Mailing List Archive: Netapp: toasters

Netapp Contract / Support questions

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rsurfer at gmail

Oct 20, 2009, 3:23 PM

Post #1 of 5 (500 views)
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Netapp Contract / Support questions

We're a small shop a couple of FAS 3020's doing basic, NFS, CIFS,
Snapdrive/SnapManager For SQL and Snapmirror. We are up for our contract
renewal soon. I have been in the biz for quite a number of years and can
remember back to amazing support from Netapp. I have found quite the
opposite over the past two years. Most are problems with
first addressing the case, usually it took a phone call. Then it gets to
incompetence with their products, like SnapManager for SQL and Snapdrive.
Cases went on forever, i always had to hound them for status, making it
quite frustrating. The end result of most cases is me getting a note from
some support manager at Netapp apologizing.

I still like the products, just hate the support methods.
What do you folks do? We of course want to upgrade when possible to keep up
to date from bugs. We don't want to blow the bank though for their support
if we can go somewhere else for better.

tia for your thoughts,
rsurfer

mzito at gridapp

Oct 20, 2009, 3:59 PM

Post #2 of 5 (472 views)
Permalink

Re: Netapp Contract / Support questions [In reply to]

I'm a big netapp fan - I think the tech is great and I've worked with
them on and off for years.

I think the one thing that netapp support does require in some
situations, similar to some other vendors, is proactive effort on your
part.

Netapp has a bunch of very bright technical people, but support can be
hit or miss.

If you feel like your support engineer doesn't care or doesn't want to
help (hasn't been my experience) or is just not understanding the
problem/resolving it fast enough (definitely seen this), escalate.

And netapp, as opposed to other vendors I work with, will come through
for you. You'll get someone from engineering on the phone, or a
service manager, etc.

You can argue that you shouldn't have to do this, and in a perfect
world, I agree. But whenever I or a customer of mine who is a netapp
shop has been in a bind, netapp has delivered. I think that's worth
something.

There are third party companies that provide netapp support, but other
than for basic parts replacement on legacy systems, I can't recommend
them.

Thanks,
Matt

On Oct 20, 2009, at 6:49 PM, "Rasta Surfer" <rsurfer[at]gmail.com> wrote:

> We're a small shop a couple of FAS 3020's doing basic, NFS, CIFS,
> Snapdrive/SnapManager For SQL and Snapmirror. We are up for our
> contract renewal soon. I have been in the biz for quite a number of
> years and can remember back to amazing support from Netapp. I have
> found quite the opposite over the past two years. Most are problems
> with first addressing the case, usually it took a phone call. Then
> it gets to incompetence with their products, like SnapManager for
> SQL and Snapdrive. Cases went on forever, i always had to hound
> them for status, making it quite frustrating. The end result of
> most cases is me getting a note from some support manager at Netapp
> apologizing.
>
> I still like the products, just hate the support methods.
> What do you folks do? We of course want to upgrade when possible to
> keep up to date from bugs. We don't want to blow the bank though
> for their support if we can go somewhere else for better.
>
> tia for your thoughts,
> rsurfer
>
>

max.reid at saikonetworks

Oct 20, 2009, 4:18 PM

Post #3 of 5 (470 views)
Permalink

Re: Netapp Contract / Support questions [In reply to]

Haven't had issues with netapp support.... I've asked for RMA's simply
to troubleshoot a problem (Is it esh4, shelf, or SFP as an example)
and they've come through.

I suppose some of the Host based products (snapmanager for *,
snapdrive) are a little bit more complicated in terms of
troubleshooting, due to situations where you might end up
troubleshooting the host OS or the intermediate network more than the
filer itself. Often time simply asking to have someone else handle
the case / escalation is the best thing to do. If you're not happy
for whatever reason, escalate!

~Max

On Oct 20, 2009, at 3:59 PM, Matthew Zito wrote:

> I'm a big netapp fan - I think the tech is great and I've worked
> with them on and off for years.
>
> I think the one thing that netapp support does require in some
> situations, similar to some other vendors, is proactive effort on
> your part.
>
> Netapp has a bunch of very bright technical people, but support can
> be hit or miss.
>
> If you feel like your support engineer doesn't care or doesn't want
> to help (hasn't been my experience) or is just not understanding the
> problem/resolving it fast enough (definitely seen this), escalate.
>
> And netapp, as opposed to other vendors I work with, will come
> through for you. You'll get someone from engineering on the phone,
> or a service manager, etc.
>
> You can argue that you shouldn't have to do this, and in a perfect
> world, I agree. But whenever I or a customer of mine who is a
> netapp shop has been in a bind, netapp has delivered. I think
> that's worth something.
>
> There are third party companies that provide netapp support, but
> other than for basic parts replacement on legacy systems, I can't
> recommend them.
>
> Thanks,
> Matt
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 20, 2009, at 6:49 PM, "Rasta Surfer" <rsurfer[at]gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> We're a small shop a couple of FAS 3020's doing basic, NFS, CIFS,
>> Snapdrive/SnapManager For SQL and Snapmirror. We are up for our
>> contract renewal soon. I have been in the biz for quite a number
>> of years and can remember back to amazing support from Netapp. I
>> have found quite the opposite over the past two years. Most are
>> problems with first addressing the case, usually it took a phone
>> call. Then it gets to incompetence with their products, like
>> SnapManager for SQL and Snapdrive. Cases went on forever, i always
>> had to hound them for status, making it quite frustrating. The end
>> result of most cases is me getting a note from some support manager
>> at Netapp apologizing.
>>
>> I still like the products, just hate the support methods.
>> What do you folks do? We of course want to upgrade when possible
>> to keep up to date from bugs. We don't want to blow the bank
>> though for their support if we can go somewhere else for better.
>>
>> tia for your thoughts,
>> rsurfer
>>
>>

Chris.Blackmor at amd

Oct 20, 2009, 4:38 PM

Post #4 of 5 (473 views)
Permalink

Re: Netapp Contract / Support questions [In reply to]

I agree with Matt. USUALLY we get outstanding support from NA. We also track people we work with and keep an informal ranking system. +5=walks on water to -5=hang up and try again. We are a large shop with more than 140 filers world wide. This equates to a lot of interaction. Yes, we pay out the nose for support but we usually so pretty well with them.

In the instances where your engineer is falling flat remember two little words...
Duty Manager

As far as tier 1 support, I have not found a large company that has quite met NA's bar but there is always room for improvement.
C-

----- Original Message -----
From: owner-toasters[at]mathworks.com <owner-toasters[at]mathworks.com>
To: Rasta Surfer <rsurfer[at]gmail.com>
Cc: toasters[at]mathworks.com <toasters[at]mathworks.com>
Sent: Tue Oct 20 17:59:30 2009
Subject: Re: Netapp Contract / Support questions

I'm a big netapp fan - I think the tech is great and I've worked with
them on and off for years.

I think the one thing that netapp support does require in some
situations, similar to some other vendors, is proactive effort on your
part.

Netapp has a bunch of very bright technical people, but support can be
hit or miss.

If you feel like your support engineer doesn't care or doesn't want to
help (hasn't been my experience) or is just not understanding the
problem/resolving it fast enough (definitely seen this), escalate.

And netapp, as opposed to other vendors I work with, will come through
for you. You'll get someone from engineering on the phone, or a
service manager, etc.

You can argue that you shouldn't have to do this, and in a perfect
world, I agree. But whenever I or a customer of mine who is a netapp
shop has been in a bind, netapp has delivered. I think that's worth
something.

There are third party companies that provide netapp support, but other
than for basic parts replacement on legacy systems, I can't recommend
them.

Thanks,
Matt

On Oct 20, 2009, at 6:49 PM, "Rasta Surfer" <rsurfer[at]gmail.com> wrote:

> We're a small shop a couple of FAS 3020's doing basic, NFS, CIFS,
> Snapdrive/SnapManager For SQL and Snapmirror. We are up for our
> contract renewal soon. I have been in the biz for quite a number of
> years and can remember back to amazing support from Netapp. I have
> found quite the opposite over the past two years. Most are problems
> with first addressing the case, usually it took a phone call. Then
> it gets to incompetence with their products, like SnapManager for
> SQL and Snapdrive. Cases went on forever, i always had to hound
> them for status, making it quite frustrating. The end result of
> most cases is me getting a note from some support manager at Netapp
> apologizing.
>
> I still like the products, just hate the support methods.
> What do you folks do? We of course want to upgrade when possible to
> keep up to date from bugs. We don't want to blow the bank though
> for their support if we can go somewhere else for better.
>
> tia for your thoughts,
> rsurfer
>
>

kiessl at heidenhain

Oct 20, 2009, 11:04 PM

Post #5 of 5 (463 views)
Permalink

AW: Netapp Contract / Support questions [In reply to]

I've been working with NetApp for 12 years now. We are a small shop with about 20 filers distributed all over the world. And I'm through ups and downs with NetApp support, too.

I know all the "features" rsufer writes. But whenever it was really important I always got help from NetApp. And in case of problems where more vendors were affected (e. g. Oracle, HP, NetApp) very often NetApp was the only one willing or capable to help.

For the same time periode I've worked with support of other vendors (e. g. with HP for HPUX serviceguard environments). And I think, where support of other vendors have worsened NetApp's has increased.

As Matt writes, I often see that engineers from non-NetApp companies providing NetApp support know less than me. They're OK for replacing parts or supporting non-production environments. But I would not let them support my production environment.

We have signed a contract with NetApp that provides a Technical Global Advisor (TGA). This is a person I know by name, email and phone number. Whenever I feel that something goes wrong with a case - regardless where on the world it is - I call the TGA and he does all the escalation, coordination and "ass-kicking". This is not improving support quality itself but it makes life much easier in case something goes wrong. A TGA costs some extra money and everyone has to decide if it is worth paying it.

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-toasters[at]mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters[at]mathworks.com] Im Auftrag von Blackmor, Chris
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. Oktober 2009 01:38
An: 'mzito[at]gridapp.com'; 'rsurfer[at]gmail.com'
Cc: 'toasters[at]mathworks.com'
Betreff: Re: Netapp Contract / Support questions

I agree with Matt. USUALLY we get outstanding support from NA. We also track people we work with and keep an informal ranking system. +5=walks on water to -5=hang up and try again. We are a large shop with more than 140 filers world wide. This equates to a lot of interaction. Yes, we pay out the nose for support but we usually so pretty well with them.

In the instances where your engineer is falling flat remember two little words...
Duty Manager

As far as tier 1 support, I have not found a large company that has quite met NA's bar but there is always room for improvement.
C-

----- Original Message -----
From: owner-toasters[at]mathworks.com <owner-toasters[at]mathworks.com>
To: Rasta Surfer <rsurfer[at]gmail.com>
Cc: toasters[at]mathworks.com <toasters[at]mathworks.com>
Sent: Tue Oct 20 17:59:30 2009
Subject: Re: Netapp Contract / Support questions

I'm a big netapp fan - I think the tech is great and I've worked with
them on and off for years.

I think the one thing that netapp support does require in some
situations, similar to some other vendors, is proactive effort on your
part.

Netapp has a bunch of very bright technical people, but support can be
hit or miss.

If you feel like your support engineer doesn't care or doesn't want to
help (hasn't been my experience) or is just not understanding the
problem/resolving it fast enough (definitely seen this), escalate.

And netapp, as opposed to other vendors I work with, will come through
for you. You'll get someone from engineering on the phone, or a
service manager, etc.

You can argue that you shouldn't have to do this, and in a perfect
world, I agree. But whenever I or a customer of mine who is a netapp
shop has been in a bind, netapp has delivered. I think that's worth
something.

There are third party companies that provide netapp support, but other
than for basic parts replacement on legacy systems, I can't recommend
them.

Thanks,
Matt

On Oct 20, 2009, at 6:49 PM, "Rasta Surfer" <rsurfer[at]gmail.com> wrote:

> We're a small shop a couple of FAS 3020's doing basic, NFS, CIFS,
> Snapdrive/SnapManager For SQL and Snapmirror. We are up for our
> contract renewal soon. I have been in the biz for quite a number of
> years and can remember back to amazing support from Netapp. I have
> found quite the opposite over the past two years. Most are problems
> with first addressing the case, usually it took a phone call. Then
> it gets to incompetence with their products, like SnapManager for
> SQL and Snapdrive. Cases went on forever, i always had to hound
> them for status, making it quite frustrating. The end result of
> most cases is me getting a note from some support manager at Netapp
> apologizing.
>
> I still like the products, just hate the support methods.
> What do you folks do? We of course want to upgrade when possible to
> keep up to date from bugs. We don't want to blow the bank though
> for their support if we can go somewhere else for better.
>
> tia for your thoughts,
> rsurfer
>
>

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