Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Users

No network: no frontend

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bob at oblong

Sep 13, 2012, 4:50 AM

Post #1 of 10 (586 views)
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No network: no frontend

MythTV Version : v0.25.2-19-gcf06841
MythTV Branch : fixes/0.25

Combined backend/frontend.

My understanding was that a MythTV box can (should?) be configured so
that its network address is static, and that that IP address be told to
the backend and to the frontend.

However, if the network for some reason can't connect (in my case, a
wireless connection to the router), then the frontend won't start in the
normal manner, and I'm presented with the language selection menu of the
frontend. Attempting to cancel that just restarts the frontend and it
returns to that menu.

Is there an easy way around that (assuming that for some reason the
network connection can't be quickly re-established, eg., router
failure)? Or have I got the configuration wrong? In other words, must
MythTV have a working network connection for operation?

Thanks.

--
Bob Long

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mythtv-users mailing list
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sgtbundy at gmail

Sep 13, 2012, 5:09 AM

Post #2 of 10 (579 views)
Permalink

Re: No network: no frontend [In reply to]

On 13/09/2012 9:50 PM, Bob Long wrote:
> MythTV Version : v0.25.2-19-gcf06841
> MythTV Branch : fixes/0.25
>
> Combined backend/frontend.
>
> My understanding was that a MythTV box can (should?) be configured so
> that its network address is static, and that that IP address be told
> to the backend and to the frontend.
>
> However, if the network for some reason can't connect (in my case, a
> wireless connection to the router), then the frontend won't start in
> the normal manner, and I'm presented with the language selection menu
> of the frontend. Attempting to cancel that just restarts the frontend
> and it returns to that menu.
>
> Is there an easy way around that (assuming that for some reason the
> network connection can't be quickly re-established, eg., router
> failure)? Or have I got the configuration wrong? In other words, must
> MythTV have a working network connection for operation?
>
> Thanks.
>

If you look at the upstart configuration, it depends on the non loopback
network being up for the backend service to start:

start on (local-filesystems and net-device-up IFACE!=lo and started
udev-finish)

I believe the idea is to ensure that the backend is listening on all
interfaces when it starts so that remote clients can connect.
I do recall some workaround is to just configure a dummy static eth0
interface that always comes up so the script can get on with it, or you
could hack that section out of the upstart config
(/etc/init/mythtv-backend.conf).

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thomas at mashos

Sep 13, 2012, 8:03 AM

Post #3 of 10 (575 views)
Permalink

Re: No network: no frontend [In reply to]

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 5:09 AM, Adrian Saul <sgtbundy [at] gmail> wrote:
> On 13/09/2012 9:50 PM, Bob Long wrote:
>>
>> MythTV Version : v0.25.2-19-gcf06841
>> MythTV Branch : fixes/0.25
>>
>> Combined backend/frontend.
>>
>> My understanding was that a MythTV box can (should?) be configured so that
>> its network address is static, and that that IP address be told to the
>> backend and to the frontend.
>>
>> However, if the network for some reason can't connect (in my case, a
>> wireless connection to the router), then the frontend won't start in the
>> normal manner, and I'm presented with the language selection menu of the
>> frontend. Attempting to cancel that just restarts the frontend and it
>> returns to that menu.
>>
>> Is there an easy way around that (assuming that for some reason the
>> network connection can't be quickly re-established, eg., router failure)? Or
>> have I got the configuration wrong? In other words, must MythTV have a
>> working network connection for operation?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>
> If you look at the upstart configuration, it depends on the non loopback
> network being up for the backend service to start:
>
> start on (local-filesystems and net-device-up IFACE!=lo and started
> udev-finish)
>
> I believe the idea is to ensure that the backend is listening on all
> interfaces when it starts so that remote clients can connect.
> I do recall some workaround is to just configure a dummy static eth0
> interface that always comes up so the script can get on with it, or you
> could hack that section out of the upstart config
> (/etc/init/mythtv-backend.conf).
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

That is only for the backend, the OP is talking about the frontend.
The frontend must be able to talk to the backend for it to start
correctly. All the information about the frontend is kept in the
database, plus you would need a connection to the backend to playback
any content. As frontend local content is going away, I don't see this
changing.

Thanks,

Thomas Mashos
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

joe at thefrys

Sep 13, 2012, 8:21 AM

Post #4 of 10 (570 views)
Permalink

Re: No network: no frontend [In reply to]

> > On 13/09/2012 9:50 PM, Bob Long wrote:
> >>
> >> MythTV Version : v0.25.2-19-gcf06841
> >> MythTV Branch : fixes/0.25
> >>
> >> Combined backend/frontend.
> >>
> >> My understanding was that a MythTV box can (should?) be configured so
> that
> >> its network address is static, and that that IP address be told to the
> >> backend and to the frontend.
> >>
> >> However, if the network for some reason can't connect (in my case, a
> >> wireless connection to the router), then the frontend won't start in the
> >> normal manner, and I'm presented with the language selection menu of the
> >> frontend. Attempting to cancel that just restarts the frontend and it
> >> returns to that menu.
> >>
> >> Is there an easy way around that (assuming that for some reason the
> >> network connection can't be quickly re-established, eg., router
> failure)? Or
> >> have I got the configuration wrong? In other words, must MythTV have a
> >> working network connection for operation?
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >
> > If you look at the upstart configuration, it depends on the non loopback
> > network being up for the backend service to start:
> >
> > start on (local-filesystems and net-device-up IFACE!=lo and started
> > udev-finish)
> >
> > I believe the idea is to ensure that the backend is listening on all
> > interfaces when it starts so that remote clients can connect.
> > I do recall some workaround is to just configure a dummy static eth0
> > interface that always comes up so the script can get on with it, or you
> > could hack that section out of the upstart config
> > (/etc/init/mythtv-backend.conf).
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mythtv-users mailing list
> > mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> > http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
> That is only for the backend, the OP is talking about the frontend.
> The frontend must be able to talk to the backend for it to start
> correctly. All the information about the frontend is kept in the
> database, plus you would need a connection to the backend to playback
> any content. As frontend local content is going away, I don't see this
> changing.
>
> I think he is talking about a combined frontend/backend... frontend is
failing to connect because the backend isn't running yet.

I would adjust your frontend to connect on the loopback adapter of
127.0.0.1. You may need to make sure that mysql and mythbackend are both
listening on loopback, but they typically are by default IIRC.

thomas at mashos

Sep 13, 2012, 8:23 AM

Post #5 of 10 (573 views)
Permalink

Re: No network: no frontend [In reply to]

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 8:21 AM, Joseph Fry <joe [at] thefrys> wrote:
>
>> > On 13/09/2012 9:50 PM, Bob Long wrote:
>> >>
>> >> MythTV Version : v0.25.2-19-gcf06841
>> >> MythTV Branch : fixes/0.25
>> >>
>> >> Combined backend/frontend.
>> >>
>> >> My understanding was that a MythTV box can (should?) be configured so
>> >> that
>> >> its network address is static, and that that IP address be told to the
>> >> backend and to the frontend.
>> >>
>> >> However, if the network for some reason can't connect (in my case, a
>> >> wireless connection to the router), then the frontend won't start in
>> >> the
>> >> normal manner, and I'm presented with the language selection menu of
>> >> the
>> >> frontend. Attempting to cancel that just restarts the frontend and it
>> >> returns to that menu.
>> >>
>> >> Is there an easy way around that (assuming that for some reason the
>> >> network connection can't be quickly re-established, eg., router
>> >> failure)? Or
>> >> have I got the configuration wrong? In other words, must MythTV have a
>> >> working network connection for operation?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks.
>> >>
>> >
>> > If you look at the upstart configuration, it depends on the non loopback
>> > network being up for the backend service to start:
>> >
>> > start on (local-filesystems and net-device-up IFACE!=lo and started
>> > udev-finish)
>> >
>> > I believe the idea is to ensure that the backend is listening on all
>> > interfaces when it starts so that remote clients can connect.
>> > I do recall some workaround is to just configure a dummy static eth0
>> > interface that always comes up so the script can get on with it, or you
>> > could hack that section out of the upstart config
>> > (/etc/init/mythtv-backend.conf).
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > mythtv-users mailing list
>> > mythtv-users [at] mythtv
>> > http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>>
>> That is only for the backend, the OP is talking about the frontend.
>> The frontend must be able to talk to the backend for it to start
>> correctly. All the information about the frontend is kept in the
>> database, plus you would need a connection to the backend to playback
>> any content. As frontend local content is going away, I don't see this
>> changing.
>>
> I think he is talking about a combined frontend/backend... frontend is
> failing to connect because the backend isn't running yet.
>
> I would adjust your frontend to connect on the loopback adapter of
> 127.0.0.1. You may need to make sure that mysql and mythbackend are both
> listening on loopback, but they typically are by default IIRC.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

Ah yea he is, not sure how I missed that the first time I read it.

Thanks,

Thomas Mashos
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

joe at thefrys

Sep 13, 2012, 8:28 AM

Post #6 of 10 (571 views)
Permalink

Re: No network: no frontend [In reply to]

> >> >> MythTV Version : v0.25.2-19-gcf06841
> >> >> MythTV Branch : fixes/0.25
> >> >>
> >> >> Combined backend/frontend.
> >> >>
> >> >> My understanding was that a MythTV box can (should?) be configured so
> >> >> that
> >> >> its network address is static, and that that IP address be told to
> the
> >> >> backend and to the frontend.
> >> >>
> >> >> However, if the network for some reason can't connect (in my case, a
> >> >> wireless connection to the router), then the frontend won't start in
> >> >> the
> >> >> normal manner, and I'm presented with the language selection menu of
> >> >> the
> >> >> frontend. Attempting to cancel that just restarts the frontend and it
> >> >> returns to that menu.
> >> >>
> >> >> Is there an easy way around that (assuming that for some reason the
> >> >> network connection can't be quickly re-established, eg., router
> >> >> failure)? Or
> >> >> have I got the configuration wrong? In other words, must MythTV have
> a
> >> >> working network connection for operation?
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > If you look at the upstart configuration, it depends on the non
> loopback
> >> > network being up for the backend service to start:
> >> >
> >> > start on (local-filesystems and net-device-up IFACE!=lo and started
> >> > udev-finish)
> >> >
> >> > I believe the idea is to ensure that the backend is listening on all
> >> > interfaces when it starts so that remote clients can connect.
> >> > I do recall some workaround is to just configure a dummy static eth0
> >> > interface that always comes up so the script can get on with it, or
> you
> >> > could hack that section out of the upstart config
> >> > (/etc/init/mythtv-backend.conf).
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > mythtv-users mailing list
> >> > mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> >> > http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> >>
> >> That is only for the backend, the OP is talking about the frontend.
> >> The frontend must be able to talk to the backend for it to start
> >> correctly. All the information about the frontend is kept in the
> >> database, plus you would need a connection to the backend to playback
> >> any content. As frontend local content is going away, I don't see this
> >> changing.
> >>
> > I think he is talking about a combined frontend/backend... frontend is
> > failing to connect because the backend isn't running yet.
> >
> > I would adjust your frontend to connect on the loopback adapter of
> > 127.0.0.1. You may need to make sure that mysql and mythbackend are both
> > listening on loopback, but they typically are by default IIRC.
> >
>
>
> Ah yea he is, not sure how I missed that the first time I read it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Thomas Mashos
>
> it's alright... I misspoke myself... I meant that the frontend isn't
connecting because the network hasn't connected yet.

But it could be because the backend hasn't started. Perhaps starting
mythwelcome instead of mythfrontend would give you a good result too.
Essentially it should wait until the network and the backend are up and
allow you to start the frontend. Never used it myself.

michael at thewatsonfamily

Sep 13, 2012, 7:02 PM

Post #7 of 10 (563 views)
Permalink

Re: No network: no frontend [In reply to]

On 13/09/2012 9:50 PM, Bob Long wrote:
> MythTV Version : v0.25.2-19-gcf06841
> MythTV Branch : fixes/0.25
>
> Combined backend/frontend.
>
> My understanding was that a MythTV box can (should?) be configured so
> that its network address is static, and that that IP address be told
> to the backend and to the frontend.
>
> However, if the network for some reason can't connect (in my case, a
> wireless connection to the router), then the frontend won't start in
> the normal manner, and I'm presented with the language selection menu
> of the frontend. Attempting to cancel that just restarts the frontend
> and it returns to that menu.
>
> Is there an easy way around that (assuming that for some reason the
> network connection can't be quickly re-established, eg., router
> failure)? Or have I got the configuration wrong? In other words, must
> MythTV have a working network connection for operation?
>
> Thanks.
>
What OS / Distribution?

I know Ubuntu in default setup, uses Network Manager to start wireless
networks, and thus the wireless network does not start until the user
has logged in, thus the backend will not be listening on the wireless as
it was not available when it started. You can configure the wireless
in /etc/network/interfaces so it comes up when computer is booted.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WiFiHowTo#Adding_it_to_.2BAC8-etc.2BAC8-network.2BAC8-interfaces

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mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

bob at oblong

Sep 14, 2012, 2:12 AM

Post #8 of 10 (560 views)
Permalink

Re: No network: no frontend [In reply to]

Michael Watson wrote,

> What OS / Distribution?

Sorry. Ubuntu 12.04.

> I know Ubuntu in default setup, uses Network Manager to start wireless
> networks, and thus the wireless network does not start until the user
> has logged in, thus the backend will not be listening on the wireless as
> it was not available when it started. You can configure the wireless
> in /etc/network/interfaces so it comes up when computer is booted.
>
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WiFiHowTo#Adding_it_to_.2BAC8-etc.2BAC8-network.2BAC8-interfaces

Auto login, and wireless normally starts automatically, too. So
normally, no problem. But sometimes (I think the router is dodgy)
wireless drops out and even though it's static IP, when that happens
there is no active IP address. In this case, I'll be addressing the
router issue.

But that lead me to wonder, in general, if MythTV can be made to run
standalone with no network connection. Others have suggested using
localhost/127.0.0.1, but I've not tried that. (I know that would defeat
the many advantages of MythTV with multiple frontends, remote access, etc.)

--
Bob Long

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

mikep at randomtraveller

Sep 14, 2012, 3:13 AM

Post #9 of 10 (554 views)
Permalink

Re: No network: no frontend [In reply to]

On 14/09/12 03:02, Michael Watson wrote:
> On 13/09/2012 9:50 PM, Bob Long wrote:
>> MythTV Version : v0.25.2-19-gcf06841
>> MythTV Branch : fixes/0.25
>>
>> Combined backend/frontend.
>>
>> My understanding was that a MythTV box can (should?) be configured so that its
>> network address is static, and that that IP address be told to the backend and
>> to the frontend.
>>
>> However, if the network for some reason can't connect (in my case, a wireless
>> connection to the router), then the frontend won't start in the normal manner,
>> and I'm presented with the language selection menu of the frontend. Attempting
>> to cancel that just restarts the frontend and it returns to that menu.
>>
>> Is there an easy way around that (assuming that for some reason the network
>> connection can't be quickly re-established, eg., router failure)? Or have I
>> got the configuration wrong? In other words, must MythTV have a working
>> network connection for operation?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
> What OS / Distribution?
>
> I know Ubuntu in default setup, uses Network Manager to start wireless networks,
> and thus the wireless network does not start until the user has logged in, thus
> the backend will not be listening on the wireless as it was not available when
> it started. You can configure the wireless in /etc/network/interfaces so it
> comes up when computer is booted.
>
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WiFiHowTo#Adding_it_to_.2BAC8-etc.2BAC8-network.2BAC8-interfaces
>
Yeah. Network Manager seems to be one of those ideas someone had that assumes
*everyone* is using a wifi-connected laptop. Not friendly at all when you have a
mix of servers and statically-assigned bespoke media devices on your hard-wired
network.

My opinion: if you *do* have a wifi-connected laptop, use Network Manager.
Otherwise, get rid of it, it causes more problems than it solves.

--

Mike Perkins

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

joe at thefrys

Sep 14, 2012, 6:09 AM

Post #10 of 10 (552 views)
Permalink

Re: No network: no frontend [In reply to]

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 5:12 AM, Bob Long <bob [at] oblong> wrote:

> Michael Watson wrote,
>
> What OS / Distribution?
>>
>
> Sorry. Ubuntu 12.04.
>
>
> I know Ubuntu in default setup, uses Network Manager to start wireless
>> networks, and thus the wireless network does not start until the user
>> has logged in, thus the backend will not be listening on the wireless as
>> it was not available when it started. You can configure the wireless
>> in /etc/network/interfaces so it comes up when computer is booted.
>>
>> https://help.ubuntu.com/**community/WifiDocs/WiFiHowTo#**
>> Adding_it_to_.2BAC8-etc.2BAC8-**network.2BAC8-interfaces<https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WiFiHowTo#Adding_it_to_.2BAC8-etc.2BAC8-network.2BAC8-interfaces>
>>
>
> Auto login, and wireless normally starts automatically, too. So normally,
> no problem. But sometimes (I think the router is dodgy) wireless drops out
> and even though it's static IP, when that happens there is no active IP
> address. In this case, I'll be addressing the router issue.
>
> But that lead me to wonder, in general, if MythTV can be made to run
> standalone with no network connection. Others have suggested using
> localhost/127.0.0.1, but I've not tried that. (I know that would defeat
> the many advantages of MythTV with multiple frontends, remote access, etc.)

Having the backend and mysql listening on the loopback adapter doesn't
preclude you from also listening on any available network adapters. Just
for the local frontend sake, I would use the local loopback to eliminate
the requirement of having the network up and running.

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