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jerry at jdixon

Nov 18, 2009, 6:39 AM

Post #1 of 14 (942 views)
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Policy News

If you can make it they can tax it :/

Article in today's Wall Street Journal:

"WASHINGTON -- Federal regulators are considering whether the government
should take greater control of the Internet and ask consumers to pay higher
phone charges in order to provide all Americans with cheaper access to
broadband Internet service.

The Federal Communications Commission Wednesday will lay out the case for
expanding broadband Internet service, outlining current obstacles to making
it widely available. The agency is considering whether to force Internet
providers to share their networks with rivals and raise fees charged on
consumer phone bills to pay for the broader access."

Schatz, A. *Feds mull rules, fees to spur net access - WSJ.com.* Retrieved
11/18/2009, 2009, from
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125850641299752981.html

-Jerry
--
jerry [at] jdixon

jared at puck

Nov 18, 2009, 6:50 AM

Post #2 of 14 (912 views)
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Re: Policy News [In reply to]

How about just mandating that it's illegal to build anything but fiber/gpon for services. If something fails, it needs to be replaced with modern technology.

I know here they replaced copper cable in the middle of the winter last year, it would have made more sense to just use the conduit they were replacing and put fiber in.

But the fiber union guys != copper union guys so that is harder to do.

Oh well, stuck in the 70's with my ISDN.

- Jared

On Nov 18, 2009, at 9:39 AM, Jerry Dixon wrote:

> If you can make it they can tax it :/
>
> Article in today's Wall Street Journal:
>
> "WASHINGTON -- Federal regulators are considering whether the government
> should take greater control of the Internet and ask consumers to pay higher
> phone charges in order to provide all Americans with cheaper access to
> broadband Internet service.
>
> The Federal Communications Commission Wednesday will lay out the case for
> expanding broadband Internet service, outlining current obstacles to making
> it widely available. The agency is considering whether to force Internet
> providers to share their networks with rivals and raise fees charged on
> consumer phone bills to pay for the broader access."
>
> Schatz, A. *Feds mull rules, fees to spur net access - WSJ.com.* Retrieved
> 11/18/2009, 2009, from
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125850641299752981.html
>
> -Jerry
> --
> jerry [at] jdixon

jerry at jdixon

Nov 18, 2009, 6:57 AM

Post #3 of 14 (914 views)
Permalink

Re: Policy News [In reply to]

While we're at it why not charge taxes for having security bolted on
too....I'm waiting for my Internet EZ-Pass to come in the mail to mount on
my cable modem :-O

I'm wondering where they come up with these schemes...I didn't see any
mention of tax breaks to encourage the roll out. Just more charges.

Jerry

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 9:50 AM, Jared Mauch <jared [at] puck> wrote:

> How about just mandating that it's illegal to build anything but fiber/gpon
> for services. If something fails, it needs to be replaced with modern
> technology.
>
> I know here they replaced copper cable in the middle of the winter last
> year, it would have made more sense to just use the conduit they were
> replacing and put fiber in.
>
> But the fiber union guys != copper union guys so that is harder to do.
>
> Oh well, stuck in the 70's with my ISDN.
>
> - Jared
>
> On Nov 18, 2009, at 9:39 AM, Jerry Dixon wrote:
>
> > If you can make it they can tax it :/
> >
> > Article in today's Wall Street Journal:
> >
> > "WASHINGTON -- Federal regulators are considering whether the government
> > should take greater control of the Internet and ask consumers to pay
> higher
> > phone charges in order to provide all Americans with cheaper access to
> > broadband Internet service.
> >
> > The Federal Communications Commission Wednesday will lay out the case for
> > expanding broadband Internet service, outlining current obstacles to
> making
> > it widely available. The agency is considering whether to force Internet
> > providers to share their networks with rivals and raise fees charged on
> > consumer phone bills to pay for the broader access."
> >
> > Schatz, A. *Feds mull rules, fees to spur net access - WSJ.com.*
> Retrieved
> > 11/18/2009, 2009, from
> > http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125850641299752981.html
> >
> > -Jerry
> > --
> > jerry [at] jdixon
>
>

--
jerry [at] jdixon
(443) 295-3779

streiner at cluebyfour

Nov 18, 2009, 7:00 AM

Post #4 of 14 (910 views)
Permalink

Re: Policy News [In reply to]

On Wed, 18 Nov 2009, Jerry Dixon wrote:

> The Federal Communications Commission Wednesday will lay out the case for
> expanding broadband Internet service, outlining current obstacles to making
> it widely available. The agency is considering whether to force Internet
> providers to share their networks with rivals and raise fees charged on
> consumer phone bills to pay for the broader access."

The telcos are asking for more taxpayer-funded goodie--er... incentives
to expand broadband coverage. Given that the incentives (entry into
additional markets, additional fees tacked onto customer bills,
reduction/elimination of various other regulatory hurdles, etc) that have
been handed to them over the past 10+ years have largely failed to
produce that expanded coverage and improved service, doing more of the
same is pretty much throwing good money after bad.

jms

bclark at spectraaccess

Nov 18, 2009, 7:41 AM

Post #5 of 14 (911 views)
Permalink

Re: Policy News [In reply to]

Yeah...because when the economy is sucking wind why not raise fees to
the consumer?!?!

Want to get broadband out to people, then deal with duopolies that many
of the regions in the country have...such as Verizon & Comcast! They are
the main barriers that cause grief in deployment, giving a chance there
are any number of small businesses that could respond to a broadband
deployment faster, quicker and cheaper! Talk with any CLEC and they have
countless stories regarding the horrors of dealing with an ILEC.

Bret

On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 10:00 -0500, Justin M. Streiner wrote:

>
> > The Federal Communications Commission Wednesday will lay out the
> case for
> > expanding broadband Internet service, outlining current obstacles to
> making
> > it widely available. The agency is considering whether to force
> Internet
> > providers to share their networks with rivals and raise fees charged
> on
> > consumer phone bills to pay for the broader access."

streiner at cluebyfour

Nov 18, 2009, 7:55 AM

Post #6 of 14 (912 views)
Permalink

Re: Policy News [In reply to]

On Wed, 18 Nov 2009, Bret Clark wrote:

> Yeah...because when the economy is sucking wind why not raise fees to
> the consumer?!?!

And one of the points of my original response was that consumers in large
part have not received any additional value out of the fees they've paying
(directly or indirectly) for the past several years. Throwing yet more
cash into the hog trough doesn't make much sense.

> Want to get broadband out to people, then deal with duopolies that many
> of the regions in the country have...such as Verizon & Comcast! They are
> the main barriers that cause grief in deployment, giving a chance there
> are any number of small businesses that could respond to a broadband
> deployment faster, quicker and cheaper! Talk with any CLEC and they have
> countless stories regarding the horrors of dealing with an ILEC.

Having worked much more closely with many ILECs in a previous life than I
do now, I have plenty of horror stories of my own.

jms

cmeidinger at sendmail

Nov 18, 2009, 11:01 AM

Post #7 of 14 (907 views)
Permalink

Re: Policy News [In reply to]

Command+0 for the activity viewer - then click on the stop sign

Sent from my iPhone. Please execute spelling errors.

On 18.11.2009, at 17:43, Steven Bellovin <smb [at] cs> wrote:

> Does anyone know an easy way to do "kill thread" in MacOS's
> Mail.App? It's getting increasingly hard to read the NANOG list on
> my Mac without such a capability. (Yes, the question is serious on
> its own, apart from any other meanings you may choose to read into
> it.)

mdodd at doddserver

Nov 18, 2009, 11:13 AM

Post #8 of 14 (904 views)
Permalink

Re: Policy News [In reply to]

I think he meant being able to easily delete an entire thread of emails, like you might be able to if you were using Gmail. Sadly I don't know of any feature that does this in Mail.app, but you can always make a Smart Mailbox with the rule Any Recipient : Contains : "nanog [at] merit" and delete things within that mailbox.

Best,

-Matt Dodd

On Nov 18, 2009, at 2:01 PM, Chris Meidinger wrote:

> Command+0 for the activity viewer - then click on the stop sign
>
> Sent from my iPhone. Please execute spelling errors.
>
> On 18.11.2009, at 17:43, Steven Bellovin <smb [at] cs> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know an easy way to do "kill thread" in MacOS's Mail.App? It's getting increasingly hard to read the NANOG list on my Mac without such a capability. (Yes, the question is serious on its own, apart from any other meanings you may choose to read into it.)
>

charles at thewybles

Nov 18, 2009, 11:18 AM

Post #9 of 14 (902 views)
Permalink

Re: Policy News [In reply to]

View -> Organize by thread.

Then just hit the little circle, which selects all messages. Then
delete.

On Nov 18, 2009, at 11:13 AM, Matthew Dodd wrote:

> I think he meant being able to easily delete an entire thread of
> emails, like you might be able to if you were using Gmail. Sadly I
> don't know of any feature that does this in Mail.app, but you can
> always make a Smart Mailbox with the rule Any Recipient : Contains :
> "nanog [at] merit" and delete things within that mailbox.
>
> Best,
>
> -Matt Dodd
>
> On Nov 18, 2009, at 2:01 PM, Chris Meidinger wrote:
>
>> Command+0 for the activity viewer - then click on the stop sign
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone. Please execute spelling errors.
>>
>> On 18.11.2009, at 17:43, Steven Bellovin <smb [at] cs> wrote:
>>
>>> Does anyone know an easy way to do "kill thread" in MacOS's
>>> Mail.App? It's getting increasingly hard to read the NANOG list
>>> on my Mac without such a capability. (Yes, the question is
>>> serious on its own, apart from any other meanings you may choose
>>> to read into it.)
>>
>
>

hrlinneweh at sbcglobal

Nov 18, 2009, 11:26 AM

Post #10 of 14 (900 views)
Permalink

Re: Policy News [In reply to]

Well, I was reading this https://mozillalabs.com/raindrop� and it could have the potential
to solve these problems for non gmail users and policy issues surrounding email itself.
This is not intended to rain on anyones parade.

-henry

________________________________
From: Matthew Dodd <mdodd [at] doddserver>
To: Chris Meidinger <cmeidinger [at] sendmail>
Cc: Nanog <nanog [at] merit>
Sent: Wed, November 18, 2009 11:13:27 AM
Subject: Re: Policy News

I think he meant being able to easily delete an entire thread of emails, like you might be able to if you were using Gmail. Sadly I don't know of any feature that does this in Mail.app, but you can always make a Smart Mailbox with the rule Any Recipient : Contains : "nanog [at] merit" and delete things within that mailbox.

Best,

-Matt Dodd

On Nov 18, 2009, at 2:01 PM, Chris Meidinger wrote:

> Command+0 for the activity viewer - then click on the stop sign
>
> Sent from my iPhone. Please execute spelling errors.
>
> On 18.11.2009, at 17:43, Steven Bellovin <smb [at] cs> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know an easy way to do "kill thread" in MacOS's Mail.App?� It's getting increasingly hard to read the NANOG list on my Mac without such a capability.� (Yes, the question is serious on its own, apart from any other meanings you may choose to read into it.)
>

smb at cs

Nov 18, 2009, 11:27 AM

Post #11 of 14 (903 views)
Permalink

Re: Policy News [In reply to]

On Nov 18, 2009, at 2:13 PM, Matthew Dodd wrote:

> I think he meant being able to easily delete an entire thread of emails, like you might be able to if you were using Gmail.

Yup, precisely.

> Sadly I don't know of any feature that does this in Mail.app, but you can always make a Smart Mailbox with the rule Any Recipient : Contains : "nanog [at] merit" and delete things within that mailbox.

Or a rule to at least mark the messages as read. I can do that -- I do do that, for threads that have gotten too annoying for too long, but it takes many mouse clicks to add each new offending subject line.

--Steve Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb

owen at delong

Nov 18, 2009, 12:03 PM

Post #12 of 14 (904 views)
Permalink

Re: Policy News [In reply to]

There isn't a thread-kill per se, but, you can create a rule and add
the threads you want
to it fairly easily...

MAIL->Preferences, then go to the "Rules" tab.

Owen

On Nov 18, 2009, at 11:13 AM, Matthew Dodd wrote:

> I think he meant being able to easily delete an entire thread of
> emails, like you might be able to if you were using Gmail. Sadly I
> don't know of any feature that does this in Mail.app, but you can
> always make a Smart Mailbox with the rule Any Recipient : Contains :
> "nanog [at] merit" and delete things within that mailbox.
>
> Best,
>
> -Matt Dodd
>
> On Nov 18, 2009, at 2:01 PM, Chris Meidinger wrote:
>
>> Command+0 for the activity viewer - then click on the stop sign
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone. Please execute spelling errors.
>>
>> On 18.11.2009, at 17:43, Steven Bellovin <smb [at] cs> wrote:
>>
>>> Does anyone know an easy way to do "kill thread" in MacOS's
>>> Mail.App? It's getting increasingly hard to read the NANOG list
>>> on my Mac without such a capability. (Yes, the question is
>>> serious on its own, apart from any other meanings you may choose
>>> to read into it.)
>>
>

cmeidinger at sendmail

Nov 18, 2009, 1:21 PM

Post #13 of 14 (896 views)
Permalink

Re: Policy News [In reply to]

On 18.11.2009, at 20:08, Jeff Saxe wrote:

> I don't think Steve meant a way to stop the CPU / process thread of retrieving email if it is hung talking to an email server, although thank you for that. I believe Steve meant "I want to keep reading the NANOG mailing list in general, but this particular message thread has zero interest to me, so as any new emails come in that are replies to replies to replies to this thread, just suppress them so I don't have to even hit Delete.". Something like that.

Ah, I thought you meant threads were blocking Mail.app from processing messages in other mailboxes. I subscribe to several imap boxes with over half a million messages in them, so I use activity monitor to kill sync all the time. Mail.app seems to not process anything else on the same account as long as it's busy processing a subscription for a particular mailbox, which can take forever in some cases.

As to the actual question, I use Mail.app in threaded mode anyway. When I'm not interested in a thread, I just let it collect messages and mark it as read every couple of days. I'm not aware of any way to tell Mail.app to quit showing messages from a particular thread.

Chris

smeuse at mara

Nov 18, 2009, 8:36 PM

Post #14 of 14 (890 views)
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Re: Policy News [In reply to]

Bret Clark expunged (bclark [at] spectraaccess):

> Want to get broadband out to people, then deal with duopolies that many
> of the regions in the country have...such as Verizon & Comcast

WRT to Comcast ...

There is nothing preventing *any* company from building a cable network in any existing MSO territory. Each license is negotiated town-by-town, county-by-county, there aren't any exclusivity agreements, which allow companies like RCN to compete.

The reason why there isn't more local competition is, well, it's kinda seriously captial inte$ive. You ever notice why RCN doesn't overbuild in East Nowheresville, MI (where Jared lives apparently :)??? Because it's not profitable!

-Steve (Comcast employee, speaking on my own behalf)

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