Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Users

Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States?

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rkulagow at gmail

Jul 12, 2012, 11:57 AM

Post #1 of 23 (1809 views)
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Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States?

I'm doing some investigating of FTA setups but I don't have any
background knowledge. I understand how something like a cable lineup
works - download the lineup, get a channel number, and at the right
time either the tuner natively changes to that channel if it's analog,
or a channel changing script pulses IR to switch to channel "1453" and
the capture device (like a PVR-150) is recording from SVideo.

If I look at Mike's list here:

http://www.global-cm.net/MPEGlistKuBandUS.html

what sort of information is required from that table to get a
satellite STB to do the "right thing"? Does each user generate a
custom channel -> satellite number at the set top box? Is there a
lookup table maintained by the STB where the user has programmed in
something like "channel 7" -> 101 West, H-11820, 0210 ac-3 0202" when
they want to watch "PENTAGON CHANNEL SD"

and then all you do is hit "7" on your remote, or does changing
channels on a FTA STB get more complicated?

Thanks.
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jaceksburghardt at gmail

Jul 12, 2012, 12:39 PM

Post #2 of 23 (1749 views)
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Re: Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States? [In reply to]

MythTV works realy good with motor better than vdr there are few things
that you can watch.
On Jul 12, 2012 12:58 PM, "Robert Kulagowski" <rkulagow [at] gmail> wrote:

> I'm doing some investigating of FTA setups but I don't have any
> background knowledge. I understand how something like a cable lineup
> works - download the lineup, get a channel number, and at the right
> time either the tuner natively changes to that channel if it's analog,
> or a channel changing script pulses IR to switch to channel "1453" and
> the capture device (like a PVR-150) is recording from SVideo.
>
> If I look at Mike's list here:
>
> http://www.global-cm.net/MPEGlistKuBandUS.html
>
> what sort of information is required from that table to get a
> satellite STB to do the "right thing"? Does each user generate a
> custom channel -> satellite number at the set top box? Is there a
> lookup table maintained by the STB where the user has programmed in
> something like "channel 7" -> 101 West, H-11820, 0210 ac-3 0202" when
> they want to watch "PENTAGON CHANNEL SD"
>
> and then all you do is hit "7" on your remote, or does changing
> channels on a FTA STB get more complicated?
>
> Thanks.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

aovermy at yahoo

Jul 12, 2012, 1:59 PM

Post #3 of 23 (1752 views)
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Re: Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States? [In reply to]

I guess the answer is it depends. If you're using a satellite receiver, like a Traxis, to tune the channel and then have myth record that off a composite, svideo or something, then you would go the IR route. In my FTA Ku based system, I have a tuner card that hooks up to my LNB (well, my USALS motor, which hooks up to my LNB) and tunes the frequency and selects out the part of the mux of the transport based on commands from the mythbackend. In that case, what I had to do was feed in transports and scan for channels in mythtv-setup, but, what I don't have is any listings info except on the scant handful of channels that bother with EIT transmission. I imagine I could get creative and use schedules direct to pick out some channels, or use xml or something, but really, I'm good with just being able to manually record off of it.

rkulagow at gmail

Jul 12, 2012, 2:10 PM

Post #4 of 23 (1750 views)
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Re: Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States? [In reply to]

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Amy Overmyer <aovermy [at] yahoo> wrote:
> I guess the answer is it depends. If you're using a satellite receiver, like
> a Traxis, to tune the channel and then have myth record that off a
> composite, svideo or something, then you would go the IR route. In my FTA Ku
> based system, I have a tuner card that hooks up to my LNB (well, my USALS
> motor, which hooks up to my LNB) and tunes the frequency and selects out the
> part of the mux of the transport based on commands from the mythbackend. In
> that case, what I had to do was feed in transports and scan for channels in
> mythtv-setup, but, what I don't have is any listings info except on the
> scant handful of channels that bother with EIT transmission. I imagine I
> could get creative and use schedules direct to pick out some channels, or
> use xml or something, but really, I'm good with just being able to manually
> record off of it.

So on a Traxis, how is that mapping made? Since the dish can
potentially see multiple satellites at a time, isn't it possible that
two satellites have similar transponder information?

May I ask what tuner card you're using?
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aovermy at yahoo

Jul 12, 2012, 2:36 PM

Post #5 of 23 (1747 views)
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Re: Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States? [In reply to]

on a traxis, you would need a bunch of channels, as many as the traxis could see (or as many as you want to record/watch) in a database with channel numbers of some sort (many people choose numbers like 83_1, 83_2...93_1, 101_1 etc. based on the satellite they're pointing at). I have a similar set up with dish network where I receive with my dish receiver and then use component out to a HDPVR, but in that case it was easier because I had schedulesdirect to create those channels for me. Without schedulesdirect, the channel editor will need to be used.

My fta tuner card (dvb-s2) is prof-7301 pci. it uses the stv0900 driver and seems to work well with mythtv once I added in a couple of high frequency patches. This is with a Ku band system. I've not tried it with C band.

________________________________
From: Robert Kulagowski <rkulagow [at] gmail>
To: Discussion about MythTV <mythtv-users [at] mythtv>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States?

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Amy Overmyer <aovermy [at] yahoo> wrote:
> I guess the answer is it depends. If you're using a satellite receiver, like
> a Traxis, to tune the channel and then have myth record that off a
> composite, svideo or something, then you would go the IR route. In my FTA Ku
> based system, I have a tuner card that hooks up to my LNB (well, my USALS
> motor, which hooks up to my LNB) and tunes the frequency and selects out the
> part of the mux of the transport based on commands from the mythbackend. In
> that case, what I had to do was feed in transports and scan for channels in
> mythtv-setup, but, what I don't have is any listings info except on the
> scant handful of channels that bother with EIT transmission. I imagine I
> could get creative and use schedules direct to pick out some channels, or
> use xml or something, but really, I'm good with just being able to manually
> record off of it.

So on a Traxis, how is that mapping made? Since the dish can
potentially see multiple satellites at a time, isn't it possible that
two satellites have similar transponder information?

May I ask what tuner card you're using?
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rkulagow at gmail

Jul 12, 2012, 4:20 PM

Post #6 of 23 (1738 views)
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Re: Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States? [In reply to]

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Amy Overmyer <aovermy [at] yahoo> wrote:
> on a traxis, you would need a bunch of channels, as many as the traxis could
> see (or as many as you want to record/watch) in a database with channel
> numbers of some sort (many people choose numbers like 83_1, 83_2...93_1,
> 101_1 etc. based on the satellite they're pointing at).

If there are 20 available FTA on a particular transponder, it looks
like a combination of polarity, frequency and vpid are unique. But
that's a lot of typing! Do people just let their receivers run a scan,
then assign "1", "2", etc locally, so that possibly _my_ 101_1 may not
be the same as yours?
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aovermy at yahoo

Jul 12, 2012, 4:59 PM

Post #7 of 23 (1737 views)
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Re: Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States? [In reply to]

From: Robert Kulagowski <rkulagow [at] gmail>
To: Discussion about MythTV <mythtv-users [at] mythtv>

Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States?

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Amy Overmyer <aovermy [at] yahoo> wrote:
> on a traxis, you would need a bunch of channels, as many as the traxis could
> see (or as many as you want to record/watch) in a database with channel
> numbers of some sort (many people choose numbers like 83_1, 83_2...93_1,
> 101_1 etc. based on the satellite they're pointing at).

If there are 20 available FTA on a particular transponder, it looks
like a combination of polarity, frequency and vpid are unique. But
that's a lot of typing! Do people just let their receivers run a scan,
then assign "1", "2", etc locally, so that possibly _my_ 101_1 may not
be the same as yours?
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mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

Well, if you're just using a receiver, like a Traxis, then the frequency, vpid, etc. doesn't really matter as the receiver itself will be taking care of the tuning for you. What you need to worry about is matching up the traxis channels with the internal mythtv channels because what mythtv will be doing is issueing an ir_send (or whatever your channel changer uses) to a channel on the traxis. So what you'll need to work on is your chanid to channum mappings.

Yes, your 1, 2 etc. would not necessarily align with anyone else's in this circumstance.

With a dvb-s card, then you need to worry about your polarity, frequency and pids. But that way is also a lot closer to digital cable and atsc, so it's a more common use case and involves less typing unless the disorganized mess of channels gets on your nerves (basically I have it so every unique satellite I point to has its own video source), so I would wind up with a lot of weirdly named channels (plus duplicates)� if I didn't use the channel editor.

rkulagow at gmail

Jul 12, 2012, 5:11 PM

Post #8 of 23 (1740 views)
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Re: Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States? [In reply to]

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 6:59 PM, Amy Overmyer <aovermy [at] yahoo> wrote:
> Well, if you're just using a receiver, like a Traxis, then the frequency,
> vpid, etc. doesn't really matter as the receiver itself will be taking care
> of the tuning for you. What you need to worry about is matching up the
> traxis channels with the internal mythtv channels because what mythtv will
> be doing is issueing an ir_send (or whatever your channel changer uses) to a
> channel on the traxis. So what you'll need to work on is your chanid to
> channum mappings.

Getting clearer. How does the Traxis number the channels? Is it still
something a user does on a per-satellite / per-receiver basis? Is
there a common way that people setup their systems?
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dekarl at spaetfruehstuecken

Jul 12, 2012, 5:24 PM

Post #9 of 23 (1743 views)
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Re: Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States? [In reply to]

On 13.07.2012 01:20, Robert Kulagowski wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Amy Overmyer<aovermy [at] yahoo> wrote:
>> on a traxis, you would need a bunch of channels, as many as the traxis could
>> see (or as many as you want to record/watch) in a database with channel
>> numbers of some sort (many people choose numbers like 83_1, 83_2...93_1,
>> 101_1 etc. based on the satellite they're pointing at).
>
> If there are 20 available FTA on a particular transponder, it looks
> like a combination of polarity, frequency and vpid are unique. But

a possible unique key is constellation/position, frequency, polarity and
program_number (instead of vpid, as multiple services can share the same
video stream. Its useful when you switch out for local programmes and
join back for shared programmes. Its called dynamic PMT and common in
Europe)

> that's a lot of typing! Do people just let their receivers run a scan,
> then assign "1", "2", etc locally, so that possibly _my_ 101_1 may not
> be the same as yours?

Some satellite packages sent out logical channel numbers but I have
configured my cable / terrestrial backend with manually selected
channel numbers and call signs. (so one station gets the same number,
no matter if its HD/SD or DVB-C/DVB-T)

If you do nothing you'll get numbers based on the transmitted program
number and video source id.

I don't think you'll get nice LCN for US FTA ;)

There are scripts for UK floating around that set nice channel numbers
(and other properties) based on service name or
original_network_id + service_id. Providing such a script for US FTA
might be an idea.

Regards,
Karl
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anothersname at googlemail

Jul 12, 2012, 11:38 PM

Post #10 of 23 (1731 views)
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Re: Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States? [In reply to]

On 13 July 2012 01:24, Karl Dietz <dekarl [at] spaetfruehstuecken> wrote:
> On 13.07.2012 01:20, Robert Kulagowski wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Amy Overmyer<aovermy [at] yahoo> wrote:
>>>
>>> on a traxis, you would need a bunch of channels, as many as the traxis
>>> could
>>> see (or as many as you want to record/watch) in a database with channel
>>> numbers of some sort (many people choose numbers like 83_1, 83_2...93_1,
>>> 101_1 etc. based on the satellite they're pointing at).
>>
>>
>> If there are 20 available FTA on a particular transponder, it looks
>> like a combination of polarity, frequency and vpid are unique. But
>
>
> a possible unique key is constellation/position, frequency, polarity and
> program_number (instead of vpid, as multiple services can share the same
> video stream. Its useful when you switch out for local programmes and
> join back for shared programmes. Its called dynamic PMT and common in
> Europe)
>
>
>> that's a lot of typing! Do people just let their receivers run a scan,
>> then assign "1", "2", etc locally, so that possibly _my_ 101_1 may not
>> be the same as yours?
>
>
> Some satellite packages sent out logical channel numbers but I have
> configured my cable / terrestrial backend with manually selected
> channel numbers and call signs. (so one station gets the same number,
> no matter if its HD/SD or DVB-C/DVB-T)
>
> If you do nothing you'll get numbers based on the transmitted program
> number and video source id.
>
> I don't think you'll get nice LCN for US FTA ;)
>
> There are scripts for UK floating around that set nice channel numbers
> (and other properties) based on service name or
> original_network_id + service_id. Providing such a script for US FTA
> might be an idea.
>
> Regards,
> Karl
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

Can I just add my 2c to this conversation although I'm in the UK.

As may have been covered previously in this conversation but I'll
recover just for clarity......

There are TWO important numbers regarding channels

chanid which is set automagically by the system during a scan based
upon the video source (as defined in mythtv-setup)

channum which is initially defined based upon chanid but is a 'soft'
number that can be changed.

Let's say you have 3 sources.

Source 1 = Terrestrial DVB-T(2) which is supplied to your TV card via
your standard antenna. Let's call this DVB-T.

Source 2 = Satellite xx1 DVB-S(2) which is supplied to your TV card
via your motorised dish. Let's call this xx1.

Source 3 = Satellite yy2 DVB-S(2) which is supplied to your TV card
via your motorised dish. Let's call this yy2.

Firstly (I know this sounds silly but it is a trap many users fall
into) make sure that your card devices load in the same order every
time when the machine boots up. The best way to achieve this is
blacklist them and then at startup have a script that loads them in a
specific order with a small sleep between each load. If this is not
done cards can load in a different order based upon cold or warm boots
and myth will not detect the wrong DVB-S device is now occupying the
/dev/dvb/ slot where it expects a DVB-T device.

So you now have you three video sources defined, if you then scan each
source you will end up with a populated database table called
mythconverg.channel.

In mythconverg.channel the chanid for a channel is set during the scan
based upon which video source was used, for example let's say in the
UK you ONLY used a single source and that source was Freesat satellite
feed.

When you did your scan the BBC HD channel would be set a chanid of
6940 as that's the number that would get assigned by the satellite
source, have a look here.

http://www.lyngsat.com/Eutelsat-28A-and-Astra-1N-2A-2B.html

Go down to BBC HD channel on 10847 V on transponder 50 read across to
BBC HD UK and you'll see in the SID (service identifier) column the
value of 6940.

This value would be assigned by myth to be the channum number in
mythconverg.channel (channum can be changed as we'll come onto).

However let's say our system was a dual DVB-T and DVB-S system with
the DVB-T terrestrial channels being scanned first. Now when we do
our scan of DVB-S channels the BBC HD UK channel could well have a
chanid of say 8940 (adding 2000 to the SID value) to attempt to shift
all the new channels into a new non conflicting range, the channum
would still be assigned based upon the chanid and any channum
conflicts would be notified during the scan.

Taking it a stage further let's say you scanned DVB-T first, then
another satellite feed, then the feed that supplies BBC HD you might
now find that BBC HD UK has a chanid of 10940 (adding 4000 to the
SID), hopefully this makes sense.

So going back to the earlier example with the 3 feed setup of DVB-T,
xx1 and yy2. As you do each scan the database gets populated with all
the channels and if you look at the mythconverg.channel table you can
see the chanid, channum and source values for each channel.

The one variable you can change here without too many problems is
channum. This is your own 'soft' channel number that you can set your
own preferences for.

MAKE SURE THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE DUPLICATING CHANNUM VALUES, work out
what channels you want to assign to what channum values and then if
needs be get 'rid' of any conflicting channum channels by changing
their channum value to some ridiculously high number such as
999934838434xxxx to get it out of the way. Then to further clarify
what you actually show ONLY make the channels you want visible.

As touched on by someone else there are scripts that allow you to
setup your channels the way you want
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/UK_Channel_Assignments which should give
you some ideas to work from.

I would suggest that the way to configure your system is setup your
DVB-T feed as the first source you configure and ensure that this
card(s) is the first one setup in your system (it's just easier to
visualise if the physical cards match their virtual source priority).
Scan these channels first.

Then setup your second source and scan it, then your third source and
scan that. If you're using a motorised dish to feed two sources into
one card I'm not sure exactly how you'd go about programming the ir
changer to ensure the dish auto changed the satellite it's pointing at
but I'm sure that someone here will know.

Hope this helps and dual Terrestrial/Satellite systems are reasonably
common in the UK so what you're trying to do should have been done
before somewhere.

Regards
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rkulagow at gmail

Jul 13, 2012, 5:37 AM

Post #11 of 23 (1717 views)
Permalink

Re: Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States? [In reply to]

On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 1:38 AM, Another Sillyname
<anothersname [at] googlemail> wrote:
> When you did your scan the BBC HD channel would be set a chanid of
> 6940 as that's the number that would get assigned by the satellite
> source, have a look here.
>
> http://www.lyngsat.com/Eutelsat-28A-and-Astra-1N-2A-2B.html
>
> Go down to BBC HD channel on 10847 V on transponder 50 read across to
> BBC HD UK and you'll see in the SID (service identifier) column the
> value of 6940.

OK, I think that helps. The list that I was looking at didn't include
service identifier. A SID is going to be unique on a per-satellite
basis, or is it truly unique in that satellite providers coordinate to
ensure that there is no SID collision?
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anothersname at googlemail

Jul 13, 2012, 7:47 AM

Post #12 of 23 (1713 views)
Permalink

Re: Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States? [In reply to]

On 13 July 2012 13:37, Robert Kulagowski <rkulagow [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 1:38 AM, Another Sillyname
> <anothersname [at] googlemail> wrote:
>> When you did your scan the BBC HD channel would be set a chanid of
>> 6940 as that's the number that would get assigned by the satellite
>> source, have a look here.
>>
>> http://www.lyngsat.com/Eutelsat-28A-and-Astra-1N-2A-2B.html
>>
>> Go down to BBC HD channel on 10847 V on transponder 50 read across to
>> BBC HD UK and you'll see in the SID (service identifier) column the
>> value of 6940.
>
> OK, I think that helps. The list that I was looking at didn't include
> service identifier. A SID is going to be unique on a per-satellite
> basis, or is it truly unique in that satellite providers coordinate to
> ensure that there is no SID collision?
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

Generally the SID will be unique within a satellite group rather then
just one satellite (for example there are a number of satellites at
28.2E where BBC HD is transmitting from and they work in conjunction
to not transmit the same SID for channels in that location).

I missed the start of the thread and it would be useful if you could
outline exactly which services you are looking to integrate, be they
Terrestrial DVB-T(2), Cable DVB-C which service provider and rough
location (zipcode should be enough) and which satellites on DVB-S(2).

If you are getting DVB-T(2) services are you getting them from a
standard aerial feed and have you already tested quality of signal?
(I ask because I know from experience that DVB-T can be patchy in
parts of the States).

Also if you're taking multiple satellites are you intending to use a
motorised dish are you using a specific box to move the dish or do you
want the myth server to instruct the dish to move? I have to suggest
(again based upon personal experience) that motorised setups do not
work well with myth due to inevitable scheduling conflicts when the
system doesn't know which programme to prioritise and therefore
doesn't know which satellite to point at, for Live TV motorised
systems are fine but for scheduling systems such as myth a Toroidal
Dish with multiple LNB's is a much better solution.

http://www.wavefrontier.us/

I have no relationship with them but have used their 90cm dish for a
setup with good results.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/gogach/Sat%20TV/T90/16SmartOxidandTitaniumTwinLNBswith2Centauri16in1SwitchesonToroidal90cmdish_6.jpg

Excessive but shows you what can be done.

Regards
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rkulagow at gmail

Jul 13, 2012, 8:07 AM

Post #13 of 23 (1712 views)
Permalink

Re: Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States? [In reply to]

On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Another Sillyname
<anothersname [at] googlemail> wrote:
> I missed the start of the thread and it would be useful if you could
> outline exactly which services you are looking to integrate, be they
> Terrestrial DVB-T(2), Cable DVB-C which service provider and rough
> location (zipcode should be enough) and which satellites on DVB-S(2).

This is more a fishing expedition in trying to get a better
understanding of how people who get FTA satellite do things versus
what I already know about terrestrial and subscription satellite
offerings in the United States.
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anothersname at googlemail

Jul 13, 2012, 8:34 AM

Post #14 of 23 (1707 views)
Permalink

Re: Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States? [In reply to]

On 13 July 2012 16:07, Robert Kulagowski <rkulagow [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Another Sillyname
> <anothersname [at] googlemail> wrote:
>> I missed the start of the thread and it would be useful if you could
>> outline exactly which services you are looking to integrate, be they
>> Terrestrial DVB-T(2), Cable DVB-C which service provider and rough
>> location (zipcode should be enough) and which satellites on DVB-S(2).
>
> This is more a fishing expedition in trying to get a better
> understanding of how people who get FTA satellite do things versus
> what I already know about terrestrial and subscription satellite
> offerings in the United States.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

A fishing expedition for your own intended use or for an article some other use?
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aovermy at yahoo

Jul 13, 2012, 9:27 AM

Post #15 of 23 (1710 views)
Permalink

Re: Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States? [In reply to]

And I'm guessing as you mentioned FTA in the USA you're not dealing with dvb-t or dvb-c.

To be honest, I'm not sure how a Traxis numbers its channels. My Openbox S9 (which I only use occasionally since I got my dvb-s2 card and mythtv working), just increments as I add them in by scanning. And if I restore to defaults, it� starts from 1 all over again, and obviously, depending on the order I have it scan satellites, it will number the channels differently. Even if I have it scan in the same order, given the sudden appearance and disappearance of wild feeds, I will still probably not wind up with the same channel order, though I think the receiver box has some kind of channel editor within it, too.

All in all, I think for FTA dvb-s, you'd be better off using a pci or usb card to do the reception rather than going off a composite, svideo or component connection from a satellite receiver box, because you then have the possibility of scanning your channels, rather than having to add them manually. I have a A/B switch between my receiver and my pci card, that way I can either watch directly from the receiver box or give mythtv control of the dish. Though I'll have to say that I've found mythtv's tendency to randomly move the dish to other satellites when it's not in use, to get EIT info, disconcerting the first couple times it did it when I was out in my backyard.

rkulagow at gmail

Jul 13, 2012, 2:33 PM

Post #16 of 23 (1702 views)
Permalink

Re: Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States? [In reply to]

On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 7:37 AM, Robert Kulagowski <rkulagow [at] gmail>
wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 1:38 AM, Another Sillyname
> <anothersname [at] googlemail> wrote:
>> When you did your scan the BBC HD channel would be set a chanid of
>> 6940 as that's the number that would get assigned by the satellite
>> source, have a look here.
>>
>> http://www.lyngsat.com/Eutelsat-28A-and-Astra-1N-2A-2B.html
>>
>> Go down to BBC HD channel on 10847 V on transponder 50 read across to
>> BBC HD UK and you'll see in the SID (service identifier) column the
>> value of 6940.
>
> OK, I think that helps. The list that I was looking at didn't include
> service identifier. A SID is going to be unique on a per-satellite
> basis, or is it truly unique in that satellite providers coordinate to
> ensure that there is no SID collision?

OK, so doing some more reading makes me think that once MythTV has scanned
a satellite, it will fill in the dtv_multiplex and channel tables, and that
the combination of parameters will result in a unique value.

If someone who has a scan for North America can contact me I'd appreciate
it.

newbury at mandamus

Jul 13, 2012, 8:49 PM

Post #17 of 23 (1700 views)
Permalink

Re: Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States? [In reply to]

On 07/13/2012 05:33 PM, Robert Kulagowski wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 7:37 AM, Robert Kulagowski <rkulagow [at] gmail>
> wrote:
>> On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 1:38 AM, Another Sillyname
>> <anothersname [at] googlemail> wrote:
>>> When you did your scan the BBC HD channel would be set a chanid of
>>> 6940 as that's the number that would get assigned by the satellite
>>> source, have a look here.
>>>
>>> http://www.lyngsat.com/Eutelsat-28A-and-Astra-1N-2A-2B.html
>>>
>>> Go down to BBC HD channel on 10847 V on transponder 50 read across to
>>> BBC HD UK and you'll see in the SID (service identifier) column the
>>> value of 6940.
>>
>> OK, I think that helps. The list that I was looking at didn't include
>> service identifier. A SID is going to be unique on a per-satellite
>> basis, or is it truly unique in that satellite providers coordinate to
>> ensure that there is no SID collision?
>
> OK, so doing some more reading makes me think that once MythTV has scanned
> a satellite, it will fill in the dtv_multiplex and channel tables, and that
> the combination of parameters will result in a unique value.
>
> If someone who has a scan for North America can contact me I'd appreciate
> it.

This page may be useful. It lists channel, satellite, VPID and APID for
what looks like about 200 channels.

G.

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newbury at mandamus

Jul 13, 2012, 8:50 PM

Post #18 of 23 (1698 views)
Permalink

Re: Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States? [In reply to]

On 07/13/2012 05:33 PM, Robert Kulagowski wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 7:37 AM, Robert Kulagowski <rkulagow [at] gmail>
> wrote:
>> On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 1:38 AM, Another Sillyname
>> <anothersname [at] googlemail> wrote:
>>> When you did your scan the BBC HD channel would be set a chanid of
>>> 6940 as that's the number that would get assigned by the satellite
>>> source, have a look here.
>>>
>>> http://www.lyngsat.com/Eutelsat-28A-and-Astra-1N-2A-2B.html
>>>
>>> Go down to BBC HD channel on 10847 V on transponder 50 read across to
>>> BBC HD UK and you'll see in the SID (service identifier) column the
>>> value of 6940.
>>
>> OK, I think that helps. The list that I was looking at didn't include
>> service identifier. A SID is going to be unique on a per-satellite
>> basis, or is it truly unique in that satellite providers coordinate to
>> ensure that there is no SID collision?
>
> OK, so doing some more reading makes me think that once MythTV has scanned
> a satellite, it will fill in the dtv_multiplex and channel tables, and that
> the combination of parameters will result in a unique value.
>
> If someone who has a scan for North America can contact me I'd appreciate
> it.

Ok Second time, actually give the url.

http://www.saveandreplay.com/channels.asp

>
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nick.rout at gmail

Jul 13, 2012, 9:08 PM

Post #19 of 23 (1697 views)
Permalink

Re: Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States? [In reply to]

On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 3:50 PM, R. G. Newbury <newbury [at] mandamus> wrote:
> On 07/13/2012 05:33 PM, Robert Kulagowski wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 7:37 AM, Robert Kulagowski <rkulagow [at] gmail>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 1:38 AM, Another Sillyname
>>> <anothersname [at] googlemail> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> When you did your scan the BBC HD channel would be set a chanid of
>>>> 6940 as that's the number that would get assigned by the satellite
>>>> source, have a look here.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.lyngsat.com/Eutelsat-28A-and-Astra-1N-2A-2B.html
>>>>
>>>> Go down to BBC HD channel on 10847 V on transponder 50 read across to
>>>> BBC HD UK and you'll see in the SID (service identifier) column the
>>>> value of 6940.
>>>
>>>
>>> OK, I think that helps. The list that I was looking at didn't include
>>> service identifier. A SID is going to be unique on a per-satellite
>>> basis, or is it truly unique in that satellite providers coordinate to
>>> ensure that there is no SID collision?
>>
>>
>> OK, so doing some more reading makes me think that once MythTV has scanned
>> a satellite, it will fill in the dtv_multiplex and channel tables, and
>> that
>> the combination of parameters will result in a unique value.
>>
>> If someone who has a scan for North America can contact me I'd appreciate
>> it.
>
>
>
> Ok Second time, actually give the url.
>
> http://www.saveandreplay.com/channels.asp

http://www.lyngsat.com/ gives info about many many satellites.

I believe myth's database stores the serviceid rather than the vpid and apid.
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dekarl at spaetfruehstuecken

Jul 14, 2012, 9:53 PM

Post #20 of 23 (1676 views)
Permalink

Re: Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States? [In reply to]

On 13.07.2012 16:47, Another Sillyname wrote:
> On 13 July 2012 13:37, Robert Kulagowski<rkulagow [at] gmail> wrote:
>> On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 1:38 AM, Another Sillyname
>> <anothersname [at] googlemail> wrote:
>>> When you did your scan the BBC HD channel would be set a chanid of
>>> 6940 as that's the number that would get assigned by the satellite
>>> source, have a look here.
>>>
>>> http://www.lyngsat.com/Eutelsat-28A-and-Astra-1N-2A-2B.html
>>>
>>> Go down to BBC HD channel on 10847 V on transponder 50 read across to
>>> BBC HD UK and you'll see in the SID (service identifier) column the
>>> value of 6940.
>>
>> OK, I think that helps. The list that I was looking at didn't include
>> service identifier. A SID is going to be unique on a per-satellite
>> basis, or is it truly unique in that satellite providers coordinate to
>> ensure that there is no SID collision?
>
> Generally the SID will be unique within a satellite group rather then
> just one satellite (for example there are a number of satellites at
> 28.2E where BBC HD is transmitting from and they work in conjunction
> to not transmit the same SID for channels in that location).

While that's the case most of the time you should not rely on this
definition.

The service_id (which happens to be also the program_number, a concept
that is part of all MPEG transport streams be they DVB/ATSC/ISDB/DTMB)
must be unique per transport. Violation of this rule will result in a
transport that does not work for either program.

But the service_id must also be unique per original_network_id.
Violating this rule results in a setup that works a bit, but has funny
issues on some equipment. (As could be seen when the rule was violated
in early german DVB-T networks)

SES Astra happens to use ONID 1 for 19.2� E and ONID 2 for 28.8� E. But
on 19.2� E you also have some transponders from Sky/Premiere which use
their own ONID 133. (see http://www.lyngsat.com/Astra-2C.html )

(there are 2 or 3 collisions of service_id on 19.2� E with different
original_network_ids, but I forgot which.)

Btw, the original_network_id identifies the creator of the transport
multiplex while the network_id identifies the network that delivers the
transport to your receiver. As some early projects got the ONID/NID
mixed up you will find lots of places where they are mixed up.
(Cleaning this mess up in MythTV is on "my list")

Regards,
Karl

PS: Channel Number generator is here
https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/blob/master/mythtv/libs/libmythtv/channelscan/channelimporter.cpp#L424
and the channel_id generator is at
https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/blob/master/mythtv/libs/libmythtv/channelutil.cpp#L1490
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rkulagow at gmail

Jul 17, 2012, 8:44 AM

Post #21 of 23 (1602 views)
Permalink

Re: Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States? [In reply to]

> Btw, the original_network_id identifies the creator of the transport
> multiplex while the network_id identifies the network that delivers the
> transport to your receiver. As some early projects got the ONID/NID
> mixed up you will find lots of places where they are mixed up.
> (Cleaning this mess up in MythTV is on "my list")

How closely does the frequency have to match? If the "official"
listing shows that a frequency is 11280, but your equipment scans
11281, but then you tune 11280, does the equipment automatically
search a little on each side of the official frequency to lock in, or
do you need to tune in 11281 (due to the vagaries of your particular
combination of LNB, cabling, etc?)
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aovermy at yahoo

Jul 23, 2012, 12:03 AM

Post #22 of 23 (1488 views)
Permalink

Re: Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States? [In reply to]

I tried this over this weekend. It tuned just fine with a frequency just a bit off.

________________________________
From: Robert Kulagowski <rkulagow [at] gmail>
To: Discussion about MythTV <mythtv-users [at] mythtv>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States?

> Btw, the original_network_id identifies the creator of the transport
> multiplex while the network_id identifies the network that delivers the
> transport to your receiver. As some early projects got the ONID/NID
> mixed up you will find lots of places where they are mixed up.
> (Cleaning this mess up in MythTV is on "my list")

How closely does the frequency have to match? If the "official"
listing shows that a frequency is 11280, but your equipment scans
11281, but then you tune 11280, does the equipment automatically
search a little on each side of the official frequency to lock in, or
do you need to tune in 11281 (due to the vagaries of your particular
combination of LNB, cabling, etc?)
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rkulagow at gmail

Jul 23, 2012, 4:33 AM

Post #23 of 23 (1483 views)
Permalink

Re: Anyone with a MythTV and Free-to-air satellite setup in the United States? [In reply to]

On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 2:03 AM, Amy Overmyer <aovermy [at] yahoo> wrote:
> I tried this over this weekend. It tuned just fine with a frequency just a
> bit off.

OK, good to know.

Have you used either dvb-scan or w_scan (I think that's what it's
called) before? If it's possible, could you run those so that I can
see what the "rawer" data looks like before it's been massaged by
MythTV?

I'd like to credit your Schedules Direct account for the time that
you've assisted me. There are two "Overmyer" accounts; please let me
know if I should credit the one that's the same as your yahoo email
address.
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