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geoff.scott.mail at gmail

Oct 29, 2004, 2:42 PM

Post #1 of 38 (2085 views)
Permalink

OT: Zap2it Labs Email

Received from Zap2it Labs today.

------------------------------------------------
An Open Letter to the Zap2it Labs Community:

We at Tribune Media Services and Zap2it.com have been privileged to
offer a TV listings service to the open source and freeware
communities so that the many innovations in electronic program guides,
digital video recorders, and recommendation engines could continue to
flourish. This free-of-charge service is at risk, however, due to the
actions of several businesses seeking to exploit our generosity so
that they can make greater profits.

When you signed up for Zap2it Labs, you agreed to a contract that
states the service is available for non-commercial, personal use only.
A few commercial entities have chosen to ignore these contractual
terms in order to receive television listings without paying. We know
who these entities are; you know who they are.

These violations must end.

If you purchased a hardware or software product that receives its
television listings from Zap2it Labs' DataDirect or, indirectly,
through XMLTV, you may be violating our contract. It is critical that
you and your vendor abide by our contractual terms, lest everyone
suffer the consequences.

If you have any questions about this issue, or suggestions for how to
ameliorate the situation, please feel free to contact us at
mailto:labs[at]zap2it.com

Sincerely,

Jay R. Brodsky
VP/Technology
Tribune Media Services

-----------------------------------------------------

Well, they may know who the violators are, but I don't.

And since I'm not smart enough to know who the violators are, I'm
probably not smart enough to form my own opinion about this letter.
Do I agree with Zap2it and demand some heads be place on some very
large pikes, or do I start scanning for black helicopters and run
around yelling that Zap2it will start charging us because of the
"violators"?

Geoff

grante at visi

Oct 29, 2004, 2:52 PM

Post #2 of 38 (2057 views)
Permalink

Re: OT: Zap2it Labs Email [In reply to]

On Fri, Oct 29, 2004 at 02:42:34PM -0700, Geoff Scott wrote:

> Received from Zap2it Labs today.

[...]

I imagine a lot of us got that.

> Well, they may know who the violators are, but I don't.

I was wondering if anybody here knew who/what upset TMS?

> And since I'm not smart enough to know who the violators are, I'm
> probably not smart enough to form my own opinion about this letter.
> Do I agree with Zap2it and demand some heads be place on some very
> large pikes, or do I start scanning for black helicopters and run
> around yelling that Zap2it will start charging us because of the
> "violators"?

I'm not sure if either one will be all that useful.

--
Grant Edwards
grante[at]visi.com

t.tait at comcast

Oct 29, 2004, 3:10 PM

Post #3 of 38 (2063 views)
Permalink

Re: Re: OT: Zap2it Labs Email [In reply to]

Grant Edwards wrote:

>On Fri, Oct 29, 2004 at 02:42:34PM -0700, Geoff Scott wrote:
>
>
>
>>Received from Zap2it Labs today.
>>
>>
>
>[...]
>
>I imagine a lot of us got that.
>
>
>
>>Well, they may know who the violators are, but I don't.
>>
>>
>
>I was wondering if anybody here knew who/what upset TMS?
>
>
>
>>And since I'm not smart enough to know who the violators are, I'm
>>probably not smart enough to form my own opinion about this letter.
>>Do I agree with Zap2it and demand some heads be place on some very
>>large pikes, or do I start scanning for black helicopters and run
>>around yelling that Zap2it will start charging us because of the
>>"violators"?
>>
>>
>
>I'm not sure if either one will be all that useful.
>
>
Hmmm... I guess that selling commercial pre-configured "MythTV" boxes
would qualify wouldn't it?

Tim

grante at visi

Oct 29, 2004, 3:35 PM

Post #4 of 38 (2039 views)
Permalink

Re: OT: Zap2it Labs Email [In reply to]

On Fri, Oct 29, 2004 at 06:10:49PM -0400, Tim wrote:

> Hmmm... I guess that selling commercial pre-configured
> "MythTV" boxes would qualify wouldn't it?

That depends. If you leave it up to the customer to set up the
listing source and register with TMS, I don't see why they
would be upset.

--
Grant Edwards

jeff at intersystems

Oct 29, 2004, 4:37 PM

Post #5 of 38 (2032 views)
Permalink

Re: Re: OT: Zap2it Labs Email [In reply to]

Friday, October 29, 2004, 6:35:21 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 29, 2004 at 06:10:49PM -0400, Tim wrote:

>> Hmmm... I guess that selling commercial pre-configured
>> "MythTV" boxes would qualify wouldn't it?

> That depends. If you leave it up to the customer to set up the
> listing source and register with TMS, I don't see why they
> would be upset.

Because if they didn't exist, you wouldn't be able
to sell a MythTV box to someone, at least not without
some kind of subscription to receive the listings.

witmore1 at gmail

Oct 29, 2004, 6:11 PM

Post #6 of 38 (2060 views)
Permalink

Re: Re: OT: Zap2it Labs Email [In reply to]

it depends on what you charge for in selling the boxes, alot of
companies get around gnu licenses and such when they sell products
that contain linux or open source software by 1 including copies of
the original source and not representing the software as your creation
the 2 legal things you can sell, are the hardware that was purchased
at a reasonable markup, and then support for the setup and service of
the equipment, if you dont actually sell the software or claim to
provide subscription services without making contracts with zap2it its
gets real shady, but if you give them support to configure thier own
account according to mythtv rules, then they are following the
opensource guidelines that TMS set forth, but I guess it depends on
how many of those boxes you make and sell.

Just my 2 pennies

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:37:52 -0400, Jeff <jeff[at]intersystems.com> wrote:
> Friday, October 29, 2004, 6:35:21 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Fri, Oct 29, 2004 at 06:10:49PM -0400, Tim wrote:
>
> >> Hmmm... I guess that selling commercial pre-configured
> >> "MythTV" boxes would qualify wouldn't it?
>
> > That depends. If you leave it up to the customer to set up the
> > listing source and register with TMS, I don't see why they
> > would be upset.
>
> Because if they didn't exist, you wouldn't be able
> to sell a MythTV box to someone, at least not without
> some kind of subscription to receive the listings.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
>

grante at visi

Oct 29, 2004, 6:34 PM

Post #7 of 38 (2027 views)
Permalink

Re: OT: Zap2it Labs Email [In reply to]

On Fri, Oct 29, 2004 at 09:11:04PM -0400, Jack Trout wrote:

> it depends on what you charge for in selling the boxes, alot
> of companies get around gnu licenses and such when they sell
> products that contain linux or open source software by 1
> including copies of the original source and not representing
> the software as your creation

Huh? There's no rule against selling GPL'ed software, so I
don't see what they're "getting around".

--
Grant Edwards
grante[at]visi.com

Bill at Explosivo

Oct 29, 2004, 8:10 PM

Post #8 of 38 (2062 views)
Permalink

Re: Re: OT: Zap2it Labs Email [In reply to]

Just the fact that they sent out this letter makes me doubt that Zap2It really
knows who is violating it. If there are hardware and software packages using
it against the policy they should do like every other entity does and sue
someone. Suing a company would be easier (and more lucrative) than going
after people.

This is the conspiricy portion of me talking, but I really think this is the
start of a campaign to become a fee based service. It makes enough sense to
get a lot of people using the service than change over. How much money could
they be making off the statistics we provide when we do the questionairre to
re-up the service every few months? They've got to pay for themselves
somehow. It would not bother me as long as it was reasonable...

Of course the data and the service are theirs to do with as they see fit. If
they want to yank free support then thats up to them. If they think selling
Mythtv boxes is violating their rules then its also up to them. You could
hash it out till the cows come home - but in the end you don't really have a
contract with them anyway.

On Friday 29 October 2004 05:52 pm, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 29, 2004 at 02:42:34PM -0700, Geoff Scott wrote:
> > Received from Zap2it Labs today.
>
> [...]
>
> I imagine a lot of us got that.
>
> > Well, they may know who the violators are, but I don't.
>
> I was wondering if anybody here knew who/what upset TMS?
>
> > And since I'm not smart enough to know who the violators are, I'm
> > probably not smart enough to form my own opinion about this letter.
> > Do I agree with Zap2it and demand some heads be place on some very
> > large pikes, or do I start scanning for black helicopters and run
> > around yelling that Zap2it will start charging us because of the
> > "violators"?
>
> I'm not sure if either one will be all that useful.

--
=========================================================
Bill Chmura - www.fistfullofcode.com & www.explosivo.com
=========================================================
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

witmore1 at gmail

Oct 29, 2004, 8:31 PM

Post #9 of 38 (2062 views)
Permalink

Re: Re: OT: Zap2it Labs Email [In reply to]

Well of course I wonder if this will spark a debate like those of the
tv studios and cable companies about avoiding advertising, if a person
uses a program like the original xmltv, just to grab the listing and
code them out from the raw html and it happens that the advertisements
arent whats kept they dont make money, but it was a free service to
begin with, so.. is it against copyright law to grab information from
sources without thier explicit permission, when they dont provide an
terms of service for regular web users?

I guess there main goal is to make money from thier site, and when
mythtv and other such projects that used mythtv were small the
bandwidth wasnt really noticable, now with floods of users it actually
takes a toll on thier site and the ability to use it, xmtv and other
such programs essentially circumvent any advertisement or branding of
thier site, so if a 3rd party is now distributing a program with a
version of xmltv being used with a front end not even mentioning
zap2it as the provider they loose even bigger than when we use it,
because the consumer using the product isnt even aware of the source
and they assume the source is from the manufacturer than the content
provider, this can hurt thier business model and just hurt the
feelings of the people who work hard to upkeep the content, and
company X benifets from that.

lists at threeputt

Oct 29, 2004, 8:48 PM

Post #10 of 38 (2061 views)
Permalink

Re: Re: OT: Zap2it Labs Email [In reply to]

Jack, I've only recently started using DataDirect for another unrelated
project. One thing that I immediately noticed was that DataDirect
provides no method for obtaining schedule changes, so "users" of
DataDirect are forced to reload programming data to catch any schedule
changes.

Since I don't yet have a mythtv box setup (waiting on h/w), I can only
speculate that mythtv (and all users of their service) has to reload
schedule data periodically to catch any schedule changes. If TMS were
serious about reducing bandwidth requirements, they would implement a
method to query their service for schedule changes. I suspect that this
alone would reduce their bandwidth requirements by a large percentage.

When I signed up for DataDirect a month or two ago (again, for a
non-mythtv reason), they gave me a unique key for my application and
stated that they had no intention to move to a "pay" service. I received
their recent email too and I'm certainly not abusing their service, so I
hope that their intent is solely to "remind" people of their terms of
service and hopefully get the known abusers to license DataDirect, etc.

Regards,

Jeff

Jack Trout wrote:

>Well of course I wonder if this will spark a debate like those of the
>tv studios and cable companies about avoiding advertising, if a person
>uses a program like the original xmltv, just to grab the listing and
>code them out from the raw html and it happens that the advertisements
>arent whats kept they dont make money, but it was a free service to
>begin with, so.. is it against copyright law to grab information from
>sources without thier explicit permission, when they dont provide an
>terms of service for regular web users?
>
>I guess there main goal is to make money from thier site, and when
>mythtv and other such projects that used mythtv were small the
>bandwidth wasnt really noticable, now with floods of users it actually
>takes a toll on thier site and the ability to use it, xmtv and other
>such programs essentially circumvent any advertisement or branding of
>thier site, so if a 3rd party is now distributing a program with a
>version of xmltv being used with a front end not even mentioning
>zap2it as the provider they loose even bigger than when we use it,
>because the consumer using the product isnt even aware of the source
>and they assume the source is from the manufacturer than the content
>provider, this can hurt thier business model and just hurt the
>feelings of the people who work hard to upkeep the content, and
>company X benifets from that.
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>mythtv-users mailing list
>mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org
>http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>

mlynch at gcom

Nov 1, 2004, 4:47 AM

Post #11 of 38 (2018 views)
Permalink

Re: Re: OT: Zap2it Labs Email [In reply to]

I would guess their major income source is printed guides for satallite
TV. If you are
a DishNetwork customer and subscribe to the printed guide, look at the
binding, it says
"zap2it.com".

Bill Chmura wrote:

>Just the fact that they sent out this letter makes me doubt that Zap2It really
>knows who is violating it. If there are hardware and software packages using
>it against the policy they should do like every other entity does and sue
>someone. Suing a company would be easier (and more lucrative) than going
>after people.
>
>This is the conspiricy portion of me talking, but I really think this is the
>start of a campaign to become a fee based service. It makes enough sense to
>get a lot of people using the service than change over. How much money could
>they be making off the statistics we provide when we do the questionairre to
>re-up the service every few months? They've got to pay for themselves
>somehow. It would not bother me as long as it was reasonable...
>
>Of course the data and the service are theirs to do with as they see fit. If
>they want to yank free support then thats up to them. If they think selling
>Mythtv boxes is violating their rules then its also up to them. You could
>hash it out till the cows come home - but in the end you don't really have a
>contract with them anyway.
>
>
>
>
>
>On Friday 29 October 2004 05:52 pm, Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>
>>On Fri, Oct 29, 2004 at 02:42:34PM -0700, Geoff Scott wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Received from Zap2it Labs today.
>>>
>>>
>>[...]
>>
>>I imagine a lot of us got that.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Well, they may know who the violators are, but I don't.
>>>
>>>
>>I was wondering if anybody here knew who/what upset TMS?
>>
>>
>>
>>>And since I'm not smart enough to know who the violators are, I'm
>>>probably not smart enough to form my own opinion about this letter.
>>>Do I agree with Zap2it and demand some heads be place on some very
>>>large pikes, or do I start scanning for black helicopters and run
>>>around yelling that Zap2it will start charging us because of the
>>>"violators"?
>>>
>>>
>>I'm not sure if either one will be all that useful.
>>
>>
>
>
>

--
Michael J. Lynch

What if the hokey pokey IS what it's all about -- author unknown

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

witmore1 at gmail

Nov 1, 2004, 5:38 AM

Post #12 of 38 (2010 views)
Permalink

Re: Re: OT: Zap2it Labs Email [In reply to]

yeah, each data packet from data direct comes in 1 day intervals, and
your grabber for mythtv seems to grab anything from 11-13 days out,
using mythtvs instructions generally you use your settings to grab
once a day randomly sometime after 2am. then the database filler
compares and updates as needed,

this is similar to cable as with timewarner in ohio, often last minute
changes wouldnt be updated, (like football games running long or
something like that) but changed made a day or 2 ahead of time would
register, I would watch my cable boxes update around 3 am or so,
whenever they became idle, but if you turned off your cablebox and it
started to update, your box was disabled for about 3 minutes

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 06:47:26 -0600, Michael J. Lynch <mlynch[at]gcom.com> wrote:
> I would guess their major income source is printed guides for satallite
> TV. If you are
> a DishNetwork customer and subscribe to the printed guide, look at the
> binding, it says
> "zap2it.com".
>
>
>
>
> Bill Chmura wrote:
>
> >Just the fact that they sent out this letter makes me doubt that Zap2It really
> >knows who is violating it. If there are hardware and software packages using
> >it against the policy they should do like every other entity does and sue
> >someone. Suing a company would be easier (and more lucrative) than going
> >after people.
> >
> >This is the conspiricy portion of me talking, but I really think this is the
> >start of a campaign to become a fee based service. It makes enough sense to
> >get a lot of people using the service than change over. How much money could
> >they be making off the statistics we provide when we do the questionairre to
> >re-up the service every few months? They've got to pay for themselves
> >somehow. It would not bother me as long as it was reasonable...
> >
> >Of course the data and the service are theirs to do with as they see fit. If
> >they want to yank free support then thats up to them. If they think selling
> >Mythtv boxes is violating their rules then its also up to them. You could
> >hash it out till the cows come home - but in the end you don't really have a
> >contract with them anyway.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >On Friday 29 October 2004 05:52 pm, Grant Edwards wrote:
> >
> >
> >>On Fri, Oct 29, 2004 at 02:42:34PM -0700, Geoff Scott wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Received from Zap2it Labs today.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>[...]
> >>
> >>I imagine a lot of us got that.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Well, they may know who the violators are, but I don't.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>I was wondering if anybody here knew who/what upset TMS?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>And since I'm not smart enough to know who the violators are, I'm
> >>>probably not smart enough to form my own opinion about this letter.
> >>>Do I agree with Zap2it and demand some heads be place on some very
> >>>large pikes, or do I start scanning for black helicopters and run
> >>>around yelling that Zap2it will start charging us because of the
> >>>"violators"?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>I'm not sure if either one will be all that useful.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Michael J. Lynch
>
> What if the hokey pokey IS what it's all about -- author unknown
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

kuhn at razorsys

Nov 1, 2004, 8:55 AM

Post #13 of 38 (2015 views)
Permalink

Re: OT: Zap2it Labs Email [In reply to]

I believe SageTV is one of the culprits..

--John

Geoff Scott wrote:

>Received from Zap2it Labs today.
>
>------------------------------------------------
>An Open Letter to the Zap2it Labs Community:
>
>We at Tribune Media Services and Zap2it.com have been privileged to
>offer a TV listings service to the open source and freeware
>communities so that the many innovations in electronic program guides,
>digital video recorders, and recommendation engines could continue to
>flourish. This free-of-charge service is at risk, however, due to the
>actions of several businesses seeking to exploit our generosity so
>that they can make greater profits.
>
>When you signed up for Zap2it Labs, you agreed to a contract that
>states the service is available for non-commercial, personal use only.
>A few commercial entities have chosen to ignore these contractual
>terms in order to receive television listings without paying. We know
>who these entities are; you know who they are.
>
>These violations must end.
>
>If you purchased a hardware or software product that receives its
>television listings from Zap2it Labs' DataDirect or, indirectly,
>through XMLTV, you may be violating our contract. It is critical that
>you and your vendor abide by our contractual terms, lest everyone
>suffer the consequences.
>
>If you have any questions about this issue, or suggestions for how to
>ameliorate the situation, please feel free to contact us at
>mailto:labs[at]zap2it.com
>
>Sincerely,
>
>
>Jay R. Brodsky
>VP/Technology
>Tribune Media Services
>
>-----------------------------------------------------
>
>Well, they may know who the violators are, but I don't.
>
>And since I'm not smart enough to know who the violators are, I'm
>probably not smart enough to form my own opinion about this letter.
>Do I agree with Zap2it and demand some heads be place on some very
>large pikes, or do I start scanning for black helicopters and run
>around yelling that Zap2it will start charging us because of the
>"violators"?
>
>Geoff
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>mythtv-users mailing list
>mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org
>http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

Bill at Explosivo

Nov 1, 2004, 10:40 AM

Post #14 of 38 (2005 views)
Permalink

Re: OT: Zap2it Labs Email [In reply to]

Could be... although they don't make it a secret of saying that they use
Zap2It for the guide data. In fact they say if there is a problem to contact
them so they can either resolve the problem or contact zap2it themselves.
So....

Either:
1) They don't feel they are violating the zap2it agreement
2) Are actually paying for it

I dunno... we should definitely hunt down and burn someone as a witch (or at
least flog)

On Monday 01 November 2004 11:55 am, John Kuhn wrote:
> I believe SageTV is one of the culprits..
>
> --John
>
> Geoff Scott wrote:
> >Received from Zap2it Labs today.
> >
> >------------------------------------------------
> >An Open Letter to the Zap2it Labs Community:
> >
> >We at Tribune Media Services and Zap2it.com have been privileged to
> >offer a TV listings service to the open source and freeware
> >communities so that the many innovations in electronic program guides,
> >digital video recorders, and recommendation engines could continue to
> >flourish. This free-of-charge service is at risk, however, due to the
> >actions of several businesses seeking to exploit our generosity so
> >that they can make greater profits.
> >
> >When you signed up for Zap2it Labs, you agreed to a contract that
> >states the service is available for non-commercial, personal use only.
> >A few commercial entities have chosen to ignore these contractual
> >terms in order to receive television listings without paying. We know
> >who these entities are; you know who they are.
> >
> >These violations must end.
> >
> >If you purchased a hardware or software product that receives its
> >television listings from Zap2it Labs' DataDirect or, indirectly,
> >through XMLTV, you may be violating our contract. It is critical that
> >you and your vendor abide by our contractual terms, lest everyone
> >suffer the consequences.
> >
> >If you have any questions about this issue, or suggestions for how to
> >ameliorate the situation, please feel free to contact us at
> >mailto:labs[at]zap2it.com
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >
> >
> >Jay R. Brodsky
> >VP/Technology
> >Tribune Media Services
> >
> >-----------------------------------------------------
> >
> >Well, they may know who the violators are, but I don't.
> >
> >And since I'm not smart enough to know who the violators are, I'm
> >probably not smart enough to form my own opinion about this letter.
> >Do I agree with Zap2it and demand some heads be place on some very
> >large pikes, or do I start scanning for black helicopters and run
> >around yelling that Zap2it will start charging us because of the
> >"violators"?
> >
> >Geoff
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >mythtv-users mailing list
> >mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org
> >http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

--

Bill Chmura
Director of Internet Technology
Explosivo ITG
Wolcott, CT

p: 888.560.YWEB (9932)
e: bill[at]Explosivo.com
w. http://www.explosivo.com
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

sysop at tje1

Nov 1, 2004, 11:17 AM

Post #15 of 38 (1984 views)
Permalink

Re: OT: Zap2it Labs Email [In reply to]

>
> On Monday 01 November 2004 11:55 am, John Kuhn wrote:
>> I believe SageTV is one of the culprits..

I looked at their webpage, I cant find anything that would violate this.
It looks like to me they just sell PVR-250/350s and remotes and some
software. Does their software use zap2it?

Eric

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

Bill at Explosivo

Nov 1, 2004, 11:24 AM

Post #16 of 38 (1984 views)
Permalink

Re: OT: Zap2it Labs Email [In reply to]

My personal thoughts are that either:

#1) Zap2It really does not know who is doing it, or does know the company but
cannot track the individual users to enforce it.

#2) Is positioning themselves to start charging... citing this as why

#3) Microsoft (I don't know why, but its always good to get them onto a blame
list).

#4) Zap2It knows, but its not clear cut enough in the legal documents to have
a go at a lawsuit. For example selling mythtv boxes (Just an example, I am
not saying that its the reason or it would be wrong - its just an example -
insert the product of your choice here).

And yes. I agree %100 that greed is a horrible thing.

On Monday 01 November 2004 02:25 pm, Eric Joe wrote:
> > Could be... although they don't make it a secret of saying that they use
> > Zap2It for the guide data. In fact they say if there is a problem to
> > contact
> > them so they can either resolve the problem or contact zap2it themselves.
> > So....
> >
> > Either:
> > 1) They don't feel they are violating the zap2it agreement
> > 2) Are actually paying for it
> >
> > I dunno... we should definitely hunt down and burn someone as a witch (or
> > at
> > least flog)
>
> Well whatever the reason, whats happens if this particular company causes
> the MythTV community to lose their zap2it listings? I for one will be
> ticked. Its amazing how greed always manages to screw up a good thing.
>
> And in other thoughts, why did zap2it assume everyone knew who they were
> talking about? I had no clue.
>
>
> Eric

--

Bill Chmura
Director of Internet Technology
Explosivo ITG
Wolcott, CT

p: 888.560.YWEB (9932)
e: bill[at]Explosivo.com
w. http://www.explosivo.com
_______________________________________________
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sysop at tje1

Nov 1, 2004, 11:25 AM

Post #17 of 38 (2009 views)
Permalink

Re: OT: Zap2it Labs Email [In reply to]

>
> Could be... although they don't make it a secret of saying that they use
> Zap2It for the guide data. In fact they say if there is a problem to
> contact
> them so they can either resolve the problem or contact zap2it themselves.
> So....
>
> Either:
> 1) They don't feel they are violating the zap2it agreement
> 2) Are actually paying for it
>
> I dunno... we should definitely hunt down and burn someone as a witch (or
> at
> least flog)

Well whatever the reason, whats happens if this particular company causes
the MythTV community to lose their zap2it listings? I for one will be
ticked. Its amazing how greed always manages to screw up a good thing.

And in other thoughts, why did zap2it assume everyone knew who they were
talking about? I had no clue.

Eric

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kuhn at razorsys

Nov 1, 2004, 11:42 AM

Post #18 of 38 (1992 views)
Permalink

Re: OT: Zap2it Labs Email [In reply to]

http://www.sage.tv/2_papers/SageTVV2_0Manual.pdf

in there manual it describes zap2it services,.. but also states that
they will contact zap2it directly.. so I imagine they have made an
agreement..

I dont really know.. it was the only commercial software that i could
think of using zap2it

--John

Eric Joe wrote:

>>On Monday 01 November 2004 11:55 am, John Kuhn wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I believe SageTV is one of the culprits..
>>>
>>>
>
>I looked at their webpage, I cant find anything that would violate this.
>It looks like to me they just sell PVR-250/350s and remotes and some
>software. Does their software use zap2it?
>
>
>Eric
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>mythtv-users mailing list
>mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org
>http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
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sysop at tje1

Nov 1, 2004, 12:16 PM

Post #19 of 38 (1954 views)
Permalink

Re: OT: Zap2it Labs Email [In reply to]

> http://www.sage.tv/2_papers/SageTVV2_0Manual.pdf
>
> in there manual it describes zap2it services,.. but also states that
> they will contact zap2it directly.. so I imagine they have made an
> agreement..
>
> I dont really know.. it was the only commercial software that i could
> think of using zap2it

This thread on the Sage TV forums might be of interest.

http://forums.freytechnologies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5952

Its asks the Sage TV users if they had to pay for listings, would they
continue using Sage TV.

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flynnguy at gmail

Nov 1, 2004, 12:26 PM

Post #20 of 38 (1990 views)
Permalink

Re: OT: Zap2it Labs Email [In reply to]

On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 14:24:08 -0500, Bill Chmura <bill[at]explosivo.com> wrote:
> My personal thoughts are that either:
>
> #1) Zap2It really does not know who is doing it, or does know the company but
> cannot track the individual users to enforce it.

If this were the case, how would they know that someone is abusing it?

> #2) Is positioning themselves to start charging... citing this as why

I hope this isn't the case and I kindof doubt it mainly because they
put such an emphasis on it being a free service.

> #3) Microsoft (I don't know why, but its always good to get them onto a blame
> list).

Of course, I'm sure they are behind it. They abuse the service so that
mythtv users are without a program guide and try to force us to use
their Media Center Edition version of windows! Hehe... alway have to
at least try to pin it on Microsoft.

> #4) Zap2It knows, but its not clear cut enough in the legal documents to have
> a go at a lawsuit. For example selling mythtv boxes (Just an example, I am
> not saying that its the reason or it would be wrong - its just an example -
> insert the product of your choice here).

I think this is the most plausable conclusion. However if someone is
selling it and then the individual users is then required to go and
get a zap2it account then it should be ok. It would be if someone was
selling it with their own zap2it subscription on several machines that
this would become an issue. If this is the case, zap2it should be able
to just cut off that account from downloading information.

I certainly hope it doesn't go away... I love the service.
-Chris
--
You must be the change you wish to see in the world. - Gandhi

bolek-mythtv at curl

Nov 1, 2004, 1:07 PM

Post #21 of 38 (1975 views)
Permalink

Re: OT: Zap2it Labs Email [In reply to]

Eric Joe wrote:
>>On Monday 01 November 2004 11:55 am, John Kuhn wrote:
>>
>>>I believe SageTV is one of the culprits..
>
>
> I looked at their webpage, I cant find anything that would violate this.
> It looks like to me they just sell PVR-250/350s and remotes and some
> software. Does their software use zap2it?

Yes, but they had been doing that long before the free DataDirect
service was available. Also, the SageTV guide service was initially $$$
for the users and became free later (still long before DataDirect).

Bolek
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acs at hourglassone

Nov 1, 2004, 1:08 PM

Post #22 of 38 (1994 views)
Permalink

Re: OT: Zap2it Labs Email [In reply to]

If I might chime in for a moment..

It's possible that a company or two is proxying the Zap2it listings
through their own site, such that their client hits a non-zap2it url
that returns cached data. At which point, Zap2it would have no clue as
to whether the request is abusing their terms of use, since it simply
looks like regular usage.

I sincerely doubt that they'll charge in the long term.. Coming from a
web-services background, it would be against the "commoditization of
data" that have made WS's so prevalent.

Christopher Flynn wrote:

>On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 14:24:08 -0500, Bill Chmura <bill[at]explosivo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>My personal thoughts are that either:
>>
>>#1) Zap2It really does not know who is doing it, or does know the company but
>>cannot track the individual users to enforce it.
>>
>>
>
>If this were the case, how would they know that someone is abusing it?
>
>
>
>>#2) Is positioning themselves to start charging... citing this as why
>>
>>
>
>I hope this isn't the case and I kindof doubt it mainly because they
>put such an emphasis on it being a free service.
>
>
>
>>#3) Microsoft (I don't know why, but its always good to get them onto a blame
>>list).
>>
>>
>
>Of course, I'm sure they are behind it. They abuse the service so that
>mythtv users are without a program guide and try to force us to use
>their Media Center Edition version of windows! Hehe... alway have to
>at least try to pin it on Microsoft.
>
>
>
>>#4) Zap2It knows, but its not clear cut enough in the legal documents to have
>>a go at a lawsuit. For example selling mythtv boxes (Just an example, I am
>>not saying that its the reason or it would be wrong - its just an example -
>>insert the product of your choice here).
>>
>>
>
>I think this is the most plausable conclusion. However if someone is
>selling it and then the individual users is then required to go and
>get a zap2it account then it should be ok. It would be if someone was
>selling it with their own zap2it subscription on several machines that
>this would become an issue. If this is the case, zap2it should be able
>to just cut off that account from downloading information.
>
>I certainly hope it doesn't go away... I love the service.
>-Chris
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>mythtv-users mailing list
>mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org
>http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>

_______________________________________________
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Bill at Explosivo

Nov 1, 2004, 1:16 PM

Post #23 of 38 (2004 views)
Permalink

Re: OT: Zap2it Labs Email [In reply to]

Wasn't there a thread here a long time ago with that very same question?

Yeah, there have a been a few discussions in the past asking if we'd be
willing to pay, or pay for a better listing and such.

They could just be thinking the same thing as us... what is the contingency
plan if it does go away. I have no idea what it would be...

On Monday 01 November 2004 03:16 pm, Eric Joe wrote:
> This thread on the Sage TV forums might be of interest.
>
> http://forums.freytechnologies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5952
>
>
> Its asks the Sage TV users if they had to pay for listings, would they
> continue using Sage TV.

--

Bill Chmura
Director of Internet Technology
Explosivo ITG
Wolcott, CT

p: 888.560.YWEB (9932)
e: bill[at]Explosivo.com
w. http://www.explosivo.com
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

pc-mythtv04 at crowcastle

Nov 1, 2004, 1:48 PM

Post #24 of 38 (1975 views)
Permalink

Re: OT: Zap2it Labs Email [In reply to]

On Mon, 2004-11-01 at 16:16, Bill Chmura wrote:
> Wasn't there a thread here a long time ago with that very same question?
>
> Yeah, there have a been a few discussions in the past asking if we'd be
> willing to pay, or pay for a better listing and such.

This is getting off topic (in an allegedly-OT thread), but if I were to
pay for listings, I would want some additional features. Namely, I
would want the service to update listings for sporting events that run
late, with an easy way to download just the changes made within the last
day for today's listings. Then Myth could update listings, say, 15
minutes before scheduled air time.

Personally, I still want a screen-scrubber that goes to each network's
web site. They often have more episode information there than what the
provide to the services. I've had this problem with Comedy Central with
South Park recently, and I've seen it with Cartoon Network in the past.

--PC

Bill at Explosivo

Nov 1, 2004, 1:48 PM

Post #25 of 38 (1969 views)
Permalink

Re: OT: Zap2it Labs Email [In reply to]

Part of the problem could be that on the home page for zap2it labs - the link
to "license our content" does not work. Its a bad email address.

aheinz[at]tribune.comm

Anyone with half a brain would be able to figure out whats wrong with it, but
I guess you could claim you tried.

On Monday 01 November 2004 04:16 pm, Bill Chmura wrote:
> Wasn't there a thread here a long time ago with that very same question?
>
> Yeah, there have a been a few discussions in the past asking if we'd be
> willing to pay, or pay for a better listing and such.
>
> They could just be thinking the same thing as us... what is the
> contingency plan if it does go away. I have no idea what it would be...
>
> On Monday 01 November 2004 03:16 pm, Eric Joe wrote:
> > This thread on the Sage TV forums might be of interest.
> >
> > http://forums.freytechnologies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5952
> >
> >
> > Its asks the Sage TV users if they had to pay for listings, would they
> > continue using Sage TV.

--

Bill Chmura
Director of Internet Technology
Explosivo ITG
Wolcott, CT

p: 888.560.YWEB (9932)
e: bill[at]Explosivo.com
w. http://www.explosivo.com
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

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