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NXDOMAIN data needed for survey

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raydemain at gmail

Mar 20, 2008, 9:22 AM

Post #1 of 19 (1086 views)
Permalink

NXDOMAIN data needed for survey

We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey.

We prefer to receive the data on an hourly basis so it is as fresh as
possible. Our system receives the data from you via ftp that you provide.
Its hard to value the data until we have taken a look at it. As one example,
we pay a current partner $4000 per month for 100,000 records per day. If you
would like to setup a test so we can determine the value of your data please
contact me at raydemain[at]gmail.com.

Please note that if you can also bring in other partners we will pay a 10%
recurring finders fee.

Ray

hannigan at gmail

Mar 20, 2008, 9:56 AM

Post #2 of 19 (1057 views)
Permalink

Re: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey [In reply to]

On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Ray Demain wrote:
> We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey.
>
> We prefer to receive the data on an hourly basis so it is as fresh as
> possible. Our system receives the data from you via ftp that you provide.
> Its hard to value the data until we have taken a look at it. As one example,
> we pay a current partner $4000 per month for 100,000 records per day. If you
> would like to setup a test so we can determine the value of your data please
> contact me at

What company would this be for?

-M<

vixie at isc

Mar 20, 2008, 10:06 AM

Post #3 of 19 (1055 views)
Permalink

Re: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey [In reply to]

raydemain[at]gmail.com ("Ray Demain") writes:

> We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey.

your survey sounds more like an ongoing typosquatting business venture.

> We prefer to receive the data on an hourly basis so it is as fresh as
> possible. Our system receives the data from you via ftp that you
> provide. Its hard to value the data until we have taken a look at it.
> As one example, we pay a current partner $4000 per month for 100,000
> records per day. If you would like to setup a test so we can determine
> the value of your data please contact me at raydemain[at]gmail.com.
>
> Please note that if you can also bring in other partners we will pay a
> 10% recurring finders fee.

thanks for clarifying my purpose in never collecting NXDOMAIN data in ISC
SIE (see <http://sie.isc.org/>). several folks told me i was out to lunch,
but now i've got <http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/nanog/msg06810.html>
to point at.
--
Paul Vixie

michael.dillon at bt

Mar 20, 2008, 10:24 AM

Post #4 of 19 (1059 views)
Permalink

RE: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey [In reply to]

> > We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey.
>
> your survey sounds more like an ongoing typosquatting
> business venture.

Doing a Google search with the keywords
pay nxdomain data
turns up some interesting information.

--Michael Dillon

steve at blighty

Mar 20, 2008, 10:33 AM

Post #5 of 19 (1059 views)
Permalink

Re: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey [In reply to]

On Mar 20, 2008, at 9:56 AM, Martin Hannigan wrote:
>
> On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Ray Demain wrote:
>> We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey.
>>
>> We prefer to receive the data on an hourly basis so it is as fresh as
>> possible. Our system receives the data from you via ftp that you
>> provide.
>> Its hard to value the data until we have taken a look at it. As one
>> example,
>> we pay a current partner $4000 per month for 100,000 records per
>> day. If you
>> would like to setup a test so we can determine the value of your
>> data please
>> contact me at
>
>
>
>
> What company would this be for?

A domain squatting company, presumably. The same pseudonym has been
trolling web hosting forums to buy the same data today.

He's Marlon Phillips, marlon[at]mapcom.net, I'm pretty sure, though which
particular squatter company he represents, I've no idea.

Cheers,
Steve

tomb at byrneit

Mar 20, 2008, 10:45 AM

Post #6 of 19 (1059 views)
Permalink

RE: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey [In reply to]

What's even more interesting is that googling Ray Demain shows nothing,
except this message.

I'd say that M. Demain does not exist, and his money will be as real as
his on-line presence.

I always love commissions promised from entities whose revenues you
can't audit.

Never mind that the purpose of this is, most likely, to register domains
as link-farms.

I think it's best that we let David Ulevitch and the crew @ OpenDNS make
the money that is to be made off this. He's doing good while doing well.

BTW: If someone legitimate needs NXDOMAIN data, I do have a bunch.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-nanog[at]merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog[at]merit.edu] On
> Behalf Of michael.dillon[at]bt.com
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 10:25 AM
> To: nanog[at]merit.edu
> Subject: RE: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey
>
>
> > > We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey.
> >
> > your survey sounds more like an ongoing typosquatting business
> > venture.
>
> Doing a Google search with the keywords
> pay nxdomain data
> turns up some interesting information.
>
> --Michael Dillon
>

hannigan at gmail

Mar 20, 2008, 12:04 PM

Post #7 of 19 (1057 views)
Permalink

Re: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey [In reply to]

On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Steve Atkins <steve[at]blighty.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mar 20, 2008, at 9:56 AM, Martin Hannigan wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Ray Demain wrote:
> >> We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey.
> >>
> >> We prefer to receive the data on an hourly basis so it is as fresh as
> >> possible. Our system receives the data from you via ftp that you
> >> provide.
> >> Its hard to value the data until we have taken a look at it. As one
> >> example,
> >> we pay a current partner $4000 per month for 100,000 records per
> >> day. If you
> >> would like to setup a test so we can determine the value of your
> >> data please
> >> contact me at
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > What company would this be for?
>
> A domain squatting company, presumably.

Thanks, I know. I wanted to stimulate a thread that was archived for
others historical reference.

-M<

christopher.morrow at gmail

Mar 20, 2008, 12:16 PM

Post #8 of 19 (1056 views)
Permalink

Re: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey [In reply to]

On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Steve Atkins <steve[at]blighty.com> wrote:

> He's Marlon Phillips, marlon[at]mapcom.net, I'm pretty sure, though which
> particular squatter company he represents, I've no idea.

where does mapcom.net go? bizland.net ... registered through verisign
and hosted at ipowerweb? Their website (www.mapcom.net) has a
sedo-parking park-page, perhaps marlon works for sedoparking?

-Chris

steve at blighty

Mar 20, 2008, 12:22 PM

Post #9 of 19 (1057 views)
Permalink

Re: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey [In reply to]

On Mar 20, 2008, at 12:04 PM, Martin Hannigan wrote:
>
> On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Steve Atkins <steve[at]blighty.com>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 20, 2008, at 9:56 AM, Martin Hannigan wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Ray Demain wrote:
>>>> We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey.
>>>>
>>>> We prefer to receive the data on an hourly basis so it is as
>>>> fresh as
>>>> possible. Our system receives the data from you via ftp that you
>>>> provide.
>>>> Its hard to value the data until we have taken a look at it. As one
>>>> example,
>>>> we pay a current partner $4000 per month for 100,000 records per
>>>> day. If you
>>>> would like to setup a test so we can determine the value of your
>>>> data please
>>>> contact me at
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What company would this be for?
>>
>> A domain squatting company, presumably.
>
>
> Thanks, I know. I wanted to stimulate a thread that was archived for
> others historical reference.

Yeah, me too.

He's also apparently Mr Domain Investments LLC, Mr herbalclicks.com,
was typosquatting on a bunch of t-mobile domains until they took them
away from him -
http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2007/d2007-0919.html
- and was sued by Microsoft for sending CAN-SPAM violating spam to
hotmail users a couple of years back in the myauctionbiz.biz case -
http://spamkings.oreilly.com/MSFT-vs-Myauctionbizbiz.pdf .

I wonder who he's paying for his nxdomain data, and whether that
someone is authorized to sell it. It strikes me that it's just a small
step for someone with access to ISP internal data to go from selling
DNS logs to selling usernames too.

Cheers,
Steve

hannigan at gmail

Mar 20, 2008, 11:29 PM

Post #10 of 19 (1046 views)
Permalink

Re: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey [In reply to]

On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 3:22 PM, Steve Atkins <steve[at]blighty.com> wrote:

[ snip ]

> I wonder who he's paying for his nxdomain data, and whether that
> someone is authorized to sell it. It strikes me that it's just a small
> step for someone with access to ISP internal data to go from selling
> DNS logs to selling usernames too.

This is tip of the iceberg level activity. These people are exploiting
"unique identifiers" i.e. domains names and IP addresses. We need to
fear them, and respond appropriately. They are disruptive to the
Internet, to the users and commerce.

-M<

ross at kallisti

Mar 21, 2008, 8:48 AM

Post #11 of 19 (1040 views)
Permalink

Re: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey [In reply to]

On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 10:45:30AM -0700, Tomas L. Byrnes wrote:
> BTW: If someone legitimate needs NXDOMAIN data, I do have a bunch.

If anyone else is interesting in a concerted effort to provide
falsified data, I'm interested in helping and hosting.

--
Ross Vandegrift
ross[at]kallisti.us

"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who
make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians
have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine
man in the bonds of Hell."
--St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37

hannigan at gmail

Mar 21, 2008, 2:53 PM

Post #12 of 19 (1026 views)
Permalink

Re: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey [In reply to]

>
> I think it's best that we let David Ulevitch and the crew @ OpenDNS make
> the money that is to be made off this. He's doing good while doing well.

Why shouldn't anyone be able to "make the money"? The problem with
that post wasn't that he was advocating law breaking, it was that it's
a marketing missive and inconsistent with community norms, IMHO. That
doesn't mean that it's illegal, and it certainly doesn't mean it's ok
for one "good guy" to be allowed to profit and one unknown not to.
Setting classes of who can profit from NXDOMAIN data creates
unfairness in the system and it should be all or none.

What you really want to look at is privacy policy. Not all of the good
guys are actually good guys in that respect.

>
> BTW: If someone legitimate needs NXDOMAIN data, I do have a bunch.
>

How much are you charging?

-M<

billf at mu

Mar 27, 2008, 7:09 PM

Post #13 of 19 (998 views)
Permalink

Re: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey [In reply to]

[ disclaimer: i work for opendns. ]

On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 05:53:15PM -0400, Martin Hannigan wrote:
> > I think it's best that we let David Ulevitch and the crew @ OpenDNS make
> > the money that is to be made off this. He's doing good while doing well.
>
> Why shouldn't anyone be able to "make the money"? The problem with
> that post wasn't that he was advocating law breaking, it was that it's
> a marketing missive and inconsistent with community norms, IMHO. That
> doesn't mean that it's illegal, and it certainly doesn't mean it's ok
> for one "good guy" to be allowed to profit and one unknown not to.
> Setting classes of who can profit from NXDOMAIN data creates
> unfairness in the system and it should be all or none.

now that our name has been brought into this, i think it's only fair to
say: the NXDOMAIN data we know about is when a user's resolver asks our
recursive servers for a record and NXDOMAIN is the end result of what
our resolvers discover.

at that point, we optionally point you at a lander page w/ search results
and ads and all that jazz based on the words in the record you [mis-]typed.
note the optionally. if you want, we'll just return NXDOMAIN. you can
configure this. you can configure it per-ip, per-prefix, etc.

now, on to what we do or could do with that data:

we do not sell and have never sold NXDOMAIN data. nor do we register
domains based on NXDOMAIN information. the non-OpenDNS company who sees
the original request that produced the NXDOMAIN that failed (which may
or may not even be a valid hostname) is our advertising partner.

they get that data after we've transformed the original request into
their API to send to them as keywords so they may return appropriate and
relevant ads.

so, to recap:
nope, we don't sell NXDOMAIN data. we don't sell any other data either.
yes, some revenue comes from typos/mistakes. you knew that already.
yes, you can even change that behavior and just get NXDOMAIN.
that means your typos gain us nothing. you get our service for free.
yes, you opt-in to our service in the first place.
yes, we have a privacy policy that says this better than i can.

> What you really want to look at is privacy policy. Not all of the good
> guys are actually good guys in that respect.

http://www.opendns.com/privacy/

it looks pretty good to me. i read it before i agreed to employment.

-- billf >at< opendns.com // opendns network engineering

p.s. since i rarely if ever post, i have to make the shameless, shameless
plug: <peering[at]opendns.com>. we're in peeringdb too.

raydemain at gmail

Mar 28, 2008, 9:12 AM

Post #14 of 19 (996 views)
Permalink

Re: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey [In reply to]

Bill,

Isn't it funny though that OpenDNS is funded by the same group who funded
Paxfire?

www.minorventures.com

OpenDNS can be an angel on one shoulder while Paxfire is on the other,
right?

Ray

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 9:09 PM, bill fumerola <billf[at]mu.org> wrote:

>
> [ disclaimer: i work for opendns. ]
>
> On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 05:53:15PM -0400, Martin Hannigan wrote:
> > > I think it's best that we let David Ulevitch and the crew @ OpenDNS
> make
> > > the money that is to be made off this. He's doing good while doing
> well.
> >
> > Why shouldn't anyone be able to "make the money"? The problem with
> > that post wasn't that he was advocating law breaking, it was that it's
> > a marketing missive and inconsistent with community norms, IMHO. That
> > doesn't mean that it's illegal, and it certainly doesn't mean it's ok
> > for one "good guy" to be allowed to profit and one unknown not to.
> > Setting classes of who can profit from NXDOMAIN data creates
> > unfairness in the system and it should be all or none.
>
> now that our name has been brought into this, i think it's only fair to
> say: the NXDOMAIN data we know about is when a user's resolver asks our
> recursive servers for a record and NXDOMAIN is the end result of what
> our resolvers discover.
>
> at that point, we optionally point you at a lander page w/ search results
> and ads and all that jazz based on the words in the record you
> [mis-]typed.
> note the optionally. if you want, we'll just return NXDOMAIN. you can
> configure this. you can configure it per-ip, per-prefix, etc.
>
> now, on to what we do or could do with that data:
>
> we do not sell and have never sold NXDOMAIN data. nor do we register
> domains based on NXDOMAIN information. the non-OpenDNS company who sees
> the original request that produced the NXDOMAIN that failed (which may
> or may not even be a valid hostname) is our advertising partner.
>
> they get that data after we've transformed the original request into
> their API to send to them as keywords so they may return appropriate and
> relevant ads.
>
> so, to recap:
> nope, we don't sell NXDOMAIN data. we don't sell any other data either.
> yes, some revenue comes from typos/mistakes. you knew that already.
> yes, you can even change that behavior and just get NXDOMAIN.
> that means your typos gain us nothing. you get our service for free.
> yes, you opt-in to our service in the first place.
> yes, we have a privacy policy that says this better than i can.
>
> > What you really want to look at is privacy policy. Not all of the good
> > guys are actually good guys in that respect.
>
> http://www.opendns.com/privacy/
>
> it looks pretty good to me. i read it before i agreed to employment.
>
> -- billf >at< opendns.com // opendns network engineering
>
> p.s. since i rarely if ever post, i have to make the shameless, shameless
> plug: <peering[at]opendns.com>. we're in peeringdb too.
>
>
>
>

davidu at everydns

Mar 28, 2008, 9:29 AM

Post #15 of 19 (993 views)
Permalink

Re: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey [In reply to]

Ray Demain wrote:

> Isn't it funny though that OpenDNS is funded by the same group who
> funded Paxfire?

It might seem weird to you, but it's very common. Once VC has done the
due diligence in a space they are more likely to invest in another
company doing something in a related space, for better or worse.

> OpenDNS can be an angel on one shoulder while Paxfire is on the other,
> right?

Your inference is unfounded.

-David Ulevitch

ps: End of this thread for me. It was dumb to begin with and despite
the flaming, I'm sure a bunch of netops wrote back to the guy offering
to sell NXDOMAIN data. Giving it more airtime is a waste of bits.

tomb at byrneit

Mar 28, 2008, 10:04 AM

Post #16 of 19 (1000 views)
Permalink

RE: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey [In reply to]

What's more funny is that googling "Ray Demain" only brings up lots of
posts from you looking for NXDOMAIN data.

What's your real name? Who do YOU work for? Who funds that company?

Before you go accusing others of subterfuge and conspiracy, be up front
about who you are, what you're about, and what you plan on doing with
the data.

________________________________

From: owner-nanog[at]merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog[at]merit.edu] On
Behalf Of Ray Demain
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 9:13 AM
To: nanog[at]merit.edu
Subject: Re: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey

Bill,

Isn't it funny though that OpenDNS is funded by the same group
who funded Paxfire?

www.minorventures.com

OpenDNS can be an angel on one shoulder while Paxfire is on the
other, right?

Ray

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 9:09 PM, bill fumerola <billf[at]mu.org>
wrote:

[ disclaimer: i work for opendns. ]

On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 05:53:15PM -0400, Martin
Hannigan wrote:
> > I think it's best that we let David Ulevitch and
the crew @ OpenDNS make
> > the money that is to be made off this. He's doing
good while doing well.
>
> Why shouldn't anyone be able to "make the money"? The
problem with
> that post wasn't that he was advocating law breaking,
it was that it's
> a marketing missive and inconsistent with community
norms, IMHO. That
> doesn't mean that it's illegal, and it certainly
doesn't mean it's ok
> for one "good guy" to be allowed to profit and one
unknown not to.
> Setting classes of who can profit from NXDOMAIN data
creates
> unfairness in the system and it should be all or none.

now that our name has been brought into this, i think
it's only fair to
say: the NXDOMAIN data we know about is when a user's
resolver asks our
recursive servers for a record and NXDOMAIN is the end
result of what
our resolvers discover.

at that point, we optionally point you at a lander page
w/ search results
and ads and all that jazz based on the words in the
record you [mis-]typed.
note the optionally. if you want, we'll just return
NXDOMAIN. you can
configure this. you can configure it per-ip, per-prefix,
etc.

now, on to what we do or could do with that data:

we do not sell and have never sold NXDOMAIN data. nor do
we register
domains based on NXDOMAIN information. the non-OpenDNS
company who sees
the original request that produced the NXDOMAIN that
failed (which may
or may not even be a valid hostname) is our advertising
partner.

they get that data after we've transformed the original
request into
their API to send to them as keywords so they may return
appropriate and
relevant ads.

so, to recap:
nope, we don't sell NXDOMAIN data. we don't sell any
other data either.
yes, some revenue comes from typos/mistakes. you knew
that already.
yes, you can even change that behavior and just get
NXDOMAIN.
that means your typos gain us nothing. you get our
service for free.
yes, you opt-in to our service in the first place.
yes, we have a privacy policy that says this better than
i can.

> What you really want to look at is privacy policy. Not
all of the good
> guys are actually good guys in that respect.

http://www.opendns.com/privacy/

it looks pretty good to me. i read it before i agreed to
employment.

-- billf >at< opendns.com // opendns network engineering

p.s. since i rarely if ever post, i have to make the
shameless, shameless
plug: <peering[at]opendns.com>. we're in peeringdb too.

surfer at mauigateway

Mar 28, 2008, 2:25 PM

Post #17 of 19 (976 views)
Permalink

Re: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey [In reply to]

----------------------------------
[...]the flaming, I'm sure a bunch of netops wrote
back to the guy offering to sell NXDOMAIN data.
----------------------------------

Why would you assume this? That wouldn't be my first assumption after reading the thread. I would assume folks would Do The Right Thing.

scott

hannigan at gmail

Mar 28, 2008, 8:51 PM

Post #18 of 19 (979 views)
Permalink

Re: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey [In reply to]

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 10:09 PM, bill fumerola <billf[at]mu.org> wrote:
> [ disclaimer: i work for opendns. ]
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 05:53:15PM -0400, Martin Hannigan wrote:

[ snip ]

> so, to recap:
> nope, we don't sell NXDOMAIN data. we don't sell any other data either.

I don't think that policy includes derivative works. If you are saying
that you don't sell any data at all, feel free to say that.

-M<

Valdis.Kletnieks at vt

Mar 30, 2008, 8:13 PM

Post #19 of 19 (972 views)
Permalink

Re: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey [In reply to]

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 14:25:22 PDT, Scott Weeks said:

> Why would you assume this? That wouldn't be my first assumption after
> reading the thread. I would assume folks would Do The Right Thing.

There is no Right Thing that is *so* obviously right that some significant
fraction of the community will refuse to do it anyhow. Witness the flame-fests
we have regarding ingress/egress filtering, BGP prefix filtering/validation,
harboring spammers and other similar low-lifes, and so on...

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