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frnkblk at iname

Mar 12, 2008, 1:06 PM

Post #1 of 31 (3984 views)
Permalink

IPv6 on SOHO routers?

Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask.

I'm attending an "Emerging Communications" course where the instructor
stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6, pointing to
Asia specifically.

Do Linksys, D-Link, Netgear, etc. have such software for the Asian markets?

Furthermore, he stated that networking equipment companies like Cisco will
be moving away from IPv4 in 5 years or so. This is the first time I've
heard this posited -- I had a hard believing that, but he claims it with
some authority. Anyone hear anything like this? My own opinion is that
we'll see dual-stack for at least a decade or two to come.

Frank

joelja at bogus

Mar 12, 2008, 1:22 PM

Post #2 of 31 (3932 views)
Permalink

Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers? [In reply to]

Frank Bulk - iNAME wrote:
> Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask.
>
> I'm attending an "Emerging Communications" course where the instructor
> stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6, pointing to
> Asia specifically.
>
> Do Linksys, D-Link, Netgear, etc. have such software for the Asian markets?

Get yourself a copy of ipv6style magazine.

http://www.ipv6style.jp

The answer is yes.

> Furthermore, he stated that networking equipment companies like Cisco will
> be moving away from IPv4 in 5 years or so. This is the first time I've
> heard this posited -- I had a hard believing that, but he claims it with
> some authority. Anyone hear anything like this? My own opinion is that
> we'll see dual-stack for at least a decade or two to come.

That's to say, if you're projecting a particular tipping point in ipv4
vs ipv6 usability then sure that's plausible. there are plenty of
divergent opinions on the subject.

> Frank
>

jabley at ca

Mar 12, 2008, 1:27 PM

Post #3 of 31 (3936 views)
Permalink

Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers? [In reply to]

On 12-Mar-2008, at 16:06, Frank Bulk - iNAME wrote:

> Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask.
>
> I'm attending an "Emerging Communications" course where the instructor
> stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6,
> pointing to
> Asia specifically.
>
> Do Linksys, D-Link, Netgear, etc. have such software for the Asian
> markets?

I seem to think I've seen SOHO routers (or "gateways" I suppose,
assuming that these boxes are rarely simply routers) on display at
beer'n'gear-type venues at APRICOT meetings, going back several years.
The glossy pamphlets have long since been discarded, so I can't tell
you names of vendors.

More mainstream for this market, Apple's airport extreme "SOHO router"
does IPv6.

http://www.apple.com/airportextreme/specs.html

I have not had the time to figure out what "does IPv6" means, exactly
(DHCPv6? IPv6 DNS resolver?) but I seem to think it will provide route
advertisements and route out either using 6to4 or a manually-
configured tunnel.

Joe

drc at virtualized

Mar 12, 2008, 1:38 PM

Post #4 of 31 (4005 views)
Permalink

Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers? [In reply to]

On Mar 12, 2008, at 1:06 PM, Frank Bulk - iNAME wrote:
> Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask.
>
> I'm attending an "Emerging Communications" course where the instructor
> stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6,

<http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=33DD138B&fnode=home/shop_mac/mac_accessories/networking&nplm=MB053LL/A
>

There are a couple of other boxes I noticed recently at Fry's (in the
SF Bay Area) that claimed IPv6 support on the box, but I have no idea
how real those claims are.

> Furthermore, he stated that networking equipment companies like
> Cisco will
> be moving away from IPv4 in 5 years or so. This is the first time
> I've
> heard this posited -- I had a hard believing that, but he claims it
> with
> some authority. Anyone hear anything like this? My own opinion is
> that
> we'll see dual-stack for at least a decade or two to come.

I suspect you should back away slowly from anyone who suggests IPv4 is
going to go away within 5 years.

Regards,
-drc

bicknell at ufp

Mar 12, 2008, 1:38 PM

Post #5 of 31 (3940 views)
Permalink

Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers? [In reply to]

In a message written on Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 03:06:24PM -0500, Frank Bulk - iNAME wrote:
> Furthermore, he stated that networking equipment companies like Cisco will
> be moving away from IPv4 in 5 years or so. This is the first time I've
> heard this posited -- I had a hard believing that, but he claims it with
> some authority. Anyone hear anything like this? My own opinion is that
> we'll see dual-stack for at least a decade or two to come.

ISP's are very good at one thing, driving out unnecessary cost.
Running dual stack increases cost. While I'm not sure about the 5
year part, I'm sure ISP's will move to disable IPv4 support as soon
as the market will let them as a cost saving measure. Runing for
"decades" dual stacked does not make a lot of economic sense for
all involved.

--
Leo Bicknell - bicknell[at]ufp.org - CCIE 3440
PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/

jordi.palet at consulintel

Mar 12, 2008, 1:56 PM

Post #6 of 31 (3934 views)
Permalink

Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers? [In reply to]

Yes, there are many. Take a look at www.ipv6-to-standard.org

Regards,
Jordi

> De: Frank Bulk - iNAME <frnkblk[at]iname.com>
> Responder a: <frnkblk[at]iname.com>
> Fecha: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:06:24 -0500
> Para: <nanog[at]merit.edu>
> Asunto: IPv6 on SOHO routers?
>
>
> Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask.
>
> I'm attending an "Emerging Communications" course where the instructor
> stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6, pointing to
> Asia specifically.
>
> Do Linksys, D-Link, Netgear, etc. have such software for the Asian markets?
>
> Furthermore, he stated that networking equipment companies like Cisco will
> be moving away from IPv4 in 5 years or so. This is the first time I've
> heard this posited -- I had a hard believing that, but he claims it with
> some authority. Anyone hear anything like this? My own opinion is that
> we'll see dual-stack for at least a decade or two to come.
>
> Frank
>

**********************************************
The IPv6 Portal: http://www.ipv6tf.org

Bye 6Bone. Hi, IPv6 !
http://www.ipv6day.org

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.

John at internetassociatesllc

Mar 12, 2008, 2:28 PM

Post #7 of 31 (3927 views)
Permalink

RE: IPv6 on SOHO routers? [In reply to]

If history is any guide the last Cisco boxes I worked on supported various flavors of SDLC and pre-SNA IBM comm, DECnet and DECnet LAT, IPX, Burroughs, poll select and the only protocol they do not still support is CorvisNet on twisted pair. Some of these protocols have not seen the light of day since when?

What is a Good CCIE test without arcane SDLC, HDLC and DECnet protocol questions.

Most SOHO routers use standard or proprietary silicon to do the IP stack or IP route assist and when the silicon is available for dual stack in quantity 10,000 units or more at a reasonable price the SOHO routers will support both.

IMHO before Linksys was owned by Cisco, I liked Netgear because there code was from Bay networks and had better routing. Finally, when I bought the expensive $ 150.00 routers with integral VPN support that was neat.

What I would like to see today is SOHO routers that do not interfere with 6 over 4 transport since my ISP does not offer home DSL termination of v6. Taking the silicon in a SOHO and adding 5 to 10 $ US in cost for v6 and multiple that by 5 to get a retail price of those features. Then offset that with the decrease in silicon size when you add both together with smaller size lines and transistors on the chips, I would project SOHO prices of 250 - 350 $ US to start with for v4 & v6 and dropping from there.

John (ISDN) Lee

________________________________

From: owner-nanog[at]merit.edu on behalf of Frank Bulk - iNAME
Sent: Wed 3/12/2008 4:06 PM
To: nanog[at]merit.edu
Subject: IPv6 on SOHO routers?

Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask.

I'm attending an "Emerging Communications" course where the instructor
stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6, pointing to
Asia specifically.

Do Linksys, D-Link, Netgear, etc. have such software for the Asian markets?

Furthermore, he stated that networking equipment companies like Cisco will
be moving away from IPv4 in 5 years or so. This is the first time I've
heard this posited -- I had a hard believing that, but he claims it with
some authority. Anyone hear anything like this? My own opinion is that
we'll see dual-stack for at least a decade or two to come.

Frank

ops.lists at gmail

Mar 12, 2008, 2:30 PM

Post #8 of 31 (4009 views)
Permalink

Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers? [In reply to]

I seem to remember something about Earthlink rolling out v6 enabled
wifi routers to its customers (linksys with a hacked up firmware
that'd create a v6 tunnel between the cpe and an elnk tunnelbroker) ..
what happened to that interesting little product? Killed off and the
few remaining users grandfathered?

srs

On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 1:36 AM, Frank Bulk - iNAME <frnkblk[at]iname.com> wrote:
>
> Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask.
>
> I'm attending an "Emerging Communications" course where the instructor
> stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6, pointing to
> Asia specifically.
>

giulianocm at uol

Mar 12, 2008, 2:30 PM

Post #9 of 31 (3936 views)
Permalink

Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers? [In reply to]

Frank,

Juniper Networks Does support IPv6 in J-Series Routers and SSG Firewalls:

http://www.juniper.net/products_and_services/j_series_services_routers/

http://www.juniper.net/products_and_services/ex_series/index.html

http://www.juniper.net/products_and_services/firewall_slash_ipsec_vpn/index.html

http://www.juniper.net/federal/IPv6/

SSG-5 and SSG-20 does support it after Screenos 6.1 ... for small office
business.

Other vendor like Fortinet is supporting IPv6 in SOHO equipment too.

Att,

Giuliano

> Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask.
>
> I'm attending an "Emerging Communications" course where the instructor
> stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6, pointing to
> Asia specifically.
>
> Do Linksys, D-Link, Netgear, etc. have such software for the Asian markets?
>
> Furthermore, he stated that networking equipment companies like Cisco will
> be moving away from IPv4 in 5 years or so. This is the first time I've
> heard this posited -- I had a hard believing that, but he claims it with
> some authority. Anyone hear anything like this? My own opinion is that
> we'll see dual-stack for at least a decade or two to come.
>
> Frank
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 2942 (20080312) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>

swmike at swm

Mar 12, 2008, 3:35 PM

Post #10 of 31 (3934 views)
Permalink

RE: IPv6 on SOHO routers? [In reply to]

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008, John Lee wrote:

> What I would like to see today is SOHO routers that do not interfere
> with 6 over 4 transport since my ISP does not offer home DSL termination
> of v6. Taking the silicon in a SOHO and adding 5 to 10 $ US in cost for
> v6 and multiple that by 5 to get a retail price of those features. Then
> offset that with the decrease in silicon size when you add both together
> with smaller size lines and transistors on the chips, I would project
> SOHO prices of 250 - 350 $ US to start with for v4 & v6 and dropping
> from there.

OpenWRT which actually supports IPv6 (by virtue of being linux based) can
be run on very cheap devices (as most smaller home NAT-gateways are
CPU based, no biggie), I suspect IPv6 on most of these is only a matter of
someone actually putting it in their RFQ and be willing to pay a few $
extra per unit when buying the normal large telco volumes.

Running code is out there, it's just a matter of getting it into the
devices.

The smaller SOHO routers that cisco has (800 and 1800 series) are quite
ready for this, 12.4T even has support for DHCPv6 prefix delegation on the
878 for instance (it was the only one I checked in the software advisor).

--
Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike[at]swm.pp.se

Valdis.Kletnieks at vt

Mar 12, 2008, 6:00 PM

Post #11 of 31 (3932 views)
Permalink

Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers? [In reply to]

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:06:24 CDT, Frank Bulk - iNAME said:
> Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask.
>
> I'm attending an "Emerging Communications" course where the instructor
> stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6, pointing to
> Asia specifically.

Well, of *course* you're more likely to find such SOHO routers in markets where
a SOHO router owner might actually be able to use the feature. But in most
parts of the US, IPv6 support in a SOHO router is right up there with GOSIP
compliance as far as actual usefulness goes...

newton at internode

Mar 12, 2008, 6:11 PM

Post #12 of 31 (3916 views)
Permalink

Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers? [In reply to]

On 13/03/2008, at 11:30 AM, Valdis.Kletnieks[at]vt.edu wrote:

> On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:06:24 CDT, Frank Bulk - iNAME said:
>> Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask.
>>
>> I'm attending an "Emerging Communications" course where the
>> instructor
>> stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6,
>> pointing to
>> Asia specifically.
>
> Well, of *course* you're more likely to find such SOHO routers in
> markets where
> a SOHO router owner might actually be able to use the feature. But
> in most
> parts of the US, IPv6 support in a SOHO router is right up there
> with GOSIP
> compliance as far as actual usefulness goes...

Yup. If you look at the devices claimed to be IPv6 CPE in Asian
markets, they're inevitably Ethernet-only, to be used on networks
where the customer is provided with an Ethernet jack in their home
or apartment complex.

Those of us who use ADSL or (heaven forbid) Cable are kinda out of luck.
I haven't yet found ADSL2+ CPE that does IPv6 over PPPoE or PPPoA out
of the box.

(Billion in Taiwan has a device which they've stamped an "IPv6 Ready"
sticker onto, but the IPv6 version of the software hasn't left the
confines of their lab yet)

As far as I've been able to determine, IPv6 SOHO CPE is largely
vaporware right now. And lets not even get started on residential
grade CPE, that doesn't even appear to be on most vendors' radar
_at all_. If anything useful is going to happen in this space,
my guess is that it'll be with custom Linux firmware running on
a LinkSys blob with no vendor support.

- mark

--
Mark Newton Email: newton[at]internode.com.au
(W)
Network Engineer Email:
newton[at]atdot.dotat.org (H)
Internode Systems Pty Ltd Desk: +61-8-82282999
"Network Man" - Anagram of "Mark Newton" Mobile: +61-416-202-223

frnkblk at iname

Mar 12, 2008, 7:43 PM

Post #13 of 31 (3922 views)
Permalink

RE: IPv6 on SOHO routers? [In reply to]

I must be blind, but I don't recognize any brands there that support IPv6
(besides the Apple Airport). I see the Linksys WRT54G, but I don't know
where they find the validation for IPv6 support, unless they mean DD-WRT.

Based on all the responses I received on and off list, it appears, that as
far as name brands recognized in the U.S., only Apple makes a SOHO router
that support IPv6.

Frank

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-nanog[at]merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog[at]merit.edu] On Behalf Of
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 3:56 PM
To: nanog[at]merit.edu
Subject: Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers?

Yes, there are many. Take a look at www.ipv6-to-standard.org

Regards,
Jordi

> De: Frank Bulk - iNAME <frnkblk[at]iname.com>
> Responder a: <frnkblk[at]iname.com>
> Fecha: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:06:24 -0500
> Para: <nanog[at]merit.edu>
> Asunto: IPv6 on SOHO routers?
>
>
> Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask.
>
> I'm attending an "Emerging Communications" course where the instructor
> stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6, pointing to
> Asia specifically.
>
> Do Linksys, D-Link, Netgear, etc. have such software for the Asian
markets?
>
> Furthermore, he stated that networking equipment companies like Cisco will
> be moving away from IPv4 in 5 years or so. This is the first time I've
> heard this posited -- I had a hard believing that, but he claims it with
> some authority. Anyone hear anything like this? My own opinion is that
> we'll see dual-stack for at least a decade or two to come.
>
> Frank
>

**********************************************
The IPv6 Portal: http://www.ipv6tf.org

Bye 6Bone. Hi, IPv6 !
http://www.ipv6day.org

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the
individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware
that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
information, including attached files, is prohibited.

frnkblk at iname

Mar 12, 2008, 10:52 PM

Post #14 of 31 (3915 views)
Permalink

RE: IPv6 on SOHO routers? [In reply to]

Looks like there's some kind of wiki here, too:

http://www.getipv6.info/index.php/Broadband_CPE

Frank

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-nanog[at]merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog[at]merit.edu] On Behalf Of
Frank Bulk - iNAME
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 3:06 PM
To: nanog[at]merit.edu
Subject: IPv6 on SOHO routers?

Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask.

I'm attending an "Emerging Communications" course where the instructor
stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6, pointing to
Asia specifically.

Do Linksys, D-Link, Netgear, etc. have such software for the Asian markets?

Furthermore, he stated that networking equipment companies like Cisco will
be moving away from IPv4 in 5 years or so. This is the first time I've
heard this posited -- I had a hard believing that, but he claims it with
some authority. Anyone hear anything like this? My own opinion is that
we'll see dual-stack for at least a decade or two to come.

Frank

frnkblk at iname

Mar 12, 2008, 10:57 PM

Post #15 of 31 (3919 views)
Permalink

RE: IPv6 on SOHO routers? [In reply to]

And it looks like the Buffalo WZR-AG300NH claims support, too:
http://www.buffalotech.com/files/products/wzr-ag300nh_DS.pdf

I don't consider Buffalo a tier 1 or 2 SOHO vendor, but they're still on my
top-ten list for SOHO networking vendors.

Regards,

Frank

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-nanog[at]merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog[at]merit.edu] On Behalf Of
Frank Bulk - iNAME
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 3:06 PM
To: nanog[at]merit.edu
Subject: IPv6 on SOHO routers?

Slightly off-topic, but tangentially related that I'll dare to ask.

I'm attending an "Emerging Communications" course where the instructor
stated that there are SOHO routers that natively support IPv6, pointing to
Asia specifically.

Do Linksys, D-Link, Netgear, etc. have such software for the Asian markets?

Furthermore, he stated that networking equipment companies like Cisco will
be moving away from IPv4 in 5 years or so. This is the first time I've
heard this posited -- I had a hard believing that, but he claims it with
some authority. Anyone hear anything like this? My own opinion is that
we'll see dual-stack for at least a decade or two to come.

Frank

mmc at internode

Mar 12, 2008, 11:07 PM

Post #16 of 31 (3917 views)
Permalink

Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers? [In reply to]

The only ADSL one listed "Billion 7402R2" doesn't _actually_ do IPv6
yet, but it might if they release software for it!
Which would be nice as we sell them to customers and would love to
magically turn on IPv6 to them one day.

The only IPv6 ADSL router I'm aware of, that I can buy in Australia, is
the Cisco 857/877 series (which work quite nicely I have to say :-)
(Some earlier Cisco 800 series ADSL routers will work, but aren't
currently available).

A friend of mine who works for a company that owns another company that
sells consumer CPE said "Well, this is a volume business. Why release a
feature that isn't being demanded much yet, when we could do it later
and sell you ANOTHER CPE to replace the one you just bought?".

Bah. And people wonder why I'm cynical.

MMC

Frank Bulk - iNAME wrote:
> Looks like there's some kind of wiki here, too:
>
> http://www.getipv6.info/index.php/Broadband_CPE
>
> Frank
>
--
Matthew Moyle-Croft - Internode/Agile - Networks
Level 5, 150 Grenfell Street, Adelaide, SA 5000 Australia
Email: mmc[at]internode.com.au Web: http://www.on.net
Direct: +61-8-8228-2909 Mobile: +61-419-900-366
Reception: +61-8-8228-2999 Fax: +61-8-8235-6909

"The difficulty lies, not in the new ideas,
but in escaping from the old ones" - John Maynard Keynes

streiner at cluebyfour

Mar 12, 2008, 11:19 PM

Post #17 of 31 (3921 views)
Permalink

Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers? [In reply to]

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008, Matthew Moyle-Croft wrote:

> A friend of mine who works for a company that owns another company that sells
> consumer CPE said "Well, this is a volume business. Why release a feature
> that isn't being demanded much yet, when we could do it later and sell you
> ANOTHER CPE to replace the one you just bought?".

While it doesn't quality as out-of-the-box v6 support, a Linksys WRT54G
with a replacement image like Sveasoft Talisman does claim to support it.

I haven't tested it yet on a guinea pig WRT54G, but I'll get around to
that at some point soon :)

jms

mmc at internode

Mar 12, 2008, 11:34 PM

Post #18 of 31 (3920 views)
Permalink

Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers? [In reply to]

Justin M. Streiner wrote:
>
> On Thu, 13 Mar 2008, Matthew Moyle-Croft wrote:
>
>> A friend of mine who works for a company that owns another company
>> that sells consumer CPE said "Well, this is a volume business. Why
>> release a feature that isn't being demanded much yet, when we could
>> do it later and sell you ANOTHER CPE to replace the one you just
>> bought?".
>
> While it doesn't quality as out-of-the-box v6 support, a Linksys
> WRT54G with a replacement image like Sveasoft Talisman does claim to
> support it.
Yeah - not quite the issue - I've got a Cisco 877 at home and am running
dual stack natively at home. But I'm not a typical customer.

But really, we need to start seeing some CPE, even in beta form, so we
can start working through how a transition to IPv6 might work.
(eg. customer local networks, SIP for VOIP, stateful firewalls (given
the anti-NAT-brigade have made it the only solution - don't get me
started about how low end CPE stateful firewalls suck).

Customers tend to keep their CPE for a few years. That means customers
buying now will still have it in 2010.

MMC
>
> I haven't tested it yet on a guinea pig WRT54G, but I'll get around to
> that at some point soon :)
>
> jms

--
Matthew Moyle-Croft - Internode/Agile - Networks
Level 5, 150 Grenfell Street, Adelaide, SA 5000 Australia
Email: mmc[at]internode.com.au Web: http://www.on.net
Direct: +61-8-8228-2909 Mobile: +61-419-900-366
Reception: +61-8-8228-2999 Fax: +61-8-8235-6909

"The difficulty lies, not in the new ideas,
but in escaping from the old ones" - John Maynard Keynes

mohacsi at niif

Mar 13, 2008, 12:47 AM

Post #19 of 31 (3922 views)
Permalink

Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers? [In reply to]

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008, Matthew Moyle-Croft wrote:

>
> The only ADSL one listed "Billion 7402R2" doesn't _actually_ do IPv6 yet, but
> it might if they release software for it!
> Which would be nice as we sell them to customers and would love to magically
> turn on IPv6 to them one day.
>
> The only IPv6 ADSL router I'm aware of, that I can buy in Australia, is the
> Cisco 857/877 series (which work quite nicely I have to say :-)
> (Some earlier Cisco 800 series ADSL routers will work, but aren't currently
> available).

Actually Cisco 850 series does not support IPv6, only 870 series. We
tested earlier cisco models also: 830 series has ipv6 support. My
colleague tested NetScreen routers: apart for the smallest devices they
have IPv6 support. However I think these devices are not consumer
equipments. I would call SO (Small Office) devices. The HO (home office)
devices are the ~ 50-100 USD devices - you rarely see official ipv6
support.....

Janos Mohacsi
Network Engineer, Research Associate, Head of Network Planning and Projects
NIIF/HUNGARNET, HUNGARY
Key 70EF9882: DEC2 C685 1ED4 C95A 145F 4300 6F64 7B00 70EF 9882

>
> A friend of mine who works for a company that owns another company that sells
> consumer CPE said "Well, this is a volume business. Why release a feature
> that isn't being demanded much yet, when we could do it later and sell you
> ANOTHER CPE to replace the one you just bought?".
>
> Bah. And people wonder why I'm cynical.
>
> MMC
>
> Frank Bulk - iNAME wrote:
>> Looks like there's some kind of wiki here, too:
>>
>> http://www.getipv6.info/index.php/Broadband_CPE
>>
>> Frank
>>
> --
> Matthew Moyle-Croft - Internode/Agile - Networks
> Level 5, 150 Grenfell Street, Adelaide, SA 5000 Australia
> Email: mmc[at]internode.com.au Web: http://www.on.net
> Direct: +61-8-8228-2909 Mobile: +61-419-900-366
> Reception: +61-8-8228-2999 Fax: +61-8-8235-6909
>
> "The difficulty lies, not in the new ideas, but in escaping from the
> old ones" - John Maynard Keynes
>
>

joelja at bogus

Mar 13, 2008, 6:47 AM

Post #20 of 31 (3915 views)
Permalink

Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers? [In reply to]

Mark Newton wrote:

> Those of us who use ADSL or (heaven forbid) Cable are kinda out of luck.
> I haven't yet found ADSL2+ CPE that does IPv6 over PPPoE or PPPoA out
> of the box.

Any cablelebs certified docsis 3.0 CM or CMTS supports ipv6.

Your cable provider will have to upgrade their CMTS (line card swap)
before you can leverage it directly on the cable in a consumer environment.

DSL aggregation routers are challenge where again equipment lifecycle
plays in to whether you're in a position to deploy.

> (Billion in Taiwan has a device which they've stamped an "IPv6 Ready"
> sticker onto, but the IPv6 version of the software hasn't left the
> confines of their lab yet)
>
> As far as I've been able to determine, IPv6 SOHO CPE is largely
> vaporware right now. And lets not even get started on residential
> grade CPE, that doesn't even appear to be on most vendors' radar
> _at all_. If anything useful is going to happen in this space,
> my guess is that it'll be with custom Linux firmware running on
> a LinkSys blob with no vendor support.
>
>
> - mark
>
>
> --
> Mark Newton Email:
> newton[at]internode.com.au (W)
> Network Engineer Email:
> newton[at]atdot.dotat.org (H)
> Internode Systems Pty Ltd Desk: +61-8-82282999
> "Network Man" - Anagram of "Mark Newton" Mobile: +61-416-202-223
>
>
>
>
>

mrp at mrp

Mar 13, 2008, 7:05 AM

Post #21 of 31 (3912 views)
Permalink

Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers? [In reply to]

Matthew Moyle-Croft wrote:
>
> The only ADSL one listed "Billion 7402R2" doesn't _actually_ do IPv6
> yet, but it might if they release software for it!
> Which would be nice as we sell them to customers and would love to
> magically turn on IPv6 to them one day.

Hi MMC,

You might want to contribute to
<http://au.billion.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10042>

and suggest to them that Internode wants this release for their customers.

Mark.

acb at acb

Mar 13, 2008, 11:34 AM

Post #22 of 31 (3916 views)
Permalink

Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers? [In reply to]

Leo Bicknell wrote:
> In a message written on Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 03:06:24PM -0500, Frank Bulk - iNAME wrote:
>> Furthermore, he stated that networking equipment companies like Cisco will
>> be moving away from IPv4 in 5 years or so. This is the first time I've
>> heard this posited -- I had a hard believing that, but he claims it with
>> some authority. Anyone hear anything like this? My own opinion is that
>> we'll see dual-stack for at least a decade or two to come.
>
> ISP's are very good at one thing, driving out unnecessary cost.
> Running dual stack increases cost. While I'm not sure about the 5
> year part, I'm sure ISP's will move to disable IPv4 support as soon
> as the market will let them as a cost saving measure. Runing for
> "decades" dual stacked does not make a lot of economic sense for
> all involved.
>

labels in the core, for a long while.

This transition will be about as smooth as the US moving to the metric
system. (e.g. everyone buys soda in two liter bottles, wine in 750ml
bottles, but can't mentally buy liters of gasoline....or 1.1826 liters
of beer, aka 'forty').

Same could be said for the Auto Industry. Thank [some dead
mathematician] that 3/4" lug nuts are also 19mm or we'd really be
screwed :-)

No flag day here (I would pay serious money to see that happen though,
it would be a total riot from the get go). There is some interesting
movement in the US in particular to put up 'enough' v6 window dressing
to be compliant with US gov't contracts and so on which will match up
with the OMB [unfunded] mandate to be IPv6 compatible by this june.

As for the SOHO, not sure if anything other the next chip revision and
firmware are needed. Besides, will they be NAT boxen with a dozen
application layer gateway helpers like today? Or will they be actual
firewalls. Hard to say which is more difficult or code complex. With the
pace of silicon replacement in SOHO product lines, the next silicon spin
could do the either stack or both for the same cost.

best regards,
andy

petri at helenius

Mar 13, 2008, 3:12 PM

Post #23 of 31 (3914 views)
Permalink

Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers? [In reply to]

Mohacsi Janos wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 13 Mar 2008, Matthew Moyle-Croft wrote:
>
>>
>
> Actually Cisco 850 series does not support IPv6, only 870 series. We
> tested earlier cisco models also: 830 series has ipv6 support. My
> colleague tested NetScreen routers: apart for the smallest devices
> they have IPv6 support. However I think these devices are not consumer
> equipments. I would call SO (Small Office) devices. The HO (home
> office) devices are the ~ 50-100 USD devices - you rarely see official
> ipv6 support.....
>
The IPv6 "support" on 87x Cisco is nothing to write home about. It's
not supported on most physical interfaces that exist on the devices. But
it does work over tunnel interfaces if you have something on your lan to
tunnel to.

Pete

mksmith at adhost

Mar 13, 2008, 3:25 PM

Post #24 of 31 (3920 views)
Permalink

RE: IPv6 on SOHO routers? [In reply to]

> >
> The IPv6 "support" on 87x Cisco is nothing to write home about. It's
> not supported on most physical interfaces that exist on the devices.
> But
> it does work over tunnel interfaces if you have something on your lan
> to
> tunnel to.
>
> Pete

It's not that bad. You can attach a v6 address to the 802.11 interface and the FastEthernet interface, but you can't put one on a BVI which means you need two /64's if you want v6 on wireless and wired.

Regards,

Mike

Attachments:

PGP.sig (0.46 KB)

petri at helenius

Mar 13, 2008, 3:49 PM

Post #25 of 31 (3923 views)
Permalink

Re: IPv6 on SOHO routers? [In reply to]

Michael K. Smith - Adhost wrote:
>
> It's not that bad. You can attach a v6 address to the 802.11 interface and the FastEthernet interface, but you can't put one on a BVI which means you need two /64's if you want v6 on wireless and wired.
>
That workaround does not work on the models with the 4 port switch
integrated. (running 12.4T)

Pete

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