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'End late' ignored when recording LiveTV

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peper03 at yahoo

Jul 27, 2012, 12:19 PM

Post #1 of 7 (356 views)
Permalink

'End late' ignored when recording LiveTV

Hi,

I noticed recently that if I toggle the recording status on a programme
I'm watching via LiveTV, the recording often stops before the programme
does because the 'End late' value was not applied.

I did a bit of digging in the code and found this is done intentionally:

void TVRec::NotifySchedulerOfRecording(RecordingInfo *rec)
{
...
// + remove DefaultEndOffset which would mismatch the live session
rec->GetRecordingRule()->m_endOffset = 0;
...
}

The comment for NotifySchedulerOfRecording seems to indicate that this
goes against the purpose of this method:

"In this case the scheduler needs to know about the recording so it
can properly take overrecord into account, and to properly
reschedule other recordings around to avoid this recording."

Normally I'd open a ticket but since it's been done intentionally I
thought I'd check here to see if anyone can explain why.

I don't need this feature very often but there's not much point using it
at all if there's a good chance it's going to cause me to miss the end
of the programme.

Richard.
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mtdean at thirdcontact

Jul 30, 2012, 8:29 AM

Post #2 of 7 (326 views)
Permalink

Re: 'End late' ignored when recording LiveTV [In reply to]

On 07/27/2012 03:19 PM, Richard wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I noticed recently that if I toggle the recording status on a
> programme I'm watching via LiveTV, the recording often stops before
> the programme does because the 'End late' value was not applied.
>
> I did a bit of digging in the code and found this is done intentionally:
>
> void TVRec::NotifySchedulerOfRecording(RecordingInfo *rec)
> {
> ...
> // + remove DefaultEndOffset which would mismatch the live session
> rec->GetRecordingRule()->m_endOffset = 0;
> ...
> }
>
> The comment for NotifySchedulerOfRecording seems to indicate that this
> goes against the purpose of this method:
>
> "In this case the scheduler needs to know about the recording so it
> can properly take overrecord into account, and to properly
> reschedule other recordings around to avoid this recording."
>
> Normally I'd open a ticket but since it's been done intentionally I
> thought I'd check here to see if anyone can explain why.
>
> I don't need this feature very often but there's not much point using
> it at all if there's a good chance it's going to cause me to miss the
> end of the programme.

So, what you're saying is, "the setting which specifies a default value
for the end late when creating a new recording rule isn't applied when
I'm watching Live TV and I hit R to record the rest of the show"?

Default 'End Late' minutes for new recording rules
Set this to '0' unless you expect that the majority of your show times
will not match your TV listings. This sets the initial end late or end
early time when rules are created. These can then be adjusted per
recording rule.

The setting is meant to pre-populate the value in the recording rule
editor and nothing more. If you want to use that value, create
recording rules. IMHO, the benefit to be gained from adding code to
send a recording rule update after converting a Live TV recording to a
"normal" recording by hitting R when watching Live TV to retro-actively
apply an end late isn't worth the benefit. Not to mention the fact that
hitting R during Live TV doesn't even work properly, right now--meaning
any time spent on that code would be better spent fixing the brokenness.

Now it is possible--and not too difficult--for you to manually extend
the recording-in-progress that was created when you hit R (the same way
you do when you extend any other already-in-progress recording--left as
an exercise for the reader since explaining all the various approaches
would be way more typing than I care to do). And, since you won't be
creating a lot of recording rules this way (after all, the fact that
you're starting the recording from Live TV means that you likely missed
some portion of the beginning of the show before you stumbled upon an
interesting show), doing so shouldn't be too much work. (In other
words, the point of a DVR is to set it to record anything and everything
you might possibly want to watch so that you always have something more
interesting to watch than whatever is currently airing--along with its
commercials and such--and you can then delete (or let it expire) the
cruft as you get more and more recordings of better shows to watch.
And, BTW, I mean /anything/ and /everything/--including news and sports
and ... http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/387302#387302 )

Mike
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peper03 at yahoo

Jul 30, 2012, 2:22 PM

Post #3 of 7 (319 views)
Permalink

Re: 'End late' ignored when recording LiveTV [In reply to]

On 30/07/12 17:29, Michael T. Dean wrote:
> On 07/27/2012 03:19 PM, Richard wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I noticed recently that if I toggle the recording status on a
>> programme I'm watching via LiveTV, the recording often stops before
>> the programme does because the 'End late' value was not applied.
>>
>> I did a bit of digging in the code and found this is done intentionally:
>>
>> void TVRec::NotifySchedulerOfRecording(RecordingInfo *rec)
>> {
>> ...
>> // + remove DefaultEndOffset which would mismatch the live session
>> rec->GetRecordingRule()->m_endOffset = 0;
>> ...
>> }
>>
>> The comment for NotifySchedulerOfRecording seems to indicate that this
>> goes against the purpose of this method:
>>
>> "In this case the scheduler needs to know about the recording so it
>> can properly take overrecord into account, and to properly
>> reschedule other recordings around to avoid this recording."
>>
>> Normally I'd open a ticket but since it's been done intentionally I
>> thought I'd check here to see if anyone can explain why.
>>
>> I don't need this feature very often but there's not much point using
>> it at all if there's a good chance it's going to cause me to miss the
>> end of the programme.
>
> So, what you're saying is, "the setting which specifies a default value
> for the end late when creating a new recording rule isn't applied when
> I'm watching Live TV and I hit R to record the rest of the show"?

Hi Mike,

No, what I'm saying is that the setting *is* being applied but then it
is being *explicitly* deactivated in this case, and I don't understand
the reasoning.

The RecordingRule class automatically sets the end offset member in its
constructor. The method I mentioned in the TVRec class then explicitly
sets it to zero.

> The setting is meant to pre-populate the value in the recording rule
> editor and nothing more. If you want to use that value, create
> recording rules. IMHO, the benefit to be gained from adding code to
> send a recording rule update after converting a Live TV recording to a
> "normal" recording by hitting R when watching Live TV to retro-actively
> apply an end late isn't worth the benefit. Not to mention the fact that
> hitting R during Live TV doesn't even work properly, right now--meaning
> any time spent on that code would be better spent fixing the brokenness.

What else is broken? Apart from the issue I mentioned, I've not noticed
any other issues but it would be nice to know before they bite me (or
worse, the wife :) )

The time required to "fix" it (assuming it's broken, which is why I was
asking the in first place) should be less than a minute (basically the
time it takes to open tv_rec.cpp, search for the line above and delete it).

> Now it is possible--and not too difficult--for you to manually extend
> the recording-in-progress that was created when you hit R (the same way
> you do when you extend any other already-in-progress recording--left as

As a work-around, yes, you can. But that's a lot of keypresses (come
out of LiveTV, down to 'Schedule Recordings', OK, down to 'Recording
rules', OK, scroll, scroll, scroll until you find the new rule, OK, down
to 'Scheduling Options', OK, down to 'End offset', right a couple of
times, down to 'Done', OK, down to 'Save', OK...

Interestingly the 'Start early' setting is correctly set (because
RecordingRule automatically set it in its constructor).

> would be way more typing than I care to do). And, since you won't be
> creating a lot of recording rules this way (after all, the fact that
> you're starting the recording from Live TV means that you likely missed
> some portion of the beginning of the show before you stumbled upon an
> interesting show), doing so shouldn't be too much work. (In other
> words, the point of a DVR is to set it to record anything and everything
> you might possibly want to watch so that you always have something more
> interesting to watch than whatever is currently airing--along with its
> commercials and such--and you can then delete (or let it expire) the
> cruft as you get more and more recordings of better shows to watch. And,

I understand the arguments made against LiveTV but I don't accept them
as always valid world-wide. I absolutely agree that watching programmes
stripped of adverts and the rest (or at least pre-recorded so that they
can be jumped over quickly) is much more pleasurable. I've wanted to
put my foot through the screen when I've been in the US and it felt like
the TV station couldn't show more than three or four scenes before they
had to go to yet another ad-break. Other countries have fewer ad-breaks
per hour but then collect them into such large chunks that they re-show
the last scene again after the break because the viewer will probably
have already forgotten was happening.

I've noticed myself how I automatically reach for the remote control to
skip stuff and then realise I can't because I'm watching live. It
doesn't happen too often because I usually watch stuff that's already
been recorded. However, there are times when I do want to watch live
TV, and not every TV station in the world has adverts.

If I happen to know/see that a programme is on now that I'd like to
watch, where's the problem?

The particular instance I had the other evening was that I'd been
watching a programme (without adverts!) and the following programme
sounded interesting so I started watching it too. It was starting to
get late and I needed to go to bed so I just pressed 'R' to record the
rest of it but then found the end was missing when I came to watch it.
The schedules are generally fairly good but it's certainly possible that
there's maybe a minute or so of 'mismatch' from time to time (which is
presumably why the setting is there). I certainly wouldn't trust it
down to the second.

> BTW, I mean /anything/ and /everything/--including news and sports and
> ... http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/387302#387302 )

I get that too, but there are some programmes I just couldn't create a
rule for (e.g. one-offs starring no-one I've ever heard of) but I may
still be interested in. Maybe some sort of bayesian algorithm or the
like could be used but that sort of rule doesn't exist yet and would
also depend heavily on how much metadata is available.

In most cases you could probably argue that these programmes probably
aren't *that* important to me and you'd almost certainly be right but if
I've started watching something, I usually want to finish watching it too.

Richard.

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mtdean at thirdcontact

Jul 30, 2012, 3:43 PM

Post #4 of 7 (318 views)
Permalink

Re: 'End late' ignored when recording LiveTV [In reply to]

On 07/30/2012 05:22 PM, Richard wrote:
> On 30/07/12 17:29, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>> On 07/27/2012 03:19 PM, Richard wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I noticed recently that if I toggle the recording status on a
>>> programme I'm watching via LiveTV, the recording often stops before
>>> the programme does because the 'End late' value was not applied.
>>>
>>> I did a bit of digging in the code and found this is done
>>> intentionally:
>>>
>>> void TVRec::NotifySchedulerOfRecording(RecordingInfo *rec)
>>> {
>>> ...
>>> // + remove DefaultEndOffset which would mismatch the live session
>>> rec->GetRecordingRule()->m_endOffset = 0;
>>> ...
>>> }
>>>
>>> The comment for NotifySchedulerOfRecording seems to indicate that this
>>> goes against the purpose of this method:
>>>
>>> "In this case the scheduler needs to know about the recording so it
>>> can properly take overrecord into account, and to properly
>>> reschedule other recordings around to avoid this recording."
>>>
>>> Normally I'd open a ticket but since it's been done intentionally I
>>> thought I'd check here to see if anyone can explain why.
>>>
>>> I don't need this feature very often but there's not much point using
>>> it at all if there's a good chance it's going to cause me to miss the
>>> end of the programme.
>>
>> So, what you're saying is, "the setting which specifies a default value
>> for the end late when creating a new recording rule isn't applied when
>> I'm watching Live TV and I hit R to record the rest of the show"?
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> No, what I'm saying is that the setting *is* being applied but then it
> is being *explicitly* deactivated in this case, and I don't understand
> the reasoning.
>
> The RecordingRule class automatically sets the end offset member in
> its constructor. The method I mentioned in the TVRec class then
> explicitly sets it to zero.

AIUI, there are 2 "recordings" involved, here. When you're watching
Live TV, the recording /must/ ignore any end late--otherwise, it will
try to overrecord the show when it ends before switching to the new
show, which will completely break the Live TV chain (which requires
non-overlapping recordings). Therefore, default end late is removed for
Live TV. However, when you change that Live TV "virtual recording rule"
recording to a "normal" recording rule, we have to look up the recording
based on how it was created originally--as a
Live-TV-without-default-end-late rule--so we can change it to the proper
recording group.

>
>> The setting is meant to pre-populate the value in the recording rule
>> editor and nothing more. If you want to use that value, create
>> recording rules. IMHO, the benefit to be gained from adding code to
>> send a recording rule update after converting a Live TV recording to a
>> "normal" recording by hitting R when watching Live TV to retro-actively
>> apply an end late isn't worth the benefit. Not to mention the fact that
>> hitting R during Live TV doesn't even work properly, right now--meaning
>> any time spent on that code would be better spent fixing the brokenness.
>
> What else is broken?

There are tons of reports from users that shows aren't properly moved
from the Live TV recording group; or that the group is changed properly,
but as soon as they exit Live TV, the recording ends; or that changing
channel after hitting R ends or breaks or records the wrong show for the
recording or ...

Feel free to browse: http://code.mythtv.org/trac/report/1

(and if you can figure out any of them, and/or fix issues, and/or help
users figure out mistakes, we'd very much appreciate the help)

> Apart from the issue I mentioned, I've not noticed any other issues
> but it would be nice to know before they bite me (or worse, the wife :) )
>
> The time required to "fix" it (assuming it's broken, which is why I
> was asking the in first place) should be less than a minute (basically
> the time it takes to open tv_rec.cpp, search for the line above and
> delete it).

I think if you fix it that way, you'll break Live TV. TTBOMK, we'd need
to implement the change to the rule the same way we extend recordings in
progress. I may be wrong. Feel free to prove me wrong with a
working/well-tested patch. I'll admit that I haven't traced all the
code, so my understanding may be completely wrong. I'd assume if it
were as simple as "delete that line that was added explicitly," that
line would never have been added--because, just as you're saying, it
makes no sense to explicitly ignore a configured setting unless we have
to. (Now, there are many areas where we unintentionally ignore a
configured setting--mainly because there are so many settings that most
devs don't remember that something /is/ a setting--but in this case it's
a line added specifically to ignore that setting.)

>
>> Now it is possible--and not too difficult--for you to manually extend
>> the recording-in-progress that was created when you hit R (the same way
>> you do when you extend any other already-in-progress recording--left as
>
> As a work-around, yes, you can. But that's a lot of keypresses (come
> out of LiveTV, down to 'Schedule Recordings', OK, down to 'Recording
> rules', OK, scroll, scroll, scroll until you find the new rule, OK,
> down to 'Scheduling Options', OK, down to 'End offset', right a couple
> of times, down to 'Done', OK, down to 'Save', OK...
>
> Interestingly the 'Start early' setting is correctly set (because
> RecordingRule automatically set it in its constructor).

FWIW, you can do it in Watch Recordings with Schedule Options or in
MythWeb--both of which are much easier than using Manage
Recordings|Schedule Recordings|Recording Rules.

>
>> would be way more typing than I care to do). And, since you won't be
>> creating a lot of recording rules this way (after all, the fact that
>> you're starting the recording from Live TV means that you likely missed
>> some portion of the beginning of the show before you stumbled upon an
>> interesting show), doing so shouldn't be too much work. (In other
>> words, the point of a DVR is to set it to record anything and everything
>> you might possibly want to watch so that you always have something more
>> interesting to watch than whatever is currently airing--along with its
>> commercials and such--and you can then delete (or let it expire) the
>> cruft as you get more and more recordings of better shows to watch. And,
>
> I understand the arguments made against LiveTV but I don't accept them
> as always valid world-wide. I absolutely agree that watching
> programmes stripped of adverts and the rest (or at least pre-recorded
> so that they can be jumped over quickly) is much more pleasurable.
> I've wanted to put my foot through the screen when I've been in the US
> and it felt like the TV station couldn't show more than three or four
> scenes before they had to go to yet another ad-break. Other countries
> have fewer ad-breaks per hour but then collect them into such large
> chunks that they re-show the last scene again after the break because
> the viewer will probably have already forgotten was happening.
>
> I've noticed myself how I automatically reach for the remote control
> to skip stuff and then realise I can't because I'm watching live. It
> doesn't happen too often because I usually watch stuff that's already
> been recorded. However, there are times when I do want to watch live
> TV, and not every TV station in the world has adverts.
>
> If I happen to know/see that a programme is on now that I'd like to
> watch, where's the problem?
>
> The particular instance I had the other evening was that I'd been
> watching a programme (without adverts!) and the following programme
> sounded interesting so I started watching it too. It was starting to
> get late and I needed to go to bed so I just pressed 'R' to record the
> rest of it but then found the end was missing when I came to watch it.
> The schedules are generally fairly good but it's certainly possible
> that there's maybe a minute or so of 'mismatch' from time to time
> (which is presumably why the setting is there). I certainly wouldn't
> trust it down to the second.

I'm just saying it should be the exception, not the "rule", that you'll
create recording rules from Live TV, so going to Watch Recordings (which
I keep as a jump point on my remote), select the recording at top of the
list, MENU|Recording Options|Edit Recording Schedule to extend the
recording shouldn't be too much trouble.

>
>> BTW, I mean /anything/ and /everything/--including news and sports and
>> ... http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/387302#387302 )
>
> I get that too, but there are some programmes I just couldn't create a
> rule for (e.g. one-offs starring no-one I've ever heard of) but I may
> still be interested in. Maybe some sort of bayesian algorithm or the
> like could be used but that sort of rule doesn't exist yet and would
> also depend heavily on how much metadata is available.
>
> In most cases you could probably argue that these programmes probably
> aren't *that* important to me and you'd almost certainly be right but
> if I've started watching something, I usually want to finish watching
> it too.

And you think you're more likely to find these programs efficiently by
tuning in whatever is currently airing and channel surfing than by
looking at the guide and hitting R (one or more times to create the rule
type you want)?

Mike

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peper03 at yahoo

Jul 31, 2012, 8:01 AM

Post #5 of 7 (307 views)
Permalink

Re: 'End late' ignored when recording LiveTV [In reply to]

On 31/07/12 00:43, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>>> So, what you're saying is, "the setting which specifies a default value
>>> for the end late when creating a new recording rule isn't applied when
>>> I'm watching Live TV and I hit R to record the rest of the show"?
>>
>> Hi Mike,
>>
>> No, what I'm saying is that the setting *is* being applied but then it
>> is being *explicitly* deactivated in this case, and I don't understand
>> the reasoning.
>>
>> The RecordingRule class automatically sets the end offset member in
>> its constructor. The method I mentioned in the TVRec class then
>> explicitly sets it to zero.
>
> AIUI, there are 2 "recordings" involved, here. When you're watching
> Live TV, the recording /must/ ignore any end late--otherwise, it will
> try to overrecord the show when it ends before switching to the new
> show, which will completely break the Live TV chain (which requires
> non-overlapping recordings). Therefore, default end late is removed for
> Live TV. However, when you change that Live TV "virtual recording rule"
> recording to a "normal" recording rule, we have to look up the recording
> based on how it was created originally--as a
> Live-TV-without-default-end-late rule--so we can change it to the proper
> recording group.

Ok. That makes sense. If you press 'R' and then continue to watch
live, 'end late' is going to cause problems with the next programme (if
you were to press 'R' on *that* programme, you'd potentially be missing
the start because it was part of the previous file).

Looking at the 'NotifySchedulerOfRecording' method again (or more
accurately where it's called), it appears that it is only called when
the user *leaves* LiveTV. In that case, leaving the 'end late' setting
alone should work, shouldn't it? It's now become a proper recording and
entering LiveTV again should cause the same processing to be done as if
the recording had been set up as a normal rule in the first place (i.e.
this tuner is in use, is there another free tuner somewhere?).

I certainly understand that you can end up with several different
(similar) scenarios that have to be handled differently behind the
scenes but ideally have the same behaviour from the user's point of view
(e.g. record and leave vs. record and watch should ideally both honour
the 'end late' setting but then LiveTV would have to somehow implement
overlapping recordings transparently).

>>> apply an end late isn't worth the benefit. Not to mention the fact that
>>> hitting R during Live TV doesn't even work properly, right now--meaning
>>> any time spent on that code would be better spent fixing the brokenness.
>>
>> What else is broken?
>
> There are tons of reports from users that shows aren't properly moved
> from the Live TV recording group; or that the group is changed properly,
> but as soon as they exit Live TV, the recording ends; or that changing
> channel after hitting R ends or breaks or records the wrong show for the
> recording or ...
>
> Feel free to browse: http://code.mythtv.org/trac/report/1

Ok. I had a similar problem with the Olympics opening ceremony. I'd
set up a rule to record it but ended up watching the beginning live
before going to bed. LiveTV was already on before it started (on the
same channel) but when I exited LiveTV the recording stopped.

> (and if you can figure out any of them, and/or fix issues, and/or help
> users figure out mistakes, we'd very much appreciate the help)

I'm certainly happy to help where I can. The main problem is getting
enough time to work out the relationships between the classes so that
you can start to know where to begin with any given problem. Sometimes
it's relatively straight-forward, other times you descend into
abstraction hell :)

I also need to get a proper development environment up and running.
Doing everything from the command line is do-able but IDE's didn't
become popular for no reason :)

>> Apart from the issue I mentioned, I've not noticed any other issues
>> but it would be nice to know before they bite me (or worse, the wife :) )
>>
>> The time required to "fix" it (assuming it's broken, which is why I
>> was asking the in first place) should be less than a minute (basically
>> the time it takes to open tv_rec.cpp, search for the line above and
>> delete it).
>
> I think if you fix it that way, you'll break Live TV. TTBOMK, we'd need
> to implement the change to the rule the same way we extend recordings in
> progress. I may be wrong. Feel free to prove me wrong with a
> working/well-tested patch. I'll admit that I haven't traced all the
> code, so my understanding may be completely wrong. I'd assume if it

I won't get chance for at least a couple of weeks but it's certainly
something I could play around with just to try to get into the source
code. I think it's quite possible that removing that line would break
something but every time you break something, you learn something. If
you can figure out *why* it caused something to break, even better :)

>>> BTW, I mean /anything/ and /everything/--including news and sports and
>>> ... http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/387302#387302 )
>>
>> I get that too, but there are some programmes I just couldn't create a
>> rule for (e.g. one-offs starring no-one I've ever heard of) but I may
>> still be interested in. Maybe some sort of bayesian algorithm or the
>> like could be used but that sort of rule doesn't exist yet and would
>> also depend heavily on how much metadata is available.
>>
>> In most cases you could probably argue that these programmes probably
>> aren't *that* important to me and you'd almost certainly be right but
>> if I've started watching something, I usually want to finish watching
>> it too.
>
> And you think you're more likely to find these programs efficiently by
> tuning in whatever is currently airing and channel surfing than by
> looking at the guide and hitting R (one or more times to create the rule
> type you want)?

No. They're the sort of programme that even if I'd looked at the guide,
I still probably wouldn't have chosen to record it but having caught the
beginning and found it interesting enough to hold my attention, I may
well decide to watch the rest of it.

Re-reading what I wrote last time, it could sound like I'm looking for
these programmes. I'm not. The stuff I care about is recorded by rules
but every so often I'll put live TV on whilst I, for example, grab
something to eat because at that time there's usually something or other
on that's light entertainment, passes the time, and isn't full of
adverts. I probably have other things to do after eating so I don't
necessarily want to start watching something I've recorded because I
don't have the time to watch it all the way through (and if I care
enough about it to have created a rule for it, I'd rather watch it in
one go). Occasionally then a programme will be on that I find I'm
sufficiently interested in it now that I've started, that I'd like to
see the end of it. That's when I'll want to hit 'R'.

It's certainly the exception rather than the rule with me but I can
absolutely understand why one group of people would never want to
inflict live TV on themselves, whilst another group in different
circumstances can't see what's wrong with it. The problem is getting
the two groups to see it from the other's point of view.

Different strokes and all that :)

Richard.

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mikep at randomtraveller

Jul 31, 2012, 8:35 AM

Post #6 of 7 (304 views)
Permalink

Re: 'End late' ignored when recording LiveTV [In reply to]

On 31/07/12 16:01, Richard wrote:
>
> No. They're the sort of programme that even if I'd looked at the guide, I still
> probably wouldn't have chosen to record it but having caught the beginning and
> found it interesting enough to hold my attention, I may well decide to watch the
> rest of it.
>
> Re-reading what I wrote last time, it could sound like I'm looking for these
> programmes. I'm not. The stuff I care about is recorded by rules but every so
> often I'll put live TV on whilst I, for example, grab something to eat because
> at that time there's usually something or other on that's light entertainment,
> passes the time, and isn't full of adverts. I probably have other things to do
> after eating so I don't necessarily want to start watching something I've
> recorded because I don't have the time to watch it all the way through (and if I
> care enough about it to have created a rule for it, I'd rather watch it in one
> go). Occasionally then a programme will be on that I find I'm sufficiently
> interested in it now that I've started, that I'd like to see the end of it.
> That's when I'll want to hit 'R'.
>
> It's certainly the exception rather than the rule with me but I can absolutely
> understand why one group of people would never want to inflict live TV on
> themselves, whilst another group in different circumstances can't see what's
> wrong with it. The problem is getting the two groups to see it from the other's
> point of view.
>
Another option, which we use, depends on where in the world you are and whether
the channels available to you offer repeats.

For some of our channels, for example, there is also a "+ 1" channel. That gives
me up to an hour to log in to mythweb and schedule something I've found that
might be good.

Alternatively, just make a schedule including the program you're watching - or
have just watched. You can do that after the fact, since listings are held for
the previous seven days. Having done that, you can then monitor it for repeats
on other channels. That way, when it reappears, you'll have the whole thing on
disk - including, perhaps, the previous episodes you didn't catch because you
didn't know the program existed.

Of course, it's only disk space. If you subsequently decide you don't like what
you've recorded, there's always the 'delete' button. Nothing of value would have
been lost.

--

Mike Perkins

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mtdean at thirdcontact

Jul 31, 2012, 8:59 AM

Post #7 of 7 (305 views)
Permalink

Re: 'End late' ignored when recording LiveTV [In reply to]

On 07/31/2012 11:35 AM, Mike Perkins wrote:
> On 31/07/12 16:01, Richard wrote:
>>
>> No. They're the sort of programme that even if I'd looked at the
>> guide, I still
>> probably wouldn't have chosen to record it but having caught the
>> beginning and
>> found it interesting enough to hold my attention, I may well decide
>> to watch the
>> rest of it.
>>
>> Re-reading what I wrote last time, it could sound like I'm looking
>> for these
>> programmes. I'm not. The stuff I care about is recorded by rules
>> but every so
>> often I'll put live TV on whilst I, for example, grab something to
>> eat because
>> at that time there's usually something or other on that's light
>> entertainment,
>> passes the time, and isn't full of adverts. I probably have other
>> things to do
>> after eating so I don't necessarily want to start watching something
>> I've
>> recorded because I don't have the time to watch it all the way
>> through (and if I
>> care enough about it to have created a rule for it, I'd rather watch
>> it in one
>> go). Occasionally then a programme will be on that I find I'm
>> sufficiently
>> interested in it now that I've started, that I'd like to see the end
>> of it.
>> That's when I'll want to hit 'R'.
>>
>> It's certainly the exception rather than the rule with me but I can
>> absolutely
>> understand why one group of people would never want to inflict live
>> TV on
>> themselves, whilst another group in different circumstances can't see
>> what's
>> wrong with it. The problem is getting the two groups to see it from
>> the other's
>> point of view.
>>
> Another option, which we use, depends on where in the world you are
> and whether the channels available to you offer repeats.
>
> For some of our channels, for example, there is also a "+ 1" channel.
> That gives me up to an hour to log in to mythweb and schedule
> something I've found that might be good.
>
> Alternatively, just make a schedule including the program you're
> watching - or have just watched. You can do that after the fact, since
> listings are held for the previous seven days. Having done that, you
> can then monitor it for repeats on other channels. That way, when it
> reappears, you'll have the whole thing on disk - including, perhaps,
> the previous episodes you didn't catch because you didn't know the
> program existed.

And, really, there's also the ability to create a new recording rule
using the current program's information. This would use the scheduler's
smarts to determine whether to record the currently-airing "partial"
episode or, if there's another showing anywhere in your current
listings, it will record the later showing (basically making the
decision Mike suggested for you rather than requiring you to look up
whether there's a later showing).

I think you get to it with MENU|Schedule|Edit Recording Schedule, then
just set the options you want (generally just choose a rule type--find
one or record all or ...). Unfortunately, there's not currently an
action to allow binding a key to this function, but it may be possible
to add one (Global|EDIT is used to start the frontend channel editor in
Live TV and the recording editor (not recording rule editor) in
pre-recorded playback, so we'd have to add something new).

Note, also, that this approach /will/ apply the start early/end late
defaults. The downside is that if it chooses to record the current
showing, you will lose the already-watched-in-Live-TV parts.

> Of course, it's only disk space. If you subsequently decide you don't
> like what you've recorded, there's always the 'delete' button. Nothing
> of value would have been lost.

+1

Mike
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