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3rd party optics

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plunin at senetsy

Apr 14, 2011, 10:41 AM

Post #1 of 16 (1224 views)
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3rd party optics

Hi all,

Can anyone confirm/disprove, that any Brocade product is know to have
'religious' restriction for 3rd party optics. Both SPF and XFP/SPF+.

I've been told it (non-native transceivers) is accepted, but there are
some rumors…

--
Regards,
Pavel
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remco at signet

Apr 14, 2011, 10:49 AM

Post #2 of 16 (1194 views)
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Re: 3rd party optics [In reply to]

On 14 apr 2011, at 19:41, Pavel Lunin wrote:
> Can anyone confirm/disprove, that any Brocade product is know to have 'religious' restriction for 3rd party optics. Both SPF and XFP/SPF+.
>
> I've been told it (non-native transceivers) is accepted, but there are some rumors…

I never had any problems of whatsoever with third-party optics on FESX, FGS, MLX or XMR's. The only issue was a 1000T SFP not working. A software upgrade fixed that.

Regards,

Remco Bressers
Signet B.V.

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aaron at wholesaleinternet

Apr 14, 2011, 10:54 AM

Post #3 of 16 (1197 views)
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Re: 3rd party optics [In reply to]

I can confirm issues with cisco branded optics. No issues with extreme branded.

Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless

-----Original message-----
From: Pavel Lunin <plunin [at] senetsy>
To: foundry-nsp [at] puck
Sent: Thu, Apr 14, 2011 17:41:30 GMT+00:00
Subject: [f-nsp] 3rd party optics

Hi all,

Can anyone confirm/disprove, that any Brocade product is know to have 'religious' restriction for 3rd party optics. Both SPF and XFP/SPF+.

I've been told it (non-native transceivers) is accepted, but there are some rumorsā€¦

--
Regards,
Pavel
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niels=foundry-nsp at bakker

Apr 14, 2011, 11:29 AM

Post #4 of 16 (1205 views)
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Re: 3rd party optics [In reply to]

* remco [at] signet (Remco Bressers) [Thu 14 Apr 2011, 19:53 CEST]:
>On 14 apr 2011, at 19:41, Pavel Lunin wrote:
>>Can anyone confirm/disprove, that any Brocade product is know to
>>have 'religious' restriction for 3rd party optics. Both SPF and
>>XFP/SPF+.
>
>I never had any problems of whatsoever with third-party optics on
>FESX, FGS, MLX or XMR's. The only issue was a 1000T SFP not working.
>A software upgrade fixed that.

You must not be using DOM, then.
---
fesx#sho ver | i HW:
HW: Stackable FESX424+2XG
fesx(config-if-e10000-25)#optical-monitor
Enable optical monitoring and set alarm/warn interval to default(3 minutes)
fesx(config-if-e10000-25)#
---
Apr 14 20:01:15:O:SYSTEM: Optic is not Foundry qualified (port 25).
---

Ironically, the optic was purchased from Foundry, carries a Foundry
logo and Foundry warranty, arrived in a Foundry box etc. DOM support
may have come in a later software release than this particular switch
is running at the moment, though - they've been for a while reporting
optics brands that they used to ship as "Foundry Networks" instead.

At the risk of beating a dead horse: support for optics not sold by
the vendor is vital to any serious business. Being locked in means
you can toss your investment when your network changes even slightly.

-- Niels.

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nick at foobar

Apr 14, 2011, 12:48 PM

Post #5 of 16 (1192 views)
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Re: 3rd party optics [In reply to]

On 14/04/2011 19:29, Niels Bakker wrote:
> At the risk of beating a dead horse: support for optics not sold by the
> vendor is vital to any serious business. Being locked in means you can
> toss your investment when your network changes even slightly.

Honestly, I've all but given up on this. If vendors are going to force me
to lie to the switches about SFF8472 eeproms in order to get DOM support,
then I will lie and lie fluently. I will tell the switches anything they
want to hear and will feel no guilt.

The next item on my budget is a flexbox (http://www.flexoptix.net/). Until
then, my suppliers can provide pre-programmed transceivers in any flavour I
want.

For the record, if there's anyone from Brocade listening, transceiver
feature-hobbling is a pointless waste of time which directly creates
customer dissatisfaction. Please stop doing it.

Nick

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plunin at senetsy

Apr 14, 2011, 2:01 PM

Post #6 of 16 (1194 views)
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Re: 3rd party optics [In reply to]

Folks,

Thanks. I think it's enough evidence of no religion is involved in Brocades
approach to transceivers. I am sorry about a bit of holy-war kindling.

My two cents, though :)

Of course it's a little too much pathos in that 'risk of beating a dead
horse' talk.

1. If your network uses up to ~few tens of transceivers, especially of
different (and not that expensive) types and you buy them in order of few
items a year, it's unlikely you want to invest in your own testing and
calculating the fail rate of the modules from a source you prefer. In this
case I also find it a good idea to pay some extra to your gear vendor in
order to shift all this to its shoulders. This is easier and even cheaper
(if you count your real expense, not just the MSRP price of the optics).

2. But if you need hundreds or thousands of them [each year], especially if
you need some SPF types not shipped by your gear vendor, you can (and will)
try to use as less as possible types of optics and do the testing and fail
risk management yourself in order to decrease costs. If only you don't want
to be pissed off the market. And of course you want to chose the source from
several ones (and use all the benefits of the competition). No religion,
just business.

tchristell at springnet

Apr 14, 2011, 2:21 PM

Post #7 of 16 (1195 views)
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Re: 3rd party optics [In reply to]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Great response. We used Champion optics because I wanted to bypass the active electronics on our DWDM network and drive the filter card directly from an SFP. Foundry (at that time) didnt offer ITU grid DWDM SFPs so got them from a third party and theyve been working great for years.

That being said, we are going to single fiber SFPs so we can build an overlay network for our upgrade and we will also be changing out our dual fiber transition cards for customer distribution to single fiber and NIDs. Purchased single fiber Brocade optics for the GigE distribution lobes and a third party single fiber optic for each single fiber customer drop. Third party optics are ¼ the price and only affecting one customer. Any troubleshooting distribution lobes with TAC is all Brocade and 10 Gig backbone XFPs (DWDM ITU Grid) is also all Brocade.

Todd Christell

Manager Network Architecture and Support

www.springnet.net <http://www.springnet.net>

417.831.8688

Key fingerprint = 4F26 A0B4 5AAD 7FCA 48DD 7F40 A57E 9235 5202 D508

From: foundry-nsp-bounces [at] puck [mailto:foundry-nsp-bounces [at] puck] On Behalf Of Pavel Lunin
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 4:02 PM
To: foundry-nsp [at] puck
Subject: Re: [f-nsp] 3rd party optics

Folks,

Thanks. I think it's enough evidence of no religion is involved in Brocades approach to transceivers. I am sorry about a bit of holy-war kindling.

My two cents, though :)

Of course it's a little too much pathos in that 'risk of beating a dead horse' talk.

1. If your network uses up to ~few tens of transceivers, especially of different (and not that expensive) types and you buy them in order of few items a year, it's unlikely you want to invest in your own testing and calculating the fail rate of the modules from a source you prefer. In this case I also find it a good idea to pay some extra to your gear vendor in order to shift all this to its shoulders. This is easier and even cheaper (if you count your real expense, not just the MSRP price of the optics).

2. But if you need hundreds or thousands of them [each year], especially if you need some SPF types not shipped by your gear vendor, you can (and will) try to use as less as possible types of optics and do the testing and fail risk management yourself in order to decrease costs. If only you don't want to be pissed off the market. And of course you want to chose the source from several ones (and use all the benefits of the competition). No religion, just business.

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jeroen at easyhosting

Apr 15, 2011, 12:28 AM

Post #8 of 16 (1181 views)
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Re: 3rd party optics [In reply to]

It may give an unsupported notification in the log, but they work just
fine. I have a mix of Foundry, Smartoptics and Finisar SFP's in our
XMR's and CER's

On 4/14/11 7:41 PM, Pavel Lunin wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Can anyone confirm/disprove, that any Brocade product is know to have
> 'religious' restriction for 3rd party optics. Both SPF and XFP/SPF+.
>
> I've been told it (non-native transceivers) is accepted, but there are
> some rumors…
>
> --
> Regards,
> Pavel
> _______________________________________________
> foundry-nsp mailing list
> foundry-nsp [at] puck
> http://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/foundry-nsp

--

Met vriendelijke groet,

Jeroen Wunnink,
EasyHosting B.V. Systeembeheerder
systeembeheer [at] easyhosting

telefoon:+31 (035) 6285455 Postbus 48
fax: +31 (035) 6838242 3755 ZG Eemnes

http://www.easyhosting.nl
http://www.easycolocate.nl

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Jorik.Jonker at eu

Apr 18, 2011, 1:16 AM

Post #9 of 16 (1161 views)
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Re: 3rd party optics [In reply to]

Hi,

It seems the Brocade products we use (FastIron, BigIron and NetIron) are happy to accept and use third party optics (E1MG-*, XFP-*), but some of the boxes, particulary FastIrons, are a bit picky on reporting DOM. Workaround seems to reprogram the EEPROM, so it lies to the switch about its make and model.

Only troubles I've seen is with E1MG-TX (RJ45 copper) "optics", but it could be that we have seen a bad batch.

Best regards,

Jorik Jonker

-----Original Message-----
From: foundry-nsp-bounces [at] puck [mailto:foundry-nsp-bounces [at] puck] On Behalf Of Pavel Lunin
Sent: donderdag 14 april 2011 19:42
To: foundry-nsp [at] puck
Subject: [f-nsp] 3rd party optics

Hi all,

Can anyone confirm/disprove, that any Brocade product is know to have
'religious' restriction for 3rd party optics. Both SPF and XFP/SPF+.

I've been told it (non-native transceivers) is accepted, but there are
some rumors...

--
Regards,
Pavel
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This email is from Equinix Europe Limited or one of its associated/subsidiary companies. This email, and any files transmitted with it, contains information which is confidential, may be legally privileged and is solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this email immediately. Equinix Europe Limited. Registered Office: Quadrant House, 4 Thomas More Square, London E1W 1YW. Registered in England and Wales, No. 6293383.

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jf at probe-networks

Apr 19, 2011, 7:53 AM

Post #10 of 16 (1187 views)
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Re: 3rd party optics [In reply to]

Hi,

i can confirm that DOM support seems to not work on BigIron RX with 3rd
party SFP optics:

Port 2/1:
Type : SFP (LX-1310nm)
Vendor: FINISAR CORP. , Version:
Part# : FTRJ-1319-7D-CSC, Serial#: H824106
Port 2/2:
Type : SFP (LX-1310nm)
Vendor: FINISAR CORP. , Version:
Part# : FTRJ-1319-7D-CSC, Serial#: P4L0G4S
Port 2/3:
Type : SFP (LX-1310nm)
Vendor: CISCO-FINISAR , Version: A0
Part# : 1000BASE-LX , Serial#: H11L290
Port 2/4:
Type : SFP (LX-1310nm)
Vendor: CISCO-FINISAR , Version: A0
Part# : 1000BASE-LX , Serial#: H11L291

#sh optic 2
Port Temperature Tx Power Rx Power Tx Bias Current Monitor
+----+-----------+--------------+--------------+---------------+-------+
2/1 N/A N/A N/A N/A
2/2 N/A N/A N/A N/A
2/3 N/A N/A N/A N/A
2/4 N/A N/A N/A N/A
2/5 N/A N/A N/A N/A
2/6 N/A N/A N/A N/A

Apr 19 16:46:19:W:WARNING: 2/4 optic The SFP optic installed does not
support optical monitoring feature
Apr 19 16:46:19:W:WARNING: 2/3 optic The SFP optic installed does not
support optical monitoring feature
Apr 19 16:46:19:W:WARNING: 2/2 optic The SFP optic installed does not
support optical monitoring feature
Apr 19 16:46:19:W:WARNING: 2/1 optic The SFP optic installed does not
support optical monitoring feature

If you check the finisar datasheet for FTRJ-1319-7D-CSC you will see
that these support DOM.

I have an eeprom SFP(+)/XFP programmer on order and will be able to
reprogram these soon. Lets see if that helps.

3rd party XFP's work fine as well as display DOM correctly:

Port 4/1:
Type : 10GBASE-CX4 (XFP)
Vendor: , Version:
Part# : , Serial#:
Port 4/2:
Type : 10GBASE-LR/LW (XFP)
Vendor: BOOKHAM-TECHNOL-, Version:
Part# : , Serial#:

Port Temperature Tx Power Rx Power Tx Bias Current Monitor
+----+-----------+--------------+--------------+---------------+-------+
4/1 36.8320 C -001.9084 dBm -006.0941 dBm 43.288 mA Disabled
4/2 35.5429 C NONE 0.000 mA Disabled

Ironically the 4/1 XFP type is incorrectly detected but DOM still works
on that port. (Port 4/2 is not connected, so DOM reading is correct).

(Running RX Code 2.7.02i)

Regards,
Jonas Frey

Am Montag, den 18.04.2011, 09:16 +0100 schrieb Jorik Jonker:
> Hi,
>
> It seems the Brocade products we use (FastIron, BigIron and NetIron) are happy to accept and use third party optics (E1MG-*, XFP-*), but some of the boxes, particulary FastIrons, are a bit picky on reporting DOM. Workaround seems to reprogram the EEPROM, so it lies to the switch about its make and model.
>
> Only troubles I've seen is with E1MG-TX (RJ45 copper) "optics", but it could be that we have seen a bad batch.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jorik Jonker
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: foundry-nsp-bounces [at] puck [mailto:foundry-nsp-bounces [at] puck] On Behalf Of Pavel Lunin
> Sent: donderdag 14 april 2011 19:42
> To: foundry-nsp [at] puck
> Subject: [f-nsp] 3rd party optics
>
> Hi all,
>
> Can anyone confirm/disprove, that any Brocade product is know to have
> 'religious' restriction for 3rd party optics. Both SPF and XFP/SPF+.
>
> I've been told it (non-native transceivers) is accepted, but there are
> some rumors...
>
> --
> Regards,
> Pavel
> _______________________________________________
> foundry-nsp mailing list
> foundry-nsp [at] puck
> http://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/foundry-nsp
>
>
> This email is from Equinix Europe Limited or one of its associated/subsidiary companies. This email, and any files transmitted with it, contains information which is confidential, may be legally privileged and is solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this email immediately. Equinix Europe Limited. Registered Office: Quadrant House, 4 Thomas More Square, London E1W 1YW. Registered in England and Wales, No. 6293383.
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundry-nsp mailing list
> foundry-nsp [at] puck
> http://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/foundry-nsp

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robhass at gmail

Apr 19, 2011, 11:21 AM

Post #11 of 16 (1155 views)
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Re: 3rd party optics [In reply to]

On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Jonas Frey (Probe Networks)
<jf [at] probe-networks> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> i can confirm that DOM support seems to not work on BigIron RX with 3rd
> party SFP optics:

DOM also not work on 3rd party SFP optics on CER running NetIron 5.1 (05.1.00b).
I checked Finisars and Cisco.
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lausgans at gmail

Nov 14, 2011, 9:47 PM

Post #12 of 16 (685 views)
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Re: 3rd party optics [In reply to]

What about Cisco GLC-SX-MM in FastIron Edge switches?
1) support;
2) DOM.
?
I'm asking because i know where to get used
GLC-SX-MM at extremely low price near my city.

Thanks in advance.
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r.bhatia at ipax

Nov 15, 2011, 12:26 AM

Post #13 of 16 (682 views)
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Re: 3rd party optics [In reply to]

On 2011-11-15 06:47, lausgans [at] gmail wrote:
> What about Cisco GLC-SX-MM in FastIron Edge switches?
> 1) support;
> 2) DOM.
> ?
> I'm asking because i know where to get used
> GLC-SX-MM at extremely low price near my city.

Cisco compatible GLC-SX-MM, for example from finisair, are working for
me. what do you mean by DOM?

cheers,
raoul
--
____________________________________________________________________
DI (FH) Raoul Bhatia M.Sc. email. r.bhatia [at] ipax
Technischer Leiter

IPAX - Aloy Bhatia Hava OG web. http://www.ipax.at
Barawitzkagasse 10/2/2/11 email. office [at] ipax
1190 Wien tel. +43 1 3670030
FN 277995t HG Wien fax. +43 1 3670030 15
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lausgans at gmail

Nov 15, 2011, 12:35 AM

Post #14 of 16 (683 views)
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Re: 3rd party optics [In reply to]

> Cisco compatible GLC-SX-MM, for example from finisair

Thank you. I recently got another confirmation.

> what do you mean by DOM?

Optical monitoring. Like this:
"Port Temperature Tx Power Rx Power Tx Bias Current Monitor
+----+-----------+--------------+--------------+---------------+-------+
4/1 36.8320 C -001.9084 dBm -006.0941 dBm 43.288 mA Disabled
4/2 35.5429 C NONE 0.000 mA Disabled"
I've got info few minutes ago, that Cisco SFP-GE-S should provide DOM,
while GLC-SX-MM not.
The whole mail-discussion was archived, and can be access via web, for
example at http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/nsp/foundry/28878 .

End of question. Although all experience regarding 3rd party SFPs in
Foundry equipment will be interesting for me, as well.

15.11.2011 12:26, Raoul Bhatia [IPAX] wrote:
> On 2011-11-15 06:47, lausgans [at] gmail wrote:
>> What about Cisco GLC-SX-MM in FastIron Edge switches?
>> 1) support;
>> 2) DOM.
>> ?
>> I'm asking because i know where to get used
>> GLC-SX-MM at extremely low price near my city.
>
> Cisco compatible GLC-SX-MM, for example from finisair, are working for
> me. what do you mean by DOM?
>
> cheers,
> raoul
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nick at foobar

Nov 15, 2011, 2:42 AM

Post #15 of 16 (682 views)
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Re: 3rd party optics [In reply to]

On 15/11/2011 05:47, lausgans [at] gmail wrote:
> What about Cisco GLC-SX-MM in FastIron Edge switches?
> 1) support;

At least on a FESX, they do work, yes.

> 2) DOM.

no DOM.

Nick
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lausgans at gmail

Dec 15, 2011, 7:26 AM

Post #16 of 16 (577 views)
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Re: 3rd party optics [In reply to]

Cisco GLC-SX-MM @ FES2402 running IronWare 04.1.01dTc1 = success, no
DOM of course.
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