Mailing List Archive: nsp: ipv6

TSP solutions

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Arjan at voiceworks

Sep 16, 2011, 1:43 AM

Post #1 of 10 (1465 views)
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TSP solutions

Hi,

Is there anyone familiar with a TSP (rfc5572) compatible 6in4 software, preferably opensource? The only box I'm currently aware of that supports is the GogoServer: http://gogoware.gogo6.com/4105/description.asp?product_id=178

--
Met vriendelijke groet,

Arjan van der Oest
Senior Network Engineer / Security Officer

Voiceworks BV - Editiestraat 29 - 1321 NG Almere

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jeroen at unfix

Sep 16, 2011, 1:53 AM

Post #2 of 10 (1427 views)
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Re: TSP solutions [In reply to]

On 2011-09-16 10:43 , Arjan Van Der Oest wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Is there anyone familiar with a TSP (rfc5572) compatible 6in4
> software

Please don't call it '6in4', it TSP, no other name. People are confused
all around the world already way too much with the variety of namings
that are there.

Fortunately there is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6_transition_mechanisms

which is afaik mostly accurate. Thus, please, when mentioning something
use the right wording and don't bring more confusion ;)

(It is already bad enough that vendors mess it up in their UIs...)

> preferably opensource? The only box I'm currently aware of
> that supports is the GogoServer:
> http://gogoware.gogo6.com/4105/description.asp?product_id=178

The tunnel broker of CITC (http://www.ipv6.org.sa/tunnel_broker
) is TSP based and according to:

http://www.ipv6.org.sa/sites/default/files/CITC%20IPv6%20Tunnel%20Broker%20-%20CITC.pdf

In there they state that they might open source it.

Nevertheless, as usual, the better question might be to ask what you are
looking for, thus what features, what userbase etc.

Greets,
Jeroen

Arjan at voiceworks

Sep 16, 2011, 2:39 AM

Post #3 of 10 (1421 views)
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Re: TSP solutions [In reply to]

On 16Sep, 2011, at 10:53 , Jeroen Massar wrote:
> Nevertheless, as usual, the better question might be to ask what you are
> looking for, thus what features, what userbase etc.

I'm looking for a solution to build TSP tunnels from TSPc enabled CPE's such as Draytek 2130 that do not (yet) support static 6in4 tunnels (at least not from the GUI, it seems there is an option to build it directly from the shell, but I need to test it).

--
Met vriendelijke groet,

Arjan van der Oest
Senior Network Engineer / Security Officer

Voiceworks BV - Editiestraat 29 - 1321 NG Almere

Attachments:

smime.p7s (4.69 KB)

jeroen at unfix

Sep 16, 2011, 3:11 AM

Post #4 of 10 (1423 views)
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Re: TSP solutions [In reply to]

On 2011-09-16 11:39 , Arjan Van Der Oest wrote:
> On 16Sep, 2011, at 10:53 , Jeroen Massar wrote:
>> Nevertheless, as usual, the better question might be to ask what
>> you are looking for, thus what features, what userbase etc.
>
> I'm looking for a solution to build TSP tunnels from TSPc enabled
> CPE's such as Draytek 2130 that do not (yet) support static 6in4
> tunnels (at least not from the GUI, it seems there is an option to
> build it directly from the shell, but I need to test it).

While that answers that part of the question (that you have selected a
draytek and thus need TSP), it does not answer the problem that you are
trying to solve ;)

I assume that you have a userbase on IPv4 who cannot get native IPv6.

Are you in that case the direct IPv4 ISP of those users, then there are
two questions:
a) why no native IPv6? (cost, hardware, etc?)
b) why don't use 6rd?

Greets,
Jeroen

Arjan at voiceworks

Sep 16, 2011, 4:08 AM

Post #5 of 10 (1425 views)
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Re: TSP solutions [In reply to]

Jeroen,

On 16Sep, 2011, at 12:11 , Jeroen Massar wrote:

> While that answers that part of the question (that you have selected a
> draytek and thus need TSP), it does not answer the problem that you are
> trying to solve ;)

The problem I'm trying to solve is obvious : I want to utilize TSP for providing IPv6 connectivity. You mean it's not clear to you why I'm looking at TSP rather than other mechanism's :-)

The answer is, current installed base, combined with:

> I assume that you have a userbase on IPv4 who cannot get native IPv6.

check

> Are you in that case the direct IPv4 ISP of those users

check

> then there are two questions:
> a) why no native IPv6? (cost, hardware, etc?)

For the moment: telco-, equipment- and businesscase limitations. All of these will eventually be solved but I don't want to wait with providing IPv6 connectivity until these issues are solved.

> b) why don't use 6rd?

Because Draytek does not support it.

--
Met vriendelijke groet,

Arjan van der Oest
Senior Network Engineer / Security Officer

Voiceworks BV - Editiestraat 29 - 1321 NG Almere

Attachments:

smime.p7s (4.69 KB)

jeroen at unfix

Sep 16, 2011, 4:20 AM

Post #6 of 10 (1422 views)
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Re: TSP solutions [In reply to]

On 2011-09-16 13:08 , Arjan Van Der Oest wrote:
> Jeroen,
>
> On 16Sep, 2011, at 12:11 , Jeroen Massar wrote:
>
>> While that answers that part of the question (that you have
>> selected a draytek and thus need TSP), it does not answer the
>> problem that you are trying to solve ;)
>
> The problem I'm trying to solve is obvious : I want to utilize TSP
> for providing IPv6 connectivity. You mean it's not clear to you why
> I'm looking at TSP rather than other mechanism's :-)

That is indeed the point. As now you are starting your question from the
middle of the equation while there are other options that might fit better.

>> b) why don't use 6rd?
>
> Because Draytek does not support it.

And to circle back to the 'current installed base', I assume that you
currently have Draytek already deployed and thus it would 'merely' be a
firmware upgrade away, because if that is the case I am very sure that
you can make Draytek listen to that, having seen that they support both
TSP and TIC/AYIYA/heartbeat and they are running off a Linux kernel, for
them to add 6rd would be minimal effort.

If you want I can pass Draytek contacts who should be able to get you to
the right people for getting that feature in.

And if you have no Drayteks deployed yet you of course have other options ;)

IMHO it is always best to first list the 'current haves' and then the
'what we wants' and go from there, thus your statement of effectively "I
need a TSP server" does not make clear to me if you tried to look at the
alternatives, and that is something that might give insight to other
folks on why you did or did not select that.

The "IPv6 Transition Mechanism / Tunneling Comparison":
http://www.sixxs.net/faq/connectivity/?faq=comparison
comes to mind too. TSP is thus primarily useful for when you have
endusers who are behind a NAT and have changing addresses. But, as you
want to terminate the tunnel on on the CPE (the draytek) I don't see why
you would need any tech that actually work behind the NAT, and as you
are the ISP, IMHO, 6rd is then the best fit (unless your deployed base
does not support it, which would mean quickly kicking the vendor to
maybe add support. That said in the case of various Drayteks the code is
open http://code.google.com/p/vigor2130/ thus in the extreme case you
could even opt to add it yourself...

Greets,
Jeroen

Arjan at voiceworks

Sep 16, 2011, 4:50 AM

Post #7 of 10 (1426 views)
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Re: TSP solutions [In reply to]

On 16Sep, 2011, at 13:20 , Jeroen Massar wrote:

> That is indeed the point. As now you are starting your question from the
> middle of the equation while there are other options that might fit better.

Well, I'm used to asking non-ambigious questions that can be answered with non-ambigious answers. The how and why is not really relevant to my question: does anyone know a TSP solution? But ymmv :-)

>> Because Draytek does not support it.
>
> And to circle back to the 'current installed base', I assume that you
> currently have Draytek already deployed

That deduction seems only logical, yes.

> and thus it would 'merely' be a
> firmware upgrade away, because if that is the case I am very sure that
> you can make Draytek listen to that, having seen that they support both
> TSP and TIC/AYIYA/heartbeat and they are running off a Linux kernel, for
> them to add 6rd would be minimal effort.

Sure, but the truth is that *currently*, as in now Friday september the 16th it is not supported. Any development, regression testing and field deployment is going to take weeks if not months.

> If you want I can pass Draytek contacts who should be able to get you to
> the right people for getting that feature in.

I have the same contacts at Xpertdata, thanks for the offer ;-)

> IMHO it is always best to first list the 'current haves' and then the
> 'what we wants' and go from there, thus your statement of effectively "I
> need a TSP server" does not make clear to me if you tried to look at the
> alternatives, and that is something that might give insight to other
> folks on why you did or did not select that.

Although I can understand your curiosity and appreciate your willingness to assist me, I respectfully disagree.

When I e-mail a TAC with the question "what box supports VRRPv3" I would be surprised when they ask me "what are you trying to accomplish" ;-)

> The "IPv6 Transition Mechanism / Tunneling Comparison":
> http://www.sixxs.net/faq/connectivity/?faq=comparison
> comes to mind too. TSP is thus primarily useful for when you have
> endusers who are behind a NAT and have changing addresses.

Agree, but since 6rd and 6in4 are currently not supported: hence my question.

> which would mean quickly kicking the vendor to maybe add support.

Consider it already done.

--
Met vriendelijke groet,

Arjan van der Oest
Senior Network Engineer / Security Officer

Voiceworks BV - Editiestraat 29 - 1321 NG Almere

Attachments:

smime.p7s (4.69 KB)

jeroen at unfix

Sep 16, 2011, 5:00 AM

Post #8 of 10 (1427 views)
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Re: TSP solutions [In reply to]

On 2011-09-16 13:50 , Arjan Van Der Oest wrote:
> On 16Sep, 2011, at 13:20 , Jeroen Massar wrote:
>
>> That is indeed the point. As now you are starting your question
>> from the middle of the equation while there are other options that
>> might fit better.
>
> Well, I'm used to asking non-ambigious questions that can be answered
> with non-ambigious answers. The how and why is not really relevant to
> my question: does anyone know a TSP solution? But ymmv :-)

You got the answer to that question, but it is more insightful to ask
questions back.

>> If you want I can pass Draytek contacts who should be able to get
>> you to the right people for getting that feature in.
>
> I have the same contacts at Xpertdata, thanks for the offer ;-)

Hmm, I was more thinking of the people who actually did the code for
adding TSP and AICCU to the firmware, but heck, if you want to go
through the importer, enjoy ;)

[..]
> When I e-mail a TAC with the question "what box supports VRRPv3" I
> would be surprised when they ask me "what are you trying to
> accomplish" ;-)

I actually hope they answer your first question and then are smart
enough to ask that latter question as they might have some insight that
you might not have for the basis of your selection of protocol.

>> The "IPv6 Transition Mechanism / Tunneling Comparison":
>> http://www.sixxs.net/faq/connectivity/?faq=comparison comes to mind
>> too. TSP is thus primarily useful for when you have endusers who
>> are behind a NAT and have changing addresses.
>
> Agree, but since 6rd and 6in4 are currently not supported: hence my
> question.

6in4 definitely is supported. As stated in the rest of my message they
are running on a Linux kernel and they also support the full set of
AICCU, thus static 6in4, heartbeated 6in4 and of course AYIYA which uses
tun/tap.

As it Linux, after 2.6.33 and with the right iproute tool set you
already have support for it. Field-tested already also by all the people
with Linux kernels who tried 6rd, which is likely 90% of the people who
did something with 6rd.

>> which would mean quickly kicking the vendor to maybe add support.
>
> Consider it already done.

Through your distributor, well yes, then it will take time unless you
are a rather extremely large customer ;)

Greets,
Jeroen

Arjan at voiceworks

Sep 16, 2011, 5:10 AM

Post #9 of 10 (1422 views)
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Re: TSP solutions [In reply to]

On 16Sep, 2011, at 14:00 , Jeroen Massar wrote:

>> I have the same contacts at Xpertdata, thanks for the offer ;-)
>
> Hmm, I was more thinking of the people who actually did the code for
> adding TSP and AICCU to the firmware, but heck, if you want to go
> through the importer, enjoy ;)

I assumed you were referring to the importer, if you have contacts directly with Draytek that might be even more useful.

>> Agree, but since 6rd and 6in4 are currently not supported: hence my
>> question.
>
> 6in4 definitely is supported. As stated in the rest of my message they
> are running on a Linux kernel and they also support the full set of
> AICCU, thus static 6in4, heartbeated 6in4 and of course AYIYA which uses
> tun/tap.

As I said in my earlier email it seems that 6in4 is supported via the CLI since firmware 1.4.0, but not via the GUI. And since (to complete the picture) many of the CPE's are not managed by me/us and GUI support is sort of a requirement.

> Through your distributor, well yes, then it will take time unless you
> are a rather extremely large customer ;)

We have decent contacts with the distributor and have reported many issues especially related to VoIP, but a direct contact with Draytek will never hurt.

--
Met vriendelijke groet,

Arjan van der Oest
Senior Network Engineer / Security Officer

Voiceworks BV - Editiestraat 29 - 1321 NG Almere

Attachments:

smime.p7s (4.69 KB)

jima at beer

Sep 16, 2011, 10:26 AM

Post #10 of 10 (1421 views)
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Re: TSP solutions [In reply to]

> Is there anyone familiar with a TSP (rfc5572) compatible 6in4 software,
> preferably opensource? The only box I'm currently aware of that supports
> is the GogoServer:
> http://gogoware.gogo6.com/4105/description.asp?product_id=178

Arriving so late to the party, I'm genuinely astonished that no one has
mentioned nabla: http://code.google.com/p/nabla/

I don't know what its current state of development is, or if it even
works, but it might be a starting point for you.

Jima

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