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bakers at erols

Mar 25, 2004, 7:45 PM

Post #1 of 22 (11737 views)
Permalink
More feature requests

Hi,
I didn't get much response from the last email I sent about
feature requests; perhaps it was because it appeared in the
archives as though it was a reply to a different topic? Is
there something that has to be included in the email to
make a new topic start?

Anyway, a repeat of the features I was thinking of before:
1. DVD-like zoom. This would include zoom while freeze-framed,
and during playback. Also arrow keys (or assigned) would move the
center around. Most DVD players can zoom in quite a bit.

2. dump current frame to a file. Definitely while freeze-framed,
could also work during playback, but this would make less sense.

And a new thought:

3. regular expression mode for specifying what to record. With
separate expressions for the show title, as well as the description.
I have been wanting this for a while. The schedule only goes so
far forward, and there are old movies that I would like to record
if they happen to show up. I don't want to go looking for them,
however. This could also solve the problem recently discussed about
only wanting certain seasons of shows, if the season number appears
in the description.

Thanks,
S. Baker
bakers [at] erols


dan at milkcarton

Mar 25, 2004, 8:24 PM

Post #2 of 22 (11539 views)
Permalink
Re: More feature requests [In reply to]

These are all good features. . . We look forward to your patches.

S. Baker wrote:

>Hi,
> I didn't get much response from the last email I sent about
>feature requests; perhaps it was because it appeared in the
>archives as though it was a reply to a different topic? Is
>there something that has to be included in the email to
>make a new topic start?
>
> Anyway, a repeat of the features I was thinking of before:
>1. DVD-like zoom. This would include zoom while freeze-framed,
>and during playback. Also arrow keys (or assigned) would move the
>center around. Most DVD players can zoom in quite a bit.
>
>2. dump current frame to a file. Definitely while freeze-framed,
>could also work during playback, but this would make less sense.
>
>And a new thought:
>
>3. regular expression mode for specifying what to record. With
>separate expressions for the show title, as well as the description.
>I have been wanting this for a while. The schedule only goes so
>far forward, and there are old movies that I would like to record
>if they happen to show up. I don't want to go looking for them,
>however. This could also solve the problem recently discussed about
>only wanting certain seasons of shows, if the season number appears
>in the description.
>
>Thanks,
>S. Baker
>bakers [at] erols
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>mythtv-users mailing list
>mythtv-users [at] mythtv
>http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
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christianh at edmi

Mar 25, 2004, 8:57 PM

Post #3 of 22 (11515 views)
Permalink
RE: More feature requests [In reply to]

> Anyway, a repeat of the features I was thinking of before:
> 1. DVD-like zoom. This would include zoom while freeze-framed,
> and during playback. Also arrow keys (or assigned) would move the
> center around. Most DVD players can zoom in quite a bit.
>

Try pressing W. It doesn't support moving around though.

CH


gtgj at pacbell

Mar 25, 2004, 11:14 PM

Post #4 of 22 (11522 views)
Permalink
Re: More feature requests [In reply to]

>>>>> Christian Hack writes:

>> Anyway, a repeat of the features I was thinking of before:
>> 1. DVD-like zoom. This would include zoom while freeze-framed,
>> and during playback. Also arrow keys (or assigned) would move the
>> center around. Most DVD players can zoom in quite a bit.
>>

c> Try pressing W. It doesn't support moving around though.


In CVS, there is a neat "Zoom Mode" for recordings where you
can zoom in/out and pan. See "keys.txt". You can enter it using the
program menu brought up by the "O" key.
--
Gregorio Gervasio, Jr.


christianh at edmi

Mar 26, 2004, 3:29 AM

Post #5 of 22 (11510 views)
Permalink
Re: More feature requests [In reply to]

---- Original Message -----
From: "Gregorio Gervasio, Jr." <gtgj [at] pacbell>
To: "Discussion about mythtv" <mythtv-users [at] mythtv>
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] More feature requests


> >>>>> Christian Hack writes:
>
> >> Anyway, a repeat of the features I was thinking of before:
> >> 1. DVD-like zoom. This would include zoom while freeze-framed,
> >> and during playback. Also arrow keys (or assigned) would move the
> >> center around. Most DVD players can zoom in quite a bit.
> >>
>
> c> Try pressing W. It doesn't support moving around though.
>
>
> In CVS, there is a neat "Zoom Mode" for recordings where you
> can zoom in/out and pan. See "keys.txt". You can enter it using the
> program menu brought up by the "O" key.

Hmm... already use CVS here. That's pretty cool and exactly what was
requested. I didn't notice that one go into CVS.

CH

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mythtv at michaelstarks

Mar 26, 2004, 6:01 AM

Post #6 of 22 (11530 views)
Permalink
Re: More feature requests [In reply to]

Dan Morphis wrote:
> These are all good features. . . We look forward to your patches.

And why would someone who has the skill set to implement these post a
request rather than actually code them?


jcaputo1 at comcast

Mar 26, 2004, 7:01 AM

Post #7 of 22 (11500 views)
Permalink
Re: More feature requests [In reply to]

On Friday 26 March 2004 08:01, Michael Starks wrote:
> Dan Morphis wrote:
> > These are all good features. . . We look forward to your patches.
>
> And why would someone who has the skill set to implement these post a
> request rather than actually code them?

Because some people don't have time or skills to work on all the
features they'd like to implement, and want to put the ideas out there
in case anyone else is interested in working on one of them.

That said, I agree that this sounded much more like a pure feature
request/suggestion, and not a "these are features I'm thinking of
implementing..." message :-)

-JAC
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spida at gmx

Mar 26, 2004, 10:31 AM

Post #8 of 22 (11513 views)
Permalink
Re: More feature requests [In reply to]

Hi,

* Dan Morphis <dan [at] milkcarton>, Friday, March 26, 2004, 4:24:52 AM:

> These are all good features. . . We look forward to your patches.
Thanks, that post will REALLY help him.

Timo


dan at milkcarton

Mar 26, 2004, 11:09 AM

Post #9 of 22 (11545 views)
Permalink
Re: More feature requests [In reply to]

> Hi,
>
> * Dan Morphis <dan [at] milkcarton>, Friday, March 26, 2004, 4:24:52 AM:
>
>
>>These are all good features. . . We look forward to your patches.
>
> Thanks, that post will REALLY help him.
I thought so too. . . Hence why I posted it.


jdonavan at jdonavan

Mar 26, 2004, 2:16 PM

Post #10 of 22 (11539 views)
Permalink
Re: More feature requests [In reply to]

Garry wrote:

> Just because someone isn't a coder, doesn't mean their suggestions are
> any less welcome, surely?

No it just means that they're not likely to be a priority for
developers. Having a feature idea is all well and good, but ideas
without code to back them up are not all that useful.



> The whole "if you want it to do that, then go code it yourself"
> attitude if the only real downer I see when dealing with OSS projects.

Well what exactly you do you expect when you getting something for
free? Most OSS developers write code for other people all day long so
when working on OSS projects they write code for themselves.


> Coding is only one way of contributing.

Feature requests are really contributing. If you honestly want to
contribute try writing documentation, submitting DETAILED bug reports
things of that nature.

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gerald.gryschuk at shaw

Mar 26, 2004, 4:24 PM

Post #11 of 22 (11531 views)
Permalink
Re: More feature requests [In reply to]

Having a feature request with code is more useful but I don't think one
without is "not all that useful".

All feature requests are great because it makes us go "hmm, I hadn't
thought of that, what a great idea". And maybe somebody will like the
idea so much they'll code it up.

People who make feature requests without code should understand that it
probably won't be high on someone's list but they shouldn't be expected
to submit code.

Hell, I've been wondering if it wouldn't be possible to take feature
requests and put them on the myth web page somehow. Get them all
collected in one place so that users and developers can see what people
are looking for. Maybe even have a voting system. This doesn't mean the
developers have to listen to the voters, heck it's our time, but at
least they will know which things the normal user is looking for.

On Fri, 2004-03-26 at 15:16, J. Donavan Stanley wrote:
> Garry wrote:
>
> > Just because someone isn't a coder, doesn't mean their suggestions are
> > any less welcome, surely?
>
> No it just means that they're not likely to be a priority for
> developers. Having a feature idea is all well and good, but ideas
> without code to back them up are not all that useful.
>
>
>
> > The whole "if you want it to do that, then go code it yourself"
> > attitude if the only real downer I see when dealing with OSS projects.
>
> Well what exactly you do you expect when you getting something for
> free? Most OSS developers write code for other people all day long so
> when working on OSS projects they write code for themselves.
>
>
> > Coding is only one way of contributing.
>
> Feature requests are really contributing. If you honestly want to
> contribute try writing documentation, submitting DETAILED bug reports
> things of that nature.
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
--
Gerald Gryschuk <gerald.gryschuk [at] shaw>


garry at sneakyninja

Mar 26, 2004, 4:30 PM

Post #12 of 22 (11521 views)
Permalink
Re: More feature requests [In reply to]

Dan Morphis wrote:

> These are all good features. . . We look forward to your patches.
>
> S. Baker wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I didn't get much response from the last email I sent about
>> feature requests; perhaps it was because it appeared in the
>> archives as though it was a reply to a different topic? Is
>> there something that has to be included in the email to make a new
>> topic start?
>>
>> Anyway, a repeat of the features I was thinking of before:
>> 1. DVD-like zoom. This would include zoom while freeze-framed,
>> and during playback. Also arrow keys (or assigned) would move the
>> center around. Most DVD players can zoom in quite a bit.
>>
>> 2. dump current frame to a file. Definitely while freeze-framed,
>> could also work during playback, but this would make less sense.
>>
>> And a new thought:
>>
>> 3. regular expression mode for specifying what to record. With
>> separate expressions for the show title, as well as the description.
>> I have been wanting this for a while. The schedule only goes so
>> far forward, and there are old movies that I would like to record
>> if they happen to show up. I don't want to go looking for them,
>> however. This could also solve the problem recently discussed about
>> only wanting certain seasons of shows, if the season number appears
>> in the description.
>> Thanks,
>> S. Baker
>> bakers [at] erols
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mythtv-users mailing list
>> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
>> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


Just because someone isn't a coder, doesn't mean their suggestions are
any less welcome, surely?

The more suggestions the better, especially when they promote the 'it
already does' kind of responses. No point a product having a cool
feature if nobody knows it's there, right?

The whole "if you want it to do that, then go code it yourself" attitude
if the only real downer I see when dealing with OSS projects.

Coding is only one way of contributing.

-G

--
"From yourself, you can't run away." - Killswitch Engage.

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mythtv at michaelstarks

Mar 26, 2004, 5:48 PM

Post #13 of 22 (11505 views)
Permalink
Re: More feature requests [In reply to]

> Because some people don't have time or skills to work on all the
> features they'd like to implement, and want to put the ideas out there
> in case anyone else is interested in working on one of them.

Exactly!


mythgnomer at rowelab

Mar 26, 2004, 7:32 PM

Post #14 of 22 (11528 views)
Permalink
RE: More feature requests [In reply to]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mythtv-users-bounces [at] mythtv
> [mailto:mythtv-users-bounces [at] mythtv] On Behalf Of J.
> Donavan Stanley
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 3:16 PM
> To: Discussion about mythtv
> Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] More feature requests
>
> Garry wrote:
>
> > Just because someone isn't a coder, doesn't mean their
> suggestions are
> > any less welcome, surely?
>
> No it just means that they're not likely to be a priority for
> developers. Having a feature idea is all well and good, but
> ideas without code to back them up are not all that useful.
>
>
>
> > The whole "if you want it to do that, then go code it yourself"
> > attitude if the only real downer I see when dealing with
> OSS projects.
>
> Well what exactly you do you expect when you getting
> something for free? Most OSS developers write code for other
> people all day long so when working on OSS projects they
> write code for themselves.
>
>
> > Coding is only one way of contributing.
>
> Feature requests are really contributing. If you honestly
> want to contribute try writing documentation, submitting
> DETAILED bug reports things of that nature.
>

<rant>

Actually, feature requests help spur innovation.. If someone comes up with a
cool new feature that someone with the skills to implement really likes, it
helps both of them. Unless you make the assumption that the developers have
thought of everything and will never come across an idea that they might
like but didn't think of themselves.

Gee, arrogant much?

Development isn't the be-all and end-all of sucessful product development.
You need visionaries, dev leads, developers, config folks, testers, release
/ build people, product managers, technical writers, marketers or
evangelists, user acceptance testing, etc. While there may not be people
exclusively devoted to each of these roles right now, someone is performing
them (Isaac, Jarrod, Axel, et al, remove all those hats and take a bow.)

There comes a point in most sucessful open source development when it gets
away from developers 'scratching an itch' and looking more toward what the
market needs. Because, in the end, it's good for all of us. Broader feature
support and ease of use leads to a wider audience. Wider audience attracts
commercial development. Commercial development attracts hardware vendors
looking to make their product 'myth-compatible'.

As a developer, how would you like Hauppauge sending you the newest, coolest
toy to play with, all the documentation, SDKs, and resources you could ask
for? Which would look better on a resume, 'developed widgetX for unknown OSS
project' or 'Courted by major hardware vendor to lead a team of developers
integrating cutting edge technology into an OSS app that everyone loves.' So
who knows, you might even get a job out of it. One doing something you love.


So where is mythTV in that process? I'd say close to the end of that list of
steps. We've seen the flood of newbies who are encouraged by the HOWTOs and
such, there are at least three companies commercializing myth, and
developers are being called by hardware manufacturers to demo myth. Not that
the 'end' means anything- it's an iterative cycle feeding on positive
feedback.

So take the feaure requests as market research. Someone's paying attention
to what the users want, and they may eventually convert those into a product
roadmap, and throw resources into the project. If it isn't an itch for you,
don't scratch it. Someone will. Either because it's their itch, too, or
because they see it as a way to sell boxes utilizing myth.

Reminds me of the saying 'Ask an engineer what time it is and he'll tell you
how to build a watch.'

</rant>

-Scott Rowe

P.S. No, I'm not a commercial operator, just someone who's done dev, QA,
product management, technical writing, and marketing.


jdonavan at jdonavan

Mar 27, 2004, 7:45 AM

Post #15 of 22 (11526 views)
Permalink
Re: More feature requests [In reply to]

Scott Rowe wrote:

>>
>>
>
><rant>
>
>Actually, feature requests help spur innovation.. If someone comes up with a
>cool new feature that someone with the skills to implement really likes, it
>helps both of them. Unless you make the assumption that the developers have
>thought of everything and will never come across an idea that they might
>like but didn't think of themselves.
>
>Gee, arrogant much?
>
>

*sigh* the novel unique, *visionary* ideas are RARE. Spouting off a
list of "I wants" or "wouldn't it be cool ifs" is not quite what one
would call a contribution.


>Development isn't the be-all and end-all of sucessful product development.
>You need visionaries, dev leads, developers, config folks, testers, release
>/ build people, product managers, technical writers, marketers or
>evangelists, user acceptance testing, etc. While there may not be people
>exclusively devoted to each of these roles right now, someone is performing
>them (Isaac, Jarrod, Axel, et al, remove all those hats and take a bow.)
>
>

That's right, that's why I suggested ways to actually contribute instead
of making feature requests. But hey, it's a lot easier to "contribute"
by list of your visionary ideas than it is to spend all day trying to
come up with the exact steps needed to reproduce a bug or writing up
documentation isn't it?


>As a developer, how would you like Hauppauge sending you the newest, coolest
>toy to play with, all the documentation, SDKs, and resources you could ask
>for? Which would look better on a resume, 'developed widgetX for unknown OSS
>project' or 'Courted by major hardware vendor to lead a team of developers
>integrating cutting edge technology into an OSS app that everyone loves.' So
>who knows, you might even get a job out of it. One doing something you love.
>
>
While I wouldn't mind the toys, I don't list any OSS work on my resume
and it only gets casually mentioned in interviews. Working OSS projects
is a big negative to lots of potential employers if you're an engineer.
But then again, it'd be Isaac getting the toys not me since I'm just a
bit player.

>So where is mythTV in that process? I'd say close to the end of that list of
>steps. We've seen the flood of newbies who are encouraged by the HOWTOs and
>such, there are at least three companies commercializing myth, and
>developers are being called by hardware manufacturers to demo myth. Not that
>the 'end' means anything- it's an iterative cycle feeding on positive
>feedback.
>
>
There's also lots of companies that are or soon will be selling MythTV
based products. They are the ones that'll take these feature requests
as market research and do something about them. But spouting off a list
of feature requests, calling it contributing and then complaining when
none the developers (who are working for free and get nothing in return
for more users except more feature requests) don't jump right on it is
just silly.

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alamar at llamamuds

Mar 27, 2004, 9:28 AM

Post #16 of 22 (11539 views)
Permalink
Re: More feature requests [In reply to]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


|>
|> feedback.
|>
|>
| There's also lots of companies that are or soon will be selling
| MythTV based products. They are the ones that'll take these
| feature requests as market research and do something about them.
| But spouting off a list of feature requests, calling it
| contributing and then complaining when none the developers (who are
| working for free and get nothing in return for more users except
| more feature requests) don't jump right on it is just silly.
|
I must have missed something. Did anyone complain that that
"developers don't jump right on" the things this guy suggested? No
one asked _you_ to implement these ideas. Hey, they're just ideas.
If you don't want to implement them, don't. What's the harm in wish
lists? Geez, next thing you know, you'll be griping that kids write
letters to Santa!

|> Keeping out of the rest of the discussion, since it's mainly
|> silly
cranky-pants that are irritated anyway. <<

- --Phill W.



| _______________________________________________ mythtv-users
| mailing list mythtv-users [at] mythtv
| http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


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mythtv at michaelstarks

Mar 27, 2004, 12:52 PM

Post #17 of 22 (11541 views)
Permalink
Re: More feature requests [In reply to]

> *sigh* the novel unique, *visionary* ideas are RARE. Spouting off a
> list of "I wants" or "wouldn't it be cool ifs" is not quite what one
> would call a contribution.

And while others contribute ideas to the development of Myth, which may
or may not be taken to heart by those who choose to code, you take
opportunities to fling sarcastic remarks around. Perhaps the best way
*you* can contribute is not to stifle those who wish to participate in
the fun by throwing out novel new ideas and approaches.


bjm at lvcm

Mar 27, 2004, 1:01 PM

Post #18 of 22 (11537 views)
Permalink
Re: More feature requests [In reply to]

Phill Wiggin wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
> |>
> |> feedback.
> |>
> |>
> | There's also lots of companies that are or soon will be selling
> | MythTV based products. They are the ones that'll take these
> | feature requests as market research and do something about them.
> | But spouting off a list of feature requests, calling it
> | contributing and then complaining when none the developers (who are
> | working for free and get nothing in return for more users except
> | more feature requests) don't jump right on it is just silly.
> |
> I must have missed something. Did anyone complain that that
> "developers don't jump right on" the things this guy suggested? No
> one asked _you_ to implement these ideas. Hey, they're just ideas.

Well, the OP said that he had posted these before and no one
responded so he was posting again. This sort of implies that his
demands had not been met (this is the catalyst for the silliness
that followed but no one pointed that out specifically). There
was a reply suggesting that if he felt these are so important, he
should send a patch himself. This is perfectly valid. If someone
cannot code for themselves, who's fault is that? If someone expects
a programmer to work to their specifications, they should probably
budget ~$150/hr.

> If you don't want to implement them, don't. What's the harm in wish
> lists? Geez, next thing you know, you'll be griping that kids write
> letters to Santa!

But there is a problem if the kid holds his breath until he is
blue in the face if he doesn't get his bicycle.

-- bjm


mythgnomer at rowelab

Mar 27, 2004, 8:32 PM

Post #19 of 22 (11537 views)
Permalink
RE: More feature requests [In reply to]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mythtv-users-bounces [at] mythtv
> [mailto:mythtv-users-bounces [at] mythtv] On Behalf Of J.
> Donavan Stanley
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 8:46 AM
> To: Discussion about mythtv
> Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] More feature requests

<snip>

> *sigh* the novel unique, *visionary* ideas are RARE.
> Spouting off a list of "I wants" or "wouldn't it be cool ifs"
> is not quite what one would call a contribution.

That's UAT. If User A wants a feature that's already there, then the
documentation needs work, or a UI isn't clear. If the feature isn't there,
then that gives the visionary ideas on where the product should go next. It
is a contribution (maybe not what you want, but like I said, someone's
keeping track.)

> While there may not be
> >people exclusively devoted to each of these roles right now,
> someone is
> >performing them (Isaac, Jarrod, Axel, et al, remove all
> those hats and
> >take a bow.)
> >
> >
>
> That's right, that's why I suggested ways to actually
> contribute instead of making feature requests. But hey, it's
> a lot easier to "contribute"
> by list of your visionary ideas than it is to spend all day
> trying to come up with the exact steps needed to reproduce a
> bug or writing up documentation isn't it?

If a user doesn't have the expertise to code, then they probably don't have
the expertise to write documentation. (Or the documentation they produce
might be of questionable value.) Same thing for the steps to reproduce.
Maybe it takes talking to the person reporting the bug to better determine
what the circumstances were that led to the problem. Maybe the user doesn't
have the ability to determine what's relevant ('Gee, I was recording a show
on a Wednesday, could that be the problem?')

> While I wouldn't mind the toys, I don't list any OSS work on
> my resume and it only gets casually mentioned in interviews.
> Working OSS projects is a big negative to lots of potential
> employers if you're an engineer.
> But then again, it'd be Isaac getting the toys not me since
> I'm just a bit player.

Sure, some companies frown on it- keep looking. You'd probably find that
working for a company that values and appreciates OSS work is a better fit,
anyway!!

>
> >So where is mythTV in that process? I'd say close to the end of that
> >list of steps. We've seen the flood of newbies who are encouraged by
> >the HOWTOs and such, there are at least three companies
> commercializing
> >myth, and developers are being called by hardware
> manufacturers to demo
> >myth. Not that the 'end' means anything- it's an iterative cycle
> >feeding on positive feedback.
> >
> >
> There's also lots of companies that are or soon will be
> selling MythTV based products. They are the ones that'll
> take these feature requests as market research and do
> something about them. But spouting off a list of feature
> requests, calling it contributing and then complaining when
> none the developers (who are working for free and get nothing
> in return for more users except more feature requests) don't
> jump right on it is just silly.

I know it's frustrating, but it's all in the mind set. If it's not your
itch, ignore it. As to the original poster complaining, he (or she- not sure
about S. Baker, if a she, my apologies) said:

> I didn't get much response from the last email
> I sent about feature requests; perhaps it was
> because it appeared in the archives as though
> it was a reply to a different topic? Is there
> something that has to be included in the email
> to make a new topic start?

Looks like he's just looking for validation.. Good idea? Bad idea? Already
there, but not sure where it is? Point 1. is already in CVS (apparently),
point 2. seems novel, and point 3. seems logical. So the user is saying
'sorry, I'm not sure how the list works, here's some ideas I had.' Seems to
me that if the person is thinking about regular expressions, it might be a
person interested in / capable of actually coding it. Maybe the person was
just asking if anyone would be interested in it so that they would know if
it was worth their time to code it. (I'm not saying this is so, just
positing a possible scenario.)

-Scott


bakers at erols

Mar 28, 2004, 2:19 PM

Post #20 of 22 (11535 views)
Permalink
RE: More feature requests [In reply to]

On Sat, 27 Mar 2004, Scott Rowe wrote:

>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mythtv-users-bounces [at] mythtv
> > [mailto:mythtv-users-bounces [at] mythtv] On Behalf Of J.
> > Donavan Stanley
> > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 8:46 AM
> > To: Discussion about mythtv
> > Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] More feature requests
>
> <snip>
>
> > *sigh* the novel unique, *visionary* ideas are RARE.
> > Spouting off a list of "I wants" or "wouldn't it be cool ifs"
> > is not quite what one would call a contribution.
>
> That's UAT. If User A wants a feature that's already there, then the
> documentation needs work, or a UI isn't clear. If the feature isn't there,
> then that gives the visionary ideas on where the product should go next. It
> is a contribution (maybe not what you want, but like I said, someone's
> keeping track.)
>
> > While there may not be
> > >people exclusively devoted to each of these roles right now,
> > someone is
> > >performing them (Isaac, Jarrod, Axel, et al, remove all
> > those hats and
> > >take a bow.)
> > >
> > >
> >
> > That's right, that's why I suggested ways to actually
> > contribute instead of making feature requests. But hey, it's
> > a lot easier to "contribute"
> > by list of your visionary ideas than it is to spend all day
> > trying to come up with the exact steps needed to reproduce a
> > bug or writing up documentation isn't it?
>
> If a user doesn't have the expertise to code, then they probably don't have
> the expertise to write documentation. (Or the documentation they produce
> might be of questionable value.) Same thing for the steps to reproduce.
> Maybe it takes talking to the person reporting the bug to better determine
> what the circumstances were that led to the problem. Maybe the user doesn't
> have the ability to determine what's relevant ('Gee, I was recording a show
> on a Wednesday, could that be the problem?')
>
> > While I wouldn't mind the toys, I don't list any OSS work on
> > my resume and it only gets casually mentioned in interviews.
> > Working OSS projects is a big negative to lots of potential
> > employers if you're an engineer.
> > But then again, it'd be Isaac getting the toys not me since
> > I'm just a bit player.
>
> Sure, some companies frown on it- keep looking. You'd probably find that
> working for a company that values and appreciates OSS work is a better fit,
> anyway!!
>
> >
> > >So where is mythTV in that process? I'd say close to the end of that
> > >list of steps. We've seen the flood of newbies who are encouraged by
> > >the HOWTOs and such, there are at least three companies
> > commercializing
> > >myth, and developers are being called by hardware
> > manufacturers to demo
> > >myth. Not that the 'end' means anything- it's an iterative cycle
> > >feeding on positive feedback.
> > >
> > >
> > There's also lots of companies that are or soon will be
> > selling MythTV based products. They are the ones that'll
> > take these feature requests as market research and do
> > something about them. But spouting off a list of feature
> > requests, calling it contributing and then complaining when
> > none the developers (who are working for free and get nothing
> > in return for more users except more feature requests) don't
> > jump right on it is just silly.
>
> I know it's frustrating, but it's all in the mind set. If it's not your
> itch, ignore it. As to the original poster complaining, he (or she- not sure
> about S. Baker, if a she, my apologies) said:
>
> > I didn't get much response from the last email
> > I sent about feature requests; perhaps it was
> > because it appeared in the archives as though
> > it was a reply to a different topic? Is there
> > something that has to be included in the email
> > to make a new topic start?
>
> Looks like he's just looking for validation.. Good idea? Bad idea? Already
> there, but not sure where it is? Point 1. is already in CVS (apparently),
> point 2. seems novel, and point 3. seems logical. So the user is saying
> 'sorry, I'm not sure how the list works, here's some ideas I had.' Seems to
> me that if the person is thinking about regular expressions, it might be a
> person interested in / capable of actually coding it. Maybe the person was
> just asking if anyone would be interested in it so that they would know if
> it was worth their time to code it. (I'm not saying this is so, just
> positing a possible scenario.)
>
> -Scott
>
>

Thanks for the mostly correct interpretation. Since there appears to
be some confusion as to exactly what I meant by my questions, I will
reiterate in a form that the people who misunderstood might be able
to comprehend:

1. I posted before, and saw no response. I noticed that for some
reason that post was put in the archive as though it were a reply
to some other post (the email I received had no indication of that,
though, so I didn't understand what happened). Since most other feature
requests garner at least one or two replies, I was concerned that no-one
had seen it.

2. I meant my post as a pure feature request at this time. I did start
to look at the code to see if I could implement the zoom feature at the
time I first proposed it, but I just don't have the kind of time right
now. Especially starting from no knowledge of the code.

Which leads me back to my first thought when writing this reply: I want
to thank (not) the extremely unhelpful first reply to my email (I'm
not even going to bother going to look up who it was). If you had
really wanted me to produce code, you would have said something
helpful, like giving some ideas on how to implement it and where to
look in the myth code. What you said, something to the effect of
'go write it', was not helpful, productive, or in any way conducive
to getting the job done. It was just petty.

I do want to thank all the people who have worked hard on this project.
My MythTV is currently down trying to change from mandrake 9.2 to
fedora to try to get rid of the frequent crashing that seems to be
caused by the nvidia driver. I'm not sure that fedora is going to
help, since I recently found a very repeatable way to crash it, that
has nothing whatsoever to do with MythTV. I look forward to finding
a solution that works for me and getting back to using, and perhaps
in the future developing for this wonderful project.

S. Baker
bakers [at] erols


myth at dgreaves

May 21, 2004, 2:44 PM

Post #21 of 22 (11482 views)
Permalink
Re: More feature requests [In reply to]

Gerald Gryschuk wrote:

>Having a feature request with code is more useful but I don't think one
>without is "not all that useful".
>
>All feature requests are great because it makes us go "hmm, I hadn't
>thought of that, what a great idea". And maybe somebody will like the
>idea so much they'll code it up.
>
>People who make feature requests without code should understand that it
>probably won't be high on someone's list but they shouldn't be expected
>to submit code.
>
>Hell, I've been wondering if it wouldn't be possible to take feature
>requests and put them on the myth web page somehow. Get them all
>collected in one place so that users and developers can see what people
>are looking for. Maybe even have a voting system. This doesn't mean the
>developers have to listen to the voters, heck it's our time, but at
>least they will know which things the normal user is looking for.
>
>

see: http://www.mythtv.info/moin.cgi/UserWishList

(For any developers on the *mythtv-users* list :) )

Like it says:
User (not developer so probably won't get done - really!)
Wish (yep - tooth fairy time, we know)
List (bullet points too!)

David


bjm at lvcm

May 21, 2004, 6:47 PM

Post #22 of 22 (11507 views)
Permalink
Re: More feature requests [In reply to]

David wrote:
> Gerald Gryschuk wrote:
>
>> Having a feature request with code is more useful but I don't think one
>> without is "not all that useful".
>>
>> All feature requests are great because it makes us go "hmm, I hadn't
>> thought of that, what a great idea". And maybe somebody will like the
>> idea so much they'll code it up.
>>
>> People who make feature requests without code should understand that it
>> probably won't be high on someone's list but they shouldn't be expected
>> to submit code.
>>
>> Hell, I've been wondering if it wouldn't be possible to take feature
>> requests and put them on the myth web page somehow. Get them all
>> collected in one place so that users and developers can see what people
>> are looking for. Maybe even have a voting system. This doesn't mean the
>> developers have to listen to the voters, heck it's our time, but at
>> least they will know which things the normal user is looking for.
>>
>>
>
> see: http://www.mythtv.info/moin.cgi/UserWishList
>
> (For any developers on the *mythtv-users* list :) )

Excuse me but you are not the owner or maintainer of this list
and you have no authority to decide who is allow to participate
and what the ground rules are or how this list should be used to
serve your purposes.

You really ought to step back and reconsider the boundaries of
your presumption that you have the right to usurp the work of
others.

-- bjm

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