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Minimum IPv6 size

 

 

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sethm at rollernet

Oct 2, 2009, 4:29 PM

Post #1 of 19 (1234 views)
Permalink
Minimum IPv6 size

Since we're on the topic of what's commonly accepted in IPv4 land (a
/24), what's the story in IPv6 land? It seems to me that a /32 is a fur
sure thing, but others will accept down to a /48, too.

~Seth


oberman at es

Oct 2, 2009, 4:43 PM

Post #2 of 19 (1195 views)
Permalink
Re: Minimum IPv6 size [In reply to]

> Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 16:29:25 -0700
> From: Seth Mattinen <sethm [at] rollernet>
>
> Since we're on the topic of what's commonly accepted in IPv4 land (a
> /24), what's the story in IPv6 land? It seems to me that a /32 is a fur
> sure thing, but others will accept down to a /48, too.

Depends on the address space it is assigned from. Most specify a maximum
prefix length of 32, but the micro-allocations and the allocations for
PI dual-homing are /48.
We consider the following to be "legal":
/* global unicast allocations */
route-filter 2001::/16 prefix-length-range /19-/35;
/* 6to4 prefix */
route-filter 2002::/16 prefix-length-range /16-/16;
/* RIPE allocations */
route-filter 2003::/18 prefix-length-range /19-/32;
/* APNIC allocations */
route-filter 2400::/12 prefix-length-range /13-/32;
/* ARIN allocations */
route-filter 2600::/12 prefix-length-range /13-/32;
/* ARIN allocations */
route-filter 2610::/23 prefix-length-range /24-/32;
/* LACNIC allocations */
route-filter 2800::/12 prefix-length-range /13-/32;
/* RIPE allocations */
route-filter 2A00::/12 prefix-length-range /13-/32;
/* AfriNIC allocations */
route-filter 2C00::/12 prefix-length-range /13-/32;
/* APNIC PI allocations */
route-filter 2001:0DF0::/29 prefix-length-range /40-/48;
/* AFRINIC PI allocations */
route-filter 2001:43F8::/29 prefix-length-range /40-/48;
/* ARIN PI allocations */
route-filter 2620::/23 prefix-length-range /40-/48;
/* ARIN Micro-allocations */
route-filter 2001:0500::/24 prefix-length-range /44-/48;

This means accepting prefixes ARIN says we should not, but ARIN does not
set our routing policy and I will be on a panel on that issue at NANOG in
Dearborn later this month.
--
R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer
Energy Sciences Network (ESnet)
Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab)
E-mail: oberman [at] es Phone: +1 510 486-8634
Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751


owen at delong

Oct 2, 2009, 7:02 PM

Post #3 of 19 (1192 views)
Permalink
Re: Minimum IPv6 size [In reply to]

Given that ARIN issues /48s to multihomed end users, I think it would
be wise to accept them.

Owen

On Oct 2, 2009, at 4:29 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

> Since we're on the topic of what's commonly accepted in IPv4 land (a
> /24), what's the story in IPv6 land? It seems to me that a /32 is a
> fur
> sure thing, but others will accept down to a /48, too.
>
> ~Seth


sethm at rollernet

Oct 2, 2009, 7:08 PM

Post #4 of 19 (1191 views)
Permalink
Re: Minimum IPv6 size [In reply to]

Owen DeLong wrote:
> Given that ARIN issues /48s to multihomed end users, I think it would
> be wise to accept them.
>

True, although 2620:0::/23 is still a black hole for some. When did ARIN
start using it, 2007?

~Seth


jhma at mcvax

Oct 3, 2009, 1:27 AM

Post #5 of 19 (1187 views)
Permalink
Re: Minimum IPv6 size [In reply to]

--On 2 October 2009 16:43:14 -0700 Kevin Oberman <oberman [at] es> wrote:
> Depends on the address space it is assigned from. Most specify a maximum
> prefix length of 32, but the micro-allocations and the allocations for
> PI dual-homing are /48.
> We consider the following to be "legal":
> /* global unicast allocations */
> route-filter 2001::/16 prefix-length-range /19-/35;
> /* 6to4 prefix */
> route-filter 2002::/16 prefix-length-range /16-/16;
> /* RIPE allocations */
> route-filter 2003::/18 prefix-length-range /19-/32;
> /* APNIC allocations */
> route-filter 2400::/12 prefix-length-range /13-/32;
> /* ARIN allocations */
> route-filter 2600::/12 prefix-length-range /13-/32;
> /* ARIN allocations */
> route-filter 2610::/23 prefix-length-range /24-/32;
> /* LACNIC allocations */
> route-filter 2800::/12 prefix-length-range /13-/32;
> /* RIPE allocations */
> route-filter 2A00::/12 prefix-length-range /13-/32;
> /* AfriNIC allocations */
> route-filter 2C00::/12 prefix-length-range /13-/32;
> /* APNIC PI allocations */
> route-filter 2001:0DF0::/29 prefix-length-range /40-/48;
> /* AFRINIC PI allocations */
> route-filter 2001:43F8::/29 prefix-length-range /40-/48;
> /* ARIN PI allocations */
> route-filter 2620::/23 prefix-length-range /40-/48;
> /* ARIN Micro-allocations */
> route-filter 2001:0500::/24 prefix-length-range /44-/48;
>
> This means accepting prefixes ARIN says we should not, but ARIN does not
> set our routing policy and I will be on a panel on that issue at NANOG in
> Dearborn later this month.


It might be worth relaxing filtering within 2001::/16. The RIPE NCC
appears to be making /48 PI assignments from within 2001:678::/29 (e.g. the
RIPE Meeting next week will be using 2001:67c:64::/48)

James


leo.vegoda at icann

Oct 3, 2009, 3:01 AM

Post #6 of 19 (1185 views)
Permalink
Re: Minimum IPv6 size [In reply to]

On Oct 3, 2009, at 1:28 AM, "James Aldridge" <jhma [at] mcvax> wrote:

[...]

> It might be worth relaxing filtering within 2001::/16. The RIPE NCC
> appears to be making /48 PI assignments from within 2001:678::/29
> (e.g. the
> RIPE Meeting next week will be using 2001:67c:64::/48)

Why the whole /16 rather than just that /29 and a few other blocks set
aside for /48s? There are a lot of /48s in a /16, so protecting
against someone accidentally deaggregating their allocated /32 into /
48s seems legitimate.

Regards,

Leo


jhma at mcvax

Oct 3, 2009, 5:58 AM

Post #7 of 19 (1184 views)
Permalink
Re: Minimum IPv6 size [In reply to]

--On 3 October 2009 03:01:42 -0700 Leo Vegoda <leo.vegoda [at] icann> wrote:
> On Oct 3, 2009, at 1:28 AM, "James Aldridge" <jhma [at] mcvax> wrote:
>> It might be worth relaxing filtering within 2001::/16. The RIPE NCC
>> appears to be making /48 PI assignments from within 2001:678::/29
>> (e.g. the
>> RIPE Meeting next week will be using 2001:67c:64::/48)
>
> Why the whole /16 rather than just that /29 and a few other blocks set
> aside for /48s? There are a lot of /48s in a /16, so protecting
> against someone accidentally deaggregating their allocated /32 into /
> 48s seems legitimate.

Indeed. By "within 2001::/16" I was just pointing out that, not having the
definitive list, there were some blocks "within 2001::/16" which require a
longer prefix.

James


brandon at rd

Oct 3, 2009, 6:52 AM

Post #8 of 19 (1184 views)
Permalink
Re: Minimum IPv6 size [In reply to]

> > It might be worth relaxing filtering within 2001::/16. The RIPE NCC
> > appears to be making /48 PI assignments from within 2001:678::/29
> > (e.g. the
> > RIPE Meeting next week will be using 2001:67c:64::/48)
>
> Why the whole /16 rather than just that /29 and a few other blocks set
> aside for /48s?

Indeed, and why jumble these up, there's enough space to keep different
allocation types separate and have no confusion with just a few trivial
filters, universally deployed, which I suggest is the only way to stop
degeneration.

If one ISP deviates it creates pressure on others to accept the same.
Then we're heading for another v4 mess as people will continuously push
the boundary.

> There are a lot of /48s in a /16, so protecting
> against someone accidentally deaggregating their allocated /32 into /
> 48s seems legitimate.

And some will deaggregate to protect against others advertising more
specifics

brandon


bicknell at ufp

Oct 3, 2009, 12:35 PM

Post #9 of 19 (1183 views)
Permalink
Re: Minimum IPv6 size [In reply to]

In a message written on Sat, Oct 03, 2009 at 03:01:42AM -0700, Leo Vegoda wrote:
> Why the whole /16 rather than just that /29 and a few other blocks set
> aside for /48s? There are a lot of /48s in a /16, so protecting
> against someone accidentally deaggregating their allocated /32 into /
> 48s seems legitimate.

Our track record of keeping up with these lists as in industry in
IPv4 is pretty poor, I see no reason to think IPv6 is any better.
The more restrictive, the greater the chance of inadvertently filtering
something you should not.

The problem of a peer deaggregating too many routes to you is better
handled with max-prefix settings. We've had this technology for a long
time, and if you're really concerned about getting an extra 10k routes
from a peer use max-prefix, not some draconian, static, never updated
prefix filter.

--
Leo Bicknell - bicknell [at] ufp - CCIE 3440
PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/


oberman at es

Oct 3, 2009, 2:01 PM

Post #10 of 19 (1183 views)
Permalink
Re: Minimum IPv6 size [In reply to]

> Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 09:27:27 +0100
> From: James Aldridge <jhma [at] mcvax>
>
> --On 2 October 2009 16:43:14 -0700 Kevin Oberman <oberman [at] es> wrote:
> > Depends on the address space it is assigned from. Most specify a maximum
> > prefix length of 32, but the micro-allocations and the allocations for
> > PI dual-homing are /48.
> > We consider the following to be "legal":
> > /* global unicast allocations */
> > route-filter 2001::/16 prefix-length-range /19-/35;
> > /* 6to4 prefix */
> > route-filter 2002::/16 prefix-length-range /16-/16;
> > /* RIPE allocations */
> > route-filter 2003::/18 prefix-length-range /19-/32;
> > /* APNIC allocations */
> > route-filter 2400::/12 prefix-length-range /13-/32;
> > /* ARIN allocations */
> > route-filter 2600::/12 prefix-length-range /13-/32;
> > /* ARIN allocations */
> > route-filter 2610::/23 prefix-length-range /24-/32;
> > /* LACNIC allocations */
> > route-filter 2800::/12 prefix-length-range /13-/32;
> > /* RIPE allocations */
> > route-filter 2A00::/12 prefix-length-range /13-/32;
> > /* AfriNIC allocations */
> > route-filter 2C00::/12 prefix-length-range /13-/32;
> > /* APNIC PI allocations */
> > route-filter 2001:0DF0::/29 prefix-length-range /40-/48;
> > /* AFRINIC PI allocations */
> > route-filter 2001:43F8::/29 prefix-length-range /40-/48;
> > /* ARIN PI allocations */
> > route-filter 2620::/23 prefix-length-range /40-/48;
> > /* ARIN Micro-allocations */
> > route-filter 2001:0500::/24 prefix-length-range /44-/48;
> >
> > This means accepting prefixes ARIN says we should not, but ARIN does not
> > set our routing policy and I will be on a panel on that issue at NANOG in
> > Dearborn later this month.
>
>
> It might be worth relaxing filtering within 2001::/16. The RIPE NCC
> appears to be making /48 PI assignments from within 2001:678::/29 (e.g. the
> RIPE Meeting next week will be using 2001:67c:64::/48)

Looks like we need to relax 2001:678::/29 a bit, but I am not sure that
we will open up the entire /16. I already have such for ARIN, AfriNIC,
and APNIC.

Is there some central repository for information on this? We usually
seem to find out about such changes out of the ARIN region a bit after
the fact.
--
R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer
Energy Sciences Network (ESnet)
Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab)
E-mail: oberman [at] es Phone: +1 510 486-8634
Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751


seitz at strato-rz

Oct 3, 2009, 2:29 PM

Post #11 of 19 (1184 views)
Permalink
Re: Minimum IPv6 size [In reply to]

Hello,

Kevin Oberman wrote:
>> Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 09:27:27 +0100
>> From: James Aldridge <jhma [at] mcvax>
>>
>> --On 2 October 2009 16:43:14 -0700 Kevin Oberman <oberman [at] es> wrote:
>>> Depends on the address space it is assigned from. Most specify a maximum
>>> prefix length of 32, but the micro-allocations and the allocations for
>>> PI dual-homing are /48.
>>> We consider the following to be "legal":
>>> /* global unicast allocations */
>>> route-filter 2001::/16 prefix-length-range /19-/35;
>>> /* 6to4 prefix */
>>> route-filter 2002::/16 prefix-length-range /16-/16;
>>> /* RIPE allocations */
>>> route-filter 2003::/18 prefix-length-range /19-/32;
>>> /* APNIC allocations */
>>> route-filter 2400::/12 prefix-length-range /13-/32;
>>> /* ARIN allocations */
>>> route-filter 2600::/12 prefix-length-range /13-/32;
>>> /* ARIN allocations */
>>> route-filter 2610::/23 prefix-length-range /24-/32;
>>> /* LACNIC allocations */
>>> route-filter 2800::/12 prefix-length-range /13-/32;
>>> /* RIPE allocations */
>>> route-filter 2A00::/12 prefix-length-range /13-/32;
>>> /* AfriNIC allocations */
>>> route-filter 2C00::/12 prefix-length-range /13-/32;
>>> /* APNIC PI allocations */
>>> route-filter 2001:0DF0::/29 prefix-length-range /40-/48;
>>> /* AFRINIC PI allocations */
>>> route-filter 2001:43F8::/29 prefix-length-range /40-/48;
>>> /* ARIN PI allocations */
>>> route-filter 2620::/23 prefix-length-range /40-/48;
>>> /* ARIN Micro-allocations */
>>> route-filter 2001:0500::/24 prefix-length-range /44-/48;
>>>
>>> This means accepting prefixes ARIN says we should not, but ARIN does not
>>> set our routing policy and I will be on a panel on that issue at NANOG in
>>> Dearborn later this month.
>>
>> It might be worth relaxing filtering within 2001::/16. The RIPE NCC
>> appears to be making /48 PI assignments from within 2001:678::/29 (e.g. the
>> RIPE Meeting next week will be using 2001:67c:64::/48)
>
> Looks like we need to relax 2001:678::/29 a bit, but I am not sure that
> we will open up the entire /16. I already have such for ARIN, AfriNIC,
> and APNIC.
>
> Is there some central repository for information on this? We usually
> seem to find out about such changes out of the ARIN region a bit after
> the fact.

each RIR has an overview of their managed address space with the longest
prefixes they are assigning/allocating from their ranges. I currently use those
overviews to build IPv6 BGP filters manually. If you build very strict filters,
you have to check the overviews more often as with loose filters.

https://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-ncc-managed-address-space.html
http://www.arin.net/reference/ip_blocks.html
http://www.arin.net/reference/micro_allocations.html
http://www.apnic.net/db/min-alloc.html
http://lacnic.net/en/registro/index.html
http://www.afrinic.net/Registration/resources.htm

There ist also a loose and a strict filter recommendation by Gert Doering [1],
but the strict filter is very strict at the moment. It allows only /48s from
RIPEs IPv6 PI space 2001:678::/29 for example, although RIPE currently also
assignes /47 or /46 from this range. Also there should be some deaggregation
allowed. When RIPE allocates a /32 to a LIR and LIR has to deaggregate it for
some reason, because he cannot get a second /32, he should be able to use (eg.)
4 bits for deaggreation. I don't want to see a /48 where RIPE allocates only /32
prefixes, but I would accept prefixes up to a /36.

[1] http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html

Regards,

Christian Seitz


oberman at es

Oct 3, 2009, 3:00 PM

Post #12 of 19 (1181 views)
Permalink
Re: Minimum IPv6 size [In reply to]

> Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 23:29:41 +0200
> From: Christian Seitz <seitz [at] strato-rz>
>
> Hello,
>
> Kevin Oberman wrote:
> >> Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 09:27:27 +0100
> >> From: James Aldridge <jhma [at] mcvax>
> >>
> >> --On 2 October 2009 16:43:14 -0700 Kevin Oberman <oberman [at] es> wrote:
> >>> Depends on the address space it is assigned from. Most specify a maximum
> >>> prefix length of 32, but the micro-allocations and the allocations for
> >>> PI dual-homing are /48.
> >>> We consider the following to be "legal":
> >>> /* global unicast allocations */
> >>> route-filter 2001::/16 prefix-length-range /19-/35;
> >>> /* 6to4 prefix */
> >>> route-filter 2002::/16 prefix-length-range /16-/16;
> >>> /* RIPE allocations */
> >>> route-filter 2003::/18 prefix-length-range /19-/32;
> >>> /* APNIC allocations */
> >>> route-filter 2400::/12 prefix-length-range /13-/32;
> >>> /* ARIN allocations */
> >>> route-filter 2600::/12 prefix-length-range /13-/32;
> >>> /* ARIN allocations */
> >>> route-filter 2610::/23 prefix-length-range /24-/32;
> >>> /* LACNIC allocations */
> >>> route-filter 2800::/12 prefix-length-range /13-/32;
> >>> /* RIPE allocations */
> >>> route-filter 2A00::/12 prefix-length-range /13-/32;
> >>> /* AfriNIC allocations */
> >>> route-filter 2C00::/12 prefix-length-range /13-/32;
> >>> /* APNIC PI allocations */
> >>> route-filter 2001:0DF0::/29 prefix-length-range /40-/48;
> >>> /* AFRINIC PI allocations */
> >>> route-filter 2001:43F8::/29 prefix-length-range /40-/48;
> >>> /* ARIN PI allocations */
> >>> route-filter 2620::/23 prefix-length-range /40-/48;
> >>> /* ARIN Micro-allocations */
> >>> route-filter 2001:0500::/24 prefix-length-range /44-/48;
> >>>
> >>> This means accepting prefixes ARIN says we should not, but ARIN does not
> >>> set our routing policy and I will be on a panel on that issue at NANOG in
> >>> Dearborn later this month.
> >>
> >> It might be worth relaxing filtering within 2001::/16. The RIPE NCC
> >> appears to be making /48 PI assignments from within 2001:678::/29 (e.g. the
> >> RIPE Meeting next week will be using 2001:67c:64::/48)
> >
> > Looks like we need to relax 2001:678::/29 a bit, but I am not sure that
> > we will open up the entire /16. I already have such for ARIN, AfriNIC,
> > and APNIC.
> >
> > Is there some central repository for information on this? We usually
> > seem to find out about such changes out of the ARIN region a bit after
> > the fact.
>
> each RIR has an overview of their managed address space with the longest
> prefixes they are assigning/allocating from their ranges. I currently use those
> overviews to build IPv6 BGP filters manually. If you build very strict filters,
> you have to check the overviews more often as with loose filters.
>
> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-ncc-managed-address-space.html
> http://www.arin.net/reference/ip_blocks.html
> http://www.arin.net/reference/micro_allocations.html
> http://www.apnic.net/db/min-alloc.html
> http://lacnic.net/en/registro/index.html
> http://www.afrinic.net/Registration/resources.htm
>
> There ist also a loose and a strict filter recommendation by Gert Doering [1],
> but the strict filter is very strict at the moment. It allows only /48s from
> RIPEs IPv6 PI space 2001:678::/29 for example, although RIPE currently also
> assignes /47 or /46 from this range. Also there should be some deaggregation
> allowed. When RIPE allocates a /32 to a LIR and LIR has to deaggregate it for
> some reason, because he cannot get a second /32, he should be able to use (eg.)
> 4 bits for deaggreation. I don't want to see a /48 where RIPE allocates only /32
> prefixes, but I would accept prefixes up to a /36.
>
> [1] http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html

Thanks for the AfriNIC URL. I did had not seen that page. I'm pretty
sure that the PI space was not declared last time I looked for
something.

We do allow deaggregation of all space to /35. That is three bits
allowing for 8 different announcements. We are always re-evaluating this
policy and it is quite possible that it will be moved to a /36 in the
future. We also are considering loosening the PI down to /50 or even
/52. I really can't see much justification to go beyond that at this
time.

No matter how hard people try, I am sure that we will need to
continue to broaden filters and expand the route tables. I belive that,
in the long run (and not very long) the only solution will be some kind
of locator/identifier separation which has the potential to control the
size of the RIB and FIB for a very long time.
--
R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer
Energy Sciences Network (ESnet)
Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab)
E-mail: oberman [at] es Phone: +1 510 486-8634
Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751


brandon at rd

Oct 3, 2009, 6:28 PM

Post #13 of 19 (1183 views)
Permalink
Re: Minimum IPv6 size [In reply to]

> Is there some central repository for information on this? We usually
> seem to find out about such changes out of the ARIN region a bit after
> the fact.

Have we not learnt from v4?

If there are to be filters then they should be defined once and never
changed as people will fail to update

If a different allocation requirement arises then start a new prefix
(v6 is big enough to handle this) and define its filter once. Do not
allocate it from an existing range and expect people to adjust their
filters.

brandon


mpetach at netflight

Oct 3, 2009, 8:19 PM

Post #14 of 19 (1180 views)
Permalink
Re: Minimum IPv6 size [In reply to]

On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 6:28 PM, Brandon Butterworth <brandon [at] rd>wrote:

> > Is there some central repository for information on this? We usually
> > seem to find out about such changes out of the ARIN region a bit after
> > the fact.
>
> Have we not learnt from v4?
>
> If there are to be filters then they should be defined once and never
> changed as people will fail to update
>

Yay! We can return to classful routing again. That sure worked out well
for us the first time around. ^_^;


> If a different allocation requirement arises then start a new prefix
> (v6 is big enough to handle this) and define its filter once. Do not
> allocate it from an existing range and expect people to adjust their
> filters.
>

So, if I need to break up my /32 into 4 /34s to cover different geographical
regions, I should instead renumber into a new range set aside for /34s
and give back the /32? Sure seems like a lot of extra overhead.
Perhaps we should give everyone an allocation out of each filter
range, so that they can simply number from the appropriately-classed
range; when you apply for space, you'd get a /32, a /33, a /34, a /35,
a /36, etc. all from the appropriate, statically defined ranges.

*removes tongue from cheek*


> brandon
>
>
Matt


leo.vegoda at icann

Oct 4, 2009, 4:32 AM

Post #15 of 19 (1171 views)
Permalink
Re: Minimum IPv6 size [In reply to]

On 03/10/2009 8:19, "Matthew Petach" <mpetach [at] netflight> wrote:

[...]

> So, if I need to break up my /32 into 4 /34s to cover different geographical
> regions, I should instead renumber into a new range set aside for /34s
> and give back the /32? Sure seems like a lot of extra overhead.
> Perhaps we should give everyone an allocation out of each filter
> range, so that they can simply number from the appropriately-classed
> range; when you apply for space, you'd get a /32, a /33, a /34, a /35,
> a /36, etc. all from the appropriate, statically defined ranges.

I think ARIN proposal 2009-5
(https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2009_5.html) is designed to cope with
the situation you describe. I understand that it's on the agenda for the
meeting in Dearborn.

Regards,

Leo


brandon at rd

Oct 4, 2009, 8:16 AM

Post #16 of 19 (1172 views)
Permalink
Re: Minimum IPv6 size [In reply to]

> > If there are to be filters then they should be defined once and never
> > changed as people will fail to update
>
> Yay! We can return to classful routing again. That sure worked out well
> for us the first time around. ^_^;

We have already, all we're discussing now is if we do a better job
of implementing it.

Classful suffered from lack of space in each range and too coarse a
set of fixed ranges, all fixable in v6 so perhaps it's not so bad?

> So, if I need to break up my /32 into 4 /34s to cover different geographical
> regions, I should instead renumber into a new range set aside for /34s
> and give back the /32?

And what if you need a few /48's, then you're open to others
advertising some of yours too.

With no organised mechanism of communicating acceptable prefix lengths
to all routers [1] then we either do nothing and let anarchy rule, do
something that overly constrains or do half the job and have both
problems.

> Perhaps we should give everyone an allocation out of each filter
> range, so that they can simply number from the appropriately-classed
> range; when you apply for space, you'd get a /32, a /33, a /34, a /35,
> a /36, etc. all from the appropriate, statically defined ranges.
>
> *removes tongue from cheek*

What would be most efficient for all? Semi classful or not I don't mind
but it does seem pointless to have been going round the same circle for
so many years.

brandon

[1] sbgp would be secure anarchy


oberman at es

Oct 4, 2009, 4:49 PM

Post #17 of 19 (1163 views)
Permalink
Re: Minimum IPv6 size [In reply to]

> From: Leo Vegoda <leo.vegoda [at] icann>
> Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 04:32:44 -0700
>
> On 03/10/2009 8:19, "Matthew Petach" <mpetach [at] netflight> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > So, if I need to break up my /32 into 4 /34s to cover different geographical
> > regions, I should instead renumber into a new range set aside for /34s
> > and give back the /32? Sure seems like a lot of extra overhead.
> > Perhaps we should give everyone an allocation out of each filter
> > range, so that they can simply number from the appropriately-classed
> > range; when you apply for space, you'd get a /32, a /33, a /34, a /35,
> > a /36, etc. all from the appropriate, statically defined ranges.
>
> I think ARIN proposal 2009-5
> (https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2009_5.html) is designed to cope with
> the situation you describe. I understand that it's on the agenda for the
> meeting in Dearborn.

I don't think so. I believe the statement is not in regard to separate,
discrete networks bu to a network with a national footprint which must
deaggregate to do traffic engineering by region. Item 2 clearly makes
2009-5 non-applicable to this case.

This issue will be discussed in a Mark Kosters moderated panel at NANOG
in Dearborn. Hey, why not attend both meetings?
--
R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer
Energy Sciences Network (ESnet)
Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab)
E-mail: oberman [at] es Phone: +1 510 486-8634
Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751


leo.vegoda at icann

Oct 5, 2009, 12:13 AM

Post #18 of 19 (1160 views)
Permalink
Re: Minimum IPv6 size [In reply to]

On 04/10/2009 4:49, "Kevin Oberman" <oberman [at] es> wrote:

[...]

>>> So, if I need to break up my /32 into 4 /34s to cover different geographical
>>> regions, I should instead renumber into a new range set aside for /34s
>>> and give back the /32? Sure seems like a lot of extra overhead.
>>> Perhaps we should give everyone an allocation out of each filter
>>> range, so that they can simply number from the appropriately-classed
>>> range; when you apply for space, you'd get a /32, a /33, a /34, a /35,
>>> a /36, etc. all from the appropriate, statically defined ranges.
>>
>> I think ARIN proposal 2009-5
>> (https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2009_5.html) is designed to cope with
>> the situation you describe. I understand that it's on the agenda for the
>> meeting in Dearborn.
>
> I don't think so. I believe the statement is not in regard to separate,
> discrete networks bu to a network with a national footprint which must
> deaggregate to do traffic engineering by region. Item 2 clearly makes
> 2009-5 non-applicable to this case.

I thought that "Geographic distance and diversity between networks" covered
the case above but I could well be wrong.

> This issue will be discussed in a Mark Kosters moderated panel at NANOG
> in Dearborn. Hey, why not attend both meetings?

I won't be there in person but look forward to watching the video feed.

Regards,

Leo


Grzegorz at Janoszka

Nov 12, 2009, 9:32 AM

Post #19 of 19 (927 views)
Permalink
Re: Minimum IPv6 size [In reply to]

Christian Seitz wrote:
> There ist also a loose and a strict filter recommendation by Gert Doering [1],
> but the strict filter is very strict at the moment. It allows only /48s from
> RIPEs IPv6 PI space 2001:678::/29 for example, although RIPE currently also
> assignes /47 or /46 from this range. Also there should be some deaggregation
> allowed. When RIPE allocates a /32 to a LIR and LIR has to deaggregate it for
> some reason, because he cannot get a second /32, he should be able to use (eg.)
> 4 bits for deaggreation. I don't want to see a /48 where RIPE allocates only /32
> prefixes, but I would accept prefixes up to a /36.
>
> [1] http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/ipv6-filters.html

I was thinking about such filters still for v4. Does anyone know if
there are any /8's which have no /24 prefixes assigned? I thought about
filtering out all deaggregated /24's from such /8's. (I care more about
memory of my routers than on a traffic profile of a small company on
another continent).

Another thing:

http://www.db.ripe.net/whois?form_type=simple&full_query_string=&searchtext=193.34.199.0&submit.x=0&submit.y=0&submit=Search



This is a normal /25 assigned as PI with route record /25. Are they
assigned in any given /8 prefix? If yes, you could easily allow /25's
from given /8.

--
Grzegorz Janoszka

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