Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Users

A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users

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ctreleaven at cogeco

Aug 8, 2012, 9:10 AM

Post #26 of 37 (961 views)
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [In reply to]

At 11:54 AM -0400 8/8/12, Joseph Fry wrote:
>Well, that certainly stirred up the hornets nest! One of the best
>things about MythTV (and other Linux/UNIX apps) is the
>involvement of a huge range of users and developers who come to the
>aid of other struggling users with (mostly) helpful
>comments and suggestions.
>
>The comments have been very valid, and yes, I could have just
>installed the MythTV packages. However, I'd still have
>this
>(<http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/525274>http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/525274)
>problem. Last time I used the distribution packages I
>had another sound issue (or was it the dreaded lirc?) which I could
>only resolve with the latest source at the
>time. Marius Ducea has some very apt comments here
>(<http://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/>http://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/).
>I want
>to unclutter the MythTV menus and not install packages that I don't
>use so a source build is needed. I'd also still have
>to fix this
>(<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mythbuntu/+bug/1004974>https://bugs.launchpad.net/mythbuntu/+bug/1004974)
>to fix the Mythbuntu theme which a "user" (ie. spouse)
>spotted within two minutes of using the new system.
>
>
>I think we can all agree that Mythtv documentation is lacking
>somewhat. Please don't take this the wrong way, but rather than
>asking someone else to improve it, why don't you make it your
>personal mission. Perhaps write a distribution agnostic
>compile-from-source guide (with notes for saving time on your distro
>by using precompiled dependancies). Sure, it will take a while,
>especially because your actually trying to figure everything out as
>you go.
>
>The reason that such documentation doesn't exist is because almost
>no one does this, and those that do have no need for documentation.
> Perhaps you can outline the reasons why someone would want to build
>it manually.
>
>...
Instead of documentation--read the source, of one of the packager's
recipes! I've been working on using MacPorts to build Myth. The
osx-packager.pl script was easy enough to follow to determine the
necessary dependencies on OS X. There are a couple of other
packaging scripts in the Packaging repository on GitHub. If they are
being used regularly, you have pretty good assurance that the
dependencies are complete and up-to-date. After that, the configure
script output summarizes what has been found or not. Lather, rinse
and repeat a couple (dozen) times and 'Bob's your uncle'!

Craig

eric at lisaneric

Aug 8, 2012, 9:22 AM

Post #27 of 37 (957 views)
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [In reply to]

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:54 AM, Joseph Fry <joe [at] thefrys> wrote:
> I know I have had reason to build from source in the past, to test a patch
> for example.

But for a non-mythTV developer, the easiest way to test a patch
designed for a current release is to start with the source for the
packaged release for your distribution and modify that, rather than
downloading tarballs from mythTV directly.

For Debian derivatives, it's something like:

apt-get source mythtv
apt-get build-dep mythtv
[patch source]
dpkg-buildpackage
dpkg -i mythtv*.deb

Eric
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nick.rout at gmail

Aug 8, 2012, 3:56 PM

Post #28 of 37 (957 views)
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [In reply to]

On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 1:56 AM, Thomas Mashos <thomas [at] mashos> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 10:59 PM, Nick Rout <nick.rout [at] gmail> wrote:
>> One thing about mint is that it does have mythtv in it's repos, but
>> the mythbuntu repos do not (presently) work with mint.
>
> Please let me know how the Mythbuntu repos don't work with Mint. Are
> you specifically talking about the mythbuntu-repos configuration
> utility? The repos can still be added manually and should work fine on
> Mint.
>
> Thanks,

Ahh that is excellent to know. Yes I meant the automatic configuration
doesn't work. I believe because the distro names are different (maya
vs precise etc) .

I am not actually running myth on my mint laptop yet as the rest of my
setup is still on 0.24 and mint maya will install 0.25, But when I go
to 0.25 all round it's good to know the repos will work.
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junki at internode

Aug 11, 2012, 4:31 PM

Post #29 of 37 (914 views)
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [In reply to]

I think I've finally resolved all my issues with the assistance of the comments in this thread and elsewhere:

For reference, in case anyone has googled:
- Linux Mint 13 / Maya
- Mate / Gnome 2
- MythTV 0.25
- NVIDIA 9800 GT
- Realtek RTL2832U from DigitalNow in Canberra (because three tuners just isn't quite enough sometimes)

I had several issues including:
- Lack of the alsa sound firmware crashed the frontend
- No anti-aliasing
- Still video image remains on top of the menus after escape
- Really bad tearing of the picture
and some others which would have been resolved if I'd done an "apt-get build-dep" in the first place as pointed out.

1. First off, fix the apt sources.list to replace "maya" with "precise" everywhere except for packages.linuxmint.com
before doing a post-installation package update. (MythTV wouldn't even compile without this)
2. As detailed in the DigitalNow website, download the RealTek linux driver from github, build and install.
3. For the build-it-yourself MythTV system, download the latest MythTV and MythPlugins
4. Run apt-get build-dep mythtv
5. configure the MythTV build with --enable-vdpau
6. Build and install MythTV and the plugins
7. Run mythtv-setup add configure in the tuners
8. Run the shepherd program guide gathering system setup
9. In the frontend, set the Setup -> Video -> Playback Profile to vdpau High Quality
10. Run " nvidia-xconfig --no-composite" as suggested on the MythTV VDPAU wiki page
11. Fix the mythbuntu theme recordings-ui.xml
12. In the Mate Desktop Settings -> Windows -> enable "Use Gnome Compositing"
13. Install the mythbackend startup script and run /usr/lib/insseve/insserv to configure it for the various startup levels
14. Set up ntp to keep the time accurate

So basically, there was still a lot of hand assembly and fixing required after the basic builds and installs.

Thanks to those who offered constructive assistance.

Martin
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thomas at mashos

Aug 11, 2012, 5:09 PM

Post #30 of 37 (914 views)
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [In reply to]

On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Martin Brown <junki [at] internode> wrote:
> I think I've finally resolved all my issues with the assistance of the comments in this thread and elsewhere:
>
> For reference, in case anyone has googled:
> - Linux Mint 13 / Maya
> - Mate / Gnome 2
> - MythTV 0.25
> - NVIDIA 9800 GT
> - Realtek RTL2832U from DigitalNow in Canberra (because three tuners just isn't quite enough sometimes)
>
> I had several issues including:
> - Lack of the alsa sound firmware crashed the frontend
> - No anti-aliasing
> - Still video image remains on top of the menus after escape
> - Really bad tearing of the picture
> and some others which would have been resolved if I'd done an "apt-get build-dep" in the first place as pointed out.
>
> 1. First off, fix the apt sources.list to replace "maya" with "precise" everywhere except for packages.linuxmint.com
> before doing a post-installation package update. (MythTV wouldn't even compile without this)
> 2. As detailed in the DigitalNow website, download the RealTek linux driver from github, build and install.
> 3. For the build-it-yourself MythTV system, download the latest MythTV and MythPlugins
> 4. Run apt-get build-dep mythtv
> 5. configure the MythTV build with --enable-vdpau
> 6. Build and install MythTV and the plugins
> 7. Run mythtv-setup add configure in the tuners
> 8. Run the shepherd program guide gathering system setup
> 9. In the frontend, set the Setup -> Video -> Playback Profile to vdpau High Quality
> 10. Run " nvidia-xconfig --no-composite" as suggested on the MythTV VDPAU wiki page
> 11. Fix the mythbuntu theme recordings-ui.xml
> 12. In the Mate Desktop Settings -> Windows -> enable "Use Gnome Compositing"
> 13. Install the mythbackend startup script and run /usr/lib/insseve/insserv to configure it for the various startup levels
> 14. Set up ntp to keep the time accurate
>
> So basically, there was still a lot of hand assembly and fixing required after the basic builds and installs.
>
> Thanks to those who offered constructive assistance.
>
> Martin
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

You compiled from source. Wouldn't hand assembly and fixing be
expected even after the basic build and install? The MythTV devs
aren't going to add stuff like the upstart scripts to MythTV as that
would make zero sense on a Redhat system.

Thanks,

Thomas Mashos
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mtdean at thirdcontact

Aug 12, 2012, 3:43 AM

Post #31 of 37 (907 views)
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [In reply to]

On 08/11/2012 07:31 PM, Martin Brown wrote:
> I think I've finally resolved all my issues with the assistance of the comments in this thread and elsewhere:
>
> For reference, in case anyone has googled:
> - Linux Mint 13 / Maya
> - Mate / Gnome 2
> - MythTV 0.25
> - NVIDIA 9800 GT
> - Realtek RTL2832U from DigitalNow in Canberra (because three tuners just isn't quite enough sometimes)
>
> I had several issues including:
> - Lack of the alsa sound firmware crashed the frontend
> - No anti-aliasing
> - Still video image remains on top of the menus after escape
> - Really bad tearing of the picture
> and some others which would have been resolved if I'd done an "apt-get build-dep" in the first place as pointed out.
>
> 1. First off, fix the apt sources.list to replace "maya" with "precise" everywhere except for packages.linuxmint.com
> before doing a post-installation package update. (MythTV wouldn't even compile without this)
> 2. As detailed in the DigitalNow website, download the RealTek linux driver from github, build and install.
> 3. For the build-it-yourself MythTV system, download the latest MythTV and MythPlugins
> 4. Run apt-get build-dep mythtv
> 5. configure the MythTV build with --enable-vdpau

FWIW, there is no (good) reason to specify --enable-vdpau. It's enabled
automatically if (and only if) you have properly installed libvdpau. If
you haven't properly installed libvdpau, you will need to before
--enable-vdpau will actually enable VDPAU, so... (Note that this is why
the ./configure --help shows the option, "--disable-vdpau"--which you
would use if you've installed libvdpau, but your libvdpau install is
broken and (for some reason) you don't want to fix it. Note, also, that
libvdpau is independent of NVIDIA drivers, so having libvdpau
installed/configuring MythTV such that it enables VDPAU and using it on
an AMD-based-graphics system is not a case of "install is broken.")

> 6. Build and install MythTV and the plugins
> 7. Run mythtv-setup add configure in the tuners
> 8. Run the shepherd program guide gathering system setup
> 9. In the frontend, set the Setup -> Video -> Playback Profile to vdpau High Quality
> 10. Run " nvidia-xconfig --no-composite" as suggested on the MythTV VDPAU wiki page
> 11. Fix the mythbuntu theme recordings-ui.xml

Have you submitted a bug report about Mythbuntu theme's
recordings-ui.xml breakage--with patch, ideally?

https://github.com/MythTV-Themes/Mythbuntu/issues and/or even just
sending an e-mail with the appropriate information to this list is
likely to get the issue noticed so that it can be fixed for everyone else.

> 12. In the Mate Desktop Settings -> Windows -> enable "Use Gnome Compositing"
> 13. Install the mythbackend startup script and run /usr/lib/insseve/insserv to configure it for the various startup levels
> 14. Set up ntp to keep the time accurate
>
> So basically, there was still a lot of hand assembly and fixing required after the basic builds and installs.
>
> Thanks to those who offered constructive assistance.

Note that that "hand assembly and fixing" is exactly what a MythTV
distro (such as Mythbuntu and LinHES) is all about. Mythbuntu is
nothing more than Ubuntu that's already been properly configured (at the
low level) for MythTV use--including choice of and configuration of an
appropriate desktop environment/window manager, configuration of
underlying sound system, etc. If you start with plain-vanilla Ubuntu
and install MythTV on top of that--and do it properly--at the end,
you'll basically have just done all the work that the Mythbuntu guys
already did (or, if you use the Mythbuntu repos, you'll have done all
the low-level system configuration work that the Mythbuntu guys already
did).

IMHO, distro choice for a MythTV system should be made according to the
old adage: "Use the right tool for the job." I have a list of the 3
worst-possible choices of distro for use with MythTV, but unfortunately
it seems a lot of users like to use 2 of them. In so doing, they're
only making things hard on themselves, so I suppose if they like to
waste their own time/energy, more power to them.

(Note that Mint is not among the 3 distros on my list. Mint is a good
choice--particularly if you enable the Mythbuntu repos and use the
packages that are maintained by the Mythbuntu team. Those guys spend a
/lot/ of time keeping up with the development of MythTV, speaking with
the devs about changes and how those changes affect their distro and its
configuration requirements, and keeping the builds up-to-date and
properly working. IMHO, they are the model of a good packaging team.
It's a shame that more people don't choose to benefit from their efforts
and choose to replicate the work--and, even worse, the time they spend
learning what's required--the Mythbuntu team does. It seems that
Fedora's RPM Fusion repos are good, too, but I don't know enough about
them to make any useful comments.)

Mike
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nick.rout at gmail

Aug 12, 2012, 4:20 AM

Post #32 of 37 (899 views)
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [In reply to]

On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 10:43 PM, Michael T. Dean
<mtdean [at] thirdcontact> wrote:
> On 08/11/2012 07:31 PM, Martin Brown wrote:
>>

>
> IMHO, distro choice for a MythTV system should be made according to the old
> adage: "Use the right tool for the job." I have a list of the 3
> worst-possible choices of distro for use with MythTV, but unfortunately it
> seems a lot of users like to use 2 of them.

At the risk of a flame war, would you like to share that list, with reasons?
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richard.e.morton at gmail

Aug 12, 2012, 4:41 AM

Post #33 of 37 (900 views)
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [In reply to]

As a relative linux noob; I tried fedora & ubuntu when I just started with
Linux. I liked the concept of sudo and I didnt like that so many commands
were different between the two distributions so I standardised on *buntu
(or debian derivatives if you prefer).

I still subscribe to the thinking of making life easy for yourself and
learning a single distribution is enough work for a hobby; learning redhat
and debian and slackware and gentoo, just to work out which is the best is
just too big a barrier of entry for most newbies... no wonder they get
frustrated and go back to windoze. which brings me back to a comment about
the original question above...

In my view I am willing to have something which is only 99% optimised for
myth in order to have similar distributions for desktop&server i.e. the
*buntu/debian/mint family, the *dora/centos/redhat family. etc.

Anyway; Micheal; would you mind sharing your top 3 myth distributions?

R

mtdean at thirdcontact

Aug 12, 2012, 5:45 AM

Post #34 of 37 (896 views)
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [In reply to]

On 08/12/2012 07:20 AM, Nick Rout wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 10:43 PM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>> IMHO, distro choice for a MythTV system should be made according to the old
>> adage: "Use the right tool for the job." I have a list of the 3
>> worst-possible choices of distro for use with MythTV, but unfortunately it
>> seems a lot of users like to use 2 of them.
> At the risk of a flame war, would you like to share that list, with reasons?

That risk (or, near certainty, as the case may be) is exactly why I
didn't share the list of the bottom 3 distros. I'm guessing that
sharing it will cause more problems than benefit, since someone who has
already decided to use one of those 3 will almost always find a way to
rationalize the decision/call me wrong/decide that they are a special
case or <distro> expert for whom the normal rules don't apply/...

Mike
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mtdean at thirdcontact

Aug 12, 2012, 5:45 AM

Post #35 of 37 (893 views)
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [In reply to]

On 08/12/2012 07:41 AM, Richard Morton wrote:
> As a relative linux noob; I tried fedora & ubuntu when I just started
> with Linux. I liked the concept of sudo and I didnt like that so many
> commands were different between the two distributions so I
> standardised on *buntu (or debian derivatives if you prefer).
>
> I still subscribe to the thinking of making life easy for yourself and
> learning a single distribution is enough work for a hobby; learning
> redhat and debian and slackware and gentoo, just to work out which is
> the best is just too big a barrier of entry for most newbies... no
> wonder they get frustrated and go back to windoze. which brings me
> back to a comment about the original question above...
>
> In my view I am willing to have something which is only 99% optimised
> for myth in order to have similar distributions for desktop&server
> i.e. the *buntu/debian/mint family, the *dora/centos/redhat family. etc.

Yes, and I think that's a /very/ good approach. If you like
Debian-based systems, use *buntu or Mint with Mythbuntu repos for your
MythTV box. If you like Red-Hat-based systems, use Fedora or whatever
works with RPM Fusion for your MythTV box. If you like Arch-based
systems, use LinHES.

> Anyway; Micheal; would you mind sharing your top 3 myth distributions?

I'm happy to share my opinion on the *top* 3 MythTV distributions.
(Bottom 3 still withheld.)

In no particular order, the top 3 distributions to use for MythTV are:
Mythbuntu or any Ubuntu-derivative with which you can use the Mythbuntu
repos (so, includes Mint); LinHES; Fedora or any Red-Hat-based distro
with which you can use the RPM Fusion repos.

Mike

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kkuphal at gmail

Aug 13, 2012, 7:25 AM

Post #36 of 37 (858 views)
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [In reply to]

On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 5:43 AM, Michael T. Dean <mtdean [at] thirdcontact>wrote:

>
> IMHO, distro choice for a MythTV system should be made according to the
> old adage: "Use the right tool for the job." I have a list of the 3
> worst-possible choices of distro for use with MythTV, but unfortunately it
> seems a lot of users like to use 2 of them. In so doing, they're only
> making things hard on themselves, so I suppose if they like to waste their
> own time/energy, more power to them.
>

But I *like* CentOS :)

I imagine it is on your list. That being said, my CentOS based system is
working (I'm more familiar with Redhat/Fedora based distributions and like
the relative stability CentOS provides compared to the fast moving Fedora).
I've also had to do my share of wasting time and energy to get it working
at times. I also don't touch it once it is working until something in the
MythTV minimum requirements forces me to move (QT)

Kevin

mtdean at thirdcontact

Aug 13, 2012, 7:55 AM

Post #37 of 37 (853 views)
Permalink

Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [In reply to]

On 08/13/2012 10:25 AM, Kevin Kuphal wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 5:43 AM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>> IMHO, distro choice for a MythTV system should be made according to the
>> old adage: "Use the right tool for the job." I have a list of the 3
>> worst-possible choices of distro for use with MythTV, but unfortunately it
>> seems a lot of users like to use 2 of them. In so doing, they're only
>> making things hard on themselves, so I suppose if they like to waste their
>> own time/energy, more power to them.
>>
> But I *like* CentOS :)
>
> I imagine it is on your list.

Hehe, it's not on my "worst 3" list.

> That being said, my CentOS based system is
> working (I'm more familiar with Redhat/Fedora based distributions and like
> the relative stability CentOS provides compared to the fast moving Fedora).
> I've also had to do my share of wasting time and energy to get it working
> at times. I also don't touch it once it is working until something in the
> MythTV minimum requirements forces me to move (QT)
>

Aren't there MythTV packages for CentOS available through RPM Fusion?
If so, it's probably on the lower-end of the "any Red-Hat-based distro
with which you can use the RPM Fusion repos" in my top-3 distributions
to use for MythTV list. The only reason it (and, similarly RHEL) is on
the lower end of the RPM Fusion distros list is because it tends to have
some old versions of libraries and system components which are used with
MythTV, which may make it challenging to use with a "cutting-edge media
center application". But, if you're willing to work around or live with
the limitations, CentOS/RHEL aren't a terrible choice of distro.

Mike
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