Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Users

World of pain migrating to "Storage Groups"

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krt at krt

Jul 9, 2010, 4:29 PM

Post #1 of 23 (1611 views)
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World of pain migrating to "Storage Groups"

G'day,

My MythWeb was simply giving me the response:

"Mythweb now requires the storage group Videos"

So i delved into the the database and gave it one:

mysql> select * from storagegroup;
+----+------------+----------+--------------------------------+
| id | groupname | hostname | dirname |
+----+------------+----------+--------------------------------+
| 1 | Default | mediabox | /home/kingsley/MythTV/ |
| 3 | LiveTV | mediabox | /home/kingsley/MythTV/LiveTV/ |
| 4 | DB Backups | mediabox | /home/kingsley/MythTV_Backups/ |
| 5 | Videos | mediabox | /home/kingsley/Video |
+----+------------+----------+--------------------------------+

So after doing this and checking the permissions of every video file, I
now get this:

Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 33554432 bytes exhausted (tried to
allocate 4096 bytes) in /usr/share/mythtv/mythweb/includes/translate.php
on line 142

I changed the memory limit in php.ini to 256M (from 128M), this didn't
seem to help. It does look like a ~30M is somehow being used too.

Also now a separate side-effect problem happened: In the front end
video browser, I have two new "top level" directories "video" and
"Videos". if the first one is selected it looks exactly the same as the
other, except you can't play anything. Selecting "Videos" works as per
normal. I guess "Videos" is the storage group, but I'm not sure where
"video" came from, and how can it see all the files, yet not play them??!

As far as I can understand, Storage Groups is to allow *Recordings* to
get placed on different drives. Any suggestions as to why all this
static-file stuff is now in a world of pain ?

The WAF score plummetted with that "video" folder thing where you
couldn't play anything, I can tell you. I got the whole "Why do you
have to keep tinkering with it" speech :( She never uses the MythWeb,
so it being broken wasn't a problem.

anyway ...

any sage advice ?

cheers,
-kt

raymond at wagnerrp

Jul 9, 2010, 4:42 PM

Post #2 of 23 (1583 views)
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Re: World of pain migrating to "Storage Groups" [In reply to]

On 7/9/2010 19:29, Kingsley Turner wrote:
> As far as I can understand, Storage Groups is to allow *Recordings* to
> get placed on different drives. Any suggestions as to why all this
> static-file stuff is now in a world of pain ?

Storage Groups are a way to provide distributed file access to all
things MythTV. You define the storage group on the backend, and restart
that backend. Now, anything that speaks myth protocol can access that
file anywhere on the network, without having to set up NFS or any other
network file share.

In 0.23, MythVideo now supports hashing of videos, meaning if you move
them around, MythVideo will find them and update their location in the
database, rather than create a new entry for which you need to download
metadata. If you are switching to storage groups, you must stop using
local file access in the frontend. Also, the file scanner in MythWeb is
broken, and should not be used.
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krt at krt

Jul 10, 2010, 1:45 PM

Post #3 of 23 (1553 views)
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Re: World of pain migrating to "Storage Groups" [In reply to]

On 10/07/10 09:42, Raymond Wagner wrote:
> On 7/9/2010 19:29, Kingsley Turner wrote:
>> As far as I can understand, Storage Groups is to allow *Recordings*
>> to get placed on different drives. Any suggestions as to why all
>> this static-file stuff is now in a world of pain ?
>
> In 0.23, MythVideo now supports hashing of videos, meaning if you move
> them around, MythVideo will find them and update their location in the
> database, rather than create a new entry for which you need to
> download metadata. If you are switching to storage groups, you must
> stop using local file access in the frontend. Also, the file scanner
> in MythWeb is broken, and should not be used.

So I just blank-out all these paths in the configuration, and Myth will
simply use the Storage groups table data ?

thanks,
-kt

kkuphal at gmail

Jul 11, 2010, 6:52 PM

Post #4 of 23 (1526 views)
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Re: World of pain migrating to "Storage Groups" [In reply to]

On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 6:29 PM, Kingsley Turner <krt [at] krt> wrote:

> G'day,
>
> My MythWeb was simply giving me the response:
>
> "Mythweb now requires the storage group Videos"
>
> So i delved into the the database and gave it one:
>
> mysql> select * from storagegroup;
> +----+------------+----------+--------------------------------+
> | id | groupname | hostname | dirname |
> +----+------------+----------+--------------------------------+
> | 1 | Default | mediabox | /home/kingsley/MythTV/ |
> | 3 | LiveTV | mediabox | /home/kingsley/MythTV/LiveTV/ |
> | 4 | DB Backups | mediabox | /home/kingsley/MythTV_Backups/ |
> | 5 | Videos | mediabox | /home/kingsley/Video |
> +----+------------+----------+--------------------------------+
>
> So after doing this and checking the permissions of every video file, I now
> get this:
>
> Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 33554432 bytes exhausted (tried to
> allocate 4096 bytes) in /usr/share/mythtv/mythweb/includes/translate.php on
> line 142
>
> I changed the memory limit in php.ini to 256M (from 128M), this didn't seem
> to help. It does look like a ~30M is somehow being used too.
>
> Also now a separate side-effect problem happened: In the front end video
> browser, I have two new "top level" directories "video" and "Videos". if
> the first one is selected it looks exactly the same as the other, except you
> can't play anything. Selecting "Videos" works as per normal. I guess
> "Videos" is the storage group, but I'm not sure where "video" came from,
> and how can it see all the files, yet not play them??!
>
> As far as I can understand, Storage Groups is to allow *Recordings* to get
> placed on different drives. Any suggestions as to why all this static-file
> stuff is now in a world of pain ?
>
> The WAF score plummetted with that "video" folder thing where you couldn't
> play anything, I can tell you. I got the whole "Why do you have to keep
> tinkering with it" speech :( She never uses the MythWeb, so it being
> broken wasn't a problem.
>

There's a good explanation of Storage Groups in MythVideo in the wiki

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mythvideo#Storage_Groups

<http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mythvideo#Storage_Groups>The simple answer is,
blank out the path in the frontend configuration and MythVideo will only use
the Storage Group folder defined on the backend (and thus simplifying the
frontend configuration in the long run)

Kevin

krt at krt

Jul 12, 2010, 3:46 PM

Post #5 of 23 (1506 views)
Permalink

Re: World of pain migrating to "Storage Groups" [In reply to]

On 12/07/10 11:52, Kevin Kuphal wrote:
> There's a good explanation of Storage Groups in MythVideo in the wiki
>
> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mythvideo#Storage_Groups
>
> The simple answer is, blank out the path in the frontend configuration
> and MythVideo will only use the Storage Group folder defined on the
> backend (and thus simplifying the frontend configuration in the long run)
>

Ok, I did this ... and now I can see everything correctly in MythWeb,
and in in the Myth Front end ... but I can't play anything in the front
end! It lists fine, finding the files and directories, etc. But
pressing [Play] just flashes black and comes back to the same screen
(like when you have a broken video file). Nothing is written to the
mythfrontend.log ???

it's a bit confusing. I do have mplayer configured as an external
player, and before making the change you suggested, static video played
fine.

cheers,
-kt

krt at krt

Jul 12, 2010, 5:38 PM

Post #6 of 23 (1504 views)
Permalink

Re: World of pain migrating to "Storage Groups" [In reply to]

On 13/07/10 08:46, Kingsley Turner wrote:
> On 12/07/10 11:52, Kevin Kuphal wrote:
>> There's a good explanation of Storage Groups in MythVideo in the wiki
>>
>> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mythvideo#Storage_Groups
>>
>> The simple answer is, blank out the path in the frontend
>> configuration and MythVideo will only use the Storage Group folder
>> defined on the backend (and thus simplifying the frontend
>> configuration in the long run)
>>
>
> Ok, I did this ... and now I can see everything correctly in MythWeb,
> and in in the Myth Front end ... but I can't play anything in the
> front end! It lists fine, finding the files and directories, etc.
> But pressing [Play] just flashes black and comes back to the same
> screen (like when you have a broken video file). Nothing is written
> to the
> mythfrontend.log ???
>
> it's a bit confusing. I do have mplayer configured as an external
> player, and before making the change you suggested, static video
> played fine.
>

Ah ... I needed to RTFM - "External Players DO NOT WORK with Storage
Groups."

So this is fixed, mostly.

Half my videos are still not showing up in MythWeb, I checked the
permissions, they seem identical to ones that do... Shrug. I'll do
some more debugging after work.

thanks,
-kt

gnassas at mac

Jul 12, 2010, 8:10 PM

Post #7 of 23 (1502 views)
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Re: World of pain migrating to "Storage Groups" [In reply to]

On 2010-07-12, at 8:38 PM, Kingsley Turner wrote:

> Ah ... I needed to RTFM - "External Players DO NOT WORK with Storage Groups."

Sure they do. External players get a relative path to the video so just wrap yours with a script that probes for the video in each of your SG directories and then passes the full path of the video.

- George

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raymond at wagnerrp

Jul 12, 2010, 9:38 PM

Post #8 of 23 (1487 views)
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Re: World of pain migrating to "Storage Groups" [In reply to]

On 7/12/2010 23:10, George Nassas wrote:
> On 2010-07-12, at 8:38 PM, Kingsley Turner wrote:
>
>> Ah ... I needed to RTFM - "External Players DO NOT WORK with Storage Groups."
>>
> External players get a relative path to the video so just wrap yours with a script that probes for the video in each of your SG directories and then passes the full path of the video.
>

Which only works when the content is available locally.
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gnassas at mac

Jul 13, 2010, 6:14 AM

Post #9 of 23 (1475 views)
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Re: World of pain migrating to "Storage Groups" [In reply to]

On 2010-07-13, at 12:38 AM, Raymond Wagner wrote:

> Which only works when the content is available locally.

So use an nfs automount.

Main point is it's doable and there's no need for all cap cries that it doesn't work in any way any time any how and if you even try your grandmother will fall and break her hip etc.

- George
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raymond at wagnerrp

Jul 13, 2010, 6:28 AM

Post #10 of 23 (1459 views)
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Re: World of pain migrating to "Storage Groups" [In reply to]

On 7/13/2010 09:14, George Nassas wrote:
> On 2010-07-13, at 12:38 AM, Raymond Wagner wrote:
>
>> Which only works when the content is available locally.
>>
> So use an nfs automount.
>
> Main point is it's doable and there's no need for all cap cries that it doesn't work in any way any time any how and if you even try your grandmother will fall and break her hip etc.
>

If you're just going to mount the stuff over NFS anyway, why even bother
with storage groups?
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hendryjh at gmail

Jul 13, 2010, 6:32 AM

Post #11 of 23 (1467 views)
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Re: World of pain migrating to "Storage Groups" [In reply to]

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 9:14 AM, George Nassas <gnassas [at] mac> wrote:

> On 2010-07-13, at 12:38 AM, Raymond Wagner wrote:
>
> > Which only works when the content is available locally.
>
> So use an nfs automount.
>
> Main point is it's doable and there's no need for all cap cries that it
> doesn't work in any way any time any how and if you even try your
> grandmother will fall and break her hip etc.
>
> - George
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

The documentation specifically states that external players do not work with
storage groups. Maybe the documentation should be updated since an end-user
could work around the current limitation with some script writing ability
and system administration knowledge to setup nfs.

Jim

joe at thefrys

Jul 13, 2010, 6:36 AM

Post #12 of 23 (1468 views)
Permalink

Re: World of pain migrating to "Storage Groups" [In reply to]

>
> Which only works when the content is available locally.
>>>
>>>
>> So use an nfs automount.
>>
>> Main point is it's doable and there's no need for all cap cries that it
>> doesn't work in any way any time any how and if you even try your
>> grandmother will fall and break her hip etc.
>>
>>
>
> If you're just going to mount the stuff over NFS anyway, why even bother
> with storage groups?

Because storage groups are the future of Mythtv and where all of the
development is happening?

I would love it if someone made a myth protocol virtual file system. So,
for example, I could mount my myth storage groups to a path on my system and
have all of it's content appear as though it were local. Seems like it
would be do-able (though I wouldn't have the first clue where to start
myself).

mythtv at derdev

Jul 13, 2010, 12:07 PM

Post #13 of 23 (1460 views)
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Re: World of pain migrating to "Storage Groups" [In reply to]

On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 09:36:28 -0400, Joseph Fry <joe [at] thefrys> wrote:
>>
>> Which only works when the content is available locally.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> So use an nfs automount.
>>>
>>> Main point is it's doable and there's no need for all cap cries that
it
>>> doesn't work in any way any time any how and if you even try your
>>> grandmother will fall and break her hip etc.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> If you're just going to mount the stuff over NFS anyway, why even
bother
>> with storage groups?
>
>
> Because storage groups are the future of Mythtv and where all of the
> development is happening?
>
> I would love it if someone made a myth protocol virtual file system.
So,
> for example, I could mount my myth storage groups to a path on my system
> and
> have all of it's content appear as though it were local. Seems like it
> would be do-able (though I wouldn't have the first clue where to start
> myself).

To connect to my NAS for my dedicated BE and FEs - should work for any
network shared folders (NFS, SMB)

On each FE I create folder /shares/ and then use symbolic links

/shares/movies -> /mnt/nas/movies
/shares/music -> /mnt/nas/music
/shares/pics -> /some/network/or/local/folder
....etc....

Then I configure the BE/FEs to use the folders in /shares/ for content.
Thus the configuration is simple and repeatable. The configuration also
isn't concerned whether the details in /etc/fstab/ change for the
mount/share.

HTH.

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krt at krt

Jul 13, 2010, 2:06 PM

Post #14 of 23 (1440 views)
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Re: World of pain migrating to "Storage Groups" [In reply to]

On 13/07/10 23:14, George Nassas wrote:
> On 2010-07-13, at 12:38 AM, Raymond Wagner wrote:
>
>> Which only works when the content is available locally.
>>
> So use an nfs automount.
>
> Main point is it's doable and there's no need for all cap cries that it doesn't work in any way any time any how and if you even try your grandmother will fall and break her hip etc.
>
My capitals reflected the BOLD text I paraphrased from:
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mythvideo#Storage_Groups

<quote>
External Video Players (mplayer, xine, VLC) will *not work* with videos
hosted on an SG.
</quote>

So ... my apologies for breaking your grandmothers hip with upper-case.

Perhaps you could share your NFS automount solution with the wiki ?

cheers,
-kt

gnassas at mac

Jul 13, 2010, 6:51 PM

Post #15 of 23 (1443 views)
Permalink

Re: World of pain migrating to "Storage Groups" [In reply to]

On 2010-07-13, at 9:28 AM, Raymond Wagner wrote:

> If you're just going to mount the stuff over NFS anyway, why even bother with storage groups?

Because different systems mount disks in different places and windows likes drive letters which nobody else gets along with. It can be hard to have one path that works for everybody.

- George

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ryan.goat at gmail

Jul 14, 2010, 4:15 AM

Post #16 of 23 (1419 views)
Permalink

Re: World of pain migrating to "Storage Groups" [In reply to]

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 5:06 PM, Kingsley Turner <krt [at] krt> wrote:
> My capitals reflected the BOLD text I paraphrased from:
> �� http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mythvideo#Storage_Groups
>
> <quote>
> External Video Players (mplayer, xine, VLC) will not work with videos hosted
> on an SG.
> </quote>
>
> So ... my apologies for breaking your grandmothers hip with upper-case.
>
> Perhaps you could share your NFS automount solution with the wiki ?

Kingsley,

Please stop embedding HTML in your e-mails to the list. In short it
is against the rules and is HUGELY annoying.

-Ryan
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joe at thefrys

Jul 14, 2010, 9:15 AM

Post #17 of 23 (1396 views)
Permalink

Re: World of pain migrating to "Storage Groups" [In reply to]

>
>
> > I would love it if someone made a myth protocol virtual file system.
> So,
> > for example, I could mount my myth storage groups to a path on my system
> > and
> > have all of it's content appear as though it were local. Seems like it
> > would be do-able (though I wouldn't have the first clue where to start
> > myself).
>
> To connect to my NAS for my dedicated BE and FEs - should work for any
> network shared folders (NFS, SMB)
>
> On each FE I create folder /shares/ and then use symbolic links
>
> /shares/movies -> /mnt/nas/movies
> /shares/music -> /mnt/nas/music
> /shares/pics -> /some/network/or/local/folder
> ....etc....
>
> Then I configure the BE/FEs to use the folders in /shares/ for content.
> Thus the configuration is simple and repeatable. The configuration also
> isn't concerned whether the details in /etc/fstab/ change for the
> mount/share.
>
> HTH.

Not exactly what I had in mind. Using SMB or NFS is all fine and dandy, if
you want to set it up. But then you need to NOT use storage groups and use
local paths for all videos... which is not ideal.

What I would like to see is a myth:// based file system that uses the myth
protocol to mount the available storage groups on the local system. I am
not sure how the myth protocol works currently, or how this would be
accomplished, but I'm sure it could be made to work, though I suspect that
the protocol would need to be updated to present the video as a file rather
than a stream.

gnassas at mac

Jul 14, 2010, 10:14 AM

Post #18 of 23 (1392 views)
Permalink

Re: World of pain migrating to "Storage Groups" [In reply to]

On 2010-07-14, at 12:15 PM, Joseph Fry wrote:

> Using SMB or NFS is all fine and dandy, if you want to set it up. But then you need to NOT use storage groups and use local paths for all videos... which is not ideal.

Why do you need to NOT use storage groups? For each FE the local mount points become the entries in that machine's Videos storage group, the database stores relative paths which work across all machines and everybody is happy. That's how I see it anyway.

A few years back (like maybe 5) there were discussions about streaming vs local mounting and I think people found local mounts won out over streaming decisively. Things may have changed or my memory might be failing me but I've always looked at myth streaming as the second class solution.

- George
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gnassas at mac

Jul 14, 2010, 10:54 AM

Post #19 of 23 (1385 views)
Permalink

Re: World of pain migrating to "Storage Groups" [In reply to]

On 2010-07-13, at 5:06 PM, Kingsley Turner wrote:

> Perhaps you could share your NFS automount solution with the wiki ?

I don't need or use auto mounts, it was a response to that fellow. I do however use a script that probes my drives using the relative path myth gives to external scripts. When I'm near my mythbox again I'll see about posting something sensible to the wiki.

- George

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raymond at wagnerrp

Jul 14, 2010, 11:05 AM

Post #20 of 23 (1386 views)
Permalink

Re: World of pain migrating to "Storage Groups" [In reply to]

On 7/14/2010 13:14, George Nassas wrote:
> A few years back (like maybe 5) there were discussions about streaming vs local mounting and I think people found local mounts won out over streaming decisively. Things may have changed or my memory might be failing me but I've always looked at myth streaming as the second class solution.
>

From a performance standpoint, NFS built into the kernel beats out
mythprotocol. That's why recordings will only be made to the local
filesystem, and diskless backends cannot record to a remote storage group.

From an ease of use standpoint, mythprotocol streaming wins hands
down. You can add new clients at will, and they are instantly capable
of accessing any content you have on your mythtv install. A couple
months ago, I was playing with mythprotocol and managed around 45MB/s
off the disk, through the backend, and across my network to a custom
client written in python socket code. It's plenty capable for an
application where the most you will ever see is the 5MB/s of a Bluray video.
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robert.mcnamara at gmail

Jul 14, 2010, 11:25 AM

Post #21 of 23 (1384 views)
Permalink

Re: World of pain migrating to "Storage Groups" [In reply to]

On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 10:54 AM, George Nassas <gnassas [at] mac> wrote:
> On 2010-07-13, at 5:06 PM, Kingsley Turner wrote:
>
>> Perhaps you could share your NFS automount solution with the wiki ?
>
> I don't need or use auto mounts, it was a response to that fellow. I do however use a script that probes my drives using the relative path myth gives to external scripts. When I'm near my mythbox again I'll see about posting something sensible to the wiki.
>
> - George

If you do, please post it to a secondary page and link it from the
"unsupported" part at the bottom of the MythVideo page. I try to
maintain the MythVideo page as official docs and that kind of thing is
not something that it is easy for me to provide official support for.

Robert
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joe at thefrys

Jul 14, 2010, 3:07 PM

Post #22 of 23 (1369 views)
Permalink

Re: World of pain migrating to "Storage Groups" [In reply to]

>
> A few years back (like maybe 5) there were discussions about streaming vs
>> local mounting and I think people found local mounts won out over streaming
>> decisively. Things may have changed or my memory might be failing me but
>> I've always looked at myth streaming as the second class solution.
>>
>>
>
> From a performance standpoint, NFS built into the kernel beats out
> mythprotocol. That's why recordings will only be made to the local
> filesystem, and diskless backends cannot record to a remote storage group.
>
> From an ease of use standpoint, mythprotocol streaming wins hands down.
> You can add new clients at will, and they are instantly capable of
> accessing any content you have on your mythtv install. A couple months ago,
> I was playing with mythprotocol and managed around 45MB/s off the disk,
> through the backend, and across my network to a custom client written in
> python socket code. It's plenty capable for an application where the most
> you will ever see is the 5MB/s of a Bluray video.

This is what I like about the mythprotocol implementation... if only it
supported .iso and external players. So now, on all of our frontends I must
configure NFS... which is mostly painless but not entirely trivial either.

Robert... since you have knowledge of the internal workings of the
mythprotocol, can you comment on how difficult it would be to create a
filesystem implementation of it. Or just a single file "frameserver" for
lack of a better term, that would allow an external application to read from
a local "file" that is actually a stream from the server.

I imagine it could be done with FUSE. Looking over
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-fuse/ it doesn't look
impossible (though I certainly couldn't do it). You would need to make FUSE
read() commands issue a mythprotocol QWERY_FILETRANSFER command and return
the result for example.

I wish I had some real programming skillz.

raymond at wagnerrp

Jul 14, 2010, 3:30 PM

Post #23 of 23 (1372 views)
Permalink

Re: World of pain migrating to "Storage Groups" [In reply to]

On 7/14/2010 18:07, Joseph Fry wrote:
> This is what I like about the mythprotocol implementation... if only
> it supported .iso and external players.

Myth protocol supports both of those just fine. It's merely a file
access system. The problem is the DVD handling library, and external
players, do not speak myth protocol. You've got a couple options for
that. You could launch the non-compliant code in such a manner that you
override the default file access routines with ones that support myth
protocol. You could set up some sort of virtual file system through a
kernel module or FUSE application. You could rewrite the external code
such that it supports myth protocol natively.

> Raymond... since you have knowledge of the internal workings of the
> mythprotocol, can you comment on how difficult it would be to create a
> filesystem implementation of it.

The python bindings currently have support for 'file-like' access to
content over myth protocol. It would be fairly simple to write a PyFUSE
application to produce a virtual filesystem to access the content. Such
a program currently exists on the wiki, as well as the contrib directory
in 0.23, and was intended as an alternative to mythlink.pl that did not
need file access.

Note that it is not a simple procedure to make FUSE or any other virtual
file system mountable by a not-root user. As such, no such solution
could ever be considered official, and implemented in MythTV.
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