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Is SeriesID field of program used for anything?

 

 

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lexvictory at yahoo

May 22, 2012, 1:08 AM

Post #1 of 8 (1201 views)
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Is SeriesID field of program used for anything?

I'm messing with a custom made XMLTV grabber, and was wondering if the seriesid column in the program table is used for anything?

Currently I've patched my mythfilldatabase to use the seriesid when present in the xml (set to a CRID from the data source).

I want to know if I can play with the seriesid field so that it would be different for all titles, even of the same series - e.g. seriesid="crid://something/series_crid/program_crid"

The reason I want to do this is so that duplicate matching using the generated programid works across networks (sometimes different crids are used by the same network, for series with season/episode info I let mythfilldatabase generate an EPxxxxx id for duplicate matching).
I currently use a slightly modified version of http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10101 and fall back to title matching for season/episode info programs, which doesnt work well with double showings; hence wanting to be able to match a crid regardless.


Hope that made sense.
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mtdean at thirdcontact

May 22, 2012, 4:26 AM

Post #2 of 8 (1132 views)
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Re: Is SeriesID field of program used for anything? [In reply to]

On 05/22/2012 04:08 AM, Xander wrote:
> I'm messing with a custom made XMLTV grabber, and was wondering if the seriesid column in the program table is used for anything?

The seriesid is automatically generated using an ELF hash of the title
when importing XMLTV data. It must be a unique value for a given title,
or--if possible--unique for a given series.

Note that it's generally not used for scheduling, though, because it
actually does more harm than good. Matching on the title will always
record wanted episodes, even if it records some extra, unrelated shows
with the same title. Matching solely on seriesid would mean that you'd
get the episodes of the series M*A*S*H, but you wouldn't get the movie
M*A*S*H (which is, in fact, related, though it's a completely different
seriesid; however, most users who want to record every episode of
M*A*S*H would also like to get the movies).

> Currently I've patched my mythfilldatabase to use the seriesid when present in the xml (set to a CRID from the data source).
>
> I want to know if I can play with the seriesid field so that it would be different for all titles, even of the same series - e.g. seriesid="crid://something/series_crid/program_crid"
>
> The reason I want to do this is so that duplicate matching using the generated programid works across networks

Note that seriesid is not used for duplicate matching. Instead
programid is used. See http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Duplicate_matching

> (sometimes different crids are used by the same network, for series with season/episode info I let mythfilldatabase generate an EPxxxxx id for duplicate matching).

That's a programid, not a series id. Granted, for XMLTV data, the
programid is based on seriesid and season and episode information.

> I currently use a slightly modified version of http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10101 and fall back to title matching for season/episode info programs, which doesnt work well with double showings; hence wanting to be able to match a crid regardless.
>
>
> Hope that made sense.

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to do, but chances are the
following will help answer your question (or at least get you started
down the path to finding the right answer):

The programid is used for duplicate matching and is considered a unique
identifier of episodes.

For XMLTV users, a programid is created by concatenating a category-type
indicator with seriesid and season and episode information, only when
both season and episode numbers are specified. When either or both
season number and episode number are missing, no programid is generated
for the given showing (in which case, duplicate matching will be
performed using the user-specified duplicate-matching method).

For EIT users, the programid and seriesid are specified by the EIT data
and may have default_authority prepended.

For Schedules Direct users, the programid and seriesid are specified by
the DataDirect data.

(You should probably also see EITFixUp::AddDVBEITAuthority().)

Mike
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lexvictory at yahoo

May 22, 2012, 5:16 AM

Post #3 of 8 (1124 views)
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Re: Is SeriesID field of program used for anything? [In reply to]

> The seriesid is automatically generated using an ELF hash of the title
> when importing XMLTV data. It must be a unique value for a given
> title, or--if possible--unique for a given series.
This is my current situation - the guide data (Australian Freeview)
supplies a series CRID (much the same as the UK), my grabber sends this
to mythtv in the xml, mythfilfilldatabase uses it with the patch i made
for it. (I'm still on 0.24 btw)

>
> Note that it's generally not used for scheduling
This is mainly what I wanted to know; does ANYTHING else use the value?

> Note that seriesid is not used for duplicate matching. Instead
> programid is used. See http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Duplicate_matching
Sorry if I confused, I know that programid is used for that.

Currently, if NO season/episode info is available (and it's not a
movie), my grabber outputs <episode-num
system="dd_progid">crid://whatever_network_said</episode-num> - thus
removing to issue of them having none generated by mythfilldatabase
Conversely if there IS season/episode info that it finds and outputs,
the dd_progid element is left out, leaving mythfilldatabase to generate
the hashed one.

The patch I referenced enables mythtv to extend recording time based on
the current/following info in EIT.
It works well enough as is, however it must fall back to title (without
subtitle) matching for episodes with season/episode info (and therefore
a mythfilldatabase generated programid). This means that e.g. with
double episodes of The Simpsons, the first episode's recording keeps
recording until the 2nd ends; THIS is what I want to fix.

I want to know if it is safe for me to change the seriesID that programs
get from "crid://network/networks_series_id" to
"crid://network/networks_series_id/networks_program_id" so that the EIT
current/following patch always has both IDs to work with.
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mtdean at thirdcontact

May 22, 2012, 8:32 AM

Post #4 of 8 (1114 views)
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Re: Is SeriesID field of program used for anything? [In reply to]

On 05/22/2012 08:16 AM, Xander Victory wrote:
>
>> The seriesid is automatically generated using an ELF hash of the
>> title when importing XMLTV data. It must be a unique value for a
>> given title, or--if possible--unique for a given series.
> This is my current situation - the guide data (Australian Freeview)
> supplies a series CRID (much the same as the UK), my grabber sends
> this to mythtv in the xml, mythfilfilldatabase uses it with the patch
> i made for it. (I'm still on 0.24 btw)
>
>>
>> Note that it's generally not used for scheduling
> This is mainly what I wanted to know; does ANYTHING else use the value?
>
>> Note that seriesid is not used for duplicate matching. Instead
>> programid is used. See http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Duplicate_matching
> Sorry if I confused, I know that programid is used for that.
>
> Currently, if NO season/episode info is available (and it's not a
> movie), my grabber outputs <episode-num
> system="dd_progid">crid://whatever_network_said</episode-num> - thus
> removing to issue of them having none generated by mythfilldatabase
> Conversely if there IS season/episode info that it finds and outputs,
> the dd_progid element is left out, leaving mythfilldatabase to
> generate the hashed one.
>
> The patch I referenced enables mythtv to extend recording time based
> on the current/following info in EIT.
> It works well enough as is, however it must fall back to title
> (without subtitle) matching for episodes with season/episode info (and
> therefore a mythfilldatabase generated programid). This means that
> e.g. with double episodes of The Simpsons, the first episode's
> recording keeps recording until the 2nd ends; THIS is what I want to fix.
>
> I want to know if it is safe for me to change the seriesID that
> programs get from "crid://network/networks_series_id" to
> "crid://network/networks_series_id/networks_program_id" so that the
> EIT current/following patch always has both IDs to work with.

OK, it sounds like you need the more-detailed answer than the "generally
not used" I mentioned before. With 0.25+, seriesid may be used in
non-custom recording rules, as explained at
https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/02f646ac . (And thanks to David
Engel for looking up the commit.)

So, changing seriesid to have different values for different showings of
the same series would actually break things for some users.

Can you use programid directly, rather than embedding it in the
seriesid, to tell the 2 episodes apart?

Mike
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lexvictory at yahoo

May 22, 2012, 6:24 PM

Post #5 of 8 (1113 views)
Permalink
Re: Is SeriesID field of program used for anything? [In reply to]

--- On Wed, 23/5/12, Michael T. Dean <mtdean [at] thirdcontact> wrote:

> From: Michael T. Dean <mtdean [at] thirdcontact>
> Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Is SeriesID field of program used for anything?
> To: "Discussion about MythTV" <mythtv-users [at] mythtv>
> Received: Wednesday, 23 May, 2012, 1:32 AM
> On 05/22/2012 08:16 AM, Xander
> Victory wrote:
> >
> >> The seriesid is automatically generated using an
> ELF hash of the title when importing XMLTV data.  It
> must be a unique value for a given title, or--if
> possible--unique for a given series.
> > This is my current situation - the guide data
> (Australian Freeview) supplies a series CRID (much the same
> as the UK), my grabber sends this to mythtv in the xml,
> mythfilfilldatabase uses it with the patch i made for it.
> (I'm still on 0.24 btw)
> >
> >>
> >> Note that it's generally not used for scheduling
> > This is mainly what I wanted to know; does ANYTHING
> else use the value?
> >
> >> Note that seriesid is not used for duplicate
> matching.  Instead programid is used.  See 
> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Duplicate_matching
> > Sorry if I confused, I know that programid is used for
> that.
> >
> > Currently, if NO season/episode info is available (and
> it's not a movie), my grabber outputs <episode-num
> system="dd_progid">crid://whatever_network_said</episode-num>
> - thus removing to issue of them having none generated by
> mythfilldatabase
> > Conversely if there IS season/episode info that it
> finds and outputs, the dd_progid element is left out,
> leaving mythfilldatabase to generate the hashed one.
> >
> > The patch I referenced enables mythtv to extend
> recording time based on the current/following info in EIT.
> > It works well enough as is, however it must fall back
> to title (without subtitle) matching for episodes with
> season/episode info (and therefore a mythfilldatabase
> generated programid). This means that e.g. with double
> episodes of The Simpsons, the first episode's recording
> keeps recording until the 2nd ends; THIS is what I want to
> fix.
> >
> > I want to know if it is safe for me to change the
> seriesID that programs get from
> "crid://network/networks_series_id" to
> "crid://network/networks_series_id/networks_program_id" so
> that the EIT current/following patch always has both IDs to
> work with.
>
> OK, it sounds like you need the more-detailed answer than
> the "generally not used" I mentioned before.  With
> 0.25+, seriesid may be used in non-custom recording rules,
> as explained at https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/02f646ac
> .  (And thanks to David Engel for looking up the
> commit.)
>
> So, changing seriesid to have different values for different
> showings of the same series would actually break things for
> some users.
Only had a chance to quickly look at the commit this morning, and don't completely understand what breaks with series IDs - also it may end up partially broken anyway in the current situation; the same series is sometimes supplied a different seriesid by the networks (seemingly for repeats, different seasons, etc).
If there are different SeriesIDs, will it break recording rules other than the "this series" filter/rule?

> Can you use programid directly, rather than embedding it in
> the seriesid, to tell the 2 episodes apart?
I had hoped to be able to do this based on "The scheduler now falls back to
title/subtitle/description checking if two programs have non-empty
programids from different authorities." in the commit message.
However from what sense I can make of the code, this appears to strip the authority and match on the last part of the ID?
Or did I miss something? - the SQL is a bit hard to decipher right now at work

Perhaps I should be appending a hashed ProgramID to the one I output?
e.g. crid://network/networks_crid/myth_style_hashed_id

Matching on subtitle and description would possibly also lead to false negatives anyway - the networks here like to have subtitles that differ in spelling etc. There would need to be matching on the season/episode info too. (it is also feasible that there would be programs with season/episode info but no subtitle)

With some of the changes needing to be made I was thinking of possibly making a fork/branch on github when I make it public to contain the needed Aussie specific patches (EIT cur/fol, seriesid in xmltv, etc), at least whilst they disrupt other regions, so making changes to account for the grabber's quirks might be feasible...
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dekarl at spaetfruehstuecken

May 22, 2012, 11:03 PM

Post #6 of 8 (1108 views)
Permalink
Re: Is SeriesID field of program used for anything? [In reply to]

On 22.05.2012 10:08, Xander wrote:
> I'm messing with a custom made XMLTV grabber, and was wondering if the seriesid column in the program table is used for anything?
>
> Currently I've patched my mythfilldatabase to use the seriesid when present in the xml (set to a CRID from the data source).

I've seen interest from UK users in that area, too.

I would appreciate if you could extend your grabber to put the crids
into the episode-num element as "crid-seriesid" / "crid-programid"
(with a better name ;) just like the ddprogid is stored.
Then extend mythfilldatabase to handle both as special case that end up
in the programme database just like the same crids when they come over
the air.

But all that is going to be a hack until we get one central content
database, maybe tvbrainz, where we can relate series / seasons /
spin-offs / pilot movies to each other across different networks.
(keeping track of multiple persons with the same name or changing main
cast between seasons would be cool, too)

Regards,
Karl

PS: We really should write up something on the xmltv wiki on how to put
your guide into the schema so mythtv can get the best out of it. Others
can learn so much from the mythtv scheduler / a guide properly prepared
to support that scheduler. If you start a new page I can add my stuff
later. (e.g. how program_type for series/movie/sports/tvshow works)
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lexvictory at yahoo

May 23, 2012, 12:28 AM

Post #7 of 8 (1109 views)
Permalink
Re: Is SeriesID field of program used for anything? [In reply to]

--- On Wed, 23/5/12, Karl Dietz <dekarl [at] spaetfruehstuecken> wrote:

> From: Karl Dietz <dekarl [at] spaetfruehstuecken>
> Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Is SeriesID field of program used for anything?
> To: mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> Received: Wednesday, 23 May, 2012, 4:03 PM
> On 22.05.2012 10:08, Xander wrote:
>
> I would appreciate if you could extend your grabber to put
> the crids
> into the episode-num element as "crid-seriesid" /
> "crid-programid"
> (with a better name ;) just like the ddprogid is stored.
> Then extend mythfilldatabase to handle both as special case
> that end up
> in the programme database just like the same crids when they
> come over
> the air.
Will do, though probably using "crid-series" and "crid-program" since we don't need "id" twice
It already does this, just with different names.

> But all that is going to be a hack until we get one central
> content
> database, maybe tvbrainz, where we can relate series /
> seasons /
> spin-offs / pilot movies to each other across different
> networks.
> (keeping track of multiple persons with the same name or
> changing main
> cast between seasons would be cool, too)
This is why I avoid giving MythTV a program crid when there is season/episode info - and is the source of my problems
Tvbrainz?

> PS: We really should write up something on the xmltv wiki on
> how to put
> your guide into the schema so mythtv can get the best out of
> it. Others
> can learn so much from the mythtv scheduler / a guide
> properly prepared
> to support that scheduler. If you start a new page I can add
> my stuff
> later. (e.g. how program_type for series/movie/sports/tvshow
> works)
I'm not sure I understand what you want written up and where.
AU Freeview (i.e. my grabber) specifically? or CRID based in general? Schema as in XMLTV schema? MythDB schema?
XMLTV wiki as in http://wiki.xmltv.org ?
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dekarl at spaetfruehstuecken

May 23, 2012, 10:51 PM

Post #8 of 8 (1092 views)
Permalink
Re: Is SeriesID field of program used for anything? [In reply to]

Hi,

On 23.05.2012 09:28, Xander wrote:
> --- On Wed, 23/5/12, Karl Dietz<dekarl [at] spaetfruehstuecken> wrote:
>>
>> put the crids into the episode-num element as "crid-seriesid"
> Will do, though probably using "crid-series" and "crid-program" since we don't need "id" twice
> It already does this, just with different names.

sounds good

>> But all that is going to be a hack until we get one central
>> content database, maybe tvbrainz, where we can relate series /
>> seasons / spin-offs / pilot movies to each other across different
>> networks.
> This is why I avoid giving MythTV a program crid when there is season/episode info - and is the source of my problems
> Tvbrainz?

I'm trying to spread the idea of extending Musicbrainz to tv/movie data.
In my opinion it is the only community database with a decent editing
process, detailed enough data model, taking care of licensing issues
and they have already setup a non-profit.

So if any of you know or are a student who would like to work on that
next summer you can apply to do so via summer of code. I'm happy to
support whoever gives it a try with my experiences from setting up my
own guide service.

>> PS: We really should write up something on the xmltv wiki on
>> how to put
>> your guide into the schema so mythtv can get the best out of
>> it. Others
>> can learn so much from the mythtv scheduler / a guide
>> properly prepared
>> to support that scheduler. If you start a new page I can add
>> my stuff
>> later. (e.g. how program_type for series/movie/sports/tvshow
>> works)
> I'm not sure I understand what you want written up and where.

I'm thinking about a best-practice paper style collection of things
that work well in the context of massaging raw data into a guide that
works well for machines (aka MythTV scheduler).

Stuff like "make it the same title and category series to enable
recording the whole series with a single click in the guide".

> AU Freeview (i.e. my grabber) specifically?
no, but it is a good starting point for the various use cases

> or CRID based in general?
no, but it is a good starting point for the various use cases

> Schema as in XMLTV schema?
yes, explaining how to model your data into that schema to make it work

> MythDB schema?
yes, the category movie/series/sports/tvshow example is MythTV specific
(I'd guess its derived from the US data source, but making other guide
look the same works very well)

> XMLTV wiki as in http://wiki.xmltv.org ?
yes

Regards,
Karl
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