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OT: Bringing Cisco equipment to US

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sherwin.ang at gmail

Jun 29, 2009, 7:05 AM

Post #1 of 11 (3475 views)
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OT: Bringing Cisco equipment to US

Hello Nanog,

sorry for the OT post but am frustrated to look for the information in
the CBP website and i even called their number but got nothing for
almost 8 minutes, just a recording.

i'll be bringing in 2 cisco switches to one wilshire in LA to install
those switches there. since these are small switches, 3750's, i'll be
carrying them on the check-in luggage. I would like to get some
information if i could be in trouble in any way with regards to
Customs there in the US, i'll be coming from the Philippines by the
way.

insights, off list would be greatly appreciated. tnx!

jabley at hopcount

Jun 29, 2009, 9:19 AM

Post #2 of 11 (3307 views)
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Re: OT: Bringing Cisco equipment to US [In reply to]

On 29-Jun-2009, at 10:05, Sherwin Ang wrote:

> i'll be bringing in 2 cisco switches to one wilshire in LA to install
> those switches there. since these are small switches, 3750's, i'll be
> carrying them on the check-in luggage. I would like to get some
> information if i could be in trouble in any way with regards to
> Customs there in the US, i'll be coming from the Philippines by the
> way.
>
> insights, off list would be greatly appreciated. tnx!

If you put metal devices in your checked baggage you should be
prepared for them to be noticed in routine x-rays as the baggage is
processed. I've found notes from TSA inside my checked bags before
confirming that someone had opened and searched my luggage, most
recently between the US and Canada. There was a Juniper SSG5 in there
(which I had declared) which I presumed caused the bag to be flagged.

Last time I checked, there was no simple box to check on customs
paperwork for "we still own these switches, but we want to keep them
in the US rather than at home". It might well be that they need to be
processed as if you are importing them, in which case commercial
invoices confirming their value and other documentation confirming
their origin might well be required, and you might have to pay import
duty.

If you want to avoid any unpleasant questions at the border, then the
right thing to do is probably to find out what supporting paperwork is
required to support the import of the switches into the US, bring that
paperwork with you, and declare the switches at customs.

Alternatively ship the switches separately, and let FedEx or similar
deal with the border. You can then make the border crossing carrying
nothing but clothes and a laptop, which ought to be uncomplicated.

More alternatively, since c3750s are not particularly exotic or
expensive, look at buying some from a cisco reseller or used network
equipment vendor within the US and have them shipped directly to 1
Wilshire. The switches you have in the Philippines could be used for
something else.

Note I am not a lawyer, this e-mail contains forward-looking
statements, contents may have settled in transit, etc.

Joe

agrier at poofygoof

Jun 29, 2009, 1:46 PM

Post #3 of 11 (3301 views)
Permalink

Re: OT: Bringing Cisco equipment to US [In reply to]

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 12:19:36PM -0400, Joe Abley wrote:
> If you want to avoid any unpleasant questions at the border, then the
> right thing to do is probably to find out what supporting paperwork is
> required to support the import of the switches into the US, bring that
> paperwork with you, and declare the switches at customs.

if the equipment is going to return back its country of origin within 12
months, a carnet could be used. however, if the equipment is going to
be permanently relocated to the US, I suspect standard customs import
procedures would need to be followed.

importing into the US: http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/newsroom/publications/trade/iius.ctt/iius.pdf

details on carnets: http://www.uscib.org/index.asp?DocumentID=1843

--
Aaron J. Grier | "Not your ordinary poofy goof." | agrier [at] poofygoof

martin at theicelandguy

Jun 29, 2009, 1:52 PM

Post #4 of 11 (3296 views)
Permalink

Re: OT: Bringing Cisco equipment to US [In reply to]

Not a lawyer -- not legal advice.

You should only have to declare them at the border and pay the import
duty (tax) _right there_. They take credit cards. Declare them on
customs form I-74? handed out on the plane before you land.

If you try and walk or bag them through without declaring them, you
could be asking for serious problems.

Best,

Martin

On 6/29/09, Joe Abley <jabley [at] hopcount> wrote:
>
> On 29-Jun-2009, at 10:05, Sherwin Ang wrote:
>
>> i'll be bringing in 2 cisco switches to one wilshire in LA to install
>> those switches there. since these are small switches, 3750's, i'll be
>> carrying them on the check-in luggage. I would like to get some
>> information if i could be in trouble in any way with regards to
>> Customs there in the US, i'll be coming from the Philippines by the
>> way.
>>
>> insights, off list would be greatly appreciated. tnx!
>
> If you put metal devices in your checked baggage you should be
> prepared for them to be noticed in routine x-rays as the baggage is
> processed. I've found notes from TSA inside my checked bags before
> confirming that someone had opened and searched my luggage, most
> recently between the US and Canada. There was a Juniper SSG5 in there
> (which I had declared) which I presumed caused the bag to be flagged.
>
> Last time I checked, there was no simple box to check on customs
> paperwork for "we still own these switches, but we want to keep them
> in the US rather than at home". It might well be that they need to be
> processed as if you are importing them, in which case commercial
> invoices confirming their value and other documentation confirming
> their origin might well be required, and you might have to pay import
> duty.
>
> If you want to avoid any unpleasant questions at the border, then the
> right thing to do is probably to find out what supporting paperwork is
> required to support the import of the switches into the US, bring that
> paperwork with you, and declare the switches at customs.
>
> Alternatively ship the switches separately, and let FedEx or similar
> deal with the border. You can then make the border crossing carrying
> nothing but clothes and a laptop, which ought to be uncomplicated.
>
> More alternatively, since c3750s are not particularly exotic or
> expensive, look at buying some from a cisco reseller or used network
> equipment vendor within the US and have them shipped directly to 1
> Wilshire. The switches you have in the Philippines could be used for
> something else.
>
> Note I am not a lawyer, this e-mail contains forward-looking
> statements, contents may have settled in transit, etc.
>
>
> Joe
>
>

--
Martin Hannigan martin [at] theicelandguy
p: +16178216079
Power, Network, and Costs Consulting for Iceland Datacenters and Occupants

lyndon at orthanc

Jun 29, 2009, 1:59 PM

Post #5 of 11 (3310 views)
Permalink

Re: OT: Bringing Cisco equipment to US [In reply to]

On Mon, 2009-06-29 at 13:46 -0700, Aaron J. Grier wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 12:19:36PM -0400, Joe Abley wrote:
> > If you want to avoid any unpleasant questions at the border, then the
> > right thing to do is probably to find out what supporting paperwork is
> > required to support the import of the switches into the US, bring that
> > paperwork with you, and declare the switches at customs.

Don't even think about bringing the gear with you. Ship it ahead by
FedEx or UPS and avoid being imprisoned by the border gestapo.

Seriously, call a shipping broker and let them deal with it. They do
this all the time, and it's worth ten times what you pay to avoid all
the hassles with customs.

--lyndon

john at vocus

Jun 29, 2009, 3:29 PM

Post #6 of 11 (3288 views)
Permalink

Re: OT: Bringing Cisco equipment to US [In reply to]

On 30/06/2009, at 6:52 AM, Martin Hannigan wrote:

> Not a lawyer -- not legal advice.

Neither are the customs guys - experience tells me that if they have
any doubt, they'll seize the equipment. They'll want to see an invoice
for the original purchase of the equipment, and if it was more than
$2000 (I think) it needs to be processed correctly.

Anything coming into the country is an import, even if you don't plan
to sell it. If customs seize the equipment, they'll be nice enough
about it, but allow for a week to resolve the problem with a broker
system that seems to prefer faxes and hand-written forms.

Cisco provide a tool for determining the correct tariff codes for
pieces of their equipment and the components therein;

http://tools.cisco.com/legal/export/pepd/Search.do

"Country of Origin" doesn't work so well for Cisco equipment, as most
of it is made outside of the US.

"Machines for the reception, conversion and transmission or
regeneration of voice, images or other data, including switching and
routing apparatus" have a zero tariff for import into the US, unless
they were manufactured in North Korea or Cuba.

>
> You should only have to declare them at the border and pay the import
> duty (tax) _right there_. They take credit cards. Declare them on
> customs form I-74? handed out on the plane before you land.

Notify One Willshire that the equipment is coming, and use an
international courier to send it there.

The courier will likely charge you less than a customs broker will for
a single item - the brokers are mainly used for large transactions.
While you're legally entitled to bring this equipment in carry-on
luggage, proving and authenticating your right can be a costly and
timely exercise.

John Edwards

tomb at byrneit

Jun 29, 2009, 5:04 PM

Post #7 of 11 (3291 views)
Permalink

RE: OT: Bringing Cisco equipment to US [In reply to]

Even more off-topic: What he said.

I've brought WINE back into the US as checked luggage from wine tasting
trips abroad, but I had printed out all the applicable regulations,
declared it, and had a cashier's check ready for the tariff, and I STILL
had to deal with a supervisor.

The guy at the airport is harried, and anything that takes longer than
about 5 minutes for him to grok puts you in the very long queue. If you
can avoid it, at any reasonable cost, do so.

You CAN'T do that with wine, as it has to be for personal consumption
and traveling with you, but for anything that you can, it's just worth
doing.

Ship it a week early, in case it gets held up.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: John Edwards [mailto:john [at] vocus]
>Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:29 PM
>To: Martin Hannigan; Sherwin Ang
>Cc: nanog [at] nanog
>Subject: Re: OT: Bringing Cisco equipment to US
>
>
>On 30/06/2009, at 6:52 AM, Martin Hannigan wrote:
>
>> Not a lawyer -- not legal advice.
>
>Neither are the customs guys - experience tells me that if they have
>any doubt, they'll seize the equipment. They'll want to see an invoice
>for the original purchase of the equipment, and if it was more than
>$2000 (I think) it needs to be processed correctly.
>
>Anything coming into the country is an import, even if you don't plan
>to sell it. If customs seize the equipment, they'll be nice enough
>about it, but allow for a week to resolve the problem with a broker
>system that seems to prefer faxes and hand-written forms.
>
>Cisco provide a tool for determining the correct tariff codes for
>pieces of their equipment and the components therein;
>
>http://tools.cisco.com/legal/export/pepd/Search.do
>
>"Country of Origin" doesn't work so well for Cisco equipment, as most
>of it is made outside of the US.
>
>"Machines for the reception, conversion and transmission or
>regeneration of voice, images or other data, including switching and
>routing apparatus" have a zero tariff for import into the US, unless
>they were manufactured in North Korea or Cuba.
>
>>
>> You should only have to declare them at the border and pay the import
>> duty (tax) _right there_. They take credit cards. Declare them on
>> customs form I-74? handed out on the plane before you land.
>
>
>Notify One Willshire that the equipment is coming, and use an
>international courier to send it there.
>
>The courier will likely charge you less than a customs broker will for
>a single item - the brokers are mainly used for large transactions.
>While you're legally entitled to bring this equipment in carry-on
>luggage, proving and authenticating your right can be a costly and
>timely exercise.
>
>John Edwards
>
>
>

timothy.arnold at uksolutions

Jul 3, 2009, 2:15 AM

Post #8 of 11 (3201 views)
Permalink

RE: OT: Bringing Cisco equipment to US [In reply to]

> The courier will likely charge you less than a customs broker will for
> a single item - the brokers are mainly used for large transactions.
> While you're legally entitled to bring this equipment in carry-on
> luggage, proving and authenticating your right can be a costly and
> timely exercise.

Jumping on the back of this thread, does anyone have any recommendations for suppliers of Cisco kit in the states? I don't fancy dealing with customs & international shipping.

Thanks
Tim

Timothy Arnold
Senior Engineer, Operations (Network, Security & Facilities Group), UKSolutions

Telephone: 0845 004 1333, option 2
Email: timothy.arnold [at] uksolutions
Web: http://www.uksolutions.co.uk/
UKS Ltd, Birmingham Road, Studley, Warwickshire, B80 7BG Registered in England Number 3036806
This email must be read in conjunction with the legal & service notices on http://www.uksolutions.co.uk/disclaimer

timothy.arnold at uksolutions

Jul 9, 2009, 2:31 AM

Post #9 of 11 (3056 views)
Permalink

RE: OT: Bringing Cisco equipment to US [In reply to]

> Jumping on the back of this thread, does anyone have any recommendations
> for suppliers of Cisco kit in the states? I don't fancy dealing with customs &
> international shipping.
>

Thanks to the significant number of individuals who have replied.

Once I've got the kit shipped to NY, I am going to need some smart hands work to kit out and perform some basic config. Does anyone have any recommendations for companies that do this?

Thanks Again!

Tim

Timothy Arnold
Senior Engineer, Operations (Network, Security & Facilities Group), UKSolutions

Telephone: 0845 004 1333, option 2
Email: timothy.arnold [at] uksolutions
Web: http://www.uksolutions.co.uk/
UKS Ltd, Birmingham Road, Studley, Warwickshire, B80 7BG Registered in England Number 3036806
This email must be read in conjunction with the legal & service notices on http://www.uksolutions.co.uk/disclaimer

gdt at gdt

Jul 9, 2009, 6:31 AM

Post #10 of 11 (3073 views)
Permalink

Re: OT: Bringing Cisco equipment to US [In reply to]

On 30/06/09 07:59, John Edwards wrote:

> The courier will likely charge you less than a customs broker will for a
> single item - the brokers are mainly used for large transactions. While
> you're legally entitled to bring this equipment in carry-on luggage,
> proving and authenticating your right can be a costly and timely exercise.

The other problem is that an import implies a change of ownership
from an overseas company to a US company. Setting up a US holding
company to "own" your "imported" US assets is a major pain and
best avoided where possible. Especially as that company may be
a a "foreign telecommunications carrier" and the US has rather
wonderful laws covering those.

I've done a lot of Australia-US import/export, and I'd very much
suggest building a good relationship with a customs broker. That's
hardly an expense you want for two switches, so buying the switches
in the US (where they come with a valid warranty and correct power
leads) is a good idea.

I wouldn't recommend importing the switches through your luggage.
The few times I've tried that arranging all of the documentation
prior to travel has really sucked. As a trivial example of what can
go wrong, if you unknowingly choose an airport where customs works
9am-5pm and your flight arrives at 2am, then you've got a rather
long wait in the walkway between Immigration and Customs. So long
a wait that you're likely to encounter some other difficulty from
the airport authorities.

--
Glen Turner <http://www.gdt.id.au/~gdt/>

jcdill.lists at gmail

Jul 9, 2009, 7:39 AM

Post #11 of 11 (3082 views)
Permalink

Re: OT: Bringing Cisco equipment to US [In reply to]

Glen Turner wrote:
>
> I wouldn't recommend importing the switches through your luggage.
> The few times I've tried that arranging all of the documentation
> prior to travel has really sucked.
YMMV - I had no problems arranging the documentation.
> As a trivial example of what can
> go wrong, if you unknowingly choose an airport where customs works
> 9am-5pm and your flight arrives at 2am, then you've got a rather
> long wait in the walkway between Immigration and Customs. So long
> a wait that you're likely to encounter some other difficulty from
> the airport authorities.

FUD. I have never encountered an International Airport where
Immigration & Customs Enforcement was closed during the hours that
International flights arrived. Everyone who arrives on an International
flight (there may be some exceptions for flights to/from Canada and
Mexico because of NAFTA) MUST go thru ICE after they get off the
flight. The whole flight would be held up if ICE were not open.

The main thing that "can go wrong" is you don't have the right paperwork
for your switches and have to pay more customs duty than you would if
you had the proper paperwork. Otherwise it's no different than carrying
more than 1 laptop, or expensive camera gear, or jewelry, or any other
expensive item with you thru an International airport when you travel.

jc

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