Login | Register For Free | Help
Search for: (Advanced)

Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Users

Forced subtitles in mkv DVD rips.

 

 

MythTV users RSS feed   Index | Next | Previous | View Threaded


alex at alexfisher

May 16, 2012, 1:04 PM

Post #1 of 17 (5134 views)
Permalink
Forced subtitles in mkv DVD rips.

Hi

I've just started ripping all my DVDs to mkv files for mythvideo, but
I'm a bit confused as to how forced subtitles work/should work.

My current process is

1. DVD -> ISO using 'DVD Decrypter' on Windows.
2. ISO -> MKV using Makemkv. At this point, I select just the main
title and pick one main soundtrack (normally DTS if available
otherwise 5.1 Dolby Digital). I also leave in all the 'English'
subtitles.
3. Use mkvinfo to identify the subtitle track numbers, rip them with
mkvextract and use vobsub2pgm so that I can look through the subtitles
I left in in step 2.
4. Finally, use mkvmerge to remux the mkv removing all subtitle tracks
(main English subtitle track, commentary subtitles etc.) leaving just
any forced subtitle track (and setting the forced flag) I discovered
in step 3.

A bit long winded, but this should produce what I want and no more.

According to the change log, new to myth 0.25 is support for
automatically displaying the forced subtitles. This doesn't seem to
be working for me.
I only get the forced subtitles if I manually select the subtitle from
the OSD. In the OSD forced subtitles are enabled, but don't display
without manually selecting them.

Is the issue due to me having removed the normal English subtitle track?

Are there easy ways of identifying which subtitle track is the forced
one? Makemkv doesn't seem to tell me. Ripping all of them and
converting them to images before manually examining them is time
consuming.

Other than remuxing with mkvmerge, can anybody suggest an easier way
of changing the 'forced' flag on a mkv subtitle stream?

Many thanks for any help and suggestions.

Kind Regards,
Alex
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


jason at mcleods

May 17, 2012, 7:57 AM

Post #2 of 17 (5179 views)
Permalink
Re: Forced subtitles in mkv DVD rips. [In reply to]

On Wednesday, 16 May, 2012 at 4:04 PM, Alexander Fisher wrote:
> Hi
>
> I've just started ripping all my DVDs to mkv files for mythvideo, but
> I'm a bit confused as to how forced subtitles work/should work.
>
> My current process is
>
> 1. DVD -> ISO using 'DVD Decrypter' on Windows.
> 2. ISO -> MKV using Makemkv. At this point, I select just the main
> title and pick one main soundtrack (normally DTS if available
> otherwise 5.1 Dolby Digital). I also leave in all the 'English'
> subtitles.
> 3. Use mkvinfo to identify the subtitle track numbers, rip them with
> mkvextract and use vobsub2pgm so that I can look through the subtitles
> I left in in step 2.
> 4. Finally, use mkvmerge to remux the mkv removing all subtitle tracks
> (main English subtitle track, commentary subtitles etc.) leaving just
> any forced subtitle track (and setting the forced flag) I discovered
> in step 3.
>
> A bit long winded, but this should produce what I want and no more.
>
> According to the change log, new to myth 0.25 is support for
> automatically displaying the forced subtitles. This doesn't seem to
> be working for me.
> I only get the forced subtitles if I manually select the subtitle from
> the OSD. In the OSD forced subtitles are enabled, but don't display
> without manually selecting them.
>
> Is the issue due to me having removed the normal English subtitle track?
>
> Are there easy ways of identifying which subtitle track is the forced
> one? Makemkv doesn't seem to tell me. Ripping all of them and
> converting them to images before manually examining them is time
> consuming.
>
> Other than remuxing with mkvmerge, can anybody suggest an easier way
> of changing the 'forced' flag on a mkv subtitle stream?
>
> Many thanks for any help and suggestions.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Alex
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv (mailto:mythtv-users [at] mythtv)
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>


My understanding of Forced subtitles, are that they are shown when story line is being progressed in another language. Like the Russian parts in Hunt for Red October, before they zoom in and make everything English.

When I use Handbrake, I typically choose your same settings, but I select the English subtitles and choose Forced Only as an option. That way the subtitles only show up when they are supposed to. And it works fine for me when playing back in the frontend.

Hope that helps,

Jason


alex at alexfisher

May 17, 2012, 8:34 AM

Post #3 of 17 (5072 views)
Permalink
Re: Forced subtitles in mkv DVD rips. [In reply to]

On 17 May 2012 15:57, Jason McLeod <jason [at] mcleods> wrote:
> On Wednesday, 16 May, 2012 at 4:04 PM, Alexander Fisher wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> I've just started ripping all my DVDs to mkv files for mythvideo, but
> I'm a bit confused as to how forced subtitles work/should work.
>
> My current process is
>
> 1. DVD -> ISO using 'DVD Decrypter' on Windows.
> 2. ISO -> MKV using Makemkv. At this point, I select just the main
> title and pick one main soundtrack (normally DTS if available
> otherwise 5.1 Dolby Digital). I also leave in all the 'English'
> subtitles.
> 3. Use mkvinfo to identify the subtitle track numbers, rip them with
> mkvextract and use vobsub2pgm so that I can look through the subtitles
> I left in in step 2.
> 4. Finally, use mkvmerge to remux the mkv removing all subtitle tracks
> (main English subtitle track, commentary subtitles etc.) leaving just
> any forced subtitle track (and setting the forced flag) I discovered
> in step 3.
>
> A bit long winded, but this should produce what I want and no more.
>
> According to the change log, new to myth 0.25 is support for
> automatically displaying the forced subtitles. This doesn't seem to
> be working for me.
> I only get the forced subtitles if I manually select the subtitle from
> the OSD. In the OSD forced subtitles are enabled, but don't display
> without manually selecting them.
>
> Is the issue due to me having removed the normal English subtitle track?
>
> Are there easy ways of identifying which subtitle track is the forced
> one? Makemkv doesn't seem to tell me. Ripping all of them and
> converting them to images before manually examining them is time
> consuming.
>
> Other than remuxing with mkvmerge, can anybody suggest an easier way
> of changing the 'forced' flag on a mkv subtitle stream?
>
> Many thanks for any help and suggestions.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Alex
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
> My understanding of Forced subtitles, are that they are shown when story
> line is being progressed in another language.  Like the Russian parts in
> Hunt for Red October, before they zoom in and make everything English.

Yes. This is what I understand by forced subtitles too. Some films
are basically unwatchable without them.
Not being able to tell what the Na'vi are saying in Avatar, or missing
huge parts of Japanese dialogue in Kill Bill etc would ruin those
movies.
A significant minority of films have them even if they are just for
translating the odd line or foreign sign.

> When I use Handbrake, I typically choose your same settings, but I select
> the English subtitles and choose Forced Only as an option.  That way the
> subtitles only show up when they are supposed to.  And it works fine for me
> when playing back in the frontend.

I don't want to use handbrake as I'm only interested in preserving the
original dvd quality without any transcoding. Extracting to mkv
allows me to save some space by dropping foreign soundtracks,
directors commentaries etc, as well as removing any bonus
features/interviews/FBI warnings etc I never want to watch. My first
attempts at creating mkvs had me removing all subtitle tracks until I
realised I was throwing away the essential forced subtitle tracks too!
Now I've discovered what these are, I really want myth to play them
without me having to remember to select them each time.

One thing I'm not 100% sure on is, are DVD forced subtitles always
completely separate subtitle tracks? Or is it possible for just some
subtitles within part of a full subtitle track to be individually
flagged as forced? If so, I might have to rethink my approach
completely.

Either way, I still haven't been able to get my rip of 'The Mummy' to
automatically display the forced subtitle track. I've tried using
mkvpropedit to flag the relevant track as default as well as forced.
I've also tried including the main english subtitle track as well as
the forced track. Nothing's worked. Myth is definitely spotting the
fact that the track is marked as forced (in the OSD it displays
'forced' in brackets), but it still won't display it without me
manually enabling it. *If* I was willing to transcode my dvds, I
believe software is available that will hard code subtitle tracks into
the video stream, but this isn't a quality sacrifice I'm willing to
make.

Kind Regards,
Alex
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


stichnot at gmail

May 17, 2012, 9:13 AM

Post #4 of 17 (5008 views)
Permalink
Re: Forced subtitles in mkv DVD rips. [In reply to]

On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 8:34 AM, Alexander Fisher <alex [at] alexfisher> wrote:
> Either way, I still haven't been able to get my rip of 'The Mummy' to
> automatically display the forced subtitle track.  I've tried using
> mkvpropedit to flag the relevant track as default as well as forced.
> I've also tried including the main english subtitle track as well as
> the forced track.  Nothing's worked.  Myth is definitely spotting the
> fact that the track is marked as forced (in the OSD it displays
> 'forced' in brackets), but it still won't display it without me
> manually enabling it.  *If* I was willing to transcode my dvds, I
> believe software is available that will hard code subtitle tracks into
> the video stream, but this isn't a quality sacrifice I'm willing to
> make.

If you can open a ticket and include a pointer to a problematic
sample, I will take a look.

Jim
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


list-mythtv-users at jack

May 17, 2012, 9:21 AM

Post #5 of 17 (5007 views)
Permalink
Re: Forced subtitles in mkv DVD rips. [In reply to]

On Thu, 2012-05-17 at 16:34 +0100, Alexander Fisher wrote:
> Yes. This is what I understand by forced subtitles too. Some films
> are basically unwatchable without them.
> Not being able to tell what the Na'vi are saying in Avatar, or missing
> huge parts of Japanese dialogue in Kill Bill etc would ruin those
> movies.

I have a number of films ripped with forced subtitles and they work fine
for me. However, these are from Blu-Ray not DVD.

I have a similar work-flow to you except that I run the video through
handbrake to get the file-size down a little. I have found that this
leaves me with no subtitles, so I use mkvmerge to put them back in. The
big difference is that I do not play with any of the settings with
regards to forced or not forced in mkvmerge.

I have opened one such file up and mkvmerge does not claim that /any/ of
my subtitle tracks are forced (??!) yet the expected translation subs do
appear automatically when forced subs are enabled in mythvideo.

I took a look with mkvinfo and that doesn't mention anything about any
forced subs tracks either.

This is weird, yours doesn't work when it should and mine works when it
shouldn't.


I think I've just muddied the waters, sorry.

Jack

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


alex at alexfisher

May 17, 2012, 9:35 AM

Post #6 of 17 (5040 views)
Permalink
Re: Forced subtitles in mkv DVD rips. [In reply to]

On 17 May 2012 17:21, Jack <list-mythtv-users [at] jack> wrote:
> On Thu, 2012-05-17 at 16:34 +0100, Alexander Fisher wrote:
>> Yes.  This is what I understand by forced subtitles too.  Some films
>> are basically unwatchable without them.
>> Not being able to tell what the Na'vi are saying in Avatar, or missing
>> huge parts of Japanese dialogue in Kill Bill etc would ruin those
>> movies.
>
> I have a number of films ripped with forced subtitles and they work fine
> for me. However, these are from Blu-Ray not DVD.
>
> I have a similar work-flow to you except that I run the video through
> handbrake to get the file-size down a little. I have found that this
> leaves me with no subtitles, so I use mkvmerge to put them back in. The
> big difference is that I do not play with any of the settings with
> regards to forced or not forced in mkvmerge.
>
> I have opened one such file up and mkvmerge does not claim that /any/ of
> my subtitle tracks are forced (??!) yet the expected translation subs do
> appear automatically when forced subs are enabled in mythvideo.
>
> I took a look with mkvinfo and that doesn't mention anything about any
> forced subs tracks either.
>
> This is weird, yours doesn't work when it should and mine works when it
> shouldn't.
>
>
> I think I've just muddied the waters, sorry.

Perhaps maybe Blu-Ray subtitles can have individual subtitle items
forced whereas DVDs need an entire dedicated subtitle track?

Kind Regards,
Alex
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


alex at alexfisher

May 17, 2012, 4:50 PM

Post #7 of 17 (5028 views)
Permalink
Re: Forced subtitles in mkv DVD rips. [In reply to]

On 17 May 2012 17:13, Jim Stichnoth <stichnot [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 8:34 AM, Alexander Fisher <alex [at] alexfisher> wrote:
>> Either way, I still haven't been able to get my rip of 'The Mummy' to
>> automatically display the forced subtitle track.  I've tried using
>> mkvpropedit to flag the relevant track as default as well as forced.
>> I've also tried including the main english subtitle track as well as
>> the forced track.  Nothing's worked.  Myth is definitely spotting the
>> fact that the track is marked as forced (in the OSD it displays
>> 'forced' in brackets), but it still won't display it without me
>> manually enabling it.  *If* I was willing to transcode my dvds, I
>> believe software is available that will hard code subtitle tracks into
>> the video stream, but this isn't a quality sacrifice I'm willing to
>> make.
>
> If you can open a ticket and include a pointer to a problematic
> sample, I will take a look.

http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10735

Thanks,
Alex
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


stichnot at gmail

May 23, 2012, 9:14 AM

Post #8 of 17 (4952 views)
Permalink
Re: Forced subtitles in mkv DVD rips. [In reply to]

On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Alexander Fisher <alex [at] alexfisher> wrote:
> On 17 May 2012 17:13, Jim Stichnoth <stichnot [at] gmail> wrote:
>> On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 8:34 AM, Alexander Fisher <alex [at] alexfisher> wrote:
>>> Either way, I still haven't been able to get my rip of 'The Mummy' to
>>> automatically display the forced subtitle track.  I've tried using
>>> mkvpropedit to flag the relevant track as default as well as forced.
>>> I've also tried including the main english subtitle track as well as
>>> the forced track.  Nothing's worked.  Myth is definitely spotting the
>>> fact that the track is marked as forced (in the OSD it displays
>>> 'forced' in brackets), but it still won't display it without me
>>> manually enabling it.  *If* I was willing to transcode my dvds, I
>>> believe software is available that will hard code subtitle tracks into
>>> the video stream, but this isn't a quality sacrifice I'm willing to
>>> make.
>>
>> If you can open a ticket and include a pointer to a problematic
>> sample, I will take a look.
>
> http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10735

It turns out that an entire subtitle track can be marked as forced, or
an individual subtitle in the stream can be marked as forced. MythTV
was only honoring the forced flag on individual subtitles, though it
was making use of the track-level flag for OSD information. I don't
know much about MKV versus DVD, but it seems that some (all?) MKV
workflows are just setting the track-level flag.

I just pushed a fix to Master that makes Alex's sample work correctly.
If that holds up, I'll push it to 0.25-fixes in a few days.

Jim
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


alex at alexfisher

May 29, 2012, 7:47 AM

Post #9 of 17 (4914 views)
Permalink
Re: Forced subtitles in mkv DVD rips. [In reply to]

On 23 May 2012 17:14, Jim Stichnoth <stichnot [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Alexander Fisher <alex [at] alexfisher> wrote:
>> On 17 May 2012 17:13, Jim Stichnoth <stichnot [at] gmail> wrote:
>>> On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 8:34 AM, Alexander Fisher <alex [at] alexfisher> wrote:
>>>> Either way, I still haven't been able to get my rip of 'The Mummy' to
>>>> automatically display the forced subtitle track.  I've tried using
>>>> mkvpropedit to flag the relevant track as default as well as forced.
>>>> I've also tried including the main english subtitle track as well as
>>>> the forced track.  Nothing's worked.  Myth is definitely spotting the
>>>> fact that the track is marked as forced (in the OSD it displays
>>>> 'forced' in brackets), but it still won't display it without me
>>>> manually enabling it.  *If* I was willing to transcode my dvds, I
>>>> believe software is available that will hard code subtitle tracks into
>>>> the video stream, but this isn't a quality sacrifice I'm willing to
>>>> make.
>>>
>>> If you can open a ticket and include a pointer to a problematic
>>> sample, I will take a look.
>>
>> http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10735
>
> It turns out that an entire subtitle track can be marked as forced, or
> an individual subtitle in the stream can be marked as forced.  MythTV
> was only honoring the forced flag on individual subtitles, though it
> was making use of the track-level flag for OSD information.  I don't
> know much about MKV versus DVD, but it seems that some (all?) MKV
> workflows are just setting the track-level flag.
>
> I just pushed a fix to Master that makes Alex's sample work correctly.
>  If that holds up, I'll push it to 0.25-fixes in a few days.

Thanks for this Jim. It works great.
I'm still trying to come up with a both quick and fool proof way of
identifying which DVD ISO subtitle tracks are forced tracks and which
are just normal subtitle tracks.
If I'm understanding this correctly, you're saying that there's also a
third 'type'. An otherwise normal subtitle track with select
individual subtitles marked as forced?

On a related note, if I had chosen to not go down the mkv route, would
myth have automatically displayed the forced subtitles if I had played
the ripped ISO?

Thanks again,
Alex
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


stichnot at gmail

May 29, 2012, 2:22 PM

Post #10 of 17 (4906 views)
Permalink
Re: Forced subtitles in mkv DVD rips. [In reply to]

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 7:47 AM, Alexander Fisher <alex [at] alexfisher> wrote:
> On 23 May 2012 17:14, Jim Stichnoth <stichnot [at] gmail> wrote:
>> On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Alexander Fisher <alex [at] alexfisher> wrote:
>>> On 17 May 2012 17:13, Jim Stichnoth <stichnot [at] gmail> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 8:34 AM, Alexander Fisher <alex [at] alexfisher> wrote:
>>>>> Either way, I still haven't been able to get my rip of 'The Mummy' to
>>>>> automatically display the forced subtitle track.  I've tried using
>>>>> mkvpropedit to flag the relevant track as default as well as forced.
>>>>> I've also tried including the main english subtitle track as well as
>>>>> the forced track.  Nothing's worked.  Myth is definitely spotting the
>>>>> fact that the track is marked as forced (in the OSD it displays
>>>>> 'forced' in brackets), but it still won't display it without me
>>>>> manually enabling it.  *If* I was willing to transcode my dvds, I
>>>>> believe software is available that will hard code subtitle tracks into
>>>>> the video stream, but this isn't a quality sacrifice I'm willing to
>>>>> make.
>>>>
>>>> If you can open a ticket and include a pointer to a problematic
>>>> sample, I will take a look.
>>>
>>> http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10735
>>
>> It turns out that an entire subtitle track can be marked as forced, or
>> an individual subtitle in the stream can be marked as forced.  MythTV
>> was only honoring the forced flag on individual subtitles, though it
>> was making use of the track-level flag for OSD information.  I don't
>> know much about MKV versus DVD, but it seems that some (all?) MKV
>> workflows are just setting the track-level flag.
>>
>> I just pushed a fix to Master that makes Alex's sample work correctly.
>>  If that holds up, I'll push it to 0.25-fixes in a few days.
>
> Thanks for this Jim.  It works great.i
> I'm still trying to come up with a both quick and fool proof way of
> identifying which DVD ISO subtitle tracks are forced tracks and which
> are just normal subtitle tracks.
> If I'm understanding this correctly, you're saying that there's also a
> third 'type'.  An otherwise normal subtitle track with select
> individual subtitles marked as forced?

Sort of. There are "normal" subtitle tracks and "forced" subtitle
tracks, each of which consists of a stream of individual subtitles.
In addition, any given subtitle in the stream can be marked as forced.
At least, that is how it is structured in the ffmpeg code which we
use to decode the structure. In the sample you provided, the
individual subtitles were not marked as forced even though the track
was marked as forced. It's possible that this is explicitly allowed
in the DVD and/or MKV specs, and it's also possible that ffmpeg was
supposed to mark individual subtitles as forced but neglected to.

> On a related note, if I had chosen to not go down the mkv route, would
> myth have automatically displayed the forced subtitles if I had played
> the ripped ISO?

Most likely. But, it's still nice to have MythTV do the right thing
for mkv files.

Jim
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


alex at alexfisher

Jun 2, 2012, 3:52 AM

Post #11 of 17 (4859 views)
Permalink
Re: Forced subtitles in mkv DVD rips. [In reply to]

On 29 May 2012 22:22, Jim Stichnoth <stichnot [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 7:47 AM, Alexander Fisher <alex [at] alexfisher> wrote:
>> On 23 May 2012 17:14, Jim Stichnoth <stichnot [at] gmail> wrote:
>>> On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Alexander Fisher <alex [at] alexfisher> wrote:
>>>> On 17 May 2012 17:13, Jim Stichnoth <stichnot [at] gmail> wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 8:34 AM, Alexander Fisher <alex [at] alexfisher> wrote:
>>>>>> Either way, I still haven't been able to get my rip of 'The Mummy' to
>>>>>> automatically display the forced subtitle track.  I've tried using
>>>>>> mkvpropedit to flag the relevant track as default as well as forced.
>>>>>> I've also tried including the main english subtitle track as well as
>>>>>> the forced track.  Nothing's worked.  Myth is definitely spotting the
>>>>>> fact that the track is marked as forced (in the OSD it displays
>>>>>> 'forced' in brackets), but it still won't display it without me
>>>>>> manually enabling it.  *If* I was willing to transcode my dvds, I
>>>>>> believe software is available that will hard code subtitle tracks into
>>>>>> the video stream, but this isn't a quality sacrifice I'm willing to
>>>>>> make.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you can open a ticket and include a pointer to a problematic
>>>>> sample, I will take a look.
>>>>
>>>> http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10735
>>>
>>> It turns out that an entire subtitle track can be marked as forced, or
>>> an individual subtitle in the stream can be marked as forced.  MythTV
>>> was only honoring the forced flag on individual subtitles, though it
>>> was making use of the track-level flag for OSD information.  I don't
>>> know much about MKV versus DVD, but it seems that some (all?) MKV
>>> workflows are just setting the track-level flag.
>>>
>>> I just pushed a fix to Master that makes Alex's sample work correctly.
>>>  If that holds up, I'll push it to 0.25-fixes in a few days.
>>
>> Thanks for this Jim.  It works great.i
>> I'm still trying to come up with a both quick and fool proof way of
>> identifying which DVD ISO subtitle tracks are forced tracks and which
>> are just normal subtitle tracks.
>> If I'm understanding this correctly, you're saying that there's also a
>> third 'type'.  An otherwise normal subtitle track with select
>> individual subtitles marked as forced?
>
> Sort of.  There are "normal" subtitle tracks and "forced" subtitle
> tracks, each of which consists of a stream of individual subtitles.
> In addition, any given subtitle in the stream can be marked as forced.
>  At least, that is how it is structured in the ffmpeg code which we
> use to decode the structure.  In the sample you provided, the
> individual subtitles were not marked as forced even though the track
> was marked as forced.  It's possible that this is explicitly allowed
> in the DVD and/or MKV specs, and it's also possible that ffmpeg was
> supposed to mark individual subtitles as forced but neglected to.
>
>> On a related note, if I had chosen to not go down the mkv route, would
>> myth have automatically displayed the forced subtitles if I had played
>> the ripped ISO?
>
> Most likely.  But, it's still nice to have MythTV do the right thing
> for mkv files.
>

Hi Jim

Having played around a bit more, I'm not sure mythtv is still always
doing the right thing for mkvs.
I've got a mkv with four subtitle streams including one marked as
forced. These don't get automatically played.
Does mythtv look through all the subtitle streams to find forced
subtitles, or does it only look at the first one?

Thanks,
Alex
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


stichnot at gmail

Jun 3, 2012, 7:34 AM

Post #12 of 17 (4842 views)
Permalink
Re: Forced subtitles in mkv DVD rips. [In reply to]

On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 3:52 AM, Alexander Fisher <alex [at] alexfisher> wrote:
> Having played around a bit more, I'm not sure mythtv is still always
> doing the right thing for mkvs.
> I've got a mkv with four subtitle streams including one marked as
> forced.  These don't get automatically played.
> Does mythtv look through all the subtitle streams to find forced
> subtitles, or does it only look at the first one?

I can't say for sure without more digging, but I suspect myth is just
looking at the "preferred" subtitle track for forced subtitles (based
first on language preference and then on track number).

As usual, a new ticket with a small sample would be most helpful in
improving this. Ideally, one mkv sample and one more or less
equivalent DVD .iso sample.

One key question is how to combine user-selected subtitle tracks with
forced tracks. For example, suppose the user selects track 1, and
tracks 2 and 3 are marked as forced. Should all 3 subtitle tracks be
displayed simultaneously?

Jim
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


alex at alexfisher

Jun 6, 2012, 8:17 AM

Post #13 of 17 (4791 views)
Permalink
Re: Forced subtitles in mkv DVD rips. [In reply to]

On 3 June 2012 15:34, Jim Stichnoth <stichnot [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 3:52 AM, Alexander Fisher <alex [at] alexfisher> wrote:
>> Having played around a bit more, I'm not sure mythtv is still always
>> doing the right thing for mkvs.
>> I've got a mkv with four subtitle streams including one marked as
>> forced.  These don't get automatically played.
>> Does mythtv look through all the subtitle streams to find forced
>> subtitles, or does it only look at the first one?
>
> I can't say for sure without more digging, but I suspect myth is just
> looking at the "preferred" subtitle track for forced subtitles (based
> first on language preference and then on track number).
>
> As usual, a new ticket with a small sample would be most helpful in
> improving this.  Ideally, one mkv sample and one more or less
> equivalent DVD .iso sample.
>
> One key question is how to combine user-selected subtitle tracks with
> forced tracks.  For example, suppose the user selects track 1, and
> tracks 2 and 3 are marked as forced.  Should all 3 subtitle tracks be
> displayed simultaneously?

I've created a new ticket, with a 5 minute sample link. Ideally, I
would make available the original iso, but haven't due to copyright
issues and ADSL upload bandwidth.
http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10808

I think that if the user has selected a subtitle track, titles from
forced tracks should probably not be played as the same titles most
likely already exist on the selected track.
I'm not sure how realistic it is to try to define correct behaviour
for cases where an mkv has multiple same language tracks marked as
forced. Whilst I could create such an mkv as an academic exercise,
would any sensible DVD/Blu-Ray -> mkv workflow ever generate such a
beast?

Kind regards,
Alex
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


stichnot at gmail

Jun 7, 2012, 6:44 AM

Post #14 of 17 (4779 views)
Permalink
Re: Forced subtitles in mkv DVD rips. [In reply to]

On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Alexander Fisher <alex [at] alexfisher> wrote:
> I've created a new ticket, with a 5 minute sample link.  Ideally, I
> would make available the original iso, but haven't due to copyright
> issues and ADSL upload bandwidth.
> http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10808
>
> I think that if the user has selected a subtitle track, titles from
> forced tracks should probably not be played as the same titles most
> likely already exist on the selected track.
> I'm not sure how realistic it is to try to define correct behaviour
> for cases where an mkv has multiple same language tracks marked as
> forced.  Whilst I could create such an mkv as an academic exercise,
> would any sensible DVD/Blu-Ray -> mkv workflow ever generate such a
> beast?

Alex,

When I play the sample through mythfrontend and manually select
subtitle track 4 (which mythtv identifies in the menu as forced), I
don't see any subtitles at all. Whereas track 1 shows normal
subtitles, and tracks 2 and 3 show some kind of director's commentary.

The same thing happens when playing the file with vlc 1.1.11 under
Windows. Interestingly, vlc also does not auto-select track 4.

Are you seeing any subtitles on track 4?

Jim
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


alex at alexfisher

Jun 7, 2012, 6:56 AM

Post #15 of 17 (4778 views)
Permalink
Re: Forced subtitles in mkv DVD rips. [In reply to]

On 7 June 2012 14:44, Jim Stichnoth <stichnot [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Alexander Fisher <alex [at] alexfisher> wrote:
>> I've created a new ticket, with a 5 minute sample link.  Ideally, I
>> would make available the original iso, but haven't due to copyright
>> issues and ADSL upload bandwidth.
>> http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10808
>>
>> I think that if the user has selected a subtitle track, titles from
>> forced tracks should probably not be played as the same titles most
>> likely already exist on the selected track.
>> I'm not sure how realistic it is to try to define correct behaviour
>> for cases where an mkv has multiple same language tracks marked as
>> forced.  Whilst I could create such an mkv as an academic exercise,
>> would any sensible DVD/Blu-Ray -> mkv workflow ever generate such a
>> beast?
>
> Alex,
>
> When I play the sample through mythfrontend and manually select
> subtitle track 4 (which mythtv identifies in the menu as forced), I
> don't see any subtitles at all.  Whereas track 1 shows normal
> subtitles, and tracks 2 and 3 show some kind of director's commentary.
>
> The same thing happens when playing the file with vlc 1.1.11 under
> Windows.  Interestingly, vlc also does not auto-select track 4.
>
> Are you seeing any subtitles on track 4?
>

Sorry, I should have mentioned when in the clip I expect the subtitles occur.
About 3 minutes 10 seconds in, Bart has a 'conversation' with 'Santa's
Little Helper'.
Being a non-english speaker, Santa's Little Helper is subtitled. :)

Kind Regards,
Alex
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


stichnot at gmail

Jun 8, 2012, 6:15 AM

Post #16 of 17 (4739 views)
Permalink
Re: Forced subtitles in mkv DVD rips. [In reply to]

On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 6:56 AM, Alexander Fisher <alex [at] alexfisher> wrote:
> Sorry, I should have mentioned when in the clip I expect the subtitles occur.
> About 3 minutes 10 seconds in, Bart has a 'conversation' with 'Santa's
> Little Helper'.
> Being a non-english speaker, Santa's Little Helper is subtitled. :)

Ah, I should have been more patient.

Assuming this sample is representative, it seems the right behavior is
the following. When playback starts, if the user's DefaultCCMode
setting ("If enabled, captions will be displayed when playing back
recordings or watching Live TV.") is 0, and the AllowForcedSubtitles
setting (a "live setting" controlled through the playback OSD menu) is
1, then attempt to select a forced subtitle track. Since there may be
multiple forced subtitle tracks, use the same auto-selection criteria
that is used for regular subtitle tracks, i.e. take the user's
language preference into account.

Jim
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


stichnot at gmail

Jun 16, 2012, 7:45 PM

Post #17 of 17 (4671 views)
Permalink
Re: Forced subtitles in mkv DVD rips. [In reply to]

On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 6:56 AM, Alexander Fisher <alex [at] alexfisher> wrote:
> On 7 June 2012 14:44, Jim Stichnoth <stichnot [at] gmail> wrote:
>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Alexander Fisher <alex [at] alexfisher> wrote:
>>> I've created a new ticket, with a 5 minute sample link.  Ideally, I
>>> would make available the original iso, but haven't due to copyright
>>> issues and ADSL upload bandwidth.
>>> http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10808
>>>
>>> I think that if the user has selected a subtitle track, titles from
>>> forced tracks should probably not be played as the same titles most
>>> likely already exist on the selected track.
>>> I'm not sure how realistic it is to try to define correct behaviour
>>> for cases where an mkv has multiple same language tracks marked as
>>> forced.  Whilst I could create such an mkv as an academic exercise,
>>> would any sensible DVD/Blu-Ray -> mkv workflow ever generate such a
>>> beast?
>>
>> Alex,
>>
>> When I play the sample through mythfrontend and manually select
>> subtitle track 4 (which mythtv identifies in the menu as forced), I
>> don't see any subtitles at all.  Whereas track 1 shows normal
>> subtitles, and tracks 2 and 3 show some kind of director's commentary.
>>
>> The same thing happens when playing the file with vlc 1.1.11 under
>> Windows.  Interestingly, vlc also does not auto-select track 4.
>>
>> Are you seeing any subtitles on track 4?
>>
>
> Sorry, I should have mentioned when in the clip I expect the subtitles occur.
> About 3 minutes 10 seconds in, Bart has a 'conversation' with 'Santa's
> Little Helper'.
> Being a non-english speaker, Santa's Little Helper is subtitled. :)

This is now fixed in Master and 0.25-fixes. Hopefully the
implementation doesn't cause any surprises.

Jim
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

MythTV users RSS feed   Index | Next | Previous | View Threaded
 
 


Interested in having your list archived? Contact Gossamer Threads
 
  Web Applications & Managed Hosting Powered by Gossamer Threads Inc.