Mailing List Archive: nsp: ipv6

Skype & IPv6

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visser at terena

Feb 8, 2012, 1:39 AM

Post #1 of 19 (4245 views)
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Skype & IPv6

When searching for "skype ipv6" on Google, the first hit is:

http://ipv6.com/articles/voip/VOIP-IPV6.htm

That page displays basically says: VoIP is nice, IPv6 is nice, and
Skype is nice.
No word about the total FAIL with Skype and IPv6.
I'm sure there are no bad intentions, but it is a bit misleading to
mention all the cool buzzwords together while two of them (Skype and
IPv6) totally do not work together.

Trying to click the link to the author conveniently yields a "We are
currently updating this section."

--
Dick Visser
System & Networking Engineer
TERENA Secretariat
Singel 468 D, 1017 AW Amsterdam
The Netherlands

tayeb.meftah at gmail

Feb 8, 2012, 1:52 AM

Post #2 of 19 (4156 views)
Permalink

Re: Skype & IPv6 [In reply to]

MS hate ipv6 you know?

Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 8 févr. 2012 à 10:40, Dick Visser <visser [at] terena> a écrit :

> When searching for "skype ipv6" on Google, the first hit is:
>
> http://ipv6.com/articles/voip/VOIP-IPV6.htm
>
> That page displays basically says: VoIP is nice, IPv6 is nice, and
> Skype is nice.
> No word about the total FAIL with Skype and IPv6.
> I'm sure there are no bad intentions, but it is a bit misleading to
> mention all the cool buzzwords together while two of them (Skype and
> IPv6) totally do not work together.
>
> Trying to click the link to the author conveniently yields a "We are
> currently updating this section."
>
>
>
> --
> Dick Visser
> System & Networking Engineer
> TERENA Secretariat
> Singel 468 D, 1017 AW Amsterdam
> The Netherlands

sthaug at nethelp

Feb 8, 2012, 2:58 AM

Post #3 of 19 (4157 views)
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Re: Skype & IPv6 [In reply to]

> MS hate ipv6 you know?

That's not a very productive answer.

I certainly have my disagreements with Microsoft, and FreeBSD is my
normal working platform. However, I think Microsoft deserves credit
for actually doing a lot of things *right* with IPv6. It's very easy
to get a Windows XP/Vista/7 box up and running IPv6, with the caveat
that XP can't do DNS lookups over IPv6.

The fact that they acquired the Skype platform with no IPv6 capability
I assume is more of a business decision than a technical one.

I would *hope* that Microsoft is now looking very hard at how to get
Skype working over IPv6.

Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug [at] nethelp

gert at space

Feb 8, 2012, 3:44 AM

Post #4 of 19 (4153 views)
Permalink

Re: Skype & IPv6 [In reply to]

Hi,

On Wed, Feb 08, 2012 at 10:52:11AM +0100, Tayeb Meftah wrote:
> MS hate ipv6 you know?

Given the very complete IPv6 support in all recent microsoft products,
would you care to back that statement with some more specifics...?

Gert Doering
-- NetMaster
--
have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?

SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann
D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen)
Tel: +49 (89) 32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279

truman at suspicious

Feb 9, 2012, 5:55 AM

Post #5 of 19 (4125 views)
Permalink

Re: Skype & IPv6 [In reply to]

Has anyone here used Skype through NAT64? Does it work?

Cheers,
Truman

On 8 Feb 2012, at 6:44 AM, Gert Doering wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Feb 08, 2012 at 10:52:11AM +0100, Tayeb Meftah wrote:
>> MS hate ipv6 you know?
>
> Given the very complete IPv6 support in all recent microsoft products,
> would you care to back that statement with some more specifics...?
>
> Gert Doering
> -- NetMaster
> --
> have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?
>
> SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard
> Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann
> D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen)
> Tel: +49 (89) 32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
>

marc.blanchet at viagenie

Feb 9, 2012, 6:07 AM

Post #6 of 19 (4133 views)
Permalink

Re: Skype & IPv6 [In reply to]

Le 2012-02-09 Ã 08:55, Truman Boyes <truman [at] suspicious> a Ã©crit :

> Has anyone here used Skype through NAT64?

Yes

> Does it work?

No

Marc.

>
> Cheers,
> Truman
>
>
> On 8 Feb 2012, at 6:44 AM, Gert Doering wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 08, 2012 at 10:52:11AM +0100, Tayeb Meftah wrote:
>>> MS hate ipv6 you know?
>>
>> Given the very complete IPv6 support in all recent microsoft products,
>> would you care to back that statement with some more specifics...?
>>
>> Gert Doering
>> -- NetMaster
>> --
>> have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?
>>
>> SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard
>> Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann
>> D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen)
>> Tel: +49 (89) 32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
>>

cb.list6 at gmail

Feb 9, 2012, 6:12 AM

Post #7 of 19 (4149 views)
Permalink

Re: Skype & IPv6 [In reply to]

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 6:07 AM, Marc Blanchet <marc.blanchet [at] viagenie> wrote:
>
> Le 2012-02-09 à 08:55, Truman Boyes <truman [at] suspicious> a écrit :
>
>> Has anyone here used Skype through NAT64?
>
> Yes
>
>> Does it work?
>
> No
>

But, Skype does work with 464XLAT

http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/v6ops/current/msg11906.html

Skype, like a small number of other applications, uses IPv4 referrals
in its signaling.

Hopefully more network operators can provide support on the v6ops
mailing list. 15% of applications being broken is an problem for
IPv6-only deployments.

CB

> Marc.
>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Truman
>>
>>
>> On 8 Feb 2012, at 6:44 AM, Gert Doering wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 08, 2012 at 10:52:11AM +0100, Tayeb Meftah wrote:
>>>> MS hate ipv6 you know?
>>>
>>> Given the very complete IPv6 support in all recent microsoft products,
>>> would you care to back that statement with some more specifics...?
>>>
>>> Gert Doering
>>> -- NetMaster
>>> --
>>> have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?
>>>
>>> SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard
>>> Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann
>>> D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen)
>>> Tel: +49 (89) 32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
>>>

jima at beer

Feb 9, 2012, 7:13 AM

Post #8 of 19 (4130 views)
Permalink

Re: Skype & IPv6 [In reply to]

On Wed, 2012-02-08, Gert Doering wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Feb 08, 2012 at 10:52:11AM +0100, Tayeb Meftah wrote:
>> MS hate ipv6 you know?
>
> Given the very complete IPv6 support in all recent microsoft products,
> would you care to back that statement with some more specifics...?

While I uncharacteristically disagree with Tayeb's claim, I also have to
dispute yours. I'd agree with "mostly complete IPv6 support in most
recent Microsoft products," however.

There are a few product lines of theirs where IPv6 support is either
missing or broken. On the plus side, I can happily confess that this is
more the exception than the rule -- I'd say they're ahead of a few
more-open platforms.

Jima

visser at terena

Feb 9, 2012, 8:03 AM

Post #9 of 19 (4131 views)
Permalink

Re: Skype & IPv6 [In reply to]

On 9 February 2012 15:12, Cameron Byrne <cb.list6 [at] gmail> wrote:

> Skype, like a small number of other applications, uses IPv4 referrals
> in its signaling.

>From a small office point of view, Skype is the only reason why I
can't turn our network into IPv6-only using NAT64/DNS64.
It would be a good idea to make a list of such blocking applications -
does anyone know if such a "Hall of Shame" already exists?

--
Dick Visser
System & Networking Engineer
TERENA Secretariat
Singel 468 D, 1017 AW Amsterdam
The Netherlands

jima at beer

Feb 9, 2012, 10:08 AM

Post #10 of 19 (4132 views)
Permalink

Re: Skype & IPv6 [In reply to]

On Thu, 2012-02-09, Dick Vassar wrote:
> On 9 February 2012 15:12, Cameron Byrne <cb.list6 [at] gmail> wrote:
>
>> Skype, like a small number of other applications, uses IPv4 referrals
>> in its signaling.
>
> From a small office point of view, Skype is the only reason why I
> can't turn our network into IPv6-only using NAT64/DNS64.
> It would be a good idea to make a list of such blocking applications -
> does anyone know if such a "Hall of Shame" already exists?

Cameron maintains an Android-specific one as part of the TMO deployment:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnVbRg3DotzFdGVwZWlWeG5wXzVMcG5qczZEZloxWGc

I think he's also the one who started something regarding ipv4 literals,
but I don't think it's gone anywhere yet:
http://groups.google.com/group/ipv4literals

If anyone is doing a general application one, I'd love to hear about it
so I can contribute.

Jima

visser at terena

Feb 15, 2012, 3:28 AM

Post #11 of 19 (4036 views)
Permalink

Re: Skype & IPv6 [In reply to]

If you want to add some momentum:

http://www.change.org/petitions/skype-add-ipv6-support-to-skype

DIck

On 9 February 2012 17:03, Dick Visser <visser [at] terena> wrote:
> On 9 February 2012 15:12, Cameron Byrne <cb.list6 [at] gmail> wrote:
>
>> Skype, like a small number of other applications, uses IPv4 referrals
>> in its signaling.
>
> From a small office point of view, Skype is the only reason why I
> can't turn our network into IPv6-only using NAT64/DNS64.
> It would be a good idea to make a list of such blocking applications -
> does anyone know if such a "Hall of Shame" already exists?
>
>
>
>
> --
> Dick Visser
> System & Networking Engineer
> TERENA Secretariat
> Singel 468 D, 1017 AW Amsterdam
> The Netherlands

--
Dick Visser
System & Networking Engineer
TERENA Secretariat
Singel 468 D, 1017 AW Amsterdam
The Netherlands

ignatios at cs

Feb 15, 2012, 5:50 AM

Post #12 of 19 (4032 views)
Permalink

Re: Skype & IPv6 [In reply to]

On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 12:28:36PM +0100, Dick Visser wrote:
> If you want to add some momentum:
>
> http://www.change.org/petitions/skype-add-ipv6-support-to-skype

I wonder...

The Big Feature of Skype is that it just works out of virtually
any firewall / NAT out there, and scales (because of P2P network
technology) better than pure central-server SIP-VOIP providers.

But with a transparent (e.g. IPv6) network, I can let my
standard-protocol SIP phone( application)s talk to each other directly,
so why do I want Skype?

-is

lambert at psc

Feb 15, 2012, 5:53 AM

Post #13 of 19 (4034 views)
Permalink

Re: Skype & IPv6 [In reply to]

On 15 Feb 2012, at 08:50, Ignatios Souvatzis wrote:

> But with a transparent (e.g. IPv6) network, I can let my
> standard-protocol SIP phone( application)s talk to each other directly,
> so why do I want Skype?

What if the other end is a PSTN phone?

Michael

jens.weibler at h-da

Feb 15, 2012, 5:54 AM

Post #14 of 19 (4041 views)
Permalink

Re: Skype & IPv6 [In reply to]

On 15.02.2012 14:50, Ignatios Souvatzis wrote:
> I wonder...
>
> The Big Feature of Skype is that it just works out of virtually
> any firewall / NAT out there, and scales (because of P2P network
> technology) better than pure central-server SIP-VOIP providers.
>
> But with a transparent (e.g. IPv6) network, I can let my
> standard-protocol SIP phone( application)s talk to each other directly,
> so why do I want Skype?

the possibility of direct end to end communication doesn't necessarily
means that it is allowed.
Many firewalls will still filter some ports. Programs will migrate from
NAT punching to firewall punching ;)

--
Jens Weibler
IT-Services

Hochschule Darmstadt
www.h-da.de
University of Applied Sciences

Fachbereich Informatik
www.fbi.h-da.de
Schöfferstr. 8b
D-64295 Darmstadt
Tel +49 6151 16-8425
Fax +49 6151 16-8935
jens.weibler [at] h-da

Attachments:

smime.p7s (4.57 KB)

visser at terena

Feb 15, 2012, 6:14 AM

Post #15 of 19 (4056 views)
Permalink

Re: Skype & IPv6 [In reply to]

It's a kind of an ironic story, NAT was a workaround for IPv4 address shortage.
The whole world uses that now, but it turned out to have all kinds of
negative side-effects for certain applications that need e2e.
Skype created a workaround for that (one that really works well), so
the whole world now uses their software.
Unfortunately their 'workaround for a workaround' is so tied into the
first workaround (NAT) that it doesn't work with real solution (IPv6).

On 15 February 2012 14:54, Jens Weibler <jens.weibler [at] h-da> wrote:
> On 15.02.2012 14:50, Ignatios Souvatzis wrote:
>>
>> I wonder...
>>
>> The Big Feature of Skype is that it just works out of virtually
>> any firewall / NAT out there, and scales (because of P2P network
>> technology) better than pure central-server SIP-VOIP providers.
>>
>> But with a transparent (e.g. IPv6) network, I can let my
>> standard-protocol SIP phone( application)s talk to each other directly,
>> so why do I want Skype?
>
>
> the possibility of direct end to end communication doesn't necessarily means
> that it is allowed.
> Many firewalls will still filter some ports. Programs will migrate from NAT
> punching to firewall punching ;)
>
> --
> Jens Weibler
> IT-Services
>
> Hochschule Darmstadt
> www.h-da.de
> University of Applied Sciences
>
> Fachbereich Informatik
> www.fbi.h-da.de
> SchÃ¶fferstr. 8b
> D-64295 Darmstadt
> Tel +49 6151 16-8425
> Fax +49 6151 16-8935
> jens.weibler [at] h-da
>
>

--
Dick Visser
System & Networking Engineer
TERENA Secretariat
Singel 468 D, 1017 AW Amsterdam
The Netherlands

mark at townsley

Feb 15, 2012, 6:30 AM

Post #16 of 19 (4027 views)
Permalink

Re: Skype & IPv6 [In reply to]

On Feb 15, 2012, at 14:50, Ignatios Souvatzis <ignatios [at] cs> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 12:28:36PM +0100, Dick Visser wrote:
>> If you want to add some momentum:
>>
>> http://www.change.org/petitions/skype-add-ipv6-support-to-skype
>
> I wonder...
>
> The Big Feature of Skype is that it just works out of virtually
> any firewall / NAT out there, and scales (because of P2P network
> technology) better than pure central-server SIP-VOIP providers.
>
> But with a transparent (e.g. IPv6) network, I can let my
> standard-protocol SIP phone( application)s talk to each other directly,
> so why do I want Skype?

To talk to all the people not on ipv6.

- Mark

>
> -is

cb.list6 at gmail

Feb 15, 2012, 6:38 AM

Post #17 of 19 (4040 views)
Permalink

Re: Skype & IPv6 [In reply to]

On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 3:28 AM, Dick Visser <visser [at] terena> wrote:
> If you want to add some momentum:
>
> http://www.change.org/petitions/skype-add-ipv6-support-to-skype
>

You may have better luck discussing this on Skype's own forum

http://community.skype.com/t5/Android/Skype-not-working-on-T-Mobile-USA-IPv6-with-UMTS-unlocked-Galaxy/m-p/380685/highlight/true#M7845

CB

>
> DIck
>
> On 9 February 2012 17:03, Dick Visser <visser [at] terena> wrote:
>> On 9 February 2012 15:12, Cameron Byrne <cb.list6 [at] gmail> wrote:
>>
>>> Skype, like a small number of other applications, uses IPv4 referrals
>>> in its signaling.
>>
>> From a small office point of view, Skype is the only reason why I
>> can't turn our network into IPv6-only using NAT64/DNS64.
>> It would be a good idea to make a list of such blocking applications -
>> does anyone know if such a "Hall of Shame" already exists?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dick Visser
>> System & Networking Engineer
>> TERENA Secretariat
>> Singel 468 D, 1017 AW Amsterdam
>> The Netherlands
>
>
>
> --
> Dick Visser
> System & Networking Engineer
> TERENA Secretariat
> Singel 468 D, 1017 AW Amsterdam
> The Netherlands

visser at terena

Feb 16, 2012, 2:40 AM

Post #18 of 19 (4008 views)
Permalink

Re: Skype & IPv6 [In reply to]

On 15 February 2012 15:38, Cameron Byrne <cb.list6 [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 3:28 AM, Dick Visser <visser [at] terena> wrote:
>> If you want to add some momentum:
>>
>> http://www.change.org/petitions/skype-add-ipv6-support-to-skype
>>
>
> You may have better luck discussing this on Skype's own forum
>
> http://community.skype.com/t5/Android/Skype-not-working-on-T-Mobile-USA-IPv6-with-UMTS-unlocked-Galaxy/m-p/380685/highlight/true#M7845

I tried that, but an already existing voting page there mysteriously
disappeared.
Google still has a link to it in its caches, see attached.

I just came across this ironically page:

http://www.disruptivetelephony.com/2011/09/skype-now-using-skypesupport-on-twitter.html

but which probably wasn't intended as such ;-)

Dick

Attachments:

skype_ipv6_poll_google.PNG (169 KB)

brandon at bogons

Feb 16, 2012, 3:44 AM

Post #19 of 19 (4003 views)
Permalink

Re: Skype & IPv6 [In reply to]

> The Big Feature of Skype is that it just works out of virtually
> any firewall / NAT out there

Used to, stopped working with http proxy firewalls long
ago (at least OSX version)

brandon

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