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8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality)

 

 

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evuraan at gmail

Jun 9, 2012, 2:00 PM

Post #1 of 30 (4167 views)
Permalink
8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality)

I run 0.23.0+fixes24158-0ubuntu2 (cant upgrade yet), on ubuntu 12.04
lucid, and was using an nvidia 8400 GS, (vdpau slim), and went to
nvidia GT430 (VDPAU High Quality) two days ago after
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/VDPAU seemed to qualify GT430 as a decent
card.

[ 17.819394] NVRM: loading NVIDIA UNIX x86 Kernel Module 295.53
Fri May 11 23:13:15 PDT 2012


(1) Now that I look in the mailing list archives, there seems to be
talks about GT430 having issues in 60Hz countries, (I live in one,
US),
(2) I was getting tons of "NVP(6): prebuffering pause" messages, but
setting vdpaubuffersize=32 improved the situation
(3) I still experience random pauses while playing 1080 OTA
recordings, and with these corresponding entries in my log
2012-06-09 13:35:16.303 WriteAudio: buffer underrun

Considering those, and that I can return the GT430 w/o $$ penalty and
get/exchange_for a better & suitable card, I wanted to reach out for
suggestion.

What's a better(!) card for use in the USA, I am looking to use VDPAU
High Quality?

I am sure some of you went this trail before me, your suggestions
will be much appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.!
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digitalaudiorock at gmail

Jun 11, 2012, 12:15 PM

Post #2 of 30 (4068 views)
Permalink
Re: 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality) [In reply to]

On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Evuraan <evuraan [at] gmail> wrote:
> I run 0.23.0+fixes24158-0ubuntu2 (cant upgrade yet), on ubuntu 12.04
> lucid, and was using an nvidia 8400 GS, (vdpau slim), and went to
> nvidia GT430 (VDPAU High Quality) two days ago after
> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/VDPAU seemed to qualify GT430 as a decent
> card.
>
> [   17.819394] NVRM: loading NVIDIA UNIX x86 Kernel Module  295.53
> Fri May 11 23:13:15 PDT 2012
>
>
> (1) Now that I look in the mailing list archives, there seems to be
> talks about GT430 having issues in 60Hz countries, (I live in one,
> US),
> (2) I was getting tons of "NVP(6): prebuffering pause" messages, but
> setting vdpaubuffersize=32 improved the situation
> (3) I still experience random pauses while playing 1080 OTA
> recordings, and with these corresponding entries  in my log
>     2012-06-09 13:35:16.303 WriteAudio: buffer underrun
>
> Considering those, and that I can return the GT430 w/o $$ penalty and
> get/exchange_for a better & suitable card, I wanted to reach out for
> suggestion.
>
> What's a better(!) card for use in the USA, I am looking to use VDPAU
> High Quality?
>
> I am sure some of you went this trail  before me, your suggestions
> will be much appreciated.
>
> Many thanks in advance.!

I'm in the US as well (I get New York OTA broadcast channels). I
recently went from an old GeForce 7100GS with no VDPAU at all to a
small form factor GT 430 card and it handles VDPAU high quality
without a hitch. Not only 720p/1080i OTA but 1080p x264 videos and
others as well. That makes me wonder if it isn't just something in
your configuration.

I see you're getting audio buffer underruns. It's probably one of the
first things you checked, but do you have Enable Extra Audio Buffering
set?

Tom
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jyavenard at gmail

Jun 11, 2012, 12:29 PM

Post #3 of 30 (4036 views)
Permalink
Re: 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality) [In reply to]

On 12 June 2012 05:15, Tom Dexter <digitalaudiorock [at] gmail> wrote:
> I see you're getting audio buffer underruns.  It's probably one of the
> first things you checked, but do you have Enable Extra Audio Buffering
> set?

no need to check, because if you use VDPAU, this option is automatically enabled
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gary.buhrmaster at gmail

Jun 11, 2012, 1:01 PM

Post #4 of 30 (4063 views)
Permalink
Re: 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality) [In reply to]

On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 7:15 PM, Tom Dexter <digitalaudiorock [at] gmail> wrote:
....
> I'm in the US as well (I get New York OTA broadcast channels).  I
> recently went from an old GeForce 7100GS with no VDPAU at all to a
> small form factor GT 430 card and it handles VDPAU high quality
> without a hitch.  Not only 720p/1080i OTA but 1080p x264 videos and
> others as well.  That makes me wonder if it isn't just something in
> your configuration.

The issue with the 430 is only for interlaced content (where the
GPU is running code), all the VDPAU cards have dedicated
decoding hardware for mpeg1/2, h.264 (various capabilities in the
various cards). The specs when running the 430 indicate that the
card simply has little to no headroom for 60hz interlaced content,
so that if the particular activity is either interrupted to do something
else (the card does have to deal with other things), or the process
is slightly more complex for some scene or another, there may
be "glitches" in the output. And, to make matters even more
different, there are reports that various nVidia driver versions have
made a difference (some seem to work faster than others, although
I have not seen any definitive reference, just anecdotal reports).

Unfortunately, not all interlaced content is the same,
and broadcasters encode/compress differently in different
areas. So even the NBC broadcast in NYC may be
different than the NBC broadcast in Chicago. So, what
works for one might not work for another.

There are numerous things one can do to "improve" the 430 in
the US.
* Turn off composite (in the xorg.conf)
* Overclock (if your card supports it).
* Do not notice the occasional "glitch" (some people simply
do not see the "glitches", for others, they can not ignore
the glitches/artifacts).
* Run a "faster" card. Where, interestingly, that might mean
a 2xx card (if you do not need HDMI audio). The architectural
changes in the 4xx series required GPU resources than a
2xx card (I do not remember which 2xx cards are the current
favorite, I just remember some of them were actually better;
the list archives should tell you).

I do agree that in this particular case, it sounds like something
else (than the 430 opportunities) may be going on.

Gary
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lists.md301 at gmail

Jun 11, 2012, 1:41 PM

Post #5 of 30 (4064 views)
Permalink
Re: 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality) [In reply to]

On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 4:01 PM, Gary Buhrmaster
<gary.buhrmaster [at] gmail>wrote:

> The issue with the 430 is only for interlaced content (where the
> GPU is running code), all the VDPAU cards have dedicated
> decoding hardware for mpeg1/2, h.264 (various capabilities in the
> various cards). The specs when running the 430 indicate that the
> card simply has little to no headroom for 60hz interlaced content,
> so that if the particular activity is either interrupted to do something
> else (the card does have to deal with other things), or the process
> is slightly more complex for some scene or another, there may
> be "glitches" in the output.
>

This is the second time you've said this, and nobody else has contradicted
you, but are you sure you mean the 430, not the 520 series.

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/480941

Note that one of your fellow developers (wagnerrp) provided the performance
stats back then.* *The conclusion of that thread seemed to be that the 430
was sufficient, but has the real world proven otherwise since? I understand
what you're saying about card overhead, but I don't remember seeing
anything on the mailing list since then to contradict, until now. The
attraction of the 430 being it handles HDMI audio and can be found fanless.

I have a fanless GT430 myself (the above email and the capabilities helped
make my decision), and for the most part used Advanced 2x with no problems
(gentoo 0.24.1, nvidia-drivers-275.09.07, Samsung LCD-LED 55")...except:
this has been my first baseball season with this configuration, and I've
been noticing weird motion artifact during the pitcher's wind-up and the
batters swing. I'm unsure if it's deinterlacing, or something else.
(Never noticed any issues during football or hockey seasons.) Nothing
obvious shows up in the verbose playback frontend logging. Just today I've
upgraded to a more recent nvidia 295.49 driver, which I have yet to test
(view playback). For what it's worth, I've also had audio sync issues with
certain DVD rips with the Advanced 2x (Batman Begins, The Dark Knight),
which were not present if I switched to Temporal 2x. I'll see tonight if
the newer driver makes any difference.


neilcoo at yahoo

Jun 11, 2012, 1:49 PM

Post #6 of 30 (4055 views)
Permalink
Re: 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality) [In reply to]

--- On Mon, 6/11/12, lists.md301 <lists.md301 [at] gmail> wrote:

From: lists.md301 <lists.md301 [at] gmail>
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality)
To: "Discussion about MythTV" <mythtv-users [at] mythtv>
Date: Monday, June 11, 2012, 1:41 PM



On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 4:01 PM, Gary Buhrmaster <gary.buhrmaster [at] gmail> wrote:

The issue with the 430 is only for interlaced content (where the

GPU is running code), all the VDPAU cards have dedicated

decoding hardware for mpeg1/2, h.264 (various capabilities in the

various cards).  The specs when running the 430 indicate that the

card simply has little to no headroom for 60hz interlaced content,

so that if the particular activity is either interrupted to do something

else (the card does have to deal with other things), or the process

is slightly more complex for some scene or another, there may

be "glitches" in the output. 

This is the second time you've said this, and nobody else has contradicted you, but are you sure you mean the 430, not the 520 series.

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/480941


Note that one of your fellow developers (wagnerrp) provided the performance stats back then. The conclusion of that thread seemed to be that the 430 was sufficient, but has the real world proven otherwise since? I understand what you're saying about card overhead, but I don't remember seeing anything on the mailing list since then to contradict, until now.  The attraction of the 430 being it handles HDMI audio and can be found fanless.


I have a fanless GT430 myself (the above email and the capabilities helped make my decision), and for the most part used Advanced 2x with no problems (gentoo 0.24.1, nvidia-drivers-275.09.07, Samsung LCD-LED 55")...except: this has been my first baseball season with this configuration, and I've been noticing weird motion artifact during the pitcher's wind-up and the batters swing.  I'm unsure if it's deinterlacing, or something else.  (Never noticed any issues during football or hockey seasons.)  Nothing obvious shows up in the verbose playback frontend logging.  Just today I've upgraded to a more recent nvidia 295.49 driver, which I have yet to test (view playback).  For what it's worth, I've also had audio sync issues with certain DVD rips with the Advanced 2x (Batman Begins, The Dark Knight), which were not present if I switched to Temporal 2x.  I'll see tonight if the newer driver makes any difference.


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

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maybe I'm just lucky or something but my 520 performs perfectly on everything, including 60hz interlaced content.


gary.buhrmaster at gmail

Jun 11, 2012, 5:05 PM

Post #7 of 30 (4048 views)
Permalink
Re: 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality) [In reply to]

On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 8:41 PM, lists.md301 <lists.md301 [at] gmail> wrote:
.....
> This is the second time you've said this, and nobody else has contradicted
> you, but are you sure you mean the 430, not the 520 series.

From someone with a 430 (and can make it tolerable to him by
disabling some features):

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/516890#516890

and another link:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/506048#506048


As with much else, individual systems and experience will vary.
In particular, I note that a lot of people simply do not notice the
glitches that drive me crazy even on regular OTA broadcasts
on (what are claimed to be) magic TV "480Hz" magic decoders
(nothing to do with MythTV or VDPAU decoding/deinterlacing).
There was another thread (that I can't find now) about someone
else who was (extremely) picky, and noticed all the artifacts
and glitches that even some of the best TV's showed with their
advanced decoding. He pointed out that once you notice them,
you cannot ignore them, but a lot of people never see them
(until he "ruined" their lives by pointing it out to them).

Gary
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mythtv-list at dinkum

Jun 13, 2012, 12:47 AM

Post #8 of 30 (4025 views)
Permalink
Re: 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality) [In reply to]

On 12 Jun 2012, at 01:05, Gary Buhrmaster wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 8:41 PM, lists.md301 <lists.md301 [at] gmail> wrote:
> .....
>> This is the second time you've said this, and nobody else has contradicted
>> you, but are you sure you mean the 430, not the 520 series.
>
> From someone with a 430 (and can make it tolerable to him by
> disabling some features):
>
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/516890#516890
>
> and another link:
>
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/506048#506048
>
>
> As with much else, individual systems and experience will vary.
> In particular, I note that a lot of people simply do not notice the
> glitches that drive me crazy even on regular OTA broadcasts
> on (what are claimed to be) magic TV "480Hz" magic decoders
> (nothing to do with MythTV or VDPAU decoding/deinterlacing).
> There was another thread (that I can't find now) about someone
> else who was (extremely) picky, and noticed all the artifacts
> and glitches that even some of the best TV's showed with their
> advanced decoding. He pointed out that once you notice them,
> you cannot ignore them, but a lot of people never see them
> (until he "ruined" their lives by pointing it out to them).

I'll try not to do that again ;-)

I would like to add that since upgrading to 0.25 this week the glitches my GT430 (factory overclocked) was showing on credits and full white or full black scenes have completely gone, all running smoothly on both 1080i50 and 1080i60 at Advanced 2x.

Andre
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gbr at majentis

Jun 13, 2012, 4:25 AM

Post #9 of 30 (4009 views)
Permalink
Re: 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality) [In reply to]

>
> I would like to add that since upgrading to 0.25 this week the
> glitches my GT430 (factory overclocked) was showing on credits and
> full white or full black scenes have completely gone, all running
> smoothly on both 1080i50 and 1080i60 at Advanced 2x.
>
> Andre

Interesting. I can't run mine on VDPAU High Quality, it doesn't give smooth playback. I have to go VDPAU Normal. I have an ASUS gt430 with a fan (ugh) and .25 fixes. My provider is Shaw and I use an HDPVR to record.

Gerald
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gary.buhrmaster at gmail

Jun 13, 2012, 7:51 AM

Post #10 of 30 (4007 views)
Permalink
Re: 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality) [In reply to]

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 4:25 AM, Gerald Brandt <gbr [at] majentis> wrote:
....
> Interesting. I can't run mine on VDPAU High Quality, it doesn't give smooth playback.  I have to go VDPAU Normal.  I have an ASUS gt430 with a fan (ugh) and .25 fixes.  My provider is Shaw and I use an HDPVR to record.

With a .uk address, Andre likely views more 50Hz content
(and he stated he has a factory overclocked 430 which would
help with any 60Hz content which he might obtain), and Shaw
cable suggests a 60Hz country, and you did not indicate if
your 430 was overclocked. These may all be contributors
to the "it works fine"/"the playback glitches" back and forth
on list.

The most recent review I am aware of for the HTPC GPUs:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4380/discrete-htpc-gpus-shootout
shows that (in Windows, with its different drivers and
capabilities) the GT520 and the GT430 have artifacts in
de-interlacing observable both in the lab and practice
(they also discussed many other facets of the various
nVidia and ATI cards performance). Your experience will vary.

Gary
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mythtv-list at dinkum

Jun 13, 2012, 8:20 AM

Post #11 of 30 (4013 views)
Permalink
Re: 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality) [In reply to]

On 13 Jun 2012, at 15:51, Gary Buhrmaster wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 4:25 AM, Gerald Brandt <gbr [at] majentis> wrote:
> ....
>> Interesting. I can't run mine on VDPAU High Quality, it doesn't give smooth playback. I have to go VDPAU Normal. I have an ASUS gt430 with a fan (ugh) and .25 fixes. My provider is Shaw and I use an HDPVR to record.
>
> With a .uk address, Andre likely views more 50Hz content
> (and he stated he has a factory overclocked 430 which would
> help with any 60Hz content which he might obtain),

I move about a bit so some content from UK (50hz), some from Germany (also 50hz) and some OTA from Boston so 60hz.

I also have a waterproof camcorder which records 720p60 although that's easy for vdpau with no de-interlacing to do.

I made a special point of buying an overclocked 430 this one:
http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3611#ov

As I had seen that the benchmarks were a little tight, it does overheat easily which causes a great deal of glitching. Currently running with a huge slow fan instead of the original two little ones and no case top while I work out how to cool it properly.

Maybe the OP's 430 is getting a little warm.

Prior to the 0.25 upgrade I was considering swapping back to my GT220.

I only run de-interlacing at Advanced 2x anything else looks terrible IMPO.

Andre



> and Shaw
> cable suggests a 60Hz country, and you did not indicate if
> your 430 was overclocked. These may all be contributors
> to the "it works fine"/"the playback glitches" back and forth
> on list.
>
> The most recent review I am aware of for the HTPC GPUs:
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/4380/discrete-htpc-gpus-shootout
> shows that (in Windows, with its different drivers and
> capabilities) the GT520 and the GT430 have artifacts in
> de-interlacing observable both in the lab and practice
> (they also discussed many other facets of the various
> nVidia and ATI cards performance). Your experience will vary.
>
> Gary
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

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gary.buhrmaster at gmail

Jun 13, 2012, 11:41 AM

Post #12 of 30 (3987 views)
Permalink
Re: 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality) [In reply to]

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 3:20 PM, Andre <mythtv-list [at] dinkum> wrote:
....
> I made a special point of buying an overclocked 430 this one:
> http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3611#ov

Less than 5% overclocked from the "reference" design. But if
you are right on the edge, that can make a difference.

> As I had seen that the benchmarks were a little tight, it does overheat easily which causes a great deal of glitching. Currently running with a huge slow fan instead of the original two little ones and no case top while I work out how to cool it properly.

LN2 should work just fine. The problem is the tank :-)

> Maybe the OP's 430 is getting a little warm.

You could be right. Just as with CPUs (since P4 days?),
current GPUs will slow the clock down to protect against
overheating, and when you are near the edge, every few
percent can matter.

> I only run de-interlacing at Advanced 2x anything else looks terrible IMPO.

I would agree. I am also of the "especially picky" group
(and then there is the issue of correctly matching the
source frame rate to avoid the once every 100-500 frame
(depending on the match) glitch that can occur in some
cases).

Gary
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mythtv-list at dinkum

Jun 19, 2012, 2:18 AM

Post #13 of 30 (3894 views)
Permalink
Re: 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality) [In reply to]

On 13 Jun 2012, at 20:41, Gary Buhrmaster wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 3:20 PM, Andre <mythtv-list [at] dinkum> wrote:
> ....
>> I made a special point of buying an overclocked 430 this one:
>> http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3611#ov
>
> Less than 5% overclocked from the "reference" design. But if
> you are right on the edge, that can make a difference.

Well it seems I spoke too soon, had only upgraded a few days before!

I'm seeing glitches on some bluray rip playback 1080p24 mkv and some subtle av sync slips in 1080i25 h264 recordings, I think I will be dusting off my GT220 shortly.



>
>> As I had seen that the benchmarks were a little tight, it does overheat easily which causes a great deal of glitching. Currently running with a huge slow fan instead of the original two little ones and no case top while I work out how to cool it properly.
>
> LN2 should work just fine. The problem is the tank :-)
>
>> Maybe the OP's 430 is getting a little warm.
>
> You could be right. Just as with CPUs (since P4 days?),
> current GPUs will slow the clock down to protect against
> overheating, and when you are near the edge, every few
> percent can matter.
>
>> I only run de-interlacing at Advanced 2x anything else looks terrible IMPO.
>
> I would agree. I am also of the "especially picky" group
> (and then there is the issue of correctly matching the
> source frame rate to avoid the once every 100-500 frame
> (depending on the match) glitch that can occur in some
> cases).

Agreed but across the 60hz world people are used to watching movies on TV with 3:2 pulldown, so I guess if they can get used to and ignore that mess they can easily ignore the more subtle motion glitches.

Andre
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alex at alexfisher

Jun 19, 2012, 4:27 AM

Post #14 of 30 (3887 views)
Permalink
Re: 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality) [In reply to]

On 9 June 2012 22:00, Evuraan <evuraan [at] gmail> wrote:
> I run 0.23.0+fixes24158-0ubuntu2 (cant upgrade yet), on ubuntu 12.04
> lucid, and was using an nvidia 8400 GS, (vdpau slim), and went to
> nvidia GT430 (VDPAU High Quality) two days ago after
> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/VDPAU seemed to qualify GT430 as a decent
> card.
>
> [   17.819394] NVRM: loading NVIDIA UNIX x86 Kernel Module  295.53
> Fri May 11 23:13:15 PDT 2012
>
>
> (1) Now that I look in the mailing list archives, there seems to be
> talks about GT430 having issues in 60Hz countries, (I live in one,
> US),
> (2) I was getting tons of "NVP(6): prebuffering pause" messages, but
> setting vdpaubuffersize=32 improved the situation
> (3) I still experience random pauses while playing 1080 OTA
> recordings, and with these corresponding entries  in my log
>     2012-06-09 13:35:16.303 WriteAudio: buffer underrun
>
> Considering those, and that I can return the GT430 w/o $$ penalty and
> get/exchange_for a better & suitable card, I wanted to reach out for
> suggestion.
>
> What's a better(!) card for use in the USA, I am looking to use VDPAU
> High Quality?

Hi

Asus do a fanless GT440.
http://www.asus.com/Graphics_Cards/NVIDIA_Series/ENGT440_DC_SLDI1GD3/

It's not much more expensive. Perhaps it will give the extra boost in
performance you need?

Kind Regards,
Alex
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peter_s_d at fastmail

Jun 19, 2012, 11:38 PM

Post #15 of 30 (3879 views)
Permalink
Re: 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality) [In reply to]

On Tue, 19 Jun 2012, Alexander Fisher wrote:
> On 9 June 2012 22:00, Evuraan <evuraan [at] gmail> wrote:
> > I run 0.23.0+fixes24158-0ubuntu2 (cant upgrade yet), on ubuntu 12.04
> > lucid, and was using an nvidia 8400 GS, (vdpau slim), and went to
> > nvidia GT430 (VDPAU High Quality) two days ago after
> > http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/VDPAU seemed to qualify GT430 as a decent
> > card.
> >
> > [ 17.819394] NVRM: loading NVIDIA UNIX x86 Kernel Module 295.53
> > Fri May 11 23:13:15 PDT 2012
> >
> >
> > (1) Now that I look in the mailing list archives, there seems to be
> > talks about GT430 having issues in 60Hz countries, (I live in one,
> > US),
> > (2) I was getting tons of "NVP(6): prebuffering pause" messages, but
> > setting vdpaubuffersize=32 improved the situation
> > (3) I still experience random pauses while playing 1080 OTA
> > recordings, and with these corresponding entries in my log
> > 2012-06-09 13:35:16.303 WriteAudio: buffer underrun
> >
> > Considering those, and that I can return the GT430 w/o $$ penalty and
> > get/exchange_for a better & suitable card, I wanted to reach out for
> > suggestion.
> >
> > What's a better(!) card for use in the USA, I am looking to use VDPAU
> > High Quality?
>
> Hi
>
> Asus do a fanless GT440.
> http://www.asus.com/Graphics_Cards/NVIDIA_Series/ENGT440_DC_SLDI1GD3/
>
> It's not much more expensive. Perhaps it will give the extra boost in
> performance you need?
>
> Kind Regards,
> Alex

You can get a fanless GTS450, which I assume is better again.
<http://www.quietpc.com/products/vga-cards/zo-gt450>
Although nVidia's numbering scheme is a bit confusing.
Does anyone have a list of model numbers necessary for
different degrees of perfection?

--
blind Pete
Sig goes here...


jaglover at gmail

Jun 20, 2012, 4:53 AM

Post #16 of 30 (3869 views)
Permalink
Re: 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality) [In reply to]

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:38:20 +1000
blind Pete <peter_s_d [at] fastmail> wrote:

> You can get a fanless GTS450, which I assume is better again.
> <http://www.quietpc.com/products/vga-cards/zo-gt450>
> Although nVidia's numbering scheme is a bit confusing.
> Does anyone have a list of model numbers necessary for
> different degrees of perfection?

Maybe this helps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_PureVideo#Table_of_PureVideo_.28HD.29_GPUs

--
Cheers, Saul
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gbr at majentis

Jun 20, 2012, 5:00 AM

Post #17 of 30 (3870 views)
Permalink
Re: 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality) [In reply to]

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Saul A. Peebsen" <jaglover [at] gmail>
> To: mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 6:53:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality)
>
> On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:38:20 +1000
> blind Pete <peter_s_d [at] fastmail> wrote:
>
> > You can get a fanless GTS450, which I assume is better again.
> > <http://www.quietpc.com/products/vga-cards/zo-gt450>
> > Although nVidia's numbering scheme is a bit confusing.
> > Does anyone have a list of model numbers necessary for
> > different degrees of perfection?
>
> Maybe this helps.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_PureVideo#Table_of_PureVideo_.28HD.29_GPUs
>

I'm looking to replace my low-profile (with fan) GT-430 with another low-profile fanless card. I haven't been able to find one. Any ideas?

Gerald
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wepprop at gmail

Jun 20, 2012, 9:14 AM

Post #18 of 30 (3871 views)
Permalink
Re: 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality) [In reply to]

On Jun 20, 2012, at 7:00 AM, Gerald Brandt <gbr [at] majentis> wrote:

> I'm looking to replace my low-profile (with fan) GT-430 with another low-profile fanless card. I haven't been able to find one. Any ideas?

Fanless low profile NVidia cards that support VDPAU will not support Advanced,2X deinterlacing - you'll have to use Temporal,2X. If you go that route, I recommend a GT520.

If you discover a low profile card with a quiet and long lived fan that supports flawless playback using Advanced,2X deinterlacing, please let me know. I already know that GT430's don't give me flawless playback and the fan on my GT220 died a loud death after about two months.

The other low profile alternative is OpenGL playback with AMD or Intel Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge CPU graphics. I have had good luck with the Sandy Bridge solution and have converted two of my three frontends to that playback method.
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mythtv at theseekerr

Jun 20, 2012, 9:24 AM

Post #19 of 30 (3863 views)
Permalink
Re: 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality) [In reply to]

On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 2:14 AM, William Powers <wepprop [at] gmail> wrote:

> On Jun 20, 2012, at 7:00 AM, Gerald Brandt <gbr [at] majentis> wrote:
>
> > I'm looking to replace my low-profile (with fan) GT-430 with another
> low-profile fanless card. I haven't been able to find one. Any ideas?
>
> Fanless low profile NVidia cards that support VDPAU will not support
> Advanced,2X deinterlacing - you'll have to use Temporal,2X. If you go that
> route, I recommend a GT520.
>
> If you discover a low profile card with a quiet and long lived fan that
> supports flawless playback using Advanced,2X deinterlacing, please let me
> know. I already know that GT430's don't give me flawless playback and the
> fan on my GT220 died a loud death after about two months.
>
> The other low profile alternative is OpenGL playback with AMD or Intel
> Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge CPU graphics. I have had good luck with the
> Sandy Bridge solution and have converted two of my three frontends to that
> playback method.


GT640's are just starting to become available as desktop cards - they're
based on chips intended for laptop usage, so I expect a low-profile version
will be along shortly. They should be ~40% faster than GT440's (which are
basically just factory overclocked GT430's) which would make them strong
contenders as HTPC cards if a fanless version shows up.

- Chris


briandlong at gmail

Jun 20, 2012, 10:02 AM

Post #20 of 30 (3868 views)
Permalink
Re: 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality) [In reply to]

On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 12:14 PM, William Powers <wepprop [at] gmail> wrote:

> On Jun 20, 2012, at 7:00 AM, Gerald Brandt <gbr [at] majentis> wrote:
>
> > I'm looking to replace my low-profile (with fan) GT-430 with another
> low-profile fanless card. I haven't been able to find one. Any ideas?
>
> Fanless low profile NVidia cards that support VDPAU will not support
> Advanced,2X deinterlacing - you'll have to use Temporal,2X. If you go that
> route, I recommend a GT520.
>

After reading this thread, it makes me think this wiki article has
incorrect information about which cards offer Advanced 2X without artefacts:
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/VDPAU#Card_status

Specifically should the GT430/Advanced (2x) entry be updated with a caveat?

/Brian/


gary.buhrmaster at gmail

Jun 20, 2012, 10:19 AM

Post #21 of 30 (3879 views)
Permalink
Re: 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality) [In reply to]

On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Christopher Kerr <mythtv [at] theseekerr> wrote:
....
> GT640's are just starting to become available as desktop cards - they're
> based on chips intended for laptop usage, so I expect a low-profile version
> will be along shortly. They should be ~40% faster than GT440's (which are
> basically just factory overclocked GT430's) which would make them strong
> contenders as HTPC cards if a fanless version shows up.

There is "faster" and there is "faster". For many applications, the
GT430 is "faster" than a GT220, but not for running the de-interlacer
code (the improvements are elsewhere). Any recent nVidia card
can do decoding of the usual codecs (mpeg/h264) via dedicated
hardware. The code that does the deinterlacing runs in the
stream processors, and how many are needed, at what clock
speed, is highly dependent on not only your content type but the
nVidia stream processor architecture. I have seen no
evaluation of the GT640M (the M is important) in regards to
its capability (even using the admittedly sometimes questionable
results from qvdpautest). Do you have a reference that shows
the results on a GT640M?

The nVidia triad for Linux HTPC: Low-profile, fan-less, able to
perform Advanced 2X de-interlacing for all content in 60Hz
countries. Pick any two (well, that is slightly unfair, since
there is other criteria such as HDMI audio, and the presumption
that fan-less does not include cooling solutions such as
water heat transfer, and you are not going to do SMT rework
to change the card layout, etc.)

Gary
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gary.buhrmaster at gmail

Jun 20, 2012, 10:30 AM

Post #22 of 30 (3851 views)
Permalink
Re: 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality) [In reply to]

On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Brian Long <briandlong [at] gmail> wrote:
....
> After reading this thread, it makes me think this wiki article has incorrect
> information about which cards offer Advanced 2X without artefacts:
> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/VDPAU#Card_status
>
> Specifically should the GT430/Advanced (2x) entry be updated with a caveat?

As I think I suggested in another thread, a missing column in
the table is the content frequency. The GT430(*) is reportedly
adequate in 50Hz content countries. And then there is the column
that reflects ones tolerance to jitter. Some never see what others
cringe at (this column would be hard to objectively evaluate). And
then there is the column for ability to sync to the actual frequency
(not 30Hz, but 29.997, not 60Hz by 59.94Hz), and the obvious ones
like HDMI audio support.

I, for one, would welcome someone trying to codify the various caveats,
but, unfortunately, I suspect the table would need to be 5+ dimensional,
or the caveats would each need their own wiki article (and that even
presumes one could agree on the caveats("citation needed")).

Gary

(*) The "standard" GT430. There are those overclocked, underclocked,
using different memories, etc.
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digitalaudiorock at gmail

Jun 20, 2012, 4:08 PM

Post #23 of 30 (3867 views)
Permalink
Re: 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality) [In reply to]

On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Gary Buhrmaster
<gary.buhrmaster [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Brian Long <briandlong [at] gmail> wrote:
> ....
>> After reading this thread, it makes me think this wiki article has incorrect
>> information about which cards offer Advanced 2X without artefacts:
>> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/VDPAU#Card_status
>>
>> Specifically should the GT430/Advanced (2x) entry be updated with a caveat?
>
> As I think I suggested in another thread, a missing column in
> the table is the content frequency.  The GT430(*) is reportedly
> adequate in 50Hz content countries.  And then there is the column
> that reflects ones tolerance to jitter.  Some never see what others
> cringe at (this column would be hard to objectively evaluate).  And
> then there is the column for ability to sync to the actual frequency
> (not 30Hz, but 29.997, not 60Hz by 59.94Hz), and the obvious ones
> like HDMI audio support.
>
> I, for one, would welcome someone trying to codify the various caveats,
> but, unfortunately, I suspect the table would need to be 5+ dimensional,
> or the caveats would each need their own wiki article (and that even
> presumes one could agree on the caveats("citation needed")).
>
> Gary
>
> (*) The "standard" GT430.  There are those overclocked, underclocked,
> using different memories, etc.

I just recently started using VDPAU for the first time after buying a
GT430 card. Based on that wiki page (actually until reading this
thread) I thought I was buying a card capable of just about
everything. I'm just lucky that all the OTA 1080i content I pick up
here (the NY area stations) are all 29.997...no idea if I'd have
issues otherwise.

By the way: My card is small a small form factor, low profile card,
but it does in fact have a fan. However, especially compared to the
CPU fan noise I used to get with CPU based de-interlacing, my current
set up is essentially dead silent.

Tom
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bob at oblong

Jun 20, 2012, 6:21 PM

Post #24 of 30 (3854 views)
Permalink
Re: 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality) [In reply to]

Gary Buhrmaster wrote,

> The nVidia triad for Linux HTPC: Low-profile, fan-less, able to
> perform Advanced 2X de-interlacing for all content in 60Hz
> countries. Pick any two (well, that is slightly unfair, since
> there is other criteria such as HDMI audio, and the presumption
> that fan-less does not include cooling solutions such as
> water heat transfer, and you are not going to do SMT rework
> to change the card layout, etc.)

The other problem is that some silent (fanless) configurations have a
heatsink that takes up two slots. That makes it unsuitable if, for
example, you need all PCI slots for tuners.

I wonder if there are any models that have the extra bulk of the
heatsink on the rear side of the card? That typically may prevent a
PCIEx1 card on the other side from being used, though.

--
Bob Long
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gary.buhrmaster at gmail

Jun 20, 2012, 7:29 PM

Post #25 of 30 (3841 views)
Permalink
Re: 8400GS -> GT 430 -> ?? (60Hz, VDPAU High Quality) [In reply to]

On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 1:21 AM, Bob Long <bob [at] oblong> wrote:
....
> I wonder if there are any models that have the extra bulk of the heatsink on
> the rear side of the card? That typically may prevent a PCIEx1 card on the
> other side from being used, though.

I believe Sparkle had a couple of heat-pipe cards with the heatsink on the
back a few years ago. I do not know of any company doing that today.

Gary
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