Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Users

Note about Verizon FIOS cable cards

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avalon at osguru

Jul 12, 2012, 8:36 AM

Post #1 of 11 (1178 views)
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Note about Verizon FIOS cable cards

I think this is something others may benefit from so I'm posting an FYI to the
list.

I recently had a strange issue where all my cable card tuners (the hauppauge
version of the HDHome Run Prime) lost all their channel listings. After
checking all the mythtv related settings and not finding anything, I called
Verizon and spent a bunch of time troubleshooting the cablecards with them,
having them refresh them and even had them remove them from my account and readd
them and it didn't fix the issue.

What did fix it was rebooting the Actiontec router in the house. Apparently not
only does the Verizon cable boxes get the channel and guide data from the
router, but so do the cablecards. Immediately after rebooting the router all
three cablecards saw their channels.

Hope this helps someone in the future.

Scott
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ron at ronfrazier

Jul 12, 2012, 1:20 PM

Post #2 of 11 (1139 views)
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Re: Note about Verizon FIOS cable cards [In reply to]

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Scott Chevalley <avalon [at] osguru> wrote:
> I think this is something others may benefit from so I'm posting an FYI to the
> list.
>
> I recently had a strange issue where all my cable card tuners (the hauppauge
> version of the HDHome Run Prime) lost all their channel listings. After
> checking all the mythtv related settings and not finding anything, I called
> Verizon and spent a bunch of time troubleshooting the cablecards with them,
> having them refresh them and even had them remove them from my account and readd
> them and it didn't fix the issue.
>
> What did fix it was rebooting the Actiontec router in the house. Apparently not
> only does the Verizon cable boxes get the channel and guide data from the
> router, but so do the cablecards. Immediately after rebooting the router all
> three cablecards saw their channels.
>
> Hope this helps someone in the future.

That doesn't make sense to me. Cablecards are 1 way devices and don't
rely on internet access. Furthermore, they don't even have the
capability to be networked. So what is relying on the router? Is it
the tuning adapter (though that shouldn't affect the channel linup)?
Or does FIOS actually have a coax cable output from the router to go
into your cablecard devices?

--
Ron Frazier
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jerrymr at gmail

Jul 12, 2012, 1:50 PM

Post #3 of 11 (1133 views)
Permalink

Re: Note about Verizon FIOS cable cards [In reply to]

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Ronald Frazier <ron [at] ronfrazier> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Scott Chevalley <avalon [at] osguru>
> wrote:
> > I think this is something others may benefit from so I'm posting an FYI
> to the
> > list.
> >
> > I recently had a strange issue where all my cable card tuners (the
> hauppauge
> > version of the HDHome Run Prime) lost all their channel listings. After
> > checking all the mythtv related settings and not finding anything, I
> called
> > Verizon and spent a bunch of time troubleshooting the cablecards with
> them,
> > having them refresh them and even had them remove them from my account
> and readd
> > them and it didn't fix the issue.
> >
> > What did fix it was rebooting the Actiontec router in the house.
> Apparently not
> > only does the Verizon cable boxes get the channel and guide data from the
> > router, but so do the cablecards. Immediately after rebooting the
> router all
> > three cablecards saw their channels.
> >
> > Hope this helps someone in the future.
>
> That doesn't make sense to me. Cablecards are 1 way devices and don't
> rely on internet access. Furthermore, they don't even have the
> capability to be networked. So what is relying on the router? Is it
> the tuning adapter (though that shouldn't affect the channel linup)?
>

> Or does FIOS actually have a coax cable output from the router to go
> into your cablecard devices?
>

This. The Actiontec sucks program guide info off the network cable and
injects it onto the coax. I used to have problems with having to reboot
the Actiontec because it would periodically destabilize my lan, so I
stopped using it a long time ago.

-Jerry

eric at lisaneric

Jul 13, 2012, 2:22 PM

Post #4 of 11 (1127 views)
Permalink

Re: Note about Verizon FIOS cable cards [In reply to]

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Jerry Rubinow <jerrymr [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Ronald Frazier <ron [at] ronfrazier> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Scott Chevalley <avalon [at] osguru>
>>
>> That doesn't make sense to me. Cablecards are 1 way devices and don't
>> rely on internet access. Furthermore, they don't even have the
>> capability to be networked. So what is relying on the router? Is it
>> the tuning adapter (though that shouldn't affect the channel linup)?
>
>
>
>>
>> Or does FIOS actually have a coax cable output from the router to go
>> into your cablecard devices?
>
>
> This. The Actiontec sucks program guide info off the network cable and
> injects it onto the coax. I used to have problems with having to reboot the
> Actiontec because it would periodically destabilize my lan, so I stopped
> using it a long time ago.

I don't think that's quite right.

Yes, it's true that the Verizon cable modem/router does suck the guide
data off and spit it back out via coax to all the Verizon STB's, but
that's guide data, not channel data. The HDHR Prime or other cable
card devices have no access to the guide data at all, only the channel
map, which is something completely different.

Eric
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avalon at osguru

Jul 13, 2012, 2:42 PM

Post #5 of 11 (1115 views)
Permalink

Re: Note about Verizon FIOS cable cards [In reply to]

On 07/13/2012 05:22 PM, Eric Sharkey wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Jerry Rubinow <jerrymr [at] gmail> wrote:
>> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Ronald Frazier <ron [at] ronfrazier> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Scott Chevalley <avalon [at] osguru>
>>>
>>> That doesn't make sense to me. Cablecards are 1 way devices and don't
>>> rely on internet access. Furthermore, they don't even have the
>>> capability to be networked. So what is relying on the router? Is it
>>> the tuning adapter (though that shouldn't affect the channel linup)?
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Or does FIOS actually have a coax cable output from the router to go
>>> into your cablecard devices?
>>
>>
>> This. The Actiontec sucks program guide info off the network cable and
>> injects it onto the coax. I used to have problems with having to reboot the
>> Actiontec because it would periodically destabilize my lan, so I stopped
>> using it a long time ago.
>
> I don't think that's quite right.
>
> Yes, it's true that the Verizon cable modem/router does suck the guide
> data off and spit it back out via coax to all the Verizon STB's, but
> that's guide data, not channel data. The HDHR Prime or other cable
> card devices have no access to the guide data at all, only the channel
> map, which is something completely different.
>
> Eric
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

I thought exactly the same thing until I lost all my channel info on all 3
cables cards until I rebooted the router. You can see the channel list if you
go to the HDHomerun Prime's web page and click on Channel Lineup (I think that's
what it's called).

Before rebooting the router I only saw channel 97, and immediately after
rebooting the router I saw all my channels again, and I could immediately go to
a frontend and watch live tv where as before I kept getting "invalid virtual
channel number" in the backend log file.

If it's not the router I would, from just a curious point of view, be interested
in knowing why rebooting the router did fix it.

Scott

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jerrymr at gmail

Jul 13, 2012, 3:21 PM

Post #6 of 11 (1118 views)
Permalink

Re: Note about Verizon FIOS cable cards [In reply to]

On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 5:22 PM, Eric Sharkey <eric [at] lisaneric> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Jerry Rubinow <jerrymr [at] gmail> wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Ronald Frazier <ron [at] ronfrazier>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Scott Chevalley <avalon [at] osguru>
> >>
> >> That doesn't make sense to me. Cablecards are 1 way devices and don't
> >> rely on internet access. Furthermore, they don't even have the
> >> capability to be networked. So what is relying on the router? Is it
> >> the tuning adapter (though that shouldn't affect the channel linup)?
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Or does FIOS actually have a coax cable output from the router to go
> >> into your cablecard devices?
> >
> >
> > This. The Actiontec sucks program guide info off the network cable and
> > injects it onto the coax. I used to have problems with having to reboot
> the
> > Actiontec because it would periodically destabilize my lan, so I stopped
> > using it a long time ago.
>
> I don't think that's quite right.
>
> Yes, it's true that the Verizon cable modem/router does suck the guide
> data off and spit it back out via coax to all the Verizon STB's, but
> that's guide data, not channel data. The HDHR Prime or other cable
> card devices have no access to the guide data at all, only the channel
> map, which is something completely different.
>
> Eric
>

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that channel info was handled by the router,
just the guide info.

-Jerry

gary.buhrmaster at gmail

Jul 13, 2012, 3:23 PM

Post #7 of 11 (1126 views)
Permalink

Re: Note about Verizon FIOS cable cards [In reply to]

On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 9:42 PM, Scott Chevalley <avalon [at] osguru> wrote:
...
> If it's not the router I would, from just a curious point of view, be interested
> in knowing why rebooting the router did fix it.

The authentication/activation/channel data for (all) CableCards is broadcast
in the background on the OOB channel all the time, and is used to update
the CableCard stored/saved info, and the channel maps. That is why the
CSR statement after CableCard activation of "wait an hour for full activiation"
is actually not entirely wrong (the messages are broadcast more often than
that, but any one message may be lost, so they give it a few rounds).
The sending of a "hit" is often code for forcing the headend to send those
messages *now* for your card. [.If a CableCard does not get an update in a
(vendor specified) timeframe, it disables itself (that is why some cards will
magically turn off after a week or so)]. So, updates will happen if you wait
a little while.

Note that the 20120405 firmware in the Prime reportedly has a bug where
the channel info does not get properly updated in all cases until the
refresh time period expires. There are reportedly fixes in the next firmware
release.

So, an entirely plausible alternative explanation is that your timing
was "good" (i.e. "lucky"), and that you just happened to reboot during
a period when the messages made it to your CableCard. The only
way to be sure is to repeat the experiment and just wait patiently :-)

Gary
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jerrymr at gmail

Jul 13, 2012, 3:24 PM

Post #8 of 11 (1125 views)
Permalink

Re: Note about Verizon FIOS cable cards [In reply to]

On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Scott Chevalley <avalon [at] osguru> wrote:

> On 07/13/2012 05:22 PM, Eric Sharkey wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Jerry Rubinow <jerrymr [at] gmail>
> wrote:
> >> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Ronald Frazier <ron [at] ronfrazier>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Scott Chevalley <avalon [at] osguru>
> >>>
> >>> That doesn't make sense to me. Cablecards are 1 way devices and don't
> >>> rely on internet access. Furthermore, they don't even have the
> >>> capability to be networked. So what is relying on the router? Is it
> >>> the tuning adapter (though that shouldn't affect the channel linup)?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Or does FIOS actually have a coax cable output from the router to go
> >>> into your cablecard devices?
> >>
> >>
> >> This. The Actiontec sucks program guide info off the network cable and
> >> injects it onto the coax. I used to have problems with having to
> reboot the
> >> Actiontec because it would periodically destabilize my lan, so I stopped
> >> using it a long time ago.
> >
> > I don't think that's quite right.
> >
> > Yes, it's true that the Verizon cable modem/router does suck the guide
> > data off and spit it back out via coax to all the Verizon STB's, but
> > that's guide data, not channel data. The HDHR Prime or other cable
> > card devices have no access to the guide data at all, only the channel
> > map, which is something completely different.
> >
> > Eric
> > _______________________________________________
> > mythtv-users mailing list
> > mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> > http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> >
>
> I thought exactly the same thing until I lost all my channel info on all 3
> cables cards until I rebooted the router. You can see the channel list if
> you
> go to the HDHomerun Prime's web page and click on Channel Lineup (I think
> that's
> what it's called).
>
> Before rebooting the router I only saw channel 97, and immediately after
> rebooting the router I saw all my channels again, and I could immediately
> go to
> a frontend and watch live tv where as before I kept getting "invalid
> virtual
> channel number" in the backend log file.
>
> If it's not the router I would, from just a curious point of view, be
> interested
> in knowing why rebooting the router did fix it.
>
> Scott

I have no idea why it wasn't working until you rebooted, but I haven't had
an Actiontec on my network since long (years) before I got my Cablecard,
and I have no problem seeing the channel lineup on the HDHR Prime's web
page.

If you don't use your STB (or don't use the program guide on it), I'd ditch
the Actiontec. Those things are nasty.

-Jerry

aaron at rb303

Jul 13, 2012, 9:47 PM

Post #9 of 11 (1105 views)
Permalink

Re: Note about Verizon FIOS cable cards [In reply to]

On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 6:24 PM, Jerry Rubinow <jerrymr [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Scott Chevalley <avalon [at] osguru> wrote:
>>
>> On 07/13/2012 05:22 PM, Eric Sharkey wrote:
>> > On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Jerry Rubinow <jerrymr [at] gmail>
>> > wrote:
>> >> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Ronald Frazier <ron [at] ronfrazier>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Scott Chevalley <avalon [at] osguru>
>> >>>
>> >>> That doesn't make sense to me. Cablecards are 1 way devices and don't
>> >>> rely on internet access. Furthermore, they don't even have the
>> >>> capability to be networked. So what is relying on the router? Is it
>> >>> the tuning adapter (though that shouldn't affect the channel linup)?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> Or does FIOS actually have a coax cable output from the router to go
>> >>> into your cablecard devices?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> This. The Actiontec sucks program guide info off the network cable and
>> >> injects it onto the coax. I used to have problems with having to
>> >> reboot the
>> >> Actiontec because it would periodically destabilize my lan, so I
>> >> stopped
>> >> using it a long time ago.
>> >
>> > I don't think that's quite right.
>> >
>> > Yes, it's true that the Verizon cable modem/router does suck the guide
>> > data off and spit it back out via coax to all the Verizon STB's, but
>> > that's guide data, not channel data. The HDHR Prime or other cable
>> > card devices have no access to the guide data at all, only the channel
>> > map, which is something completely different.
>> >
>> > Eric
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > mythtv-users mailing list
>> > mythtv-users [at] mythtv
>> > http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>> >
>>
>> I thought exactly the same thing until I lost all my channel info on all 3
>> cables cards until I rebooted the router. You can see the channel list if
>> you
>> go to the HDHomerun Prime's web page and click on Channel Lineup (I think
>> that's
>> what it's called).
>>
>> Before rebooting the router I only saw channel 97, and immediately after
>> rebooting the router I saw all my channels again, and I could immediately
>> go to
>> a frontend and watch live tv where as before I kept getting "invalid
>> virtual
>> channel number" in the backend log file.
>>
>> If it's not the router I would, from just a curious point of view, be
>> interested
>> in knowing why rebooting the router did fix it.
>>
>> Scott
>
>
> I have no idea why it wasn't working until you rebooted, but I haven't had
> an Actiontec on my network since long (years) before I got my Cablecard, and
> I have no problem seeing the channel lineup on the HDHR Prime's web page.
>
> If you don't use your STB (or don't use the program guide on it), I'd ditch
> the Actiontec. Those things are nasty.
>
> -Jerry
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

I concur with this. I also don't have my Actiontec connected (also,
agree they are nasty), and have had no problems with my HDHR's +
Cablecards.
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avalon at osguru

Jul 16, 2012, 9:40 AM

Post #10 of 11 (1074 views)
Permalink

Re: Note about Verizon FIOS cable cards [In reply to]

On 07/14/2012 12:47 AM, Aaron wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 6:24 PM, Jerry Rubinow <jerrymr [at] gmail> wrote:
>> On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Scott Chevalley <avalon [at] osguru> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 07/13/2012 05:22 PM, Eric Sharkey wrote:
>>>> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Jerry Rubinow <jerrymr [at] gmail>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Ronald Frazier <ron [at] ronfrazier>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Scott Chevalley <avalon [at] osguru>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That doesn't make sense to me. Cablecards are 1 way devices and don't
>>>>>> rely on internet access. Furthermore, they don't even have the
>>>>>> capability to be networked. So what is relying on the router? Is it
>>>>>> the tuning adapter (though that shouldn't affect the channel linup)?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or does FIOS actually have a coax cable output from the router to go
>>>>>> into your cablecard devices?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This. The Actiontec sucks program guide info off the network cable and
>>>>> injects it onto the coax. I used to have problems with having to
>>>>> reboot the
>>>>> Actiontec because it would periodically destabilize my lan, so I
>>>>> stopped
>>>>> using it a long time ago.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think that's quite right.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, it's true that the Verizon cable modem/router does suck the guide
>>>> data off and spit it back out via coax to all the Verizon STB's, but
>>>> that's guide data, not channel data. The HDHR Prime or other cable
>>>> card devices have no access to the guide data at all, only the channel
>>>> map, which is something completely different.
>>>>
>>>> Eric
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> mythtv-users mailing list
>>>> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
>>>> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>>>>
>>>
>>> I thought exactly the same thing until I lost all my channel info on all 3
>>> cables cards until I rebooted the router. You can see the channel list if
>>> you
>>> go to the HDHomerun Prime's web page and click on Channel Lineup (I think
>>> that's
>>> what it's called).
>>>
>>> Before rebooting the router I only saw channel 97, and immediately after
>>> rebooting the router I saw all my channels again, and I could immediately
>>> go to
>>> a frontend and watch live tv where as before I kept getting "invalid
>>> virtual
>>> channel number" in the backend log file.
>>>
>>> If it's not the router I would, from just a curious point of view, be
>>> interested
>>> in knowing why rebooting the router did fix it.
>>>
>>> Scott
>>
>>
>> I have no idea why it wasn't working until you rebooted, but I haven't had
>> an Actiontec on my network since long (years) before I got my Cablecard, and
>> I have no problem seeing the channel lineup on the HDHR Prime's web page.
>>
>> If you don't use your STB (or don't use the program guide on it), I'd ditch
>> the Actiontec. Those things are nasty.
>>
>> -Jerry
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mythtv-users mailing list
>> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
>> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>>
>
> I concur with this. I also don't have my Actiontec connected (also,
> agree they are nasty), and have had no problems with my HDHR's +
> Cablecards.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

I can't find it now, but there was a recent reply to this thread that said that
the april 2012 HDHR Prime firmware had a problem with not retrieving the channel
lineup consistently. I checked and all three of my dcr-2650's are using a
firmware from that date. I'm not sure how much Hauppauge changes the firmware
from Silicon Dust, but I think I read somewhere that they are very similar.

Hopefully there will be an updated firmware soon before my channels go missing
again.

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gary.buhrmaster at gmail

Jul 16, 2012, 10:11 AM

Post #11 of 11 (1069 views)
Permalink

Re: Note about Verizon FIOS cable cards [In reply to]

On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Scott Chevalley <avalon [at] osguru> wrote:
....
> I can't find it now, but there was a recent reply to this thread that said that
> the april 2012 HDHR Prime firmware had a problem with not retrieving the channel
> lineup consistently.

I believe I made that reply, based on a comment in one of the SiliconDust
forums from one of their employees regarding fixes that went into one of
their betas (which have been pulled for other reasons). I suspect you can
find the details on their forums if you need the specifics (it was not a
"this is always a problem" issue, it was a "this can be a problem under
specific circumstances" issue). Of course, those may all be irrelevant,
since Hauppauge may have different versioning/bugs/features. They
are the ones you would need to open a support ticket with for help.

Gary
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