Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Users

Any problem with main frontend also being household network server?

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myth at surr

Aug 8, 2012, 1:49 AM

Post #1 of 9 (455 views)
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Any problem with main frontend also being household network server?

Hi all,

In the past I have had a loud old machine in the garrage that acted as
the 'always on' network server for the house, and was also attached to
the projector in the front room, so this machine was also the main frontend.

The old machine died, and we are also having a garage conversion done
and re-jigging rooms.

My intention has been to buy another 'always on network server' machine,
but in an attractive quiet case that can sit on the book case next to
the projector (same room). This again would act as the LAN server, Myth
Backend, and main Myth Frontend.

When I read online, I get the impression that most people would
recommend a separate 'always on' machine for the network server.

The only positive I can see to this is you could then have a 'lighter'
frontend.

The negatives, to me, seem to be that I'd be replacing 1 box with 2
boxes. One frontend machine and one network server (which I assume would
also be the myth backend .. otherwise it would be 2 'always on'
machines, which just seems nuts). 2 machines rather than one means both
more expense and more space needed (when we are already losing space due
to the garage conversion.

Am I missing something? Is there anything wrong with my 1 box setup,
replacing what I have had with the same functionality, but in a quiet
attractive case (if I can find one .. preferable pre-built as my
'tinkering' time seems to have evaporated these days). Or is there a
reason why I really should try to find the space and money for 2 quiet
boxes?

Thanks
Damian
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mikep at randomtraveller

Aug 8, 2012, 2:08 AM

Post #2 of 9 (456 views)
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Re: Any problem with main frontend also being household network server? [In reply to]

On 08/08/12 09:49, Damian wrote:
>
> The negatives, to me, seem to be that I'd be replacing 1 box with 2 boxes. One
> frontend machine and one network server (which I assume would also be the myth
> backend .. otherwise it would be 2 'always on' machines, which just seems nuts).
> 2 machines rather than one means both more expense and more space needed (when
> we are already losing space due to the garage conversion.
>
Huh? The mythtv backend is just a process running on your server. No need to
invent another box. If it's on 24x7 and it holds the storage (plus mysql, of
course) then that's the place to put your backend.

--

Mike Perkins

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myth at surr

Aug 8, 2012, 2:28 AM

Post #3 of 9 (448 views)
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Re: Any problem with main frontend also being household network server? [In reply to]

On 08/08/2012 10:08, Mike Perkins wrote:
> On 08/08/12 09:49, Damian wrote:
>>
>> The negatives, to me, seem to be that I'd be replacing 1 box with 2
>> boxes. One
>> frontend machine and one network server (which I assume would also be
>> the myth
>> backend .. otherwise it would be 2 'always on' machines, which just
>> seems nuts).
>> 2 machines rather than one means both more expense and more space
>> needed (when
>> we are already losing space due to the garage conversion.
>>
> Huh? The mythtv backend is just a process running on your server. No
> need to invent another box. If it's on 24x7 and it holds the storage
> (plus mysql, of course) then that's the place to put your backend.
>

Hi Mike,

Yes, I assumed the server and the backend would be on the same machine.
I must have been unclear in my email. My question is, Is there any good
reason why the main frontend should be a different machine (to the
backend and network server) or can I have them all in one quiet
attractive box that lives on the book case?

Damian
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richard.e.morton at gmail

Aug 8, 2012, 2:37 AM

Post #4 of 9 (447 views)
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Re: Any problem with main frontend also being household network server? [In reply to]

Look into the cost of quirt front ends. Even hard disc spin and quiet fans
annoy me when reading... I would recommend putting a back end in a separate
room, garage or cupboard. I have run long HDMI cables, USB and speaker
cables from that cupboard to enable a combined fe/be.

R

Please excuse brevity and pistakes as this email was composed on a mobile
phone.
Best regards,
Richard

raymond at wagnerrp

Aug 8, 2012, 8:35 AM

Post #5 of 9 (436 views)
Permalink

Re: Any problem with main frontend also being household network server? [In reply to]

On 8/8/2012 05:28, Damian wrote:
> My question is, Is there any good reason why the main frontend should be
> a different machine (to the backend and network server) or can I have
> them all in one quiet attractive box that lives on the book case?

Well that's the real question. Can you fit everything in one quiet
attractive box that lives on the book case? There's always going to be
tradeoffs. Small and quiet means poor cooling, which means you need much
more expansive laptop-grade hardware to get the same performance and
storage. Quiet and inexpensive means you're going to have to go big, to
have large heatsinks and large, slow fans, which are going to make
"attractive" difficult. Small and attractive is easy, but then you end
up with a vacuum cleaner in the corner of your room.

You can do it, sure. However, many users find it is cheaper and quicker
to split the two (or more) boxes. It's significantly easier to make a
computer silent against the background of a TV, and turn it off when not
in use, than it is to make it silent against a quiet room. There is
always the third option of using a loud old machine in your garage, or
other convenient room, and running audio/video/ir to your television
remotely.
_______________________________________________
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mythtv-users [at] mythtv
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joe at thefrys

Aug 8, 2012, 9:54 AM

Post #6 of 9 (436 views)
Permalink

Re: Any problem with main frontend also being household network server? [In reply to]

>
>
> My question is, Is there any good reason why the main frontend should be
>> a different machine (to the backend and network server) or can I have
>> them all in one quiet attractive box that lives on the book case?
>>
>
> Well that's the real question. Can you fit everything in one quiet
> attractive box that lives on the book case? There's always going to be
> tradeoffs. Small and quiet means poor cooling, which means you need much
> more expansive laptop-grade hardware to get the same performance and
> storage. Quiet and inexpensive means you're going to have to go big, to
> have large heatsinks and large, slow fans, which are going to make
> "attractive" difficult. Small and attractive is easy, but then you end up
> with a vacuum cleaner in the corner of your room.
>
> You can do it, sure. However, many users find it is cheaper and quicker to
> split the two (or more) boxes. It's significantly easier to make a computer
> silent against the background of a TV, and turn it off when not in use,
> than it is to make it silent against a quiet room. There is always the
> third option of using a loud old machine in your garage, or other
> convenient room, and running audio/video/ir to your television remotely.

There is no reason not to combine the two, just be careful with your
component selection.

A good case with great thought to airflow is key... I like the Silverstone
GD04/05 if you want something that is shallow enough to sit with the rest
of your equipment. These cases use 3 large 120mm+ fans blowing cool
turbulent air into the case for great cooling. The fans don't need to spin
fast to cool well, so get a fan controller or wire them to run on 5V to
keep them quiet. Coupled with a low thermal load CPU (<= 65watts) and the
Silverstone fanless heatsink (remove the shroud) recommended for that case,
and you can have a very quiet system. Use an SSD for your system
drive/database so that your media drives can spin down when not in use; and
buy quiet 5400RPM drives for your media. A bit of sound deadening pad on
the panels of the case to help kill any vibration can't hurt either.

Odds are, the fan on your projector will be louder than your system if you
plan it properly.

A visit to SPCR (http://www.silentpcreview.com/) is recommended... the
folks there are all about keeping computers quiet.

krt at krt

Aug 8, 2012, 4:35 PM

Post #7 of 9 (428 views)
Permalink

Re: Any problem with main frontend also being household network server? [In reply to]

On 08/08/12 18:49, Damian wrote:
> My intention has been to buy another 'always on network server' machine,
> but in an attractive quiet case that can sit on the book case next to the
> projector (same room). This again would act as the LAN server, Myth
> Backend, and main Myth Frontend.

Hi All,

I have a Antec Fusion HTPC box that sits under my TV, it looks and acts like
any other piece of HiFi equipment.

I use it as a back-end, front-end & file server (but only for media files -
like it matters), and 2x minecraft servers.
(it's frustrating that Minecraft servers use a fair bit of CPU even when
no-one is connected - Grrr!)

I would absolutely go this way again. I only need one machine on 24x7, and
with a box especially created to be quiet. Although you can hear it humming
in the absolute middle of the night - iff you're standing next to it.

However with only an nVidia (onboard) 9400 GPU, I very very occasionally
drop a frame on high load watching full-def blue ray.

I hope this information is useful to you.

cheers,
-Kingsley

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
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adeffs.mythtv at gmail

Aug 9, 2012, 8:58 AM

Post #8 of 9 (410 views)
Permalink

Re: Any problem with main frontend also being household network server? [In reply to]

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 7:35 PM, Kingsley Turner <krt [at] krt> wrote:
> On 08/08/12 18:49, Damian wrote:
>>
>> My intention has been to buy another 'always on network server' machine,
>> but in an attractive quiet case that can sit on the book case next to the
>> projector (same room). This again would act as the LAN server, Myth Backend,
>> and main Myth Frontend.
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have a Antec Fusion HTPC box that sits under my TV, it looks and acts like
> any other piece of HiFi equipment.
>
> I use it as a back-end, front-end & file server (but only for media files -
> like it matters), and 2x minecraft servers.
> (it's frustrating that Minecraft servers use a fair bit of CPU even when
> no-one is connected - Grrr!)
>
> I would absolutely go this way again. I only need one machine on 24x7, and
> with a box especially created to be quiet. Although you can hear it humming
> in the absolute middle of the night - iff you're standing next to it.
>
> However with only an nVidia (onboard) 9400 GPU, I very very occasionally
> drop a frame on high load watching full-def blue ray.
>
>
> I hope this information is useful to you.
>
>
> cheers,
> -Kingsley

I run a standalone backend and all the frontends are independent. I
like this because if a frontend has a random problem I can reboot
it/take it down without having to worry about the backend. When they
are combined this is not possible.
I also like being able to keep that backend in the basement were it
can take up all the room it needs, make all the noise it wants, and I
bought a cheap NORCO server case instead of an expensive large HTPC
looking case.

--
Steve
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User:Steveadeff
Before you ask, read the FAQ!
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Questions
then search the Wiki, and this list,
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/
Mailinglist etiquette - http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mailing_List_etiquette
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mythtv-users mailing list
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myth at surr

Aug 10, 2012, 1:31 AM

Post #9 of 9 (400 views)
Permalink

Re: Any problem with main frontend also being household network server? [In reply to]

On 08/08/2012 17:54, Joseph Fry wrote:
>
> My question is, Is there any good reason why the main frontend
> should be
> a different machine (to the backend and network server) or can
> I have
> them all in one quiet attractive box that lives on the book case?
>
>
> Well that's the real question. Can you fit everything in one quiet
> attractive box that lives on the book case? There's always going
> to be tradeoffs. Small and quiet means poor cooling, which means
> you need much more expansive laptop-grade hardware to get the same
> performance and storage. Quiet and inexpensive means you're going
> to have to go big, to have large heatsinks and large, slow fans,
> which are going to make "attractive" difficult. Small and
> attractive is easy, but then you end up with a vacuum cleaner in
> the corner of your room.
>
> You can do it, sure. However, many users find it is cheaper and
> quicker to split the two (or more) boxes. It's significantly
> easier to make a computer silent against the background of a TV,
> and turn it off when not in use, than it is to make it silent
> against a quiet room. There is always the third option of using a
> loud old machine in your garage, or other convenient room, and
> running audio/video/ir to your television remotely.
>
>
> There is no reason not to combine the two, just be careful with your
> component selection.
>
> A good case with great thought to airflow is key... I like the
> Silverstone GD04/05 if you want something that is shallow enough to
> sit with the rest of your equipment. These cases use 3 large 120mm+
> fans blowing cool turbulent air into the case for great cooling. The
> fans don't need to spin fast to cool well, so get a fan controller or
> wire them to run on 5V to keep them quiet. Coupled with a low thermal
> load CPU (<= 65watts) and the Silverstone fanless heatsink (remove the
> shroud) recommended for that case, and you can have a very quiet
> system. Use an SSD for your system drive/database so that your media
> drives can spin down when not in use; and buy quiet 5400RPM drives for
> your media. A bit of sound deadening pad on the panels of the case to
> help kill any vibration can't hurt either.
>
> Odds are, the fan on your projector will be louder than your system if
> you plan it properly.
>
> A visit to SPCR (http://www.silentpcreview.com/) is recommended... the
> folks there are all about keeping computers quiet.

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

Food for thought while I'm on holiday. I'll get out the credit card when
I'm back.

Damian

*Damian Surr* /Magician/

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<http://www.christmaspartymagician.co.uk> |Tel: 07712 575701

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