Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Users

Who's going to be the first?

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gravityhammer at gmail

Sep 1, 2010, 11:20 AM

Post #1 of 112 (972 views)
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Who's going to be the first?

... to slap a frontend on one of these?
http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/01/apple-announcing-new-apple-tv/
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beww at beww

Sep 1, 2010, 12:15 PM

Post #2 of 112 (945 views)
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Re: Who's going to be the first? [In reply to]

On Wednesday, September 01, 2010 12:20:08 pm Phil Bridges wrote:
> ... to slap a frontend on one of these?
> http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/01/apple-announcing-new-apple-tv/

So one movie and 3 TV shows will cost the same as unlimited streaming from Netflix?

Can't see why anyone would pay such prices to buy programming for this from (or through) Apple.

$99 puts it in the same range as the Roku, various NMTs and the like.

I don't see anything to set it apart from the crowd except for the Apple name, except maybe as an easy way to watch video
from an iPad, which it should be able to do all by itself anyway.

"Cloud-based" software means Apple and the movie studios will control everything this unit can do, and what you can and
can't do with it.

As you say, it would be nice to be able to run a Myth F/E on it, but I suspect they will try to lock it down like an
iPhone or iPad.

The big question is what sort of video hardware does it have, and are free drivers available for it.

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anaerin at gmail

Sep 1, 2010, 1:38 PM

Post #3 of 112 (935 views)
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Re: Who's going to be the first? [In reply to]

On 01/09/2010 1:15 PM, Brian Wood wrote:
> As you say, it would be nice to be able to run a Myth F/E on it, but
> I suspect they will try to lock it down like an iPhone or iPad.

Given that reports state it's running iOS4, the same OS as the iPhone
and iPad, chances are it's already locked down that hard.

> The big question is what sort of video hardware does it have, and are
> free drivers available for it.

It's probably an iPad inside, with the LVDS for the LCD display replaced
with a HDMI processor chip. Apple have stated it does 720p only, no
1080, so it's not going to be all that powerful. You'd probably be
better off sticking with an Ion-based Mini.
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beww at beww

Sep 1, 2010, 1:46 PM

Post #4 of 112 (942 views)
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Re: Who's going to be the first? [In reply to]

On Wednesday, September 01, 2010 02:38:57 pm Robert Johnston wrote:
> On 01/09/2010 1:15 PM, Brian Wood wrote:
> > As you say, it would be nice to be able to run a Myth F/E on it, but
> > I suspect they will try to lock it down like an iPhone or iPad.
>
> Given that reports state it's running iOS4, the same OS as the iPhone
> and iPad, chances are it's already locked down that hard.
>
> > The big question is what sort of video hardware does it have, and are
> > free drivers available for it.
>
> It's probably an iPad inside, with the LVDS for the LCD display replaced
> with a HDMI processor chip. Apple have stated it does 720p only, no
> 1080, so it's not going to be all that powerful. You'd probably be
> better off sticking with an Ion-based Mini.

I read that about 720p, then I read it again carefully and found it said "Apple will only be streaming 720p".

So I'm not sure if it's a hardware limitation or just the fact that streaming 1080i/p would take a LOT of bandwidth, or a
large cache and plenty of patience, so they are limiting the streaming to 720p, and even that is optimistic, based on my
experience with Netflix.

I think people who paid for 1080p sets will not be happy about being limited to 720p, no mater what it is that's causign
the limitation.

I'm surprised that Cisco hasn't complained about Apple calling that OS "IOS", sounds like what runs on a Cisco router to
me.
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scott at alfter

Sep 1, 2010, 1:49 PM

Post #5 of 112 (937 views)
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Re: Who's going to be the first? [In reply to]

On 1 Sep 10 13:46, Brian Wood wrote:
> I'm surprised that Cisco hasn't complained about Apple calling that OS
> "IOS", sounds like what runs on a Cisco router to me.

http://blogs.cisco.com/news/comment/cisco_and_apple_agreement_on_ios_trademark/

"Cisco has agreed to license the iOS trademark to Apple for use as the name of
Apple's operating system for iPhone, iPod touch and iPad. The license is for
use of the trademark only and not for any technology."

Scott Alfter
scott [at] alfter
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richard.e.morton at gmail

Sep 1, 2010, 1:56 PM

Post #6 of 112 (936 views)
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Re: Who's going to be the first? [In reply to]

I'm guessing (based on size, OS and price - $99) that this is Apple A4
powered; i.e. ARM.

Mythfrontend on ARM?

graphics acceleration?

I havent heard of an ARM SoC port; so I guess this would be a big project.

R
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raymond at wagnerrp

Sep 1, 2010, 2:01 PM

Post #7 of 112 (938 views)
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Re: Who's going to be the first? [In reply to]

On 9/1/2010 16:38, Robert Johnston wrote:
> You'd probably be better off sticking with an Ion-based Mini.

Apple does not currently produce, nor has ever produced, any ION based
machines.
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beww at beww

Sep 1, 2010, 2:37 PM

Post #8 of 112 (924 views)
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Re: Who's going to be the first? [In reply to]

On Wednesday, September 01, 2010 02:56:03 pm Richard Morton wrote:
> I'm guessing (based on size, OS and price - $99) that this is Apple A4
> powered; i.e. ARM.
>
> Mythfrontend on ARM?
>
> graphics acceleration?
>
> I havent heard of an ARM SoC port; so I guess this would be a big project.

The Plug port apparently runs on ARM, but that's not intended for a frontend, just the backend I think.

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beww at beww

Sep 1, 2010, 2:42 PM

Post #9 of 112 (924 views)
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Re: Who's going to be the first? [In reply to]

On Wednesday, September 01, 2010 02:49:00 pm Scott Alfter wrote:
> On 1 Sep 10 13:46, Brian Wood wrote:
> > I'm surprised that Cisco hasn't complained about Apple calling that OS
> > "IOS", sounds like what runs on a Cisco router to me.
>
> http://blogs.cisco.com/news/comment/cisco_and_apple_agreement_on_ios_tradem
> ark/
>
> "Cisco has agreed to license the iOS trademark to Apple for use as the name
> of Apple's operating system for iPhone, iPod touch and iPad. The license
> is for use of the trademark only and not for any technology."

It's really hard to believe that "iOS" would be worth paying what Cisco undoubtedly wanted for a license to use that name.
Most computers users are vague on what OS they are running anyway, if it's not Windows, and even they most are vague o
what version.

But I guess the cost is borne by the customers, not by Apple.

Sometimes I am amazed at how stupid Apple can be.

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jarod at wilsonet

Sep 1, 2010, 4:18 PM

Post #10 of 112 (925 views)
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Re: Who's going to be the first? [In reply to]

On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Richard Morton
<richard.e.morton [at] gmail> wrote:
> I'm guessing (based on size, OS and price - $99) that this is Apple A4
> powered; i.e. ARM.

It says right on the specs page that its an A4 proc.

I already plan to buy one, but not for anything mythtv-related.

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davilla at 4pi

Sep 1, 2010, 4:25 PM

Post #11 of 112 (911 views)
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Re: Who's going to be the first? [In reply to]

>On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Richard Morton
><richard.e.morton [at] gmail> wrote:
>> I'm guessing (based on size, OS and price - $99) that this is Apple A4
>> powered; i.e. ARM.
>
>It says right on the specs page that its an A4 proc.
>
>I already plan to buy one, but not for anything mythtv-related.

Me, me, me.
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gjhurlbu at gmail

Sep 1, 2010, 4:26 PM

Post #12 of 112 (909 views)
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Re: Who's going to be the first? [In reply to]

On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Jarod Wilson <jarod [at] wilsonet> wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Richard Morton
> <richard.e.morton [at] gmail> wrote:
> > I'm guessing (based on size, OS and price - $99) that this is Apple A4
> > powered; i.e. ARM.
>
> It says right on the specs page that its an A4 proc.
>
> I already plan to buy one, but not for anything mythtv-related.

Someone's an Apple fan-boy :)

It's a shame it seems to be iLocked like all else recent from apple. That
toy could be so useful otherwise. Still looks like a cool toy if you have a
need for it.

beww at beww

Sep 1, 2010, 4:36 PM

Post #13 of 112 (913 views)
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Re: Who's going to be the first? [In reply to]

On Wednesday, September 01, 2010 05:26:52 pm Gavin Hurlbut wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Jarod Wilson <jarod [at] wilsonet> wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Richard Morton
> >
> > <richard.e.morton [at] gmail> wrote:
> > > I'm guessing (based on size, OS and price - $99) that this is Apple A4
> > > powered; i.e. ARM.
> >
> > It says right on the specs page that its an A4 proc.
> >
> > I already plan to buy one, but not for anything mythtv-related.
>
> Someone's an Apple fan-boy :)
>
> It's a shame it seems to be iLocked like all else recent from apple. That
> toy could be so useful otherwise. Still looks like a cool toy if you have
> a need for it.

The operative word there is "looks".

I just don't see what's so great about it. For the same money you can get many units that are not locked down, and have
internal storage as well.

Other than the physical form-factor, what's the big deal? The ability to over-pay for programming and have Apple tell you
what you can and can't do?

Apple hype only goes so far, sooner or later you have to deliver the goods.

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gaberubin at gmail

Sep 1, 2010, 4:47 PM

Post #14 of 112 (908 views)
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Re: Who's going to be the first? [In reply to]

On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:36 PM, Brian Wood <beww [at] beww> wrote:
> The operative word there is "looks".
>
> I just don't see what's so great about it. For the same money you can get many units that are not locked down, and have
> internal storage as well.
>
> Other than the physical form-factor, what's the big deal? The ability to over-pay for programming and have Apple tell you
> what you can and can't do?
>
> Apple hype only goes so far, sooner or later you have to deliver the goods.
>

Can't you stream anything from inside your network as well on this
thing (well maybe not anything, I don't know what codecs and
containers this device can play) so you could theoretically get this
and play all your media, including music, through you home
entertainment system in a very nice form factor with a great UI. In
other words, you don't need to "rent" content from apple (but the
option is always there to do so)?

I realize I can do this now with myth. But for most, that is not an
option. And I am willing to bet that as nice as the myth UI has and
is still becoming, it doesn't compare to the UI on this device (and
for that matter no other device out there compares).

For lots of people, that is a huge selling point and $99 is pretty
cheap for the hardware.
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jwa at macbidouille

Sep 1, 2010, 5:07 PM

Post #15 of 112 (908 views)
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Re: Who's going to be the first? [In reply to]

On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 16:47, Gabe Rubin <gaberubin [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:36 PM, Brian Wood <beww [at] beww> wrote:
>> The operative word there is "looks".
>>
>> I just don't see what's so great about it. For the same money you can get many units that are not locked down, and have
>> internal storage as well.
>>
>> Other than the physical form-factor, what's the big deal? The ability to over-pay for programming and have Apple tell you
>> what you can and can't do?
>>
>> Apple hype only goes so far, sooner or later you have to deliver the goods.
>>
>
> Can't you stream anything from inside your network as well on this
> thing (well maybe not anything, I don't know what codecs and
> containers this device can play) so you could theoretically get this
> and play all your media, including music, through you home
> entertainment system in a very nice form factor with a great UI. �In
> other words, you don't need to "rent" content from apple (but the
> option is always there to do so)?

It supports h.264, mpeg-4, and motion jpeg. And it'll have to be .m4v,
.mp4, or .mov (except m-jpeg can be avi). No avi/divx. No mkv. So I
would have to convert the majority of my video library. And for audio
it's aac, alac, mp3, aiff, or wav. So it's a little better, but I'd
still have to convert some stuff.

> I realize I can do this now with myth. �But for most, that is not an
> option. �And I am willing to bet that as nice as the myth UI has and
> is still becoming, it doesn't compare to the UI on this device (and
> for that matter no other device out there compares).
>
> For lots of people, that is a huge selling point and $99 is pretty
> cheap for the hardware.

Seeing as how it's basically an iPad without the screen, I'd imagine
the power draw from the AppleTV would be incredibly low. That'll be
one advantage. That plus $99 will entice a lot of people. And if
someone finds a way to hack it to add more support for formats, or if
it were to work with UPNP to stream myth recordings, I'd be
interested.
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jarod at wilsonet

Sep 1, 2010, 5:09 PM

Post #16 of 112 (908 views)
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Re: Who's going to be the first? [In reply to]

On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 7:25 PM, Scott D. Davilla <davilla [at] 4pi> wrote:
>> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Richard Morton
>> <richard.e.morton [at] gmail> wrote:
>>>
>>> �I'm guessing (based on size, OS and price - $99) that this is Apple A4
>>> �powered; i.e. ARM.
>>
>> It says right on the specs page that its an A4 proc.
>>
>> I already plan to buy one, but not for anything mythtv-related.
>
> Me, me, me.

Yeah, i forgot to add that my guess for the answer to "Who's going to
be the first?" would be "Scott Davilla". :)

--
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jarod [at] wilsonet
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jarod at wilsonet

Sep 1, 2010, 5:14 PM

Post #17 of 112 (914 views)
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Re: Who's going to be the first? [In reply to]

On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Brian Wood <beww [at] beww> wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 01, 2010 05:26:52 pm Gavin Hurlbut wrote:
>> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Jarod Wilson <jarod [at] wilsonet> wrote:
>> > On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Richard Morton
>> >
>> > <richard.e.morton [at] gmail> wrote:
>> > > I'm guessing (based on size, OS and price - $99) that this is Apple A4
>> > > powered; i.e. ARM.
>> >
>> > It says right on the specs page that its an A4 proc.
>> >
>> > I already plan to buy one, but not for anything mythtv-related.
>>
>> Someone's an Apple fan-boy :)
>>
>> It's a shame it seems to be iLocked like all else recent from apple. �That
>> toy could be so useful otherwise. �Still looks like a cool toy if you have
>> a need for it.
>
> The operative word there is "looks".
>
> I just don't see what's so great about it. For the same money you can get many units that are not locked down, and have
> internal storage as well.
>
> Other than the physical form-factor, what's the big deal? The ability to over-pay for programming and have Apple tell you
> what you can and can't do?

Not going to use it for any programming (except maybe netflix
streaming if I ever get a netflix account again). Mainly just for
streaming music to. All the music in our house is managed in iTunes,
and there are multiple iDevices and Macs that can remotely control
and/or output music to one. I do exactly that with the AppleTV I
already have, and would like to have a second one I can hook up to the
stereo downstairs too. Sure, I could get a squeeze player or
something. But its nowhere near as tightly integrated as iTunes, and
iPhone and an AppleTV. So I guess for me, its more just an
AppleMusicOutputDevice than an AppleTV, with the added bonus that it
can also do other things, if I want.

--
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jarod [at] wilsonet
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jarod at wilsonet

Sep 1, 2010, 5:18 PM

Post #18 of 112 (914 views)
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Re: Who's going to be the first? [In reply to]

On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 8:07 PM, JWA <jwa [at] macbidouille> wrote:
...
> Seeing as how it's basically an iPad without the screen, I'd imagine
> the power draw from the AppleTV would be incredibly low. �That'll be
> one advantage. �That plus $99 will entice a lot of people. �And if
> someone finds a way to hack it to add more support for formats, or if
> it were to work with UPNP to stream myth recordings, I'd be
> interested.

"If"? Heh. You mean "when". I can almost hear Scott already chomping
at the bit to get one. ;)

Wonder if the wifi in it is on a half-height mini pcie card or if its
fully integrated...

--
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jarod [at] wilsonet
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gaberubin at gmail

Sep 1, 2010, 5:21 PM

Post #19 of 112 (908 views)
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Re: Who's going to be the first? [In reply to]

On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 5:14 PM, Jarod Wilson <jarod [at] wilsonet> wrote:
> stereo downstairs too. Sure, I could get a squeeze player or
> something. But its nowhere near as tightly integrated as iTunes, and
> iPhone and an AppleTV. So I guess for me, its more just an
> AppleMusicOutputDevice than an AppleTV, with the added bonus that it
> can also do other things, if I want.
>

Jarod, can I suggest trying the softsqueeze player and adding that to
your front ends and a having the squeezeserver on your backend. I did
this recently and it works great for playing music through my stereo.
I purchased the iPeng app for my iPhone, which also works on iPadsl
and the whole thing works exceedingly well. You don't get
visualizations, although I know there is an unofficial plug-in to
allow that for myth that I have not had the time to try and install
but would probably be trivial for you. And you also can access it via
a web-based interface if you don't want to pay the $10 for iPeng. I
have no connection to iPeng's developer, but I do find it to work well
and recommend it (which is saying a bit being as, with a few
exceptions, all my iPhone apps are free).

Granted, the interface is not as nice as what I imagine the new Apple
TV interface to be, but you can also get music streaming with a pretty
good interface to every frontend for free (or $10 if you want the
iPeng app).
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jyavenard at gmail

Sep 1, 2010, 5:22 PM

Post #20 of 112 (908 views)
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Re: Who's going to be the first? [In reply to]

Hi

On 2 September 2010 05:15, Brian Wood <beww [at] beww> wrote:
>
> Can't see why anyone would pay such prices to buy programming for this from (or through) Apple.

Maybe anyone outside the US with no access to netflix ?
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jyavenard at gmail

Sep 1, 2010, 5:24 PM

Post #21 of 112 (908 views)
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Re: Who's going to be the first? [In reply to]

Hi

On 2 September 2010 07:01, Raymond Wagner <raymond [at] wagnerrp> wrote:
>
> Apple does not currently produce, nor has ever produced, any ION based
> machines.

Sure they did.

All the 9400M based one (macbook, macbook pro, imac, mac mini)

They weren't running the atom processor, but it's the same nvidia chipset
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jyavenard at gmail

Sep 1, 2010, 5:30 PM

Post #22 of 112 (908 views)
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Re: Who's going to be the first? [In reply to]

Hi

On 2 September 2010 09:36, Brian Wood <beww [at] beww> wrote:

> The operative word there is "looks".
>
> I just don't see what's so great about it. For the same money you can get many units that are not locked down, and have
> internal storage as well.

Really? which one can you get ?

>
> Other than the physical form-factor, what's the big deal? The ability to over-pay for programming and have Apple tell you
> what you can and can't do?

It means getting movies for a fair price, convenient at the press of a button.

Don't see any reasons why *not* get excited by it

>
> Apple hype only goes so far, sooner or later you have to deliver the goods.
>

they surely did there.
It's cheap, it looks good, only draws 6W. As most Apple product it
will do what it's designed to do very well.

Don't like it? don't buy it.. easy

I have never bought as much music that since iTunes started... Will
hopefully be the same when their range of movies and TV content is as
good.

You may be lucky in the US, but in Oz, most movies takes forever to
show up, and there are plenty of TV series you just can't get.

Sure, I can torrent most of those, but surely, that you can shouldn't
enter in the argument discussing a commercial product
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jyavenard at gmail

Sep 1, 2010, 5:34 PM

Post #23 of 112 (911 views)
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Re: Who's going to be the first? [In reply to]

>> I just don't see what's so great about it. For the same money you can get many units that are not locked down, and have
>> internal storage as well.
>
> Really? which one can you get ?

Thinking about it.

This reminds me of the same argument about the new mac mini and how
expensive it was.

Yet, no-one could find a device as powerful nor as slick (e.g. small
and low power usage) as the mac mini in that price range or cheaper.
And the mac mini cost 10 times more than the new apple TV.

So surely, finding something that beats the Apple TV feature-wise is
going to be even harder
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raymond at wagnerrp

Sep 1, 2010, 5:37 PM

Post #24 of 112 (911 views)
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Re: Who's going to be the first? [In reply to]

On 9/1/2010 20:24, Jean-Yves Avenard wrote:
> On 2 September 2010 07:01, Raymond Wagner<raymond [at] wagnerrp> wrote:
>> Apple does not currently produce, nor has ever produced, any ION based
>> machines.
> Sure they did.
>
> All the 9400M based one (macbook, macbook pro, imac, mac mini)
>
> They weren't running the atom processor, but it's the same nvidia chipset
>

Right. They were using the 9400M, but since the ION platform
specifically means a 9400M paired with an Atom processor, those systems
were not ION systems.
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jarod at wilsonet

Sep 1, 2010, 5:41 PM

Post #25 of 112 (915 views)
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Re: Who's going to be the first? [In reply to]

On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 8:21 PM, Gabe Rubin <gaberubin [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 5:14 PM, Jarod Wilson <jarod [at] wilsonet> wrote:
>> stereo downstairs too. Sure, I could get a squeeze player or
>> something. But its nowhere near as tightly integrated as iTunes, and
>> iPhone and an AppleTV. So I guess for me, its more just an
>> AppleMusicOutputDevice than an AppleTV, with the added bonus that it
>> can also do other things, if I want.
>
> Jarod, can I suggest trying the softsqueeze player and adding that to
> your front ends and a having the squeezeserver on your backend.

One major problem with that approach: requires leaving the myth box on
all the time, which I've stopped doing. Why have such a power-hungry
system on 24/7 if it doesn't need to be? The power supply even on the
ASRock ION330 HT box I've got is 65W. The new AppleTV draws 6W. Heck,
I might get two of them, and replace the older one I already have,
just for the power savings. :)

--
Jarod Wilson
jarod [at] wilsonet
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