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What is being worked on for 0.26?

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adeffs.mythtv at gmail

May 29, 2012, 12:04 PM

Post #26 of 67 (765 views)
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Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 2:46 PM, digid myth <digidmyth [at] gmail> wrote:
> It seems we all use myth a little differently, which just goes to show how
> versatile the system is.
>
> So maybe the best solution is to have an option to pull data from both
> recordings and videos together for those that would like to see them
> together. In my case I do not think that would work well as we have our
> videos sorted in folders based on genre in most cases, so if you want to
> watch a western it's in the western folder. If you want to watch season 1 of
> dirty jobs it's in tv shows/dirty jobs/ season 1. It also makes it easyer
> for the kids to find something on their cinema tube boxes in their rooms. I
> have a script that builds links to what they can watch from the db based on
> ratings and share it via samba. In my case the live tv and recordings are
> not something the younger kids do not have access to.
>
> The point is we have each adapted myth to best fit our needs. So the use
> cases are going to be all over the place. The developers have given us
> great flexibility and a great system. I don't think any of us want to loose
> something we already have, which makes change even harder, and a lot more
> work for the developers. Look back at all the complaints about the changes
> in .25 myth music. Lots of people are not happy with that while others like
> the new system. For the record we use iTunes for music at our house as we
> are apple and iPhone users also.
>
> Bottom line is that we need to all be thankfully for what the developers
> have done, and we need to also let thm know how we use the system so they
> can make good choices in the direction the oft ware is going.
>
> I didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest, I was just voicing my opinion of
> how and why we like them separate at our house.
>
> Dale

from your previous email, it just sounds like a paradigm shift on your part.

there is no reason given in your previous email that the two could not
successfully be combined and not still be 100% usable by what you are
trying to do.

--
Steve
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User:Steveadeff
Before you ask, read the FAQ!
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Questions
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dekarl at spaetfruehstuecken

May 29, 2012, 1:21 PM

Post #27 of 67 (758 views)
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Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On 29.05.2012 21:02, Steven Adeff wrote:
> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 2:48 PM, Karl Dietz
> <dekarl [at] spaetfruehstuecken> wrote:
>> On 29.05.2012 16:15, Lindsay Mathieson wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:07:02 AM jedi wrote:
>>>>
>>>> For video compilations and concert videos, this would actually make
>>>> a certain amount of sense. Soundtracks could also be stored with the
>>>> movie they are from.
>>>>
>>>> The same performer appearing across different media types certainly
>>>> isn't
>>>> unheard of.
>>>
>>>
>>> Also, these are edge case - not general content. The vast majority of tv
>>> recordings don't have anywhere near the amount of meta info for what you
>>> describe to be possible.
>>
>>
>> which is why we want a community project with an sophisticated schema
>> and editing process, like musicbrainz but with tv data. Lets call it
>> tvbrainz :-)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Karl
>
> or, http://thetvdb.com/
> ?

sadly not.

from the top of my head:
* no names for seasons (some series have different title/subtitle
per season, e.g. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_Princess )
relevant for Anime, too. where the difference between different
seasons of one series and spin-offs appears to be fluid, see
http://forums.thetvdb.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=9890
* no aliases for episodes (e.g. Stargate Atlantis has different episode
titles depending on the broadcasting station, see

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Stargate-Atlantis-Episoden#Staffel_2
)
* no direct editing of good data. (you post a request to the forum on
tvdb vs. you edit directly and other editors vote on your edit)
* API doesn't allow searching for series alias name or episode name

IMHO its the best database that is available to us at the moment, but
I like the concepts behind musicbrainz a lot more.

Regards,
Karl
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krt at krt

May 29, 2012, 1:32 PM

Post #28 of 67 (761 views)
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Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On 29/05/12 23:44, Lindsay Mathieson wrote:
> Nope, as the earlier poster said - my TV recordings are ephemeral, filled with
> adverts which can't be auto detected (Australia) and massive amounts of
> pre/post padding (again Australia). I watch them once and delete, if I delete
> at all. There are thousands of them which will get aut deleted if I don't get
> round to watching them.

I don't have any trouble auto-detecting ads on 7-two, sbs-* and I don't
bother with ABC.
I would give it 95% plus against SBS. Something in Mythbusters gives it the
willies though.

The only show I ever record off 7-two (Seachange) it worked 100%

-kt

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linux at thehobsons

May 29, 2012, 2:02 PM

Post #29 of 67 (764 views)
Permalink

Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

digid myth wrote:
>It seems we all use myth a little differently

Not only that, but we also have different ideas of how it should work
(if that's not how we already use it).

>So maybe the best solution is to have an option to pull data from
>both recordings and videos together for those that would like to see
>them together. In my case I do not think that would work well as we
>have our videos sorted in folders based on genre in most cases, so
>if you want to watch a western it's in the western folder. If you
>want to watch season 1 of dirty jobs it's in tv shows/dirty jobs/
>season 1.

I think the idea to add tags would deal with a lot of what people are
asking for.
If you like music, video, and Tv to be separate things - then use
separate lists which only show items tagged as music, video, or TV.
If you like them together, then use a combined list. Tags would also
allow you to do a lot what you currently do with folders - plus allow
you to have multiple entries (so a westerns fan could have one list
with John Wayne films, and another for a specific subgenre or date
range (for example) which would include some of the same films.

>Bottom line is that we need to all be thankfully for what the
>developers have done, and we need to also let thm know how we use
>the system so they can make good choices in the direction the oft
>ware is going.

Indeed. There's a lot I don't use, even more I don't know how to use
fully. But I certainly don't want to go back to anything I've used
before.

--
Simon Hobson

Visit http://www.magpiesnestpublishing.co.uk/ for books by acclaimed
author Gladys Hobson. Novels - poetry - short stories - ideal as
Christmas stocking fillers. Some available as e-books.
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jyavenard at gmail

May 29, 2012, 4:59 PM

Post #30 of 67 (752 views)
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Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

Hi

On Tuesday, 29 May 2012, Lindsay Mathieson wrote:

> On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:34:31 AM Tom Lichti wrote:
> > I will rephrase my statement for clarity: "Video is video, regardless
> > of the source"
>
> Nope, as the earlier poster said - my TV recordings are ephemeral, filled
> with
> adverts which can't be auto detected (Australia) and massive amounts of
> pre/post padding (again Australia). I watch them once and delete, if I
> delete
> at all. There are thousands of them which will get aut deleted if I don't
> get
> round to watching them.
>
> OTOH, my videos are hand picked high quality, either ripped from my DVD's
> or
> brought and kept because I love them and watched over and over - not once
> offs
> (or zero offs) at all. Completely different from the mostly pop (but fun)
> dreck on TV. In no way do I want them merged together.
> --
>
>
This is exactly how I use mythtv.

The torc iPad app allows you to have a combined view. Which I first
thought: great, this is how it should be done... After using it for a
little while I found that I treat the content differently. My recordings
are ephemeral, I know 100% that I will not keep them. If there's a
recording I like, I will source a video from a DVD. And for TV series, they
are shows here so late that I would have sourced them from the US well in
advance.
It is also much easier for me to find content in split recordings/videos.

Having said that, I'd love for access to recordings to be redone. It's a
pain to find content that is only a few days old. It's such a pain, that if
it isn't watched within a week, it will probably never get watch

michael at thewatsonfamily

May 29, 2012, 5:13 PM

Post #31 of 67 (747 views)
Permalink

Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On 30/05/2012 9:59 AM, Jean-Yves Avenard wrote:
> Hi
>
> On Tuesday, 29 May 2012, Lindsay Mathieson wrote:
>
> On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:34:31 AM Tom Lichti wrote:
> > I will rephrase my statement for clarity: "Video is video,
> regardless
> > of the source"
>
> Nope, as the earlier poster said - my TV recordings are ephemeral,
> filled with
> adverts which can't be auto detected (Australia) and massive
> amounts of
> pre/post padding (again Australia). I watch them once and delete,
> if I delete
> at all. There are thousands of them which will get aut deleted if
> I don't get
> round to watching them.
>
> OTOH, my videos are hand picked high quality, either ripped from
> my DVD's or
> brought and kept because I love them and watched over and over -
> not once offs
> (or zero offs) at all. Completely different from the mostly pop
> (but fun)
> dreck on TV. In no way do I want them merged together.
> --
>
>
> This is exactly how I use mythtv.
>
> The torc iPad app allows you to have a combined view. Which I first
> thought: great, this is how it should be done... After using it for a
> little while I found that I treat the content differently. My
> recordings are ephemeral, I know 100% that I will not keep them. If
> there's a recording I like, I will source a video from a DVD. And for
> TV series, they are shows here so late that I would have sourced them
> from the US well in advance.
> It is also much easier for me to find content in split recordings/videos.
>
> Having said that, I'd love for access to recordings to be redone. It's
> a pain to find content that is only a few days old. It's such a pain,
> that if it isn't watched within a week, it will probably never get watch
>
I think it would be good if the "Watch Recordings" screen worked more
like the "Program Finder", with 1800+ recordings, it can be very time
consuming to scroll down/up to find the series you are looking for,
especially on a remote. I dont like the concept of merging videos with
recordings, as I think it will make it more difficult to find a specific
movie.

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dbadia at gmail

May 29, 2012, 6:09 PM

Post #32 of 67 (749 views)
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Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 9:15 AM, digid myth <digidmyth [at] gmail> wrote:

> I for one do not want to see Videos and recorded content merged. At our
> house the are two very distinct things. For one recorded programs are, to
> be deleted when watched, videos are not. Recorded programs expire, videos
> do not. The kids have access to videos based on rating. They do not have
> access to recorded programs. To us they are and should remain two different
> sections.
>
> Dale
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv

http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
I agree completely. In our house, videos consist of thousands of home
videos which are organized by date in a directory structure. Merging home
videos with recordings just doesn't make sense in our case.

I'm not against providing options, but we really need to maintain the
current option of keeping this recordings and videos separate.

Thanks
Dave

david.whyte at gmail

May 29, 2012, 7:59 PM

Post #33 of 67 (745 views)
Permalink

Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 11:15 PM, digid myth <digidmyth [at] gmail> wrote:
> I for one do not want to see Videos and recorded content merged. At our
> house the are two very distinct things. For one recorded programs are, to be
> deleted when watched, videos are not. Recorded programs expire, videos do
> not. The kids have access to videos based on rating. They do not have access
> to recorded programs. To us they are and should remain two different
> sections.
>

Note sure if we need another 'me too' in this thread but I am another
that likes the current separation between the presentation of videos
and recordings. That said, I think that the two could be merged down
in the guts of mythTV and we could utilise the 'tagging' feature that
Mike has mentioned to provide different 'views' of the media we are
storing.

All-in-all, I think the 'tagging' feature that has been discussed a
little is something that most excites me about upcoming mythTV
releases.

Cheers,
Whytey
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nospam312 at gmail

May 30, 2012, 1:09 PM

Post #34 of 67 (722 views)
Permalink

Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

I did not expect to open a can of worms.

This is my vision (or dream if you like) hopefully explained a bit better.

(Really simplifying now - I get it this would be a huge task)

When I originally suggested that Recordings and Videos are combined I
was thinking the Recordings could be tagged with "Recordings" and
Videos tagged with "Videos".

Videos and Recordings have very similar data and I suspect and with a
few differences here and there they have a very similar interface to
the user. This would allow Myth to be maintained and upgraded easier
and make the overall experience to the user simpler.

If we have this tagging system in the theme you could display a button
for a "listing" for tag "recordings". You could display a button for
a "listing" for tag "Videos". This could all be combined into a
screen where the tags to display would also be fully selectable also.
I would define a button for a "listing" for tag "Videos and
Recordings" giving me my combined listing. Nothing is lost but
everything is gained!

The options are infinite - I could have tags for "User1" and "User2".
I could then in a theme display a button for a "listing" for tags
"recordings and user2" and perhaps with a specific option of "locked"
which would mean the tags can't be changed meaning this install/user
of mythfrontend would only be able to see these specifically tagged
recordings and nothing else.

I could even go as far to say yes lets include music also. You can
play music, pause it, fast forward it, if you have a graphic equaliser
or other visualisation (cover art) it even has a visual aspect just
like a video - it is very similar to Videos/Recordings.

Other special tags could replace Storage Groups, Recording Groups and the rest.

A single screen that allows you to view tagged "stuff" (perhaps music
but currently that may be taking it too far) is a huge change but I
think if it is done correctly with the necessary display options it
would make MythTV out of this world!
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seven at seven

May 30, 2012, 2:53 PM

Post #35 of 67 (718 views)
Permalink

Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On 31 May 2012 06:09, nospam312 <nospam312 [at] gmail> wrote:

> I did not expect to open a can of worms.
>
> This is my vision (or dream if you like) hopefully explained a bit better.
>
> (Really simplifying now - I get it this would be a huge task)
>
> When I originally suggested that Recordings and Videos are combined I
> was thinking the Recordings could be tagged with "Recordings" and
> Videos tagged with "Videos".
>
> Videos and Recordings have very similar data and I suspect and with a
> few differences here and there they have a very similar interface to
> the user. This would allow Myth to be maintained and upgraded easier
> and make the overall experience to the user simpler.
>
> If we have this tagging system in the theme you could display a button
> for a "listing" for tag "recordings". You could display a button for
> a "listing" for tag "Videos". This could all be combined into a
> screen where the tags to display would also be fully selectable also.
> I would define a button for a "listing" for tag "Videos and
> Recordings" giving me my combined listing. Nothing is lost but
> everything is gained!
>
> The options are infinite - I could have tags for "User1" and "User2".
> I could then in a theme display a button for a "listing" for tags
> "recordings and user2" and perhaps with a specific option of "locked"
> which would mean the tags can't be changed meaning this install/user
> of mythfrontend would only be able to see these specifically tagged
> recordings and nothing else.
>
> I could even go as far to say yes lets include music also. You can
> play music, pause it, fast forward it, if you have a graphic equaliser
> or other visualisation (cover art) it even has a visual aspect just
> like a video - it is very similar to Videos/Recordings.
>
> Other special tags could replace Storage Groups, Recording Groups and the
> rest.
>
> A single screen that allows you to view tagged "stuff" (perhaps music
> but currently that may be taking it too far) is a huge change but I
> think if it is done correctly with the necessary display options it
> would make MythTV out of this world!
> _______________________________________________
>
>
My 2 cents and random thoughts,

Video Folder paths could also just be another tag, which would also allow
you to do the opposite with recordings to be displayed in videos in a
Recordings "Folder" which is read from the tag.

With music I always wanted the visualisation option to play music video if
available, music videos/Concerts for me are a grey area as are they aren't
really TV (Recording) nor a movie (Video) and actually fit better as music
and there really isn't a good source of metadata for music videos although
some concerts can be found in movie metadata....

Cheers,

Anthony

jedi at mishnet

May 30, 2012, 3:07 PM

Post #36 of 67 (719 views)
Permalink

Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 02:52:51PM +0000, Nasa wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > On 5/29/2012 09:34, Tom Lichti wrote:
> > > On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 9:31 AM, Lindsay Mathieson
> > > <lindsay.mathieson [at] gmail> wrote:
> > >> On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:26:19 AM Tom Lichti wrote:
> > >>> And I disagree 110%. Media is media, regardless of the source,
> > >>
> > >> So you want your music mixed in with your videos? its all media
> > >> after all
> > >
> > > Sure, why not? :)
> > >
> > > I will rephrase my statement for clarity: "Video is video,
> > > regardless
> > > of the source"
> >
> > You want video recordings from your camera mixed in recordings from
> > your
> > tuners?
>
> Yes -- title it appropriately...

Done already. I have a top level directory entry specifically dedicated
for this with a name tweaked to ensure that this directory always sorts at
the top of thee list of all video content.

Stuff has to go somewhere.

[deletia]
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jedi at mishnet

May 30, 2012, 3:11 PM

Post #37 of 67 (721 views)
Permalink

Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 11:21:47AM -0400, Raymond Wagner wrote:
> On 5/29/2012 10:15, Lindsay Mathieson wrote:
> >On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:07:02 AM jedi wrote:
> >> For video compilations and concert videos, this would actually make
> >>a certain amount of sense. Soundtracks could also be stored with the
> >>movie they are from.
> >>
> >> The same performer appearing across different media types certainly isn't
> >>unheard of.
> >
> >Also, these are edge case - not general content. The vast majority of tv
> >recordings don't have anywhere near the amount of meta info for what you
> >describe to be possible.
>
> Seems like the first step would be to petition Travis Bell to get
> soundtrack listings and other such related content into the TMDB
> database.

Or you could just search the music metadata already present.

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nick.rout at gmail

May 30, 2012, 4:55 PM

Post #38 of 67 (720 views)
Permalink

Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 8:09 AM, nospam312 <nospam312 [at] gmail> wrote:
> I did not expect to open a can of worms.

Clearly you must be new here LOL

(PS your vision is a good one and I believe Michael Dean is working on tags)
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mythtv at theseekerr

May 31, 2012, 3:47 AM

Post #39 of 67 (708 views)
Permalink

Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 6:09 AM, nospam312 <nospam312 [at] gmail> wrote:

> When I originally suggested that Recordings and Videos are combined I
> was thinking the Recordings could be tagged with "Recordings" and
> Videos tagged with "Videos".
>
> Videos and Recordings have very similar data and I suspect and with a
> few differences here and there they have a very similar interface to
> the user. This would allow Myth to be maintained and upgraded easier
> and make the overall experience to the user simpler.
>

You see, that's the thing. They don't.

TV is, for now, primarily chronological. People watch it and discuss it for
a few days after it airs. Most television is disposable rubbish.

My videos are different. Everything in my videos library is something I
like, and they exist in a timeless void. Where I like my television in a
simple chronological list, I want to browse my videos as a gallery.

If, at some point in the far future, everything on television is broadcast
on time and can be watched without ads, I might find mixing the content
useful on a series-by-series basis. But right now, the metadata associated
with my recordings is, at best, a guide. Most of my recorded episodes of,
for instance, Castle are caught up in awkwardly named double episodes.
Thanks to the stupidity of Australian TV networks, the first 20 minutes is
likely to be overflow from some stupid reality show. Much of the time, the
ending has spilled onto the next show scheduled on that channel. If they
were interspersed with the clean episodes from my DVD's, it would drive me
insane.

- Chris

linux at thehobsons

May 31, 2012, 4:24 AM

Post #40 of 67 (706 views)
Permalink

Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

Christopher Kerr wrote:

>Videos and Recordings have very similar data and I suspect and with a
>few differences here and there they have a very similar interface to
>the user. This would allow Myth to be maintained and upgraded easier
>and make the overall experience to the user simpler.
>
>
>You see, that's the thing. They don't.
>
>TV is, for now, primarily chronological. People watch it and discuss
>it for a few days after it airs. Most television is disposable
>rubbish.
>
>My videos are different. Everything in my videos library is
>something I like, and they exist in a timeless void. Where I like my
>television in a simple chronological list, I want to browse my
>videos as a gallery.

But that's a somewhat arbitrary division.

Essentially, what you are saying is that if it came from TV then it
should be ditched after watching once, if it came on a DVD then it's
kept. OK, so what about stuff that can come on either ? What about
stuff you kept on TV, but then had to start getting on DVD ?

Earlier, someone asked "why would you want all your home videos mixed
up with TV ?", to which the corollary is "why would you want your
home video mixed up with TV series ?"

In other words, what's the primary difference between a series you
recorded on TV and kept, and the same thing bought on DVD ?

What I'm getting at is that some of the distinctions are arbitrary
and a matter of personal preference. I have a number of "subjects"
where part of a selection came from TV and part came on DVD.
Logically it makes sense to treat them as "one collection".

Yes there are differences in some of the details, but I see nothing
wrong with bringing TV and video closer. An episode of (for example)
"Morse" is an episode of Morse whether it was recorded off air or
bought on DVD. So the core data is the same. There are differences,
but I can't think of anything that should be insurmountable.

If tags gets implemented as it's been suggested, then those that want
TV and video to be different can filter accordingly - nothing will
appear to change and you'll be happy. Those that want to merge them
will be able to do so - and they'll be happy.
That's a key thing. If you want to keep TV and Video separate, then
merging and tagging should not prevent you doing that. If it's done
well, then you might not even notice there's been a change.

Many people will want different things at different times. That
should be easy too as long as the theme designers provide easy ways
to switch views. I'd imagine that "TV" will still be "TV" on the menu
but internally will be "media tagged as TV", and "Video" will still
be "Video" on the menu but internally will be "media tagged as Video".

I think the future could be good. Instead of navigating to TV, Video,
or Music and then to the track you want within that - you could
navigate to "media" and select the artist/genre and then decide what
track/album to watch. So I could listen to tracks I have on CD, DVD,
or TV in one session - instead of having to pop in and out of
different modes (model interfaces are so 1970's) to access them.

>Thanks to the stupidity of Australian TV networks, the first 20
>minutes is likely to be overflow from some stupid reality show. Much
>of the time, the ending has spilled onto the next show scheduled on
>that channel.

That's not unique to your networks :( A few minutes setting up
lossless transcode would allow you to cut the crap and just keep what
you want.

--
Simon Hobson

Visit http://www.magpiesnestpublishing.co.uk/ for books by acclaimed
author Gladys Hobson. Novels - poetry - short stories - ideal as
Christmas stocking fillers. Some available as e-books.
_______________________________________________
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nasa01 at comcast

May 31, 2012, 4:32 AM

Post #41 of 67 (703 views)
Permalink

Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

----- Original Message -----
> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 6:09 AM, nospam312 < nospam312 [at] gmail >
> wrote:
>
>
> When I originally suggested that Recordings and Videos are combined I
> was thinking the Recordings could be tagged with "Recordings" and
> Videos tagged with "Videos".
>
> Videos and Recordings have very similar data and I suspect and with a
> few differences here and there they have a very similar interface to
> the user. Â This would allow Myth to be maintained and upgraded easier
> and make the overall experience to the user simpler.
>
>
>
> You see, that's the thing. They don't.
>
>
> TV is, for now, primarily chronological. People watch it and discuss
> it for a few days after it airs. Most television is disposable
> rubbish.
>
>
> My videos are different. Everything in my videos library is something
> I like, and they exist in a timeless void. Where I like my television
> in a simple chronological list, I want to browse my videos as a
> gallery.
>
>
> If, at some point in the far future, everything on television is
> broadcast on time and can be watched without ads, I might find mixing
> the content useful on a series-by-series basis. But right now, the
> metadata associated with my recordings is, at best, a guide. Most of
> my recorded episodes of, for instance, Castle are caught up in
> awkwardly named double episodes. Thanks to the stupidity of Australian
> TV networks, the first 20 minutes is likely to be overflow from some
> stupid reality show. Much of the time, the ending has spilled onto the
> next show scheduled on that channel. If they were interspersed with
> the clean episodes from my DVD's, it would drive me insane.
>
>
> - Chris

So, just to add a couple more of my pennies into the pool -- I hate
having to switch between views to see a TV series. take "Burn Notice"
for example - I have 2 seasons on DVD and a bunch recorded, When I should
want to watch (or my someone else visiting) some of the series, they(I)
don't really care how it was stored on my server -- they(I) just want to
see the next episode. And when I am trying to "fill-in" missed episodes,
I really don't need the ones I have recorded, re-recorded. A unified
scheme would fit me better... But as said before, and I totally agree
with - I'll take what the nice developers give me, and be happy with it.

Nasa

> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
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lindsay.mathieson at gmail

May 31, 2012, 4:32 AM

Post #42 of 67 (704 views)
Permalink

Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Thu, 31 May 2012 12:24:14 PM Simon Hobson wrote:
> In other words, what's the primary difference between a series you
> recorded on TV and kept, and the same thing bought on DVD ?

And there's the key difference right there, which you will fully fail to see.
You *brought* the DVD because you want to keep it. The TV was recorded because
there was no cost, monetary or otherwise.

Also the DVD is much better quality, has no adverts, no padding. It has
extras. These things matter and place it in a different classification.

--
Lindsay

Attachments:

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nasa01 at comcast

May 31, 2012, 5:09 AM

Post #43 of 67 (703 views)
Permalink

Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

----- Original Message -----
> On Thu, 31 May 2012 12:24:14 PM Simon Hobson wrote:
> > In other words, what's the primary difference between a series you
> > recorded on TV and kept, and the same thing bought on DVD ?
>
> And there's the key difference right there, which you will fully fail
> to see.
> You *brought* the DVD because you want to keep it. The TV was recorded
> because
> there was no cost, monetary or otherwise.
>
> Also the DVD is much better quality, has no adverts, no padding. It
> has
> extras. These things matter and place it in a different
> classification.

The DVD is not necessarly better quality - depends on how you are getting
your TV and how things are recorded on the DVD. I wouldn't go in making
that assumption (Blu-Ray being a different argument). And I don't care
about extras. I get DVD because I want the episodes. And there is a cost
to recording TV (space && electricity comes to mind).

Nasa

>
> --
> Lindsay
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
_______________________________________________
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linux at thehobsons

May 31, 2012, 5:56 AM

Post #44 of 67 (702 views)
Permalink

Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

Lindsay Mathieson wrote:

>And there's the key difference right there, which you will fully fail to see.
>You *brought* the DVD because you want to keep it. The TV was recorded because
>there was no cost, monetary or otherwise.
>
>Also the DVD is much better quality, has no adverts, no padding. It has
>extras. These things matter and place it in a different classification.

You assume too much about what I think. That may be how you treat it,
but that's not how I see it.

On digital, the broadcast quality is quite adequate - to be honest,
there's not a lot of difference between an SD DVD and SD Freeview (at
least for the BBC channels where they use a decent bitrate). Also, on
the non-commercial channels there aren't any in-program adverts.

In some cases I've bought DVDs simply because it's more convenient
than collecting the TV broadcasts and transferring them - not to
mention, I tend to buy them when I see them on offer, definitely not
at full price. So many of my DVDs have been bought for the
'convenience factor' rather than any quality difference.

And of course, there is the assumption that everything on TV is also
available on DVD.

--
Simon Hobson

Visit http://www.magpiesnestpublishing.co.uk/ for books by acclaimed
author Gladys Hobson. Novels - poetry - short stories - ideal as
Christmas stocking fillers. Some available as e-books.
_______________________________________________
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linux at thehobsons

May 31, 2012, 6:19 AM

Post #45 of 67 (699 views)
Permalink

Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

What I think some people are missing is that no-one is suggesting
that anyone *has* to change from how they work now. If anyone wants
to keep TV and video separate then they will be able to do so - and
I'd expect the default for the later system to look just like the
system does now.

So for all those "I don't want to work that way" people - you won't
have to. If the suggestion ever makes it into reality, then for those
that do want to, they will have the option.

--
Simon Hobson

Visit http://www.magpiesnestpublishing.co.uk/ for books by acclaimed
author Gladys Hobson. Novels - poetry - short stories - ideal as
Christmas stocking fillers. Some available as e-books.
_______________________________________________
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gnassas at mac

May 31, 2012, 6:28 AM

Post #46 of 67 (703 views)
Permalink

Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On 2012-05-29, at 7:59 PM, Jean-Yves Avenard wrote:

> The torc iPad app allows you to have a combined view. Which I first thought: great, this is how it should be done... After using it for a little while I found that I treat the content differently. My recordings are ephemeral, I know 100% that I will not keep them. If there's a recording I like, I will source a video from a DVD. And for TV series, they are shows here so late that I would have sourced them from the US well in advance.
> It is also much easier for me to find content in split recordings/videos.

+1 to that. Conspicuously absent here is the sponsor of this merging notion. Could you speak up and say what would be gained and why a union query would suffice etc.

It would be a shame to repeat the UI business where good features got tossed, so-so ones were promoted, and there were bad vibes all around.

- George

mythtv-users at lists

May 31, 2012, 6:41 AM

Post #47 of 67 (697 views)
Permalink

Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

Simon Hobson wrote:
> Christopher Kerr wrote:
>>
>> My videos are different. Everything in my videos library is something
>> I like, and they exist in a timeless void. Where I like my television
>> in a simple chronological list, I want to browse my videos as a gallery.
>
> But that's a somewhat arbitrary division.
>
> Essentially, what you are saying is that if it came from TV then it
> should be ditched after watching once, if it came on a DVD then it's
> kept. OK, so what about stuff that can come on either ? What about stuff
> you kept on TV, but then had to start getting on DVD ?

You don't get it. If one wants to keep a TV show, then one has already a
userjob set up, which converts it and puts it in mythvideo. Mythvideo
acts as an archive for me and most people from what I read here. There's
a reason why there is no auto expire in mythvideo.

I don't see the point in mixing the two because of maybe 5% or less of
my recordings I want to keep too.

If you want to have your recordings in mythvideo, you can already do it
right now. Just use mythlink.pl to create the links inside your video
folder and everybody is happy.
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linux at thehobsons

May 31, 2012, 7:14 AM

Post #48 of 67 (697 views)
Permalink

Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

Thomas Boehm wrote:

>If one wants to keep a TV show, then one has already a
>userjob set up, which converts it and puts it in mythvideo.

Keeping all the metadata ?

But actually, no I don't already have a job setup for that - one of
many things I haven't got round to doing.

--
Simon Hobson

Visit http://www.magpiesnestpublishing.co.uk/ for books by acclaimed
author Gladys Hobson. Novels - poetry - short stories - ideal as
Christmas stocking fillers. Some available as e-books.
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

tom at redpepperracing

May 31, 2012, 7:27 AM

Post #49 of 67 (699 views)
Permalink

Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Thomas Boehm
<mythtv-users [at] lists> wrote:
> Simon Hobson wrote:
>> Christopher Kerr wrote:
>>>
>>> My videos are different. Everything in my videos library is something
>>> I like, and they exist in a timeless void. Where I like my television
>>> in a simple chronological list, I want to browse my videos as a gallery.
>>
>> But that's a somewhat arbitrary division.
>>
>> Essentially, what you are saying is that if it came from TV then it
>> should be ditched after watching once, if it came on a DVD then it's
>> kept. OK, so what about stuff that can come on either ? What about stuff
>> you kept on TV, but then had to start getting on DVD ?
>
> You don't get it. If one wants to keep a TV show, then one has already a
> userjob set up, which converts it and puts it in mythvideo. Mythvideo
> acts as an archive for me and most people from what I read here. There's
> a reason why there is no auto expire in mythvideo.
>
> I don't see the point in mixing the two because of maybe 5% or less of
> my recordings I want to keep too.
>
> If you want to have your recordings in mythvideo, you can already do it
> right now. Just use mythlink.pl to create the links inside your video
> folder and everybody is happy.

No, you don't get it, I was not happy with that solution. We hate the
interface to Videos, so I have hacked a system that makes Videos show
up in the Recordings screen, as it's more intuitive to use, and better
organized for our usage, and works well enough, with the occasional
manual tweaking required.

For our use case, this works. For your use case, it doesn't work. Your
use case isn't superior to mine, nor is mine to yours, just different,
I don't get why I need to be forced to use your scenario, especially
if there is a potential solution that can fit both use cases.

Again, I'm not sure why we are arguing about this, and why people have
such a vehement opinion about it, nothing has been changed, and
nothing has even formally been proposed, other than an idea floated by
Michael Dean. I'm sure he's chuckling away somewhere... :)

Tom
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jedi at mishnet

May 31, 2012, 7:58 AM

Post #50 of 67 (696 views)
Permalink

Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 08:47:36PM +1000, Christopher Kerr wrote:
> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 6:09 AM, nospam312 <nospam312 [at] gmail> wrote:
>
> > When I originally suggested that Recordings and Videos are combined I
> > was thinking the Recordings could be tagged with "Recordings" and
> > Videos tagged with "Videos".
> >
> > Videos and Recordings have very similar data and I suspect and with a
> > few differences here and there they have a very similar interface to
> > the user. This would allow Myth to be maintained and upgraded easier
> > and make the overall experience to the user simpler.
> >
>
> You see, that's the thing. They don't.
>
> TV is, for now, primarily chronological. People watch it and discuss it for
> a few days after it airs. Most television is disposable rubbish.
>
> My videos are different. Everything in my videos library is something I
> like, and they exist in a timeless void. Where I like my television in a
> simple chronological list, I want to browse my videos as a gallery.

Plenty of non-disposable video is chronological.

That's whyy I have advocated the "cursor" concept for mythvideo forquite
some time. Keep track of where you are in a TV series or Movie collection
and automatically be directed to the current or next item when you visit it
again.

>
> If, at some point in the far future, everything on television is broadcast
> on time and can be watched without ads, I might find mixing the content
> useful on a series-by-series basis. But right now, the metadata associated
> with my recordings is, at best, a guide. Most of my recorded episodes of,
> for instance, Castle are caught up in awkwardly named double episodes.
> Thanks to the stupidity of Australian TV networks, the first 20 minutes is
> likely to be overflow from some stupid reality show. Much of the time, the
> ending has spilled onto the next show scheduled on that channel. If they
> were interspersed with the clean episodes from my DVD's, it would drive me
> insane.

Alternately, MythTV could tell you that the thing you are trying to watch
from the recordings is a already in your DVD archive othat the next thing
after what youu watched from your DVD archive is sitting in the recordings.
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