Mailing List Archive: NANOG: users

Re: fair warning: less than 1000 days left to IPv4 exhaustion

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sean at labrats

May 2, 2008, 2:49 PM

Post #1 of 10 (410 views)
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Re: fair warning: less than 1000 days left to IPv4 exhaustion

> On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Mike Leber <mleber[at]he.net> wrote:
>
>> Since nobody mentioned it yet, there are now less than 1000 days projected
>> until IPv4 exhaustion:

No worries, the Internet is going to end in 2010, and the world ends on
December 21, 2012. I don't think we'll be needing IPv6 in that case.

Has anyone ever figured out how to make multi-homing of customers who
only have a /64 assigned to them work? Are the routers on the going to
be able to handle the billion routing prefixed that will be introduced?
Are there any IP Management software packages that won't bankrupt the
world's economy for IPv6 charges?

Maybe the world really will end, and it's all due to IPv6!

-Sean

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drc at virtualized

May 2, 2008, 2:57 PM

Post #2 of 10 (395 views)
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Re: fair warning: less than 1000 days left to IPv4 exhaustion [In reply to]

> Has anyone ever figured out how to make multi-homing of customers who
> only have a /64 assigned to them work?

Same way you make multi-homing of customers who only have a IPv4 /32
assigned to them work, i.e., not well.

> Maybe the world really will end, and it's all due to IPv6!

Internet doomed, MPEG stalled at 11:00... :-)

Regards,
-drc

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joelja at bogus

May 2, 2008, 3:08 PM

Post #3 of 10 (399 views)
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Re: fair warning: less than 1000 days left to IPv4 exhaustion [In reply to]

Sean Figgins wrote:
>> On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Mike Leber <mleber[at]he.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Since nobody mentioned it yet, there are now less than 1000 days projected
>>> until IPv4 exhaustion:
>
> No worries, the Internet is going to end in 2010, and the world ends on
> December 21, 2012. I don't think we'll be needing IPv6 in that case.
>
> Has anyone ever figured out how to make multi-homing of customers who
> only have a /64 assigned to them work?

how are your /32 v4 announcements working out?

longest prefix I carry in my v6 table are a /48s...

There are only 28224 ASes in announced in the v4 routing system how
many non-agregatable announcements will they represent if they all
participate in v6 tomorrow?

> Are the routers on the going to
> be able to handle the billion routing prefixed that will be introduced?
> Are there any IP Management software packages that won't bankrupt the
> world's economy for IPv6 charges?
>
> Maybe the world really will end, and it's all due to IPv6!
>
> -Sean
>
> _______________________________________________
> NANOG mailing list
> NANOG[at]nanog.org
> http://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog
>

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randy at psg

May 2, 2008, 3:15 PM

Post #4 of 10 (400 views)
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Re: fair warning: less than 1000 days left to IPv4 exhaustion [In reply to]

back office software
ip and dns management software
provisioning tools
cpe
measurement and monitoring and billing

and, of course, backbone and aggregation equipment that can actually
handle real ipv6 traffic flows with acls and chocolate syrup.

randy

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swmike at swm

May 3, 2008, 12:02 AM

Post #5 of 10 (389 views)
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Re: fair warning: less than 1000 days left to IPv4 exhaustion [In reply to]

On Sat, 3 May 2008, Randy Bush wrote:

> back office software
> ip and dns management software
> provisioning tools
> cpe
> measurement and monitoring and billing
>
> and, of course, backbone and aggregation equipment that can actually
> handle real ipv6 traffic flows with acls and chocolate syrup.

Not to mention, you want to be able to do the regular antispoofing etc and
your security devices (which might be based on L2 switches doing DHCP
snooping) doesn't do IPv6, so you need to replace them (or live with lower
security) and this needs serious budget.

--
Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike[at]swm.pp.se

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patrick at ianai

May 4, 2008, 8:22 PM

Post #6 of 10 (361 views)
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Re: fair warning: less than 1000 days left to IPv4 exhaustion [In reply to]

On May 4, 2008, at 11:01 PM, David Conrad wrote:
> On May 3, 2008, at 8:37 PM, Joel Jaeggli wrote:
>> William Warren wrote:
>>> That also doesn't take into account how many /8's are being hoarded
>>> by
>>> organizations that don't need even 25% of that space.
>> which one's would those be?
>
> While I wouldn't call it hoarding, can any single (non-ISP)
> organization actually justify a /8? How many students does MIT have
> again?

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_Institute_of_Technology#Student_demographics
>

<quote>
MIT enrolls more graduate students (approximately 6,000 in total) than
undergraduates (approximately 4,000).
</quote>

Let's assume 2 staff/faculty per student (don't we wish :). So that
would be 30K total. Let's further assume 100 IP addresses per student
to deal with laptops, server, other computers, routers, etc. We're
now at 330K.

That's no where near 25% of the /8 they have. Good thing they are
announcing a /15, /16, and a /24* originated from their ASN too.

Just so we are clear, I have no idea how many servers, computers, or
other things MIT might have to justify a /8, /15, /16, and /24. I'm
just pointing out the number of students alone clearly doesn't justify
their IP space.

UCLA, where the Internet was invented, only has 5x/16 + 2x/24.
Obviously they're so much smarter they can utilize IP space better.
(No, I'm not saying that just 'cause I went to UCLA. :)

--
TTFN,
patrick

* 18.0.0.0
* 128.30.0.0/15
* 128.52.0.0
* 192.233.33.0

>> legacy class A address space just isn't that big...
>
> There is more legacy space (IANA_Registry + VARIOUS, using Geoff's
> labels) than all space allocated by the RIRs combined.
>
> Regards,
> -drc
>
>
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rs at seastrom

May 7, 2008, 5:22 PM

Post #7 of 10 (323 views)
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Re: fair warning: less than 1000 days left to IPv4 exhaustion [In reply to]

Randy Bush <randy[at]psg.com> writes:

> back office software
> ip and dns management software
> provisioning tools
> cpe
> measurement and monitoring and billing
>
> and, of course, backbone and aggregation equipment that can actually
> handle real ipv6 traffic flows with acls and chocolate syrup.

chiming in late here... the situation on the edge (been looking at a
lot of gpon gear lately) is pretty dismal.

i won't bother mentioning the vendor who claimed their igmp
implementation supported ipv6 "just fine - we're a layer 2 device;
it's plug-and-play". srsly.

---rob

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justin at justinshore

May 9, 2008, 9:05 AM

Post #8 of 10 (316 views)
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Re: fair warning: less than 1000 days left to IPv4 exhaustion [In reply to]

Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
> Let's think smaller. /16 shall we say?
>
> Like the /16 here. Originally the SRI / ARPANET SF Bay Packet Radio
> network that started back in 1977. Now controlled by a shell company
> belonging to a shell company belonging to a "high volume email
> deployer" :)
>
> http://blog.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2008/04/a_case_of_network_identity_the_1.html

Which leads me to ask an OT but slightly related question. How do other
SPs handle the blacklisting of ASNs (not prefixes but entire ASNs). The
/16 that Suresh mentioned here is being originated by a well-known spam
factory. All prefixes originating from that AS could safely be assumed
to be undesirable IMHO and can be dropped. A little Googling for that
/16 brings up a lot of good info including:

http://groups.google.com/group/news.admin.net-abuse.email/msg/5d3e3f89bb148a4c

Does anyone have any good tricks for filtering on AS path that they'd
like to share? I already have my RTBH set up so setting the next-hop
for all routes originating from a given ASN to one of my blackhole
routes (to null0, a sinkhole or srubber) would be ideal. Not accepting
the route period and letting uRPF drop traffic would be ok too.

Justin

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lists05 at equinephotoart

May 13, 2008, 11:25 AM

Post #9 of 10 (255 views)
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Re: fair warning: less than 1000 days left to IPv4 exhaustion [In reply to]

Tim Yocum wrote:

> Patrick is correct - the subscriber count is just north of 10k; likely
> far greater readership considering web archives, remailers, etc.

However... subscribership != readership. There are always many
subscribers who don't actively read every post, or every day. (I'm just
now catching up on 10 days of unread posts - it would be easy to declare
email bankruptcy and just mark it all read...) All you have to do is
post an important announcement (such as "the mailing list is moving to a
new server") and then notice how few read it to prove the truth of this
fact. :-) Also, note how few read the list's welcome message, read the
FAQ, etc.

jc

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patrick at ianai

May 13, 2008, 11:36 AM

Post #10 of 10 (254 views)
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Re: fair warning: less than 1000 days left to IPv4 exhaustion [In reply to]

On May 13, 2008, at 2:25 PM, JC Dill wrote:
> Tim Yocum wrote:
>
>> Patrick is correct - the subscriber count is just north of 10k;
>> likely
>> far greater readership considering web archives, remailers, etc.
>
> However... subscribership != readership. There are always many
> subscribers who don't actively read every post, or every day.

And there are "subscribers" which are actually exploders with many
people (mailboxes?) behind them.

Either way, it's not a small number of people / mailboxes.

--
TTFN,
patrick

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