, all our internet services now provide IPv6 if requested by the customer (except the mobile network, but we're working on it as well).

Unfortunately, as any big provider, we are dependent on the IPv6-compliance of the hardware we use (if you're big, that's a lot of different vendors and equipment ...), and since we don't develop ourselves the code for our network hardware, we are often not as fast as we would like to.

Guillaume (Network Engineer [at] Swissco)

mark at townsley

May 25, 2012, 6:03 AM

Post #7 of 11 (745 views)
Permalink

Re: Questions for an ISP [In reply to]

On May 25, 2012, at 11:17 AM, Jeroen Massar wrote:

>> · How will IPv6 be implemented (Native IPv6 with Dual-Stack, 6rd
>> or whatever)
>
> If you are a company you should demand NATIVE IPv6, anything else is
> just a transition method and should be avoided as much as possible.

Tunnels that trombone traffic around and cause latency, brokenness, or MTU issues are no fun for anyone, but shouldn't a company be more worried about the SLA itself vs. how it is encapsulated by the ISP once it leaves the company premises?

e.g., for business services, much of the dual-stack service you will find today is actually based on 6PE, which takes an IPv4 MPLS network modified with the minimum necessary to transport IPv6 packets in a way that gives the user production-quality service that the ISP can operate. For residential, 6rd isn't all that different in that it takes an IPv4 access network modified with the minimum necessary to deliver IPv6 in a way that gives the user production-quality service that the ISP can operate. 6PE uses a 4 (or perhaps 8) byte encap, setup with IPv4-based protocols, in order to route IPv6 in a mesh fashion across a network. 6rd other uses a 20-byte encap, setup via IPv4-based protocols, in order to route IPv6 in a mesh fashion across a network. Does the actual presence or make-up of the shim sitting between the IPv6 header and Data-Link matter here?

I'm the first one to try and help ISPs that deploy 6rd have all options on the table to sunset it when the time comes (draft-townsley-v6ops-6rd-sunsetting), but I see that more as a decision for the ISP to make about how to operate its network. As long as the service is on par with or better than IPv4 (including a 1500 byte MTU, comparable RTT and bandwidth, turnaround time for problems or outages, etc), why would an average everyday company or end-user care how their IPv6 packets are encapsulated?

- Mark

Sandro.Elmer at wuerth-itensis

May 25, 2012, 6:17 AM

Post #8 of 11 (749 views)
Permalink

AW: Questions for an ISP [In reply to]

Guillaume,

> That's really unfair.
didn't mean to :\

Probably should have refrained from naming. And if 6rd is working fine, all the better. I thought it was rather unhandy for the enduser, but I might have been wrong there and, if anything at all, have displayed my own incompetence here rather than having badmouthed your company.

But the last presentation about your services that I saw (and that was a week ago) had stated that 2011 had been a pilot phase and operations had only started on Q2 2012 and that IP-plus services were still under way.

Anyways, good luck on the 6th, you guys ready? :)

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Guillaume.Leclanche [at] swisscom [mailto:Guillaume.Leclanche [at] swisscom]
Gesendet: Freitag, 25. Mai 2012 14:07
An: Elmer Sandro; jeroen [at] unfix
Cc: ipv6-ops [at] lists
Betreff: RE: Questions for an ISP

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De :
> ipv6-ops-bounces+guillaume.leclanche=swisscom.com [at] lists
> [mailto:ipv6-ops-
> bounces+guillaume.leclanche=swisscom.com [at] lists] De la part
> bounces+de
> Elmer Sandro
> Envoyé : vendredi 25 mai 2012 12:15
> À : Jeroen Massar
> Cc : ipv6-ops [at] lists
> Objet : AW: Questions for an ISP
>
> First off, thanks for your time!
>
> > You do realize it is already 2012 and that you should have done this
> > like, 10 years ago or so? :)
> I do realize this but up until this very year, the answer had been "We
> do not support IPv6 as of yet". IPv6-deployment is a sad topic in
> Switzerland, as only some smaller, witty ISPs are fully supporting
> IPv6. Swisscom (the biggest?) is now starting to deploy 6rd(!) to private households.

That's really unfair.

The 6rd solution works very well and there are no complaints. If you have a "Centro" CPE you can enable IPv6 by yourself in the customer area on our website.
Furthermore the deployment started more than one year ago and already at that time any 6rd-compliant CPE was working.

As far as I know, all our internet services now provide IPv6 if requested by the customer (except the mobile network, but we're working on it as well).

Unfortunately, as any big provider, we are dependent on the IPv6-compliance of the hardware we use (if you're big, that's a lot of different vendors and equipment ...), and since we don't develop ourselves the code for our network hardware, we are often not as fast as we would like to.

Guillaume (Network Engineer [at] Swissco)

Guillaume.Leclanche at swisscom

May 25, 2012, 6:49 AM

Post #9 of 11 (742 views)
Permalink

RE: Questions for an ISP [In reply to]

> Anyways, good luck on the 6th, you guys ready? :)

That's something we'll know on the 6th :)

Guillaume

ayourtch at gmail

May 25, 2012, 7:44 AM

Post #10 of 11 (737 views)
Permalink

Re: Questions for an ISP [In reply to]

Elmer,

On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Elmer Sandro
<Sandro.Elmer [at] wuerth-itensis> wrote:
> Hi Everyone
>
>
>
> We’re about to have a meeting with our ISP regarding their IPv6 Roadmap and
> products. Can anyone share a few questions I should ask our ISP?
>

we've a doc here that has some:
http://docwiki.cisco.com/wiki/What_To_Ask_From_Your_Service_Provider_About_IPv6

since it is wiki, feel free to leave your comments/add whatever you
believe is totally missing!

--a
>
>
> So far I thought of these:
>
> ·         Roadmap in general
>
> ·         Are there different approaches to different services (Business
> SDSL, Fiber, MPLS, iBPG, private households etc)
>
> ·         How will IPv6 be implemented (Native IPv6 with Dual-Stack, 6rd or
> whatever)
>
> ·         Will we be able to register our “own” IPv6 prefix or does the ISP
> assign one to us (thus forcing a prefix-change when changing ISPs)
>
> ·         What services are planned to run on IPv6
>
> ·         Would they agree to run a proof of concept
>
> ·         How long until their IPv4 addresses are depleted (we tried getting
> a C-range this year, no luck J)
>
> ·         Will a change of hardware (modems, routers) be necessary or does
> their current equipment support their new IPv6 services
>
> ·         Short explanation of their IPv6-implementation process works,
> steps/time necessary
>
> ·         Costs
>
>
>
>
>
> I also found these, but can’t think of what their answers would imply:
>
> ·         Who do you have peering relationships with?
>
> ·         Are these peer relationships native or tunnelled?
>
> ·         As a customer, can you provide BGP peering to my corporate
> network?
>
> ·         Compare your IPv6 and IPv4 network designs?
>
> ·         Will my IPv6 traffic be native throughout your entire network or
> will there be areas of 6to4 tunnelling to overcome current device
> limitations?
>
>
>
>
>
> So if anyone can think of some more out of their experiences with ISPs
> picking up IPv6, I’d be thankful.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Sandro
>
>

mohacsi at niif

May 26, 2012, 4:49 AM

Post #11 of 11 (735 views)
Permalink

Re: Questions for an ISP [In reply to]

Hi,

Have a look at the slides from here:
http://www.6deploy.eu/workshops2/20110720_almaty_kazakhstan/131_IPv6_deployment%20consideration_v0_11_almaty.pdf

Janos Mohacsi
Head of HBONE+ project
Network Engineer, Director Network and Multimedia
NIIF/HUNGARNET, HUNGARY
Co-chair of Hungarian IPv6 Forum
Key 70EF9882: DEC2 C685 1ED4 C95A 145F 4300 6F64 7B00 70EF 9882

On Fri, 25 May 2012, Elmer Sandro wrote:

>
> Hi Everyone
>
>
>
> We?re about to have a meeting with our ISP regarding their IPv6 Roadmap and products. Can anyone share a few questions I should ask our ISP?
>
>
>
> So far I thought of these:
>
> ?         Roadmap in general
>
> ?         Are there different approaches to different services (Business SDSL, Fiber, MPLS, iBPG, private households etc)
>
> ?         How will IPv6 be implemented (Native IPv6 with Dual-Stack, 6rd or whatever)
>
> ?         Will we be able to register our ?own? IPv6 prefix or does the ISP assign one to us (thus forcing a prefix-change when changing ISPs)
>
> ?         What services are planned to run on IPv6
>
> ?         Would they agree to run a proof of concept
>
> ?         How long until their IPv4 addresses are depleted (we tried getting a C-range this year, no luck J)
>
> ?         Will a change of hardware (modems, routers) be necessary or does their current equipment support their new IPv6 services
>
> ?         Short explanation of their IPv6-implementation process works, steps/time necessary
>
> ?         Costs
>
>
>
>
>
> I also found these, but can?t think of what their answers would imply:
>
> ?         Who do you have peering relationships with?
>
> ?         Are these peer relationships native or tunnelled?
>
> ?         As a customer, can you provide BGP peering to my corporate network?
>
> ?         Compare your IPv6 and IPv4 network designs?
>
> ?         Will my IPv6 traffic be native throughout your entire network or will there be areas of 6to4 tunnelling to overcome current device limitations?
>
>
>
>
>
> So if anyone can think of some more out of their experiences with ISPs picking up IPv6, I?d be thankful.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Sandro
>
>
>
>
>

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