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emillham at gmail

Aug 10, 2012, 12:15 PM

Post #1 of 14 (579 views)
Permalink
HDHR fails

Hi, I've seen a few threads on this in the past.
I have 0.25-fixes. I have random HDHR fails.
I have found the only way to fix them is to go into the setup cards
advanced tab and change the number of tuners from 1-2 or from 2-1.
I headed here after seeing the log error mentioned multiplexing.
It seems to toggle back and forth which setting will work and I've yet to
see the pattern.
Thought this might save someone some time until the issue is fixed.


joe at thefrys

Aug 10, 2012, 11:15 PM

Post #2 of 14 (562 views)
Permalink
Re: HDHR fails [In reply to]

>
> Hi, I've seen a few threads on this in the past.
> I have 0.25-fixes. I have random HDHR fails.
> I have found the only way to fix them is to go into the setup cards
> advanced tab and change the number of tuners from 1-2 or from 2-1.
> I headed here after seeing the log error mentioned multiplexing.
> It seems to toggle back and forth which setting will work and I've yet to
> see the pattern.
> Thought this might save someone some time until the issue is fixed.
>

Sounds like your talking about the HDHR prime. If that's the case then
yes, you cannot use multiplexes when using a cable card. If your using
QAM, or ATSC (on a non-prime HDHR) then you can set this as high as you
think your system will handle/need. I have each tuner in my 1st Gen HDHR
set to 4 virtual tuners as my cable provider puts all my favorite QAM
channels on the same multiplex.


monkeypet at gmail

Aug 11, 2012, 11:46 AM

Post #3 of 14 (559 views)
Permalink
Re: HDHR fails [In reply to]

I solved my random HDHR issues when I moved my 2 HD homeruns to its own
dedicated network. For some reason (very strange), it was causing lots of
issues including: crashing my cable modem, stuttering while playing livetv
on remote frontends, and some failed recordings. When i isolated the HD
homeruns to its own network which was connected to the backend, it solved
all the issues. Maybe it was luck with the fixes in 0.25/fixes coming at
the same time? I have no idea. However, i did some issues that people
reported with the HD homeruns and networking stuff awhile back also.

My network consisted of unmanaged GigE switches.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 11:15 PM, Joseph Fry <joe [at] thefrys> wrote:

> Hi, I've seen a few threads on this in the past.
>> I have 0.25-fixes. I have random HDHR fails.
>> I have found the only way to fix them is to go into the setup cards
>> advanced tab and change the number of tuners from 1-2 or from 2-1.
>> I headed here after seeing the log error mentioned multiplexing.
>> It seems to toggle back and forth which setting will work and I've yet to
>> see the pattern.
>> Thought this might save someone some time until the issue is fixed.
>>
>
> Sounds like your talking about the HDHR prime. If that's the case then
> yes, you cannot use multiplexes when using a cable card. If your using
> QAM, or ATSC (on a non-prime HDHR) then you can set this as high as you
> think your system will handle/need. I have each tuner in my 1st Gen HDHR
> set to 4 virtual tuners as my cable provider puts all my favorite QAM
> channels on the same multiplex.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>


bkamen at benjammin

Aug 11, 2012, 12:40 PM

Post #4 of 14 (557 views)
Permalink
Re: HDHR fails [In reply to]

On 2012-08-11 1:46 PM, Monkey Pet wrote:
> I solved my random HDHR issues when I moved my 2 HD homeruns to its own dedicated network. For some reason (very strange), it was causing lots of issues including: crashing my cable modem, stuttering while playing livetv on remote frontends, and some failed recordings. When i isolated the HD homeruns to its own network which was connected to the backend, it solved all the issues. Maybe it was luck with the fixes in 0.25/fixes coming at the same time? I have no idea. However, i did some issues that people reported with the HD homeruns and networking stuff awhile back also.
>
> My network consisted of unmanaged GigE switches.

Interesting.

I have GigE switches as well -- and have just put the HDHR up and running so far with no noticeable hiccups on the net.

I also have ZoneMinder running which consistently consumes about 5-6Mb of bandwidth into the backend (which is also the ZM machine).

When you say your put the HDHR's onto their own dedicated network, was that via VLAN's or through separate ethernet all the way into a separate NIC on the Backend?

Also, if I may ask, what brand/model were the switches and were they managed or unmanaged?

Cheers,

-Ben

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bkamen at benjammin

Aug 11, 2012, 12:41 PM

Post #5 of 14 (561 views)
Permalink
Re: HDHR fails [In reply to]

On 2012-08-11 1:46 PM, Monkey Pet wrote:
>
> My network consisted of unmanaged GigE switches.


oops, - unmanaged. I see that. Durp.


--
Ben Kamen - O.D.T., S.P.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
eMail: ben [at] benjammin http://www.benjammin.net
http://www.linkedin.com/in/benkamen
Fortune says:
It would be illogical to assume that all conditions remain stable.
-- Spock, "The Enterprise" Incident", stardate 5027.3
- -
NOTICE: All legal disclaimers sent to benjammin.net/benkamen.net
or any of it's affiliated domains are rendered null and void on
receipt of communications will be handled/considered as such.

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mythtv at theanthonys

Aug 11, 2012, 6:41 PM

Post #6 of 14 (554 views)
Permalink
Re: HDHR fails [In reply to]

Doesn't HDHR stream over udp?

That has no data integrity in the protocol so unless the driver implements it (I don't know but I doubt it does) lost packets are not retransmitted.

That means that if you flood the network with other traffic you'll lose data.

I put mine on its own bit of cable and its own NIC on my myth server to prevent this, as my myth server also works as a file server for the network. It also means that if I need to reboot my switch/inet router, I don't impact any recording. With a managed switch, you could add a NIC and LACP it to avoid flooding, but the switch is still an unnecessary point of failure. If you're running myth, there's probably little reason to have the HDHR on the main network as myth should be controlling it. Plus, the HDHR is 100mb/s not gig/e, so pretty much any old nic will do. I think I have an ancient 3c905.
--

On 12/08/2012, at 5:41 AM, Ben Kamen wrote:

> On 2012-08-11 1:46 PM, Monkey Pet wrote:
>>
>> My network consisted of unmanaged GigE switches.
>
>
> oops, - unmanaged. I see that. Durp.
>
>
> --
> Ben Kamen - O.D.T., S.P.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> eMail: http://www.benjammin.net
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/benkamen
> Fortune says:
> It would be illogical to assume that all conditions remain stable.
> -- Spock, "The Enterprise" Incident", stardate 5027.3
> - -
> NOTICE: All legal disclaimers sent to benjammin.net/benkamen.net
> or any of it's affiliated domains are rendered null and void on
> receipt of communications will be handled/considered as such.
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

_______________________________________________
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joe at thefrys

Aug 11, 2012, 9:56 PM

Post #7 of 14 (548 views)
Permalink
Re: HDHR fails [In reply to]

>
> I put mine on its own bit of cable and its own NIC on my myth server to
> prevent this, as my myth server also works as a file server for the
> network. It also means that if I need to reboot my switch/inet router, I
> don't impact any recording. With a managed switch, you could add a NIC and
> LACP it to avoid flooding, but the switch is still an unnecessary point of
> failure. If you're running myth, there's probably little reason to have
> the HDHR on the main network as myth should be controlling it. Plus, the
> HDHR is 100mb/s not gig/e, so pretty much any old nic will do. I think I
> have an ancient 3c905.
>

Been running mine that way for just about as long as I have it. Rock solid.

I did move my ATSC HDHR to the switch, simple because I can use the HDHR
android app and position the antenna from up on the roof... that rocked, so
much easier than lugging my laptop up there!


sgtbundy at gmail

Aug 12, 2012, 3:03 AM

Post #8 of 14 (543 views)
Permalink
Re: HDHR fails [In reply to]

In my experience not all GigE switches are equal. I had a no-name
brand GigE switch that would choke once you tried to push any more than
30MB/s between machines (the only two on the switch). I replaced that
with a 5 port Netgear and could benchmark 100MB/s over NFS with no other
changes. Down the track I started getting networking issues that
appeared to be packet drops under load and after trying a few NIC
changes was about to blame my home cabling job until I thought to take
the switch out of the mix. Somehow the switch was dropping packets but
being unmanaged I had no stats to tell me that other than what appeared
on the hosts.

TL;DR - buy a decent quality switch, managed if you can afford it.

On 12/08/2012 4:46 AM, Monkey Pet wrote:
> I solved my random HDHR issues when I moved my 2 HD homeruns to its
> own dedicated network. For some reason (very strange), it was causing
> lots of issues including: crashing my cable modem, stuttering while
> playing livetv on remote frontends, and some failed recordings. When
> i isolated the HD homeruns to its own network which was connected to
> the backend, it solved all the issues. Maybe it was luck with the
> fixes in 0.25/fixes coming at the same time? I have no idea.
> However, i did some issues that people reported with the HD homeruns
> and networking stuff awhile back also.
>
> My network consisted of unmanaged GigE switches.
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 11:15 PM, Joseph Fry <joe [at] thefrys
> <mailto:joe [at] thefrys>> wrote:
>
> Hi, I've seen a few threads on this in the past.
> I have 0.25-fixes. I have random HDHR fails.
> I have found the only way to fix them is to go into the setup
> cards advanced tab and change the number of tuners from 1-2 or
> from 2-1.
> I headed here after seeing the log error mentioned multiplexing.
> It seems to toggle back and forth which setting will work and
> I've yet to see the pattern.
> Thought this might save someone some time until the issue is
> fixed.
>
>
> Sounds like your talking about the HDHR prime. If that's the case
> then yes, you cannot use multiplexes when using a cable card. If
> your using QAM, or ATSC (on a non-prime HDHR) then you can set
> this as high as you think your system will handle/need. I have
> each tuner in my 1st Gen HDHR set to 4 virtual tuners as my cable
> provider puts all my favorite QAM channels on the same multiplex.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv <mailto:mythtv-users [at] mythtv>
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


mythtv at theanthonys

Aug 12, 2012, 3:59 AM

Post #9 of 14 (549 views)
Permalink
Re: HDHR fails [In reply to]

I think HDHR steams over UDP which is not fault tolerant at the protocol level and I doubt the little box has extra data integrity built in. NFS has data integrity so it will work fine, even if there is packet loss.

I'd stick the HDHR box on its own 100meg cable/nic without a switch straight into the myth backend. You save gig ports and its more robust as you can reboot your switch without affecting recordings. With myth controlling the box, there's little reason to keep it on your main network. Just set your myth box to server dhcp (fix the address) to the HDHR segment and you should be fine.

You could try LACP between your switch and your myth box to stop one other box from flooding the entire link, especially if you are using UDP NFS. The dedicated HDHR segment with no switch has worked well for me so far, even with a really lower-power AMD 1800+ single core and 512Mb ram.

--

On 12/08/2012, at 8:03 PM, Adrian Saul wrote:

>
> In my experience not all GigE switches are equal. I had a no-name brand GigE switch that would choke once you tried to push any more than 30MB/s between machines (the only two on the switch). I replaced that with a 5 port Netgear and could benchmark 100MB/s over NFS with no other changes. Down the track I started getting networking issues that appeared to be packet drops under load and after trying a few NIC changes was about to blame my home cabling job until I thought to take the switch out of the mix. Somehow the switch was dropping packets but being unmanaged I had no stats to tell me that other than what appeared on the hosts.
>
> TL;DR - buy a decent quality switch, managed if you can afford it.
>
> On 12/08/2012 4:46 AM, Monkey Pet wrote:
>> I solved my random HDHR issues when I moved my 2 HD homeruns to its own dedicated network. For some reason (very strange), it was causing lots of issues including: crashing my cable modem, stuttering while playing livetv on remote frontends, and some failed recordings. When i isolated the HD homeruns to its own network which was connected to the backend, it solved all the issues. Maybe it was luck with the fixes in 0.25/fixes coming at the same time? I have no idea. However, i did some issues that people reported with the HD homeruns and networking stuff awhile back also.
>>
>> My network consisted of unmanaged GigE switches.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 11:15 PM, Joseph Fry <joe [at] thefrys> wrote:
>> Hi, I've seen a few threads on this in the past.
>> I have 0.25-fixes. I have random HDHR fails.
>> I have found the only way to fix them is to go into the setup cards advanced tab and change the number of tuners from 1-2 or from 2-1.
>> I headed here after seeing the log error mentioned multiplexing.
>> It seems to toggle back and forth which setting will work and I've yet to see the pattern.
>> Thought this might save someone some time until the issue is fixed.
>>
>> Sounds like your talking about the HDHR prime. If that's the case then yes, you cannot use multiplexes when using a cable card. If your using QAM, or ATSC (on a non-prime HDHR) then you can set this as high as you think your system will handle/need. I have each tuner in my 1st Gen HDHR set to 4 virtual tuners as my cable provider puts all my favorite QAM channels on the same multiplex.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mythtv-users mailing list
>> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
>> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mythtv-users mailing list
>> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
>> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


joe at thefrys

Aug 12, 2012, 9:01 AM

Post #10 of 14 (537 views)
Permalink
Re: HDHR fails [In reply to]

>
>
> I'd stick the HDHR box on its own 100meg cable/nic without a switch
> straight into the myth backend. You save gig ports and its more robust as
> you can reboot your switch without affecting recordings. With myth
> controlling the box, there's little reason to keep it on your main network.
> Just set your myth box to server dhcp (fix the address) to the HDHR
> segment and you should be fine.
>

Yes, direct cabling the HDHR to a cheap PCI nic works great.

However, you do NOT need to have the backend serve DHCP to the HDHR. Just
set the dedicated NIC to a static 169.254.x.x address with a 255.255.0.0
netmask (no gateway or dns). The HDHR gets a link local address
(169.254.x.x) almost immediately after it boots. Sure it pulls a different
address on every boot, but you should never configure the backend to
connect it by IP anyway, so it doesn't matter if it changes every time the
HDHR starts.

My /etc/network/interfaces file looks like this, no other config necessary
for the HDHR segment:

--------------------------------------------------
# primary NIC
auto eth0
iface eth0 inet static
address 192.168.15.100
gateway 192.168.15.1
netmask 255.255.255.0

# HDHR
auto eth1
iface eth1 inet static
address 169.254.15.100
netmask 255.255.0.0
--------------------------------------------------


bkamen at benjammin

Aug 12, 2012, 10:46 AM

Post #11 of 14 (536 views)
Permalink
Re: HDHR fails [In reply to]

On 2012-08-12 5:03 AM, Adrian Saul wrote:
>
> In my experience not all GigE switches are equal.

Absolutely. This is why I asked. It's helpful to have everyone else on the list know X brand might be problematic.

Personally, I'm using (3) D-Link DGS-1216T Managed GigE switches's. There's one in the house (where the cablemodem/fw/HDHR sit) that's connected via multi-mode fiber to my shop/office (converted 2floor garage) where the other 2 sit with all my hardware.

I use PRTG (eventually MRTG) to monitor their BW counters... but so far... they've worked well.

So if anyone else is wondering.

-Ben

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http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


monkeypet at gmail

Aug 12, 2012, 11:06 AM

Post #12 of 14 (538 views)
Permalink
Re: HDHR fails [In reply to]

On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 10:46 AM, Ben Kamen <bkamen [at] benjammin> wrote:

> On 2012-08-12 5:03 AM, Adrian Saul wrote:
>
>>
>> In my experience not all GigE switches are equal.
>>
>
> Absolutely. This is why I asked. It's helpful to have everyone else on the
> list know X brand might be problematic.
>
> Personally, I'm using (3) D-Link DGS-1216T Managed GigE switches's.
> There's one in the house (where the cablemodem/fw/HDHR sit) that's
> connected via multi-mode fiber to my shop/office (converted 2floor garage)
> where the other 2 sit with all my hardware.
>

I have a cheapo Fry brand unmanaged GigE swich. Also an airport extreme
base station.

This is the configuration that had issues:

mythbackend ---->
HDHR 1 -----> Fry's GigE Unmanaged -----> Fry's GigE Unmanaged
(Central Switch) ---> Airport Extreme GigE Switch/Base station ----->
Remote Frontend
HDHR 2 ------->


Here was what worked:

(this is the HDHR network)
HDHR1/2 ----> Linksys 10/100 Mbit Router/Switch (ddwrt) ----> Mythbackend
(dedicated NIC)

(this is the house network)
Mythbackend (another NIC) ---> Fry's GigE Unmanaged -----> Fry's GigE
Unmanaged (Central Switch) ---> Airport Extreme Switch/Base station ----->
Remote Frontend


>
> I use PRTG (eventually MRTG) to monitor their BW counters... but so far...
> they've worked well.
>
> So if anyone else is wondering.
>
> -Ben
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/**listinfo/mythtv-users<http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users>
>


mythtv at theanthonys

Aug 12, 2012, 5:23 PM

Post #13 of 14 (534 views)
Permalink
Re: HDHR fails [In reply to]

True - especially about not using IP to connect - I had problems for ages because I did that - somewhere between for seconds and 5 minutes in, the recording would just cut off.

Is the self-assigned address consistent? Otherwise you'll need nmap to find it (for firmware upgrades etc).

I got a bit wrapped up in my own little world - I serve dhcp from my myth box because it allows local DNS and PXE booting which my internet router doesn't. When work laptops come home, they PXE boot mythbuntu off the network and run as frontends - no need for USB keys or to touch the laptops' hard disks. That also works well off even just 100mbit links.

If you're not doing DHCP/DNS however, adding dhcp might be more trouble than its worth.
--

On 13/08/2012, at 2:01 AM, Joseph Fry wrote:

>
> I'd stick the HDHR box on its own 100meg cable/nic without a switch straight into the myth backend. You save gig ports and its more robust as you can reboot your switch without affecting recordings. With myth controlling the box, there's little reason to keep it on your main network. Just set your myth box to server dhcp (fix the address) to the HDHR segment and you should be fine.
>
> Yes, direct cabling the HDHR to a cheap PCI nic works great.
>
> However, you do NOT need to have the backend serve DHCP to the HDHR. Just set the dedicated NIC to a static 169.254.x.x address with a 255.255.0.0 netmask (no gateway or dns). The HDHR gets a link local address (169.254.x.x) almost immediately after it boots. Sure it pulls a different address on every boot, but you should never configure the backend to connect it by IP anyway, so it doesn't matter if it changes every time the HDHR starts.
>
> My /etc/network/interfaces file looks like this, no other config necessary for the HDHR segment:
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> # primary NIC
> auto eth0
> iface eth0 inet static
> address 192.168.15.100
> gateway 192.168.15.1
> netmask 255.255.255.0
>
> # HDHR
> auto eth1
> iface eth1 inet static
> address 169.254.15.100
> netmask 255.255.0.0
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


joe at thefrys

Aug 13, 2012, 6:17 AM

Post #14 of 14 (520 views)
Permalink
Re: HDHR fails [In reply to]

> True - especially about not using IP to connect - I had problems for ages
> because I did that - somewhere between for seconds and 5 minutes in, the
> recording would just cut off.
>
> Is the self-assigned address consistent? Otherwise you'll need nmap to
> find it (for firmware upgrades etc).
>

No, it pulls a new address on every restart of the HDHR. However
homerunconfig --discover and the GUI tool both discover it just fine. The
only time I needed to know the IP is when I was setting up my prime and
wanted to be sure the cablecard paired, so I wanted to use the built in
webserver. But I just used hdhomerun --config to see the hostname for the
HDHR, and pinged the hostname to get the ip.


> I got a bit wrapped up in my own little world - I serve dhcp from my myth
> box because it allows local DNS and PXE booting which my internet router
> doesn't. When work laptops come home, they PXE boot mythbuntu off the
> network and run as frontends - no need for USB keys or to touch the
> laptops' hard disks. That also works well off even just 100mbit links.
>

Yeah, if your already running DHCP/DNS on the box, then it's a no-brainer.
I always use my DD-WRT router for DNS.


> If you're not doing DHCP/DNS however, adding dhcp might be more trouble
> than its worth.
>
>
Might?

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