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Live TV playback frustration

 

 

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mtdean at thirdcontact

Aug 27, 2012, 6:25 AM

Post #126 of 138 (1809 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV playback frustration [In reply to]

On 08/27/2012 02:50 AM, mikkel wrote:
>
> I find (using .24+fixes) that LiveTV works ok. It is only a matter of
> bugs and users being frustrated because they cannot change channel do
> to an ongoing recording. And this frustration is basically due to the
> lack of information. I believe the above would help a lot.
>

But in 0.25+, it will actually allow users to change channel even if the
physical tuner is locked on a mux or if the requested channel is on
another video source.

Mike
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mikkel at broerne

Aug 27, 2012, 6:40 AM

Post #127 of 138 (1825 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV playback frustration [In reply to]

On 27-08-2012 15:25, Michael T. Dean wrote:

> On 08/27/2012 02:50
AM, mikkel wrote:
>
>> I find (using .24+fixes) that LiveTV works ok.
It is only a matter of bugs and users being frustrated because they
cannot change channel do to an ongoing recording. And this frustration
is basically due to the lack of information. I believe the above would
help a lot.
>
> But in 0.25+, it will actually allow users to change
channel even if the
> physical tuner is locked on a mux or if the
requested channel is on
> another video source.
>
> Mike
>
_______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing
list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
>
http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

Well based on all
the comments in this and other threads I have been holding off on an
upgrade. I have install scripts and disks ready, but I guess I will have
to wait undetil .26 rolls out.

But would it be an idea to gather
information like I suggest to support the dev's? I will gladly help if
the work will be used

Cheers

Mik


joe at thefrys

Aug 27, 2012, 8:00 AM

Post #128 of 138 (1805 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV playback frustration [In reply to]

On 08/27/2012 02:50 AM, mikkel wrote:

> I find (using .24+fixes) that LiveTV works ok. It is only a matter of bugs
> and users being frustrated because they cannot change channel do to an
> ongoing recording. And this frustration is basically due to the lack of
> information. I believe the above would help a lot.
>
> But in 0.25+, it will actually allow users to change channel even if the
> physical tuner is locked on a mux or if the requested channel is on
> another video source.en holding off on an upgrade. I have install scripts and disks ready, but I guess I will have to wait undetil .26 rolls out.
>
> But would it be an idea to gather information like I suggest to support
> the dev's? I will gladly help if the work will be used
>
>
> Don't hesitate to upgrade to 0.25 based on our discussion... LiveTV works
well as it was designed, but we were discussion how to improve the
design... really just throwing ideas out there. My only real complaint is
that it is commflagging live tv still, it was fixed in 0.26, but not
backported yet (that I'm aware of).


thomas at mashos

Aug 27, 2012, 8:12 AM

Post #129 of 138 (1812 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV playback frustration [In reply to]

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 8:00 AM, Joseph Fry <joe [at] thefrys> wrote:
> On 08/27/2012 02:50 AM, mikkel wrote:
>>
>> I find (using .24+fixes) that LiveTV works ok. It is only a matter of bugs
>> and users being frustrated because they cannot change channel do to an
>> ongoing recording. And this frustration is basically due to the lack of
>> information. I believe the above would help a lot.
>>
>> But in 0.25+, it will actually allow users to change channel even if the
>> physical tuner is locked on a mux or if the requested channel is on
>> another video source.en holding off on an upgrade. I have install scripts
>> and disks ready, but I guess I will have to wait undetil .26 rolls out.
>>
>> But would it be an idea to gather information like I suggest to support
>> the dev's? I will gladly help if the work will be used
>>
>>
> Don't hesitate to upgrade to 0.25 based on our discussion... LiveTV works
> well as it was designed, but we were discussion how to improve the design...
> really just throwing ideas out there. My only real complaint is that it is
> commflagging live tv still, it was fixed in 0.26, but not backported yet
> (that I'm aware of).
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

Someone wanted a flowchart? How about this? It would minimize
questions to the user, at the cost of reserving a tuner per Live TV
session. I'm probably forgetting something here, but it's what I could
come up with in 10 minutes.

http://static.inky.ws/image/2674/image.jpg

Thanks,

Thomas Mashos
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joe at thefrys

Aug 27, 2012, 8:44 AM

Post #130 of 138 (1802 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV playback frustration [In reply to]

>> I find (using .24+fixes) that LiveTV works ok. It is only a matter of
bugs

> >> and users being frustrated because they cannot change channel do to an
> >> ongoing recording. And this frustration is basically due to the lack of
> >> information. I believe the above would help a lot.
> >>
> >> But in 0.25+, it will actually allow users to change channel even if the
> >> physical tuner is locked on a mux or if the requested channel is on
> >> another video source.en holding off on an upgrade. I have install
> scripts
> >> and disks ready, but I guess I will have to wait undetil .26 rolls out.
> >>
> >> But would it be an idea to gather information like I suggest to support
> >> the dev's? I will gladly help if the work will be used
> >>
> >>
> > Don't hesitate to upgrade to 0.25 based on our discussion... LiveTV works
> > well as it was designed, but we were discussion how to improve the
> design...
> > really just throwing ideas out there. My only real complaint is that it
> is
> > commflagging live tv still, it was fixed in 0.26, but not backported yet
> > (that I'm aware of).
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mythtv-users mailing list
> > mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> > http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> >
>
> Someone wanted a flowchart? How about this? It would minimize
> questions to the user, at the cost of reserving a tuner per Live TV
> session. I'm probably forgetting something here, but it's what I could
> come up with in 10 minutes.
>
> http://static.inky.ws/image/2674/image.jpg
>
>
Keep in mind that the ^^^ is not the way that live tv currently works.


lists at glidos

Aug 27, 2012, 9:53 AM

Post #131 of 138 (1806 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV playback frustration [In reply to]

On 27/08/2012 16:12, Thomas Mashos wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 8:00 AM, Joseph Fry <joe [at] thefrys> wrote:
>> On 08/27/2012 02:50 AM, mikkel wrote:
>>>
>>> I find (using .24+fixes) that LiveTV works ok. It is only a matter
of bugs
>>> and users being frustrated because they cannot change channel do to an
>>> ongoing recording. And this frustration is basically due to the lack of
>>> information. I believe the above would help a lot.
>>>
>>> But in 0.25+, it will actually allow users to change channel even
if the
>>> physical tuner is locked on a mux or if the requested channel is on
>>> another video source.en holding off on an upgrade. I have install
scripts
>>> and disks ready, but I guess I will have to wait undetil .26 rolls out.
>>>
>>> But would it be an idea to gather information like I suggest to support
>>> the dev's? I will gladly help if the work will be used
>>>
>>>
>> Don't hesitate to upgrade to 0.25 based on our discussion... LiveTV
works
>> well as it was designed, but we were discussion how to improve the
design...
>> really just throwing ideas out there. My only real complaint is that
it is
>> commflagging live tv still, it was fixed in 0.26, but not backported yet
>> (that I'm aware of).
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mythtv-users mailing list
>> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
>> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>>
>
> Someone wanted a flowchart? How about this? It would minimize
> questions to the user, at the cost of reserving a tuner per Live TV
> session. I'm probably forgetting something here, but it's what I could
> come up with in 10 minutes.
>
> http://static.inky.ws/image/2674/image.jpg

Nice.

Is it right that the only way into "record the next show" is from
a scheduled recording having finished? Do you not need that also
if what is being watched live isn't a scheduled recording? Or are
you thinking that when watching a recording that was set up only
for live TV, there is no need to stop and start between shows?

Also I haven't yet understood how reserving a tuner minimizes
questions to the user.

Cheers,
Paul.
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


thomas at mashos

Aug 27, 2012, 10:09 AM

Post #132 of 138 (1799 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV playback frustration [In reply to]

On Aug 27, 2012 9:53 AM, "Paul Gardiner" <lists [at] glidos> wrote:
>
> On 27/08/2012 16:12, Thomas Mashos wrote:
> > On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 8:00 AM, Joseph Fry <joe [at] thefrys> wrote:
> >> On 08/27/2012 02:50 AM, mikkel wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I find (using .24+fixes) that LiveTV works ok. It is only a matter of
bugs
> >>> and users being frustrated because they cannot change channel do to an
> >>> ongoing recording. And this frustration is basically due to the lack
of
> >>> information. I believe the above would help a lot.
> >>>
> >>> But in 0.25+, it will actually allow users to change channel even if
the
> >>> physical tuner is locked on a mux or if the requested channel is on
> >>> another video source.en holding off on an upgrade. I have install
scripts
> >>> and disks ready, but I guess I will have to wait undetil .26 rolls
out.
> >>>
> >>> But would it be an idea to gather information like I suggest to
support
> >>> the dev's? I will gladly help if the work will be used
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Don't hesitate to upgrade to 0.25 based on our discussion... LiveTV
works
> >> well as it was designed, but we were discussion how to improve the
design...
> >> really just throwing ideas out there. My only real complaint is that
it is
> >> commflagging live tv still, it was fixed in 0.26, but not backported
yet
> >> (that I'm aware of).
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> mythtv-users mailing list
> >> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> >> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> >>
> >
> > Someone wanted a flowchart? How about this? It would minimize
> > questions to the user, at the cost of reserving a tuner per Live TV
> > session. I'm probably forgetting something here, but it's what I could
> > come up with in 10 minutes.
> >
> > http://static.inky.ws/image/2674/image.jpg
>
> Nice.
>
> Is it right that the only way into "record the next show" is from
> a scheduled recording having finished? Do you not need that also
> if what is being watched live isn't a scheduled recording? Or are
> you thinking that when watching a recording that was set up only
> for live TV, there is no need to stop and start between shows?
>

I don't think there is a need to start/stop between shows when there isn't
a scheduled recording. Might have to add some logic for what happens if a
user presses record during live tv though.

> Also I haven't yet understood how reserving a tuner minimizes
> questions to the user.
>

The user isn't prompted if they want to release the tuner. This also makes
the logic easier as you don't need to account for no tuners being available
after you finish watching the recording.

> Cheers,
> Paul.
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


lists at glidos

Aug 28, 2012, 1:28 AM

Post #133 of 138 (1786 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV playback frustration [In reply to]

On 27/08/2012 18:09, Thomas Mashos wrote:
>
> On Aug 27, 2012 9:53 AM, "Paul Gardiner" <lists [at] glidos
> <mailto:lists [at] glidos>> wrote:
> >
> > On 27/08/2012 16:12, Thomas Mashos wrote:
> > > On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 8:00 AM, Joseph Fry <joe [at] thefrys
> <mailto:joe [at] thefrys>> wrote:
> > >> On 08/27/2012 02:50 AM, mikkel wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> I find (using .24+fixes) that LiveTV works ok. It is only a
> matter of bugs
> > >>> and users being frustrated because they cannot change channel do
> to an
> > >>> ongoing recording. And this frustration is basically due to the
> lack of
> > >>> information. I believe the above would help a lot.
> > >>>
> > >>> But in 0.25+, it will actually allow users to change channel even
> if the
> > >>> physical tuner is locked on a mux or if the requested channel is on
> > >>> another video source.en holding off on an upgrade. I have install
> scripts
> > >>> and disks ready, but I guess I will have to wait undetil .26
> rolls out.
> > >>>
> > >>> But would it be an idea to gather information like I suggest to
> support
> > >>> the dev's? I will gladly help if the work will be used
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >> Don't hesitate to upgrade to 0.25 based on our discussion...
> LiveTV works
> > >> well as it was designed, but we were discussion how to improve the
> design...
> > >> really just throwing ideas out there. My only real complaint is
> that it is
> > >> commflagging live tv still, it was fixed in 0.26, but not
> backported yet
> > >> (that I'm aware of).
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> mythtv-users mailing list
> > >> mythtv-users [at] mythtv <mailto:mythtv-users [at] mythtv>
> > >> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> > >>
> > >
> > > Someone wanted a flowchart? How about this? It would minimize
> > > questions to the user, at the cost of reserving a tuner per Live TV
> > > session. I'm probably forgetting something here, but it's what I could
> > > come up with in 10 minutes.
> > >
> > > http://static.inky.ws/image/2674/image.jpg
> >
> > Nice.
> >
> > Is it right that the only way into "record the next show" is from
> > a scheduled recording having finished? Do you not need that also
> > if what is being watched live isn't a scheduled recording? Or are
> > you thinking that when watching a recording that was set up only
> > for live TV, there is no need to stop and start between shows?
> >
>
> I don't think there is a need to start/stop between shows when there
> isn't a scheduled recording. Might have to add some logic for what
> happens if a user presses record during live tv though.

Yes, isn't completely obvious what to do in that case. Also if you
are watching live through a transition between programs, of which
the first is not also a scheduled recording and the second is.
Maybe that's a special case: at least if you don't handle it in
a special way, you end up with two simultaneous recordings of the
same channel, which otherwise doesn't occur.

> > Also I haven't yet understood how reserving a tuner minimizes
> > questions to the user.
> >
>
> The user isn't prompted if they want to release the tuner. This also
> makes the logic easier as you don't need to account for no tuners being
> available after you finish watching the recording.

I was thinking always drop the tuner if possible. That way you are not
holding a tuner unnecessarily while someone on another frontend is
being refused use. I realise that the downside of that is possibly
being refused a channel change and being restricted to only what
is already currently recording, but we already have the possibility
of being restricted to only certain multiplexes. Not sure really -
seems like swings and roundabouts.

Cheers,
Paul.
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mythtv-users mailing list
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mikep at randomtraveller

Aug 28, 2012, 3:01 AM

Post #134 of 138 (1782 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV playback frustration [In reply to]

On 28/08/12 09:28, Paul Gardiner wrote:
> On 27/08/2012 18:09, Thomas Mashos wrote:
>>
>> The user isn't prompted if they want to release the tuner. This also
>> makes the logic easier as you don't need to account for no tuners being
>> available after you finish watching the recording.
>
> I was thinking always drop the tuner if possible. That way you are not
> holding a tuner unnecessarily while someone on another frontend is
> being refused use. I realise that the downside of that is possibly
> being refused a channel change and being restricted to only what
> is already currently recording, but we already have the possibility
> of being restricted to only certain multiplexes. Not sure really -
> seems like swings and roundabouts.
>
One way to solve this particular problem is just to buy more tuners. Perhaps the
best plan would be to have two tuner pools, one which is only ever used for
scheduled recordings and the other which is only ever used for live tv.

Doing that would resolve most of the conflicts present in this thread, apart
from the problem of potentially making multiple recordings (one scheduled, one
or more live) of the same channel.

--

Mike Perkins

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lists at glidos

Aug 28, 2012, 3:40 AM

Post #135 of 138 (1784 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV playback frustration [In reply to]

On 28/08/2012 11:01, Mike Perkins wrote:
> On 28/08/12 09:28, Paul Gardiner wrote:
>> On 27/08/2012 18:09, Thomas Mashos wrote:
>>>
>>> The user isn't prompted if they want to release the tuner. This also
>>> makes the logic easier as you don't need to account for no tuners being
>>> available after you finish watching the recording.
>>
>> I was thinking always drop the tuner if possible. That way you are not
>> holding a tuner unnecessarily while someone on another frontend is
>> being refused use. I realise that the downside of that is possibly
>> being refused a channel change and being restricted to only what
>> is already currently recording, but we already have the possibility
>> of being restricted to only certain multiplexes. Not sure really -
>> seems like swings and roundabouts.
>>
> One way to solve this particular problem is just to buy more tuners.
> Perhaps the best plan would be to have two tuner pools, one which is
> only ever used for scheduled recordings and the other which is only ever
> used for live tv.

Certainly buying more tuners is the way to solve the conflicts. Not sure
about pools: although I like having the Live TV features, I still think
it's one of the least important things MythTV does, so I don't like
the idea of having tuners that I cannot use for scheduled recordings.

> Doing that would resolve most of the conflicts present in this thread,
> apart from the problem of potentially making multiple recordings (one
> scheduled, one or more live) of the same channel.

Actually I should remind myself, I got into this thread only to attempt
to argue against those that claim people shouldn't use Live TV. I'm
pretty content with its current implementation. The only really annoying
problem that I see is glitches while crossing program boundaries. I'm
sure the first version I used (0.22 or 0.23) didn't do that!

Cheers,
Paul.
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pat at flying-gecko

Sep 2, 2012, 7:31 PM

Post #136 of 138 (1709 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV playback frustration [In reply to]

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 08:26:38PM -0400, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>
> For breaking news/weather alerts, I'll actually schedule recordings
> on a bunch of channels, then start watching one and if they're not
> talking about the thing I'm interesting in hearing about, I'll use
> MENU to go to Jump to Program and switch to one of the other
> programs. I'll do this for each of the recordings I started, then
> use JUMPPREV (no default binding) or PREVCHAN (H) to flip through
> all of them--and I can jump backwards or forwards in them to find
> the spots where they /do/ talk about the important stuff... It's
> basically channel surfing evolved--channel surfing but with the
> benefit that MythTV keeps recording the shows when I'm "surfed away"
> so I don't have to worry about missing the important stuff because
> I'm on some other channel when they talk about it...
>

Just curious, on a breaking news event or severe weather heading your way
(e.g. tornado) if you don't have live TV on how do you know when to record
those "bunch of channels?"

Pat
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jeremy.dwain.jones at gmail

Sep 3, 2012, 9:27 AM

Post #137 of 138 (1690 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV playback frustration [In reply to]

On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 9:31 PM, Patrick Ouellette <pat [at] flying-gecko>wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 08:26:38PM -0400, Michael T. Dean wrote:
> >
> > For breaking news/weather alerts, I'll actually schedule recordings
> > on a bunch of channels, then start watching one and if they're not
> > talking about the thing I'm interesting in hearing about, I'll use
> > MENU to go to Jump to Program and switch to one of the other
> > programs. I'll do this for each of the recordings I started, then
> > use JUMPPREV (no default binding) or PREVCHAN (H) to flip through
> > all of them--and I can jump backwards or forwards in them to find
> > the spots where they /do/ talk about the important stuff... It's
> > basically channel surfing evolved--channel surfing but with the
> > benefit that MythTV keeps recording the shows when I'm "surfed away"
> > so I don't have to worry about missing the important stuff because
> > I'm on some other channel when they talk about it...
> >
>
> Just curious, on a breaking news event or severe weather heading your way
> (e.g. tornado) if you don't have live TV on how do you know when to record
> those "bunch of channels?"
>
>
> How do you know to Turn on the TV?


lists at glidos

Sep 3, 2012, 11:57 AM

Post #138 of 138 (1689 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV playback frustration [In reply to]

On 03/09/2012 17:27, Jeremy Jones wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 9:31 PM, Patrick Ouellette <pat [at] flying-gecko
> <mailto:pat [at] flying-gecko>> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 08:26:38PM -0400, Michael T. Dean wrote:
> >
> > For breaking news/weather alerts, I'll actually schedule recordings
> > on a bunch of channels, then start watching one and if they're not
> > talking about the thing I'm interesting in hearing about, I'll use
> > MENU to go to Jump to Program and switch to one of the other
> > programs. I'll do this for each of the recordings I started, then
> > use JUMPPREV (no default binding) or PREVCHAN (H) to flip through
> > all of them--and I can jump backwards or forwards in them to find
> > the spots where they /do/ talk about the important stuff... It's
> > basically channel surfing evolved--channel surfing but with the
> > benefit that MythTV keeps recording the shows when I'm "surfed away"
> > so I don't have to worry about missing the important stuff because
> > I'm on some other channel when they talk about it...
> >
>
> Just curious, on a breaking news event or severe weather heading
> your way
> (e.g. tornado) if you don't have live TV on how do you know when to
> record
> those "bunch of channels?"
>
>
> How do you know to Turn on the TV?

Oh that's an easy one I can answer: "the screen is black and the
speakers are silent".

P.
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