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Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one?

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eric at lisaneric

Apr 24, 2012, 8:53 PM

Post #51 of 102 (1388 views)
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Re: Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one? [In reply to]

On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 11:40 PM, Dan Littlejohn
<dan.littlejohn [at] gmail> wrote:
> You open the tool and it provides a list of folders. You
> navigate through the folders and video entries and press play. The video
> starts playing.

Agreed.

So we have:

1. There should be a top level menu entry called Path which can
browse music by filesystem path.
2. There should be a single key press to get to the tree view, with a
default binding of "3"
3. "All Tracks" should be a selectable object to add all tracks to the playlist
4. Any list longer than ~100 entries should automatically subdivide
into sublists
5. MythMusic should start on playlist tree view, rather than current playlist

Anything else?

Eric
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gordon.mccrae at gmail

Apr 25, 2012, 12:36 AM

Post #52 of 102 (1391 views)
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Re: Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one? [In reply to]

On 25/04/12 04:53, Eric Sharkey wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 11:40 PM, Dan Littlejohn
> <dan.littlejohn [at] gmail> wrote:
>> You open the tool and it provides a list of folders. You
>> navigate through the folders and video entries and press play. The video
>> starts playing.
> Agreed.
>
> So we have:
>
> 1. There should be a top level menu entry called Path which can
> browse music by filesystem path.
> 2. There should be a single key press to get to the tree view, with a
> default binding of "3"
> 3. "All Tracks" should be a selectable object to add all tracks to the playlist
> 4. Any list longer than ~100 entries should automatically subdivide
> into sublists
> 5. MythMusic should start on playlist tree view, rather than current playlist
>
> Anything else?
>
> Eric
>
This whole thing was covered in detail back in February, which I read
through when I first tried out 0.25. There was a comment that the
developer was not open to changing the playlist orientated direction of
the code. Based on this, I've started looking for an alternative.

I'm not blaming the developer, I'm not blaming anyone, I'm simply
looking for an alternative because it's been made clear to me that what
I want (the pre 0.25 functionality) is not coming any time soon.

I really do wish we could let sleeping dogs lie; both "sides" have made
their cases and they don't agree, so let's supply some alternatives.

Many people are stating that they don't understand why folks don't like
the 0.25 MythMusic and that it's a big improvement on the old version.
Personally I have exactly the opposite opinion; I had no issues with the
old MythMusic and my wife/kids found it's interface highly intuitive.
But I repeat, this is not about who's is better, this is about choice! I
deliberately didn't want to start a fight about this, so I looked for an
alternative, and it just seems to have restarted the mud slinging from
back in February.

If you want my input on what features MythMusic in 0.25 should have,
here's a simple one: behave exactly like the previous version when it
comes to selecting music, it worked, it was simple, kids as young as six
understood it.

Cheers
Gordon
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dan.gravell at talk21

Apr 25, 2012, 1:30 AM

Post #53 of 102 (1381 views)
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Re: Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one? [In reply to]

>I just wanted to add that I have a really nice integration of squeezeplay on my mythFE. The remote works seamlessly and I am even using the mythbuntu background on the squeezeplay theme, so the look and feel is a very close match. The only problem is that every once and a while squeezeslave and mythtv seem to clobber each other when accessing the audio port. I think its resolvable, but I havent spent enough time to figure out why.
>
>I originally followed the instructions on http://theskreegs.blogspot.com/2009/02/mythtv-squeezecenter-squeezeslave.html but it looks like the page came down. I had been meaning to document the steps for a while now. Maybe this will give me a reason to.

Your setup sounds great... I think you should document those instructions! Please! There's no record of the above page on archive.org.

Dan
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dan.gravell at talk21

Apr 25, 2012, 1:30 AM

Post #54 of 102 (1387 views)
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Re: Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one? [In reply to]

mythtv at theseekerr

Apr 25, 2012, 1:45 AM

Post #55 of 102 (1386 views)
Permalink

Re: Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one? [In reply to]

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 6:30 PM, Dan Gravell <dan.gravell [at] talk21> wrote:

> >I just wanted to add that I have a really nice integration of squeezeplay
> on my mythFE. The remote works seamlessly and I am even using the mythbuntu
> background on the squeezeplay theme, so the look and feel is a very close
> match. The only problem is that every once and a while squeezeslave and
> mythtv seem to clobber each other when accessing the audio port. I think
> its resolvable, but I havent spent enough time to figure out why.
> >
> >I originally followed the instructions on
> http://theskreegs.blogspot.com/2009/02/mythtv-squeezecenter-squeezeslave.html
> but it looks like the page came down. I had been meaning to document the
> steps for a while now. Maybe this will give me a reason to.
>
>
> Your setup sounds great... I think you should document those instructions!
> Please! There's no record of the above page on archive.org.
>

I think http://www.scorch.org/?p=211 is the same article - I use a similar
setup, although I didn't bother with the LIRC integration. I used to have a
menu in the frontend which used the SqueezeCenter (now Logitech Media
Server) Telnet Interface to control playback, but now I just use iPeng on
an iPhone.

- Chris

dan.gravell at talk21

Apr 25, 2012, 3:15 AM

Post #56 of 102 (1377 views)
Permalink

Re: Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one? [In reply to]

>I think http://www.scorch.org/?p=211 is the same article - I use a similar setup, although I didn't bother with the LIRC integration. I used to have a menu in the frontend which used the SqueezeCenter (now Logitech Media Server) Telnet Interface to control playback, but now I just use iPeng on an iPhone.

Thanks Chris. It's worth noting that Squeezeplay has since moved on and can now play audio itself, so in theory squeezeslave is now not required.

Dan
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mythtv at theseekerr

Apr 25, 2012, 3:22 AM

Post #57 of 102 (1369 views)
Permalink

Re: Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one? [In reply to]

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 8:15 PM, Dan Gravell <dan.gravell [at] talk21> wrote:

> >I think http://www.scorch.org/?p=211 is the same article - I use a
> similar setup, although I didn't bother with the LIRC integration. I used
> to have a menu in the frontend which used the SqueezeCenter (now Logitech
> Media Server) Telnet Interface to control playback, but now I just use
> iPeng on an iPhone.
>
>
> Thanks Chris. It's worth noting that Squeezeplay has since moved on and
> can now play audio itself, so in theory squeezeslave is now not required.
>

I actually prefer to have Squeezeslave, it works well for my particular
application.

For my setup, I run TV and music audio separately - audio from Myth goes
via HDMI to the TV, then from the TV to the amplifier, while music goes
straight to the amp via an analogue RCA cable.

This works for me because I never want to hear music from the TV speakers,
nor do I ever want to listen to music and television simultaneously.

As a side effect of the above, it doesn't make sense to have to start a
program on the "TV" to listen to music, so having the Squeezeslave daemon
run silently in the background works well.

- Chris

snharris99 at live

Apr 25, 2012, 4:00 AM

Post #58 of 102 (1371 views)
Permalink

Re: Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one? [In reply to]

>> It doesn't actually have *any* of that. It has the ability to select an
>> album or artist and "add" or "replace tracks", thereby adding it to the
>> current playlist. It does not have the ability to simply select
>> something
>> and have it play.

>I guess I honestly don't understand the distinction. MythMusic .24
>and earlier also always had a "current playlist". Selecting something
>from the music tree would add that to the current play list, just like
>add tracks does in .25.

>> I don't like it, you do, that's cool; not sure about calling those of us
>> who
>> don’t and are looking for options insane though. Personally, I'd
>> probably
>> *love* the new version with the simple addition of directory browsing as
>> opposed to being forced to use meta tags.

>It just seems like so much discussion on this list is being spent on
>how to use something other than mythtv for music rather than coming up
>with a clear and concise list of tweaks needed.

>Something like:

> 1. There should be a top level menu entry called Path which can
>browse music by filesystem path.
> 2. There should be a single key press to get to the tree view, with
>a default binding of "3"
> 3. "All Tracks" should be a selectable object to add all tracks to
>the playlist
> 4. Any list longer than ~100 entries should automatically subdivide
>into sublists

>Anything else?

>Eric

When a track is selected, it should start to play (resigning myself to the
"fact" that it must also be added to the playlist now).

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dan.gravell at talk21

Apr 25, 2012, 4:16 AM

Post #59 of 102 (1371 views)
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Re: Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one? [In reply to]

>I actually prefer to have Squeezeslave, it works well for my particular application.
>
>For my setup, I run TV and music audio separately - audio from Myth goes via HDMI to the TV, then from the TV to the amplifier, while music goes straight to the amp via an analogue RCA cable.
>
>This works for me because I never want to hear music from the TV speakers, nor do I ever want to listen to music and television simultaneously.
>
>As a side effect of the above, it doesn't make sense to have to start a program on the "TV" to listen to music, so having the Squeezeslave daemon run silently in the background works well.

That's a good point. Would also work nicely with having music on whilst doing other stuff with Myth, e.g. browsing pictures (I know MythMusic offers this, but I'd prefer to have all music integrated with the SBS).

BTW, Squeezeplay can also be used like this, at the cost of running the UI. In my office I have a Mac Mini which runs Squeezeplay and is essentially a daemon; I don't use the Squeezeplay UI, I control it from my separate workstation using the SBS web UI or the Android app. If this were the case with Myth, we'd need a way of bringing the UI to the foreground rather than starting/stopping it.

Dan
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matthew.garman at gmail

Apr 25, 2012, 4:35 AM

Post #60 of 102 (1371 views)
Permalink

Re: Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one? [In reply to]

On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 09:12:13PM +0100, Gordon McCrae wrote:
> ...
> Not wanting to reinvent the wheel, and conscious that compiling
> the old 0.24.x MythMusic to work with 0.25 is a very temporary
> solution at best, I'd like to know if anyone else out there uses
> alternative music players that implement the same sort of
> ARTIST/ALBUM/SONG structure that the old MythMusic used and can be
> controlled simply with a remote control (no keyboards on any of my
> eight MythTV systems).

Just to throw another idea out there, here's what I do. This is
driven not by any issue with MythTV (I'm still on 0.24), but by the
fact that I don't want to turn my power-hungy plasma TV on just to
listen to music.

I run MPD (music player daemon) on my frontend box. I have a
wireless network in my home and my wife and I each have Android
phones. There are at least two free Android MPD clients (I used
"Droid MPD Client"). I would be surprised if there weren't iPhone
MPD clients as well.

My FE uses optical SPDIF output to a preamp/DAC, using alsa withOUT
dmix for bit-perfect output. I can control volume via this preamp
device via my universal remote.

Of course you don't have to use a smartphone, you could also use a
laptop or nettop, or even turn on your TV and load up an MPD app
instead of Myth (e.g. similar to others have suggested using XBMC).
Last time I checked, it seemed there were dozens of MPD clients (I
happen to use the text-based ncmpcpp, and even then only rarely, as
most control is via my phone).

I think what I'm doing is very similar to what I understand the
Squeeze-type devices do... but I didn't have to buy any extra
hardware.

Hope someone finds this useful!

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george.galt at gmail

Apr 25, 2012, 6:26 AM

Post #61 of 102 (1359 views)
Permalink

Re: Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one? [In reply to]

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 6:22 AM, Christopher Kerr <mythtv [at] theseekerr> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 8:15 PM, Dan Gravell <dan.gravell [at] talk21> wrote:
>>
>> >I think http://www.scorch.org/?p=211 is the same article - I use a
>> > similar setup, although I didn't bother with the LIRC integration. I used to
>> > have a menu in the frontend which used the SqueezeCenter (now Logitech Media
>> > Server) Telnet Interface to control playback, but now I just use iPeng on an
>> > iPhone.
>>
>>
>> Thanks Chris. It's worth noting that Squeezeplay has since moved on and
>> can now play audio itself, so in theory squeezeslave is now not required.
>
>
> I actually prefer to have Squeezeslave, it works well for my particular
> application.
>
> For my setup, I run TV and music audio separately - audio from Myth goes via
> HDMI to the TV, then from the TV to the amplifier, while music goes straight
> to the amp via an analogue RCA cable.
>
> This works for me because I never want to hear music from the TV speakers,
> nor do I ever want to listen to music and television simultaneously.
>
> As a side effect of the above, it doesn't make sense to have to start a
> program on the "TV" to listen to music, so having the Squeezeslave daemon
> run silently in the background works well.
>
> - Chris
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

For those interested, I pushed an experimental version of a myth
plugin frontend for the squeezeslave client last night to github
(https://github.com/ggalt/mythsqueeze). I had posted a separate note
with a brief youtube video so you can see what it looks like. This is
experimental, so not for the faint of heart.

George
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eric at lisaneric

Apr 25, 2012, 6:47 AM

Post #62 of 102 (1365 views)
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Re: Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one? [In reply to]

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 7:00 AM, Scott & Nicole Harris
<snharris99 [at] live> wrote:
> When a track is selected, it should start to play (resigning myself to the
> "fact" that it must also be added to the playlist now).

But doesn't it do that already? As far as I can tell, that's exactly
how it works now, just like it did in .24.

I really feel like I'm missing something, because I just don't
understand how you see the .25 "playlist model" as any different than
it was in .24.

Eric
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adeffs.mythtv at gmail

Apr 25, 2012, 6:57 AM

Post #63 of 102 (1359 views)
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Re: Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one? [In reply to]

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Eric Sharkey <eric [at] lisaneric> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 7:00 AM, Scott & Nicole Harris
> <snharris99 [at] live> wrote:
>> When a track is selected, it should start to play (resigning myself to the
>> "fact" that it must also be added to the playlist now).
>
> But doesn't it do that already? As far as I can tell, that's exactly
> how it works now, just like it did in .24.
>
> I really feel like I'm missing something, because I just don't
> understand how you see the .25 "playlist model" as any different than
> it was in .24.
>
> Eric

in 0.24 I *never* used playlists. not once. and I had no problem playing music.
now, when and if I'm able to find what I want to play, I have to add
to a playlist, jump around to that playlist, etc. just to play an
album that in 0.24 took one button, select.

--
Steve
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User:Steveadeff
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eric at lisaneric

Apr 25, 2012, 7:09 AM

Post #64 of 102 (1363 views)
Permalink

Re: Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one? [In reply to]

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 9:57 AM, Steven Adeff <adeffs.mythtv [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Eric Sharkey <eric [at] lisaneric> wrote:
>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 7:00 AM, Scott & Nicole Harris
>> <snharris99 [at] live> wrote:
>>> When a track is selected, it should start to play (resigning myself to the
>>> "fact" that it must also be added to the playlist now).
>>
>> But doesn't it do that already? As far as I can tell, that's exactly
>> how it works now, just like it did in .24.
>>
>> I really feel like I'm missing something, because I just don't
>> understand how you see the .25 "playlist model" as any different than
>> it was in .24.
>>
>> Eric
>
> in 0.24 I *never* used playlists. not once. and I had no problem playing music.
> now, when and if I'm able to find what I want to play, I have to add
> to a playlist, jump around to that playlist, etc. just to play an
> album that in 0.24 took one button, select.

But in .24 when you selected an album, it put that album on the
current (un-named) playlist.

You may not have used named playlists, but there definitely was always
a current playlist.

Eric
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eric at lisaneric

Apr 25, 2012, 7:22 AM

Post #65 of 102 (1361 views)
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Re: Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one? [In reply to]

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 3:36 AM, Gordon McCrae <gordon.mccrae [at] gmail> wrote:
> This whole thing was covered in detail back in February, which I read
> through when I first tried out 0.25. There was a comment that the developer
> was not open to changing the playlist orientated direction of the code.
> Based on this, I've started looking for an alternative.
>
> I'm not blaming the developer, I'm not blaming anyone, I'm simply looking
> for an alternative because it's been made clear to me that what I want (the
> pre 0.25 functionality) is not coming any time soon.

Well, the other thing not coming back any time soon is that developer.
Somebody needs to step up to the plate to take over maintenance of
MythMusic. Maybe I'll do it, I don't know, but I really have no clue
what you guys are missing in terms of being able to play music without
a playlist. The concept doesn't even make sense to me. How can an
application play music without having at least an internal list of
what it's playing?

Eric
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jedi at mishnet

Apr 25, 2012, 7:27 AM

Post #66 of 102 (1367 views)
Permalink

Re: Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one? [In reply to]

On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 07:02:55PM -0400, Eric Sharkey wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Gordon McCrae <gordon.mccrae [at] gmail> wrote:
> > Let's be clear Eric, no-one is saying it should be replaced, simply that we
> > don't like the "everything is a playlist" concept and that we preferred the
> > old method of having a directory tree that you could simply browse around
> > and if you clicked play at the top level it played all your music, if you
> > clicked at an artist it played everything by that artist, if you clicked at
> > an album it played the album and if you clicked on a song it played a song.
>
> Ok. So the .25 mythmusic has all of that except the top level select
> all. Is that really something that people really used? Sure, I did
> it a few times as a lark in previous releases but in practice I found
> the result just too weird.
>
> A lot of these posts read like people who haven't tried it for more
> than a few minutes or somehow didn't find the built-in playlist editor

Sounds like a usability problem to me. It's still the same basic
issue regardless of whether or not you want to belittle end users over it.

[deletia]

Hiding the old way of doing things in a menu and giving it a non-intuitive
name is probably doing to cause confusion and frustration.
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adeffs.mythtv at gmail

Apr 25, 2012, 7:33 AM

Post #67 of 102 (1366 views)
Permalink

Re: Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one? [In reply to]

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Eric Sharkey <eric [at] lisaneric> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 9:57 AM, Steven Adeff <adeffs.mythtv [at] gmail> wrote:
>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Eric Sharkey <eric [at] lisaneric> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 7:00 AM, Scott & Nicole Harris
>>> <snharris99 [at] live> wrote:
>>>> When a track is selected, it should start to play (resigning myself to the
>>>> "fact" that it must also be added to the playlist now).
>>>
>>> But doesn't it do that already? As far as I can tell, that's exactly
>>> how it works now, just like it did in .24.
>>>
>>> I really feel like I'm missing something, because I just don't
>>> understand how you see the .25 "playlist model" as any different than
>>> it was in .24.
>>>
>>> Eric
>>
>> in 0.24 I *never* used playlists. not once. and I had no problem playing music.
>> now, when and if I'm able to find what I want to play, I have to add
>> to a playlist, jump around to that playlist, etc. just to play an
>> album that in 0.24 took one button, select.
>
> But in .24 when you selected an album, it put that album on the
> current (un-named) playlist.
>
> You may not have used named playlists, but there definitely was always
> a current playlist.

OOOOH!!! your confusing a playlist with a play queue!

In 0.24 you could go through the tree as you had it set (directory,
artists, etc), find what you want to play and click "select" and it
would start playing from that track or if on a higher tree element,
everything under that element. If I wanted to play something else I
would just find it and again press select and whatever was currently
playing would stop and the new item would play. This is more akin to a
"play queue" than a playlist, in, well, every other music playing
software I've ever used.

You could also specifically create a playlist, select tracks to be
added to that playlist, and then any time you went into MythMusic that
playlist would be available to be played. Again, how this works in
basically every other music playing software.

But these are/were two totally different things.

in 0.25, EVERYTHING is done through a playlist, the concept of a play
queue as used in other music software, is implemented in 0.25 as a
playlist.

In theory this is fine, in practice, at least as implemented in 0.25
currently, this does not work well, it is cumbersome to use, even
AFTER you understand that his is how it works.

Now understand, there are multiple things going on with the complaints
about 0.25.

First, a wholesale change as to how MythMusic worked with little to no
request for input from users as to how they use MythMusic.

Second, a HUGE change was made to MythMusic with little to no
documentation as to how things work now, much confusion ensued since
few could figure it out, on top of having a completely different
method for how things work.

Third, what felt like little to no attempt by the previous developer
to address the issues.

Many ideas were thrown out in the last few years on the users and dev
list before Paul H commited his work, very little seems to have been
listened to, Paul went forward and implemented a system that works for
him (apparently) with what seems like no concern with any other users.

We're not saying what Paul did was totally useless, what we're saying
is it still needs a lot of work and should not have been released as
MythMusic and part of 0.25. Perhaps it should have been a separate
plugin, say MythMusic2, that would allow some users to install it and
others to continue to use the older version. Allow MythMusic2 to go
through some more development before it completely replaces the
previous plugin that worked for so many.

Hopefully someone will want to pick up the reigns and move MythMusic
forward to something useful, but until then, a way to revert to the
old plugin would be quite nice.

--
Steve
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User:Steveadeff
Before you ask, read the FAQ!
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Questions
then search the Wiki, and this list,
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eric at lisaneric

Apr 25, 2012, 7:46 AM

Post #68 of 102 (1365 views)
Permalink

Re: Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one? [In reply to]

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Steven Adeff <adeffs.mythtv [at] gmail> wrote:
> OOOOH!!! your confusing a playlist with a play queue!

In a play queue, once a track is played, it's de-queued and forgotten.
Is that what all this is about? The fact that after you play an
album it's still in the list?

Eric
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jedi at mishnet

Apr 25, 2012, 7:47 AM

Post #69 of 102 (1364 views)
Permalink

Re: Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one? [In reply to]

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 10:22:49AM -0400, Eric Sharkey wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 3:36 AM, Gordon McCrae <gordon.mccrae [at] gmail> wrote:
> > This whole thing was covered in detail back in February, which I read
> > through when I first tried out 0.25. There was a comment that the developer
> > was not open to changing the playlist orientated direction of the code.
> > Based on this, I've started looking for an alternative.
> >
> > I'm not blaming the developer, I'm not blaming anyone, I'm simply looking
> > for an alternative because it's been made clear to me that what I want (the
> > pre 0.25 functionality) is not coming any time soon.
>
> Well, the other thing not coming back any time soon is that developer.
> Somebody needs to step up to the plate to take over maintenance of
> MythMusic. Maybe I'll do it, I don't know, but I really have no clue
> what you guys are missing in terms of being able to play music without
> a playlist. The concept doesn't even make sense to me. How can an
> application play music without having at least an internal list of
> what it's playing?

Navigate the tree and play everything that's a child of the node
that's been selected. It's just like a file manager and very much like
mythvideo or the recordings screen.

Needs nothing more than cursor buttons and an ok button.

Depends on nothing that isn't already visible the moment you start
the interface. Requires minimal interaction with the interface.
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adeffs.mythtv at gmail

Apr 25, 2012, 8:02 AM

Post #70 of 102 (1360 views)
Permalink

Re: Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one? [In reply to]

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 10:46 AM, Eric Sharkey <eric [at] lisaneric> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Steven Adeff <adeffs.mythtv [at] gmail> wrote:
>> OOOOH!!! your confusing a playlist with a play queue!
>
> In a play queue, once a track is played, it's de-queued and forgotten.
> Is that what all this is about? The fact that after you play an
> album it's still in the list?

Not exactly, though I get where you're going.
the queue in essence, yes, is a playlist, temporary though and with
the idea that some of the other more powerful features of a playlist
are not implemented in exchange for ease of use. it's not always the
ideal way of working with music playback, which is where the more
powerful playlists come in, but it is meant to make it easy for the
user to play back content quickly. was this play queue "perfect" in
0.24, no, but it was easy and quick and for 90% of the time using
MythMusic it worked quite well.

Part of how that went though was the ease of use of starting music
playback with the queue, since no extra effort was needed to use it,
you just highlight what you want to listen to and click "ok" and it
would be added to this play queue and music starts coming out of your
speakers.

The essential complaint to *this aspect* of 0.25 is that it is much
more cumbersome to get music to play quickly once the user has found
what they want to play because this the queue was replaced by a
playlist that requires much more interaction.

As a side note to your comment as well: with the old queue, you could
jump forward and back within the current queued list (though you could
not see what was before or after your first track), just that if you
selected something else to listen to in the selection tree the current
queue would be forgotten and the new selection replaced it and would
immediately begin playing.

I'll make this standard disclaimer again: we're not saying the old
plugin was perfect, and we are not saying the new plugin is worthless,
what we are saying is that the added features of the new plugin should
not have meant total loss of the good features of the old plugin.
While the old one was not perfect, many users found it worked quite
well in many ways and the total loss of that for the new plugin should
not have been forced how it was since the new plugin is not quite
ready and should probably have been put off until 0.26.

--
Steve
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User:Steveadeff
Before you ask, read the FAQ!
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Questions
then search the Wiki, and this list,
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snharris99 at live

Apr 25, 2012, 8:29 AM

Post #71 of 102 (1345 views)
Permalink

Re: Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one? [In reply to]

> <snharris99 [at] live> wrote:
> > When a track is selected, it should start to play (resigning myself to the
> > "fact" that it must also be added to the playlist now).
>
> But doesn't it do that already? As far as I can tell, that's exactly
> how it works now, just like it did in .24.
>
> I really feel like I'm missing something, because I just don't
> understand how you see the .25 "playlist model" as any different than
> it was in .24.
>
> Eric

No, that isn't how it works already. Currently, when you navigate the tree, find a *track* (not album, artist, etc -> a specific *track*) and press "select", the only thing that happens is the track gets added to the current, unnamed playlist (which if you don't know that's what's happening is confusing on its own). You then have to work your way over to said current, unnamed playlist, find the song you just added and press "select" again to actually have it play. AFAICT, even if you select at the album or artist level, it will only start playing your selection if you choose the "replace" option, which means that if I just want to play the album I selected I have to clear all my other selections or again, make my way over to the current playlist, find my new selections and play them.
Now, it's entirely possible that I've missed how to actually do what I'm saying it doesn't do. If that's true, I apologize, and would say as someone who works all day with computers, that goes to the whole usability issue that's being raised. If *I* can't figure it out, I guarantee you my wife or 8 year old twins won't be able to.
As far as 0.24 "always worked that way too", that's false. In 0.24, when you selected a song to play, it played it, if you selected an album or artist, it queued all items under it. There was no secondary "holding tank" that you had to move to to actually play your selections (which just keeps getting more and more cluttered as you simply want to play a song). You could create play lists if you wanted to, but it was not required.
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mikep at randomtraveller

Apr 25, 2012, 8:58 AM

Post #72 of 102 (1350 views)
Permalink

Re: Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one? [In reply to]

On 25/04/12 15:22, Eric Sharkey wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 3:36 AM, Gordon McCrae<gordon.mccrae [at] gmail> wrote:
>> This whole thing was covered in detail back in February, which I read
>> through when I first tried out 0.25. There was a comment that the developer
>> was not open to changing the playlist orientated direction of the code.
>> Based on this, I've started looking for an alternative.
>>
>> I'm not blaming the developer, I'm not blaming anyone, I'm simply looking
>> for an alternative because it's been made clear to me that what I want (the
>> pre 0.25 functionality) is not coming any time soon.
>
> Well, the other thing not coming back any time soon is that developer.
> Somebody needs to step up to the plate to take over maintenance of
> MythMusic. Maybe I'll do it, I don't know, but I really have no clue
> what you guys are missing in terms of being able to play music without
> a playlist. The concept doesn't even make sense to me. How can an
> application play music without having at least an internal list of
> what it's playing?
>
Um, the same way I select a recording in "Watch Recordings" and it starts
playing? The same way I click on a video and it starts playing?

*This* is the way the rest of mythtv works. The UI for the whole system ought to
be internally consistent, right? Same buttons do the same things?

I notice that there are 'playlists' available when watching recordings. Possibly
in video, never noticed. I have only ever used them when bulk deleting files.

--

Mike Perkins

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eric at lisaneric

Apr 25, 2012, 9:29 AM

Post #73 of 102 (1352 views)
Permalink

Re: Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one? [In reply to]

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Mike Perkins
<mikep [at] randomtraveller> wrote:
> Um, the same way I select a recording in "Watch Recordings" and it starts
> playing? The same way I click on a video and it starts playing?

I'll try this again when I get home tonight. I don't think I tried it
with individual tracks. When you select and album or artist it starts
playing, but maybe tracks are different for some reason.

Eric
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lists at glidos

Apr 25, 2012, 11:05 AM

Post #74 of 102 (1338 views)
Permalink

Re: Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one? [In reply to]

On 25/04/2012 17:29, Eric Sharkey wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Mike Perkins
> <mikep [at] randomtraveller> wrote:
>> Um, the same way I select a recording in "Watch Recordings" and it starts
>> playing? The same way I click on a video and it starts playing?
>
> I'll try this again when I get home tonight. I don't think I tried it
> with individual tracks. When you select and album or artist it starts
> playing, but maybe tracks are different for some reason.

Yep, if you select an album it immediately starts playing, so the only
really awkward thing is that you have to change view to the playlist
editor before you can get started. Perhaps, if one shutsdown the FE
correctly, that view selection is remembered, so you have to make
the view change only once.

Tracks being different to albums is a bit confusing. It would perhaps
be better if the current playlist started as soon as it was non empty,
whether it be by the addition of a track or an album. Also it is a
huge pain that selections are lost if the frontend is just killed off.

I'm one of the people who like the new MythMusic, by the way.

Paul.
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snharris99 at live

Apr 25, 2012, 11:09 AM

Post #75 of 102 (1337 views)
Permalink

Re: Alternatives to MythMusic in 0.25, has anyone already found one? [In reply to]

> On 25/04/2012 17:29, Eric Sharkey wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Mike Perkins
> > <mikep [at] randomtraveller> wrote:
> >> Um, the same way I select a recording in "Watch Recordings" and it starts
> >> playing? The same way I click on a video and it starts playing?
> >
> > I'll try this again when I get home tonight. I don't think I tried it
> > with individual tracks. When you select and album or artist it starts
> > playing, but maybe tracks are different for some reason.
>
> Yep, if you select an album it immediately starts playing, so the only
> really awkward thing is that you have to change view to the playlist
> editor before you can get started. Perhaps, if one shutsdown the FE
> correctly, that view selection is remembered, so you have to make
> the view change only once.

It doesn't. I have not found a way to have your previous view retained, it always defaults to the "Current Playlist" view.
> Tracks being different to albums is a bit confusing. It would perhaps
> be better if the current playlist started as soon as it was non empty,
> whether it be by the addition of a track or an album. Also it is a
> huge pain that selections are lost if the frontend is just killed off.

Agreed, changing the way things are saved to make them more immediate would be a huge plus.
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