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Suggestions for simplest way to achieve my recording goals.

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gordon.mccrae at gmail

Aug 29, 2012, 11:36 AM

Post #1 of 9 (429 views)
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Suggestions for simplest way to achieve my recording goals.

I've been checking through the system and mail archives, but can't find
anything to cover my specific requirement, perhaps I'm not searching for
the right thing, or just not recognizing it when I see it.

I basically want to record a specific channel for twenty four hours but
at a low priority so that if there's any "real", programmes they takes
precedence.

I tried a manual recording rule, but it didn't kick in at all because
there were other programmes being recorded on the tuner with higher
priorities (at least I'm guessing that's why), and instead of recording
before and after the conflicting programme, it just didn't record
anything at all.

The channel I'm recording is off my one and only satellite tuner, so
that's why I want to give way to any "real" programmes when they are
scheduled.

Is there any easy way to do this, or is it just a case of selecting the
all programmes individually and setting each one with a low priority?

I'm sure someone's already worked this out by now what with things like
the Olympics, World Cup etc.

Cheers
Gordon
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raymond at wagnerrp

Aug 29, 2012, 11:49 AM

Post #2 of 9 (420 views)
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Re: Suggestions for simplest way to achieve my recording goals. [In reply to]

On 8/29/2012 14:36, Gordon McCrae wrote:
> I've been checking through the system and mail archives, but can't find
> anything to cover my specific requirement, perhaps I'm not searching for
> the right thing, or just not recognizing it when I see it.
>
> I basically want to record a specific channel for twenty four hours but
> at a low priority so that if there's any "real", programmes they takes
> precedence.

Create a power rule with a single clause that just checks for the
channel. Set it to a low priority.
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joe at thefrys

Aug 29, 2012, 12:37 PM

Post #3 of 9 (413 views)
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Re: Suggestions for simplest way to achieve my recording goals. [In reply to]

> I've been checking through the system and mail archives, but can't find
>> anything to cover my specific requirement, perhaps I'm not searching for
>> the right thing, or just not recognizing it when I see it.
>>
>> I basically want to record a specific channel for twenty four hours but
>> at a low priority so that if there's any "real", programmes they takes
>> precedence.
>>
>
> Create a power rule with a single clause that just checks for the channel.
> Set it to a low priority.

I think you might still have a problem with show boundaries.

If you create a rule to record every show on channel X, with a low
priority, the scheduler will use that tuner if needed to record a higher
priority show on channel Y. But it will only cut over at show boundaries.

For example if at a given time you run into this scenario:

Channel X: |-----show 1 ------||--------show 2-------|
Channel Y: ----------|-------show 3 ------|--------------

In this case, neither show 1 or show 2 would be recorded at all.

As far as I know, there is no way to tell the scheduler to cut a show off
part way through, or start recording after the show has already started.
At least not as part of a recording schedule... I know you can do it
manually.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

raymond at wagnerrp

Aug 29, 2012, 12:45 PM

Post #4 of 9 (412 views)
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Re: Suggestions for simplest way to achieve my recording goals. [In reply to]

On 8/29/2012 15:37, Joseph Fry wrote:
>
> I've been checking through the system and mail archives, but
> can't find
> anything to cover my specific requirement, perhaps I'm not
> searching for
> the right thing, or just not recognizing it when I see it.
>
> I basically want to record a specific channel for twenty four
> hours but
> at a low priority so that if there's any "real", programmes they
> takes
> precedence.
>
>
> Create a power rule with a single clause that just checks for the
> channel. Set it to a low priority.
>
>
> I think you might still have a problem with show boundaries.
>
> If you create a rule to record every show on channel X, with a low
> priority, the scheduler will use that tuner if needed to record a higher
> priority show on channel Y. But it will only cut over at show boundaries.
>
> For example if at a given time you run into this scenario:
>
> Channel X: |-----show 1 ------||--------show 2-------|
> Channel Y: ----------|-------show 3 ------|--------------
>
> In this case, neither show 1 or show 2 would be recorded at all.
>
> As far as I know, there is no way to tell the scheduler to cut a show
> off part way through, or start recording after the show has already
> started. At least not as part of a recording schedule... I know you can
> do it manually.
>
> Please correct me if I'm wrong.

No, that's correct. The only time it will record a partial showing is
when you manually give it a specific time slot to record. There is no
"allow partials" option.
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roland.sh1000 at gmail

Aug 29, 2012, 1:04 PM

Post #5 of 9 (414 views)
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Re: Suggestions for simplest way to achieve my recording goals. [In reply to]

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Raymond Wagner <raymond [at] wagnerrp> wrote:
> On 8/29/2012 15:37, Joseph Fry wrote:
>>
>>
>> I've been checking through the system and mail archives, but
>> can't find
>> anything to cover my specific requirement, perhaps I'm not
>> searching for
>> the right thing, or just not recognizing it when I see it.
>>
>> I basically want to record a specific channel for twenty four
>> hours but
>> at a low priority so that if there's any "real", programmes they
>> takes
>> precedence.
>>
>>
>> Create a power rule with a single clause that just checks for the
>> channel. Set it to a low priority.
>>
>>
>> I think you might still have a problem with show boundaries.
>>
>> If you create a rule to record every show on channel X, with a low
>> priority, the scheduler will use that tuner if needed to record a higher
>> priority show on channel Y. But it will only cut over at show boundaries.
>>
>> For example if at a given time you run into this scenario:
>>
>> Channel X: |-----show 1 ------||--------show 2-------|
>> Channel Y: ----------|-------show 3 ------|--------------
>>
>> In this case, neither show 1 or show 2 would be recorded at all.
>>
>> As far as I know, there is no way to tell the scheduler to cut a show
>> off part way through, or start recording after the show has already
>> started. At least not as part of a recording schedule... I know you can
>> do it manually.
>>
>> Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>
>
> No, that's correct. The only time it will record a partial showing is when
> you manually give it a specific time slot to record. There is no "allow
> partials" option.

Could you get there using the "Live TV" mode?

If I'm watching "Live TV", it is being recorded to disk.... all the
way up until it is interrupted by a higher priority scheduled
recording. So in this case, "Channel X" (the one being watched on
Live TV) would get the partial recording as desired, and the tuner
would then automatically switch to "Channel Y", half way through Show
1.

What I don't know, however, is what happens after "Show 3" finishes on
Channel Y. Will the Live TV mode switch back to the previous channel
(Channel X) and resume watching (and therefore, recording) that
channel, which is now half way through Show 2? Or will it stay on
Channel Y after Show 3 finishes?

Additional caveats: Live TV auto-expiration, inability to "schedule"
Live TV, etc...

- rsh1k
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raymond at wagnerrp

Aug 29, 2012, 1:23 PM

Post #6 of 9 (413 views)
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Re: Suggestions for simplest way to achieve my recording goals. [In reply to]

On 8/29/2012 16:04, rsh1k wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Raymond Wagner<raymond [at] wagnerrp> wrote:
>> On 8/29/2012 15:37, Joseph Fry wrote:
>>> On 8/29/2012 14:49, Raymond Wagner wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Create a power rule with a single clause that just checks for the
>>>> channel. Set it to a low priority.
>>>>
>>> I think you might still have a problem with show boundaries.
>>>
>>> If you create a rule to record every show on channel X, with a low
>>> priority, the scheduler will use that tuner if needed to record a higher
>>> priority show on channel Y. But it will only cut over at show boundaries.
>>>
>>> For example if at a given time you run into this scenario:
>>>
>>> Channel X: |-----show 1 ------||--------show 2-------|
>>> Channel Y: ----------|-------show 3 ------|--------------
>>>
>>> In this case, neither show 1 or show 2 would be recorded at all.
>>>
>>> As far as I know, there is no way to tell the scheduler to cut a show
>>> off part way through, or start recording after the show has already
>>> started. At least not as part of a recording schedule... I know you can
>>> do it manually.
>>>
>>> Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>>
>> No, that's correct. The only time it will record a partial showing is when
>> you manually give it a specific time slot to record. There is no "allow
>> partials" option.
>
> Could you get there using the "Live TV" mode?

You "could" get there that way, but that would involve writing some
external application that behaved as a frontend maintaining a persistent
Live TV session, automatically flagged the shows as a scheduled
recording that shouldn't be expired immediately, and handled
interruption from scheduled overrides. You would be better off spending
the time to dig through the scheduler code and write a proper "allow
partials" option.

If configured properly, and with sufficient guide data, the existing
scheduler should be able to track repeat episodes, and delay recordings
until a later showing to resolve conflicts.
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nick.rout at gmail

Aug 29, 2012, 11:51 PM

Post #7 of 9 (403 views)
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Re: Suggestions for simplest way to achieve my recording goals. [In reply to]

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 7:37 AM, Joseph Fry <joe [at] thefrys> wrote:
>
>>> I've been checking through the system and mail archives, but can't find
>>> anything to cover my specific requirement, perhaps I'm not searching for
>>> the right thing, or just not recognizing it when I see it.
>>>
>>> I basically want to record a specific channel for twenty four hours but
>>> at a low priority so that if there's any "real", programmes they takes
>>> precedence.
>>
>>
>> Create a power rule with a single clause that just checks for the channel.
>> Set it to a low priority.
>
>
> I think you might still have a problem with show boundaries.
>
> If you create a rule to record every show on channel X, with a low priority,
> the scheduler will use that tuner if needed to record a higher priority show
> on channel Y. But it will only cut over at show boundaries.
>
> For example if at a given time you run into this scenario:
>
> Channel X: |-----show 1 ------||--------show 2-------|
> Channel Y: ----------|-------show 3 ------|--------------
>
> In this case, neither show 1 or show 2 would be recorded at all.
>
> As far as I know, there is no way to tell the scheduler to cut a show off
> part way through, or start recording after the show has already started. At
> least not as part of a recording schedule... I know you can do it manually.
>
> Please correct me if I'm wrong.

multirec may sort some of that, assuming show 3 is on the same mux
(which of course is a big assumption)
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jeremy.dwain.jones at gmail

Aug 30, 2012, 10:18 AM

Post #8 of 9 (399 views)
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Re: Suggestions for simplest way to achieve my recording goals. [In reply to]

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 1:51 AM, Nick Rout <nick.rout [at] gmail> wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 7:37 AM, Joseph Fry <joe [at] thefrys> wrote:
> >
> >>> I've been checking through the system and mail archives, but can't find
> >>> anything to cover my specific requirement, perhaps I'm not searching
> for
> >>> the right thing, or just not recognizing it when I see it.
> >>>
> >>> I basically want to record a specific channel for twenty four hours but
> >>> at a low priority so that if there's any "real", programmes they takes
> >>> precedence.
> >>
> >>
> >> Create a power rule with a single clause that just checks for the
> channel.
> >> Set it to a low priority.
> >
> >
> > I think you might still have a problem with show boundaries.
> >
> > If you create a rule to record every show on channel X, with a low
> priority,
> > the scheduler will use that tuner if needed to record a higher priority
> show
> > on channel Y. But it will only cut over at show boundaries.
> >
> > For example if at a given time you run into this scenario:
> >
> > Channel X: |-----show 1 ------||--------show 2-------|
> > Channel Y: ----------|-------show 3 ------|--------------
> >
> > In this case, neither show 1 or show 2 would be recorded at all.
> >
> > As far as I know, there is no way to tell the scheduler to cut a show off
> > part way through, or start recording after the show has already started.
> At
> > least not as part of a recording schedule... I know you can do it
> manually.
> >
> > Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> multirec may sort some of that, assuming show 3 is on the same mux
> (which of course is a big assumption)
>
> I suppose one could set up 144 different manual recording rules each at 10
minute intervals? Or 288 at 5 minute intervals.

If you try this, I would also setup a 'normal' recording rule with a
slightly higher (still low) priority that would get the full episodes when
the scheduler is able. Then the 10 minute blocks would only kick in if the
scheduler could not work out the complete episode.

Obviously having a partial record option is a better solution. If someone
decides to look into that, I think there needs to be a "grace period"
setting so that the user can specify not to record a partial that would
miss more than xx minutes of the full show. This can get real complex real
quick as I start chasing out all the possible diverging threads here.
Entry in the recording table for partial recording. Auto expire partial
recordings first. Automatically re-record partial recordings.

roland.sh1000 at gmail

Aug 30, 2012, 11:42 AM

Post #9 of 9 (398 views)
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Re: Suggestions for simplest way to achieve my recording goals. [In reply to]

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Jeremy Jones
<jeremy.dwain.jones [at] gmail> wrote:
>
> Obviously having a partial record option is a better solution. If someone
> decides to look into that, I think there needs to be a "grace period"
> setting so that the user can specify not to record a partial that would miss
> more than xx minutes of the full show. This can get real complex real quick
> as I start chasing out all the possible diverging threads here. Entry in
> the recording table for partial recording. Auto expire partial recordings
> first. Automatically re-record partial recordings.
>

Very good points.

Also, the conflict of a high priority partial recording with a low
priority full recording... or even the possibility to re-record only
the part you missed (and add it on to an existing recording?). Throw
the long-term scheduler into the mix, and you are right, it explodes
in complexity. (2x partial high priority recordings trumping a single
continuous high priority?) It could become very ugly for the end
user, with partial recordings everywhere because it was "technically"
what they asked for with the scheduling rules...

Even for your "grace period", that part alone (as I am sure you are
very well aware) could be much more complicated.
For example,
"don't record if more than xx minutes would be missed"
is different from
"don't record if less than xx minutes would be recorded"
which is different from
"don't record if more than xx percent would be missed"

This will be a tricky one for the devs for sure... if they even
decide it is worth implementing.

- rsh1k
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