Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Users

USB over IP

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jraymyth at gmail

Apr 1, 2010, 12:06 PM

Post #1 of 22 (1587 views)
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USB over IP

I am getting to great a concentration of devices in my media center and am
attempting to decentralize. Has any one tried to use the hvr-1900 or pvrusb2
over a USB network server? Like the keyspan us-4a or the Belkin USB hub?

raymond at wagnerrp

Apr 1, 2010, 12:24 PM

Post #2 of 22 (1555 views)
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Re: USB over IP [In reply to]

On 4/1/2010 15:06, jr wrote:
>
> I am getting to great a concentration of devices in my media center
> and am attempting to decentralize. Has any one tried to use the
> hvr-1900 or pvrusb2 over a USB network server? Like the keyspan us-4a
> or the Belkin USB hub?
>

MythTV already performs this function. Just attach the tuners to a
second computer, and run the backend on it.
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joe at thefrys

Apr 1, 2010, 12:40 PM

Post #3 of 22 (1551 views)
Permalink

Re: USB over IP [In reply to]

>
>> I am getting to great a concentration of devices in my media center and am
>> attempting to decentralize. Has any one tried to use the hvr-1900 or pvrusb2
>> over a USB network server? Like the keyspan us-4a or the Belkin USB hub?
>>
>>
> MythTV already performs this function. Just attach the tuners to a second
> computer, and run the backend on it.
>
>
>
Ha ha ha... $100 keyspan running off a wallwart... vs a pc with software to
maintain and moving parts to fail. While I agree that it's nice to be able
to extend the system by adding backends, it's not always the best method.

If the key span works I might invest in one. It would allow me to put my
USB tuners as close to the antenna as possible and run cat5 to my server...
much like I do now with my HDHR.

pickle136 at sbcglobal

Apr 1, 2010, 12:48 PM

Post #4 of 22 (1578 views)
Permalink

Re: USB over IP [In reply to]

On 4/1/2010 3:06 PM, jr wrote:
> keyspan us-4a
http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtModelID=3913

*Are there any plans to support the USB Server (US-4A)/4-Port Print
Server (PS-4A) on Linux? Do you know when (or if) you are planning on
having a Linux driver for the USB Server (US-4A)/4-Port Print Server
(PS-4A)?*
At the moment, the USB Server (US-4A)/4-Port Print Server (PS-4A) is
only supported on Mac OS X and Windows platforms. Linux support is
not currently planned

raymond at wagnerrp

Apr 1, 2010, 12:59 PM

Post #5 of 22 (1556 views)
Permalink

Re: USB over IP [In reply to]

On 4/1/2010 15:40, Joseph Fry wrote:
>
>
> I am getting to great a concentration of devices in my media
> center and am attempting to decentralize. Has any one tried to
> use the hvr-1900 or pvrusb2 over a USB network server? Like
> the keyspan us-4a or the Belkin USB hub?
>
>
> MythTV already performs this function. Just attach the tuners to
> a second computer, and run the backend on it.
>
> Ha ha ha... $100 keyspan running off a wallwart... vs a pc with
> software to maintain and moving parts to fail. While I agree that
> it's nice to be able to extend the system by adding backends, it's not
> always the best method.

For $100, you would be much better off buying a SheevaPlug, and building
some stripped down install for its 512MB of flash. I would never
suggest putting your SQL server, and MBE on there, but it should do fine
as an SBE with USB tuners.

jraymyth at gmail

Apr 1, 2010, 4:29 PM

Post #6 of 22 (1535 views)
Permalink

Re: USB over IP [In reply to]

On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Raymond Wagner <raymond [at] wagnerrp> wrote:
> On 4/1/2010 15:40, Joseph Fry wrote:
>>>
>>> I am getting to great a concentration of devices in my media center and
>>> am attempting to decentralize. Has any one tried to use the hvr-1900 or
>>> pvrusb2 over a USB network server? Like the keyspan us-4a or the Belkin USB
>>> hub?
>>>
>>
>> MythTV already performs this function. �Just attach the tuners to a second
>> computer, and run the backend on it.
>>
>
> Ha ha ha... $100 keyspan running off a wallwart... vs a pc with software to
> maintain and moving parts to fail.� While I agree that it's nice to be able
> to extend the system by adding backends, it's not always the best method.
>
> For $100, you would be much better off buying a SheevaPlug, and building
> some stripped down install for its 512MB of flash.� I would never suggest
> putting your SQL server, and MBE on there, but it should do fine as an SBE
> with USB tuners.
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>

Holy cats, Joseph! I had completely forgotten about SheevaPlug.
Thanks for the nudge.
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mikep at randomtraveller

Apr 2, 2010, 5:03 AM

Post #7 of 22 (1514 views)
Permalink

Re: USB over IP [In reply to]

Joseph Fry wrote:
>>> I am getting to great a concentration of devices in my media center and am
>>> attempting to decentralize. Has any one tried to use the hvr-1900 or pvrusb2
>>> over a USB network server? Like the keyspan us-4a or the Belkin USB hub?
>>>
>>>
>> MythTV already performs this function. Just attach the tuners to a second
>> computer, and run the backend on it.
>>
>>
>>
> Ha ha ha... $100 keyspan running off a wallwart... vs a pc with software to
> maintain and moving parts to fail. While I agree that it's nice to be able
> to extend the system by adding backends, it's not always the best method.
>
Eh? Put minimyth on a network-bootable mini-itx motherboard (or similar) and
plug into that. It supports slave tuners. No moving parts. Small. Low power.
Silent. Can be hidden out of sight if required.

--

Mike Perkins

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jedi at mishnet

Apr 2, 2010, 8:43 AM

Post #8 of 22 (1503 views)
Permalink

Re: USB over IP [In reply to]

On Thu, Apr 01, 2010 at 03:59:51PM -0400, Raymond Wagner wrote:
> On 4/1/2010 15:40, Joseph Fry wrote:
> >
> >
> > I am getting to great a concentration of devices in my media
> > center and am attempting to decentralize. Has any one tried to
> > use the hvr-1900 or pvrusb2 over a USB network server? Like
> > the keyspan us-4a or the Belkin USB hub?
> >
> >
> > MythTV already performs this function. Just attach the tuners to
> > a second computer, and run the backend on it.
> >
> >Ha ha ha... $100 keyspan running off a wallwart... vs a pc with
> >software to maintain and moving parts to fail. While I agree that
> >it's nice to be able to extend the system by adding backends, it's
> >not always the best method.
>
> For $100, you would be much better off buying a SheevaPlug, and
> building some stripped down install for its 512MB of flash. I would
> never suggest putting your SQL server, and MBE on there, but it
> should do fine as an SBE with USB tuners.

Even a Revo would probably be a better option. The idea that it will
somehow "go poof" before the walwart will is a bit hysterical. Unless you
are specifically courting disaster with 1.5TB Seagate drives, there's no
reason to not expect the PC to outlast the USB devices attached to it.

[deletia]

My backend boxes chug along until there is a reason to upgrade MythTV
itself. They're Unix boxes. So the idea that they need to be fussed over
is a bit silly.

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jedi at mishnet

Apr 2, 2010, 8:47 AM

Post #9 of 22 (1507 views)
Permalink

Re: USB over IP [In reply to]

On Fri, Apr 02, 2010 at 01:03:25PM +0100, Mike Perkins wrote:
> Joseph Fry wrote:
> >>>I am getting to great a concentration of devices in my media center and am
> >>>attempting to decentralize. Has any one tried to use the hvr-1900 or pvrusb2
> >>>over a USB network server? Like the keyspan us-4a or the Belkin USB hub?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>MythTV already performs this function. Just attach the tuners to a second
> >>computer, and run the backend on it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >Ha ha ha... $100 keyspan running off a wallwart... vs a pc with software to
> >maintain and moving parts to fail. While I agree that it's nice to be able
> >to extend the system by adding backends, it's not always the best method.
> >
> Eh? Put minimyth on a network-bootable mini-itx motherboard (or
> similar) and plug into that. It supports slave tuners. No moving
> parts. Small. Low power. Silent. Can be hidden out of sight if
> required.

...yeah but is that going to be cost effective though. I suspect not.
All of the "no moving parts" options seem to be more expensive. I
would love to be wrong though...

[deletia]
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richard.e.morton at gmail

Apr 2, 2010, 8:51 AM

Post #10 of 22 (1504 views)
Permalink

Re: USB over IP [In reply to]

> Unless you
> are specifically courting disaster with 1.5TB Seagate drives, there's no
> reason to not expect the PC to outlast the USB devices attached to it.
>

erm... like I recently noticed; my Seagate 1.5GB drive is affected and
needs a firmware update... ahhh.

The reports I read indicated it was just 500GB-1TB drives that were
affected....

Anyway; just burnt the firmware update to a CD; but like I have a
spare 1.5TB of space for a ful backup... yeah; that's likely for most
people... it'll be update & pray.

R
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joe at thefrys

Apr 2, 2010, 9:59 AM

Post #11 of 22 (1504 views)
Permalink

Re: USB over IP [In reply to]

>
> Even a Revo would probably be a better option. The idea that it will
> somehow "go poof" before the walwart will is a bit hysterical.
>
Was talking more about power use than reliability of the power supply.

>
> My backend boxes chug along until there is a reason to upgrade MythTV
> itself. They're Unix boxes. So the idea that they need to be fussed over
> is a bit silly.
>

And while I realize that upgrading one backend vs two is not a terribly more
difficult task, it does increase the labor and potential issues involved.

If you had a choice between putting say 8 USB tuners on one backend or
building a second backend because you only have 4 USB ports... wouldn't you
choose to only run one? This is assuming of course you are not gaining any
other advantage by having two backends, as the OP did not suggest he had any
concerns about the ability of his backend to support more tuners.

francesco at fampeeters

Apr 2, 2010, 10:13 AM

Post #12 of 22 (1506 views)
Permalink

Re: USB over IP [In reply to]

On 4/2/10 17:47 , jedi wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 02, 2010 at 01:03:25PM +0100, Mike Perkins wrote:
>
>> Joseph Fry wrote:
>>
>>>>> I am getting to great a concentration of devices in my media center and am
>>>>> attempting to decentralize. Has any one tried to use the hvr-1900 or pvrusb2
>>>>> over a USB network server? Like the keyspan us-4a or the Belkin USB hub?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> MythTV already performs this function. Just attach the tuners to a second
>>>> computer, and run the backend on it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Ha ha ha... $100 keyspan running off a wallwart... vs a pc with software to
>>> maintain and moving parts to fail. While I agree that it's nice to be able
>>> to extend the system by adding backends, it's not always the best method.
>>>
>>>
>> Eh? Put minimyth on a network-bootable mini-itx motherboard (or
>> similar) and plug into that. It supports slave tuners. No moving
>> parts. Small. Low power. Silent. Can be hidden out of sight if
>> required.
>>
> ...yeah but is that going to be cost effective though. I suspect not.
> All of the "no moving parts" options seem to be more expensive. I
> would love to be wrong though...
>

*Looks at his $75 net-booting Atom mini-ITX PC*

ehrmmm... why more expensive?
--
Francesco Peeters
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bogstad at pobox

Apr 2, 2010, 10:22 AM

Post #13 of 22 (1486 views)
Permalink

Re: USB over IP [In reply to]

On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Joseph Fry <joe [at] thefrys> wrote:
>...
> If you had a choice between putting say�8 USB tuners on one backend� or
> building a second backend because you only have 4 USB ports... wouldn't you
> choose to only run one?� This is assuming of course you are not gaining any
> other advantage by having two backends, as the OP did not suggest he had any
> concerns about the ability of his backend to support more tuners.

If sufficiently beefy your second backend could be your hot spare in
case of hardware failure. With religious backups of your database and
some scripting, you could get your restoration of service time to a
few minutes. Get 5 nines (99.999%) WAF. :-)

Bill Bogstad
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jedi at mishnet

Apr 2, 2010, 10:25 AM

Post #14 of 22 (1489 views)
Permalink

Re: USB over IP [In reply to]

On Fri, Apr 02, 2010 at 12:59:10PM -0400, Joseph Fry wrote:
> >
> > Even a Revo would probably be a better option. The idea that it will
> > somehow "go poof" before the walwart will is a bit hysterical.
> >
> Was talking more about power use than reliability of the power supply.
>
>
> >
> > My backend boxes chug along until there is a reason to upgrade MythTV
> > itself. They're Unix boxes. So the idea that they need to be fussed over
> > is a bit silly.
> >
>
> And while I realize that upgrading one backend vs two is not a terribly more
> difficult task, it does increase the labor and potential issues involved.
>
> If you had a choice between putting say 8 USB tuners on one backend or
> building a second backend because you only have 4 USB ports... wouldn't you
> choose to only run one? This is assuming of course you are not gaining any

Nope.

That's too many tuners for one system. Even if you don't have to worry
about strange USB repeater devices, you're still overloading a single box
and making it a single point of failure.

I have already rejected that idea. It's not just a hypothetical for me.

[deletia]

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bogstad at pobox

Apr 2, 2010, 10:26 AM

Post #15 of 22 (1486 views)
Permalink

Re: USB over IP [In reply to]

On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Francesco Peeters
<francesco [at] fampeeters> wrote:
>
> *Looks at his $75 net-booting Atom mini-ITX PC*
>
> ehrmmm... why more expensive?

Did that include the memory? Case? Power supply? I built a
net-booting Zotac ION ITX based frontend recently and
even with junk box memory it cost me around $160. If you can point me
towards complete boxes for $75, I'm VERY
interested.

Bill Bogstad
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mikep at randomtraveller

Apr 2, 2010, 10:26 AM

Post #16 of 22 (1491 views)
Permalink

Re: USB over IP [In reply to]

Joseph Fry wrote:
>
> And while I realize that upgrading one backend vs two is not a terribly more
> difficult task, it does increase the labor and potential issues involved.
>
> If you had a choice between putting say 8 USB tuners on one backend or
> building a second backend because you only have 4 USB ports... wouldn't you
> choose to only run one? This is assuming of course you are not gaining any
> other advantage by having two backends, as the OP did not suggest he had any
> concerns about the ability of his backend to support more tuners.
>
8 USB tuners hitting one back end? That's got to be a big, beefy back end to
handle all the buffering and simultaneous writing to disk. Not to mention,
powering 8 tuners 24/7 when you probably only need a couple up most of the time.

Apart from the I/O matter I suspect it's a matter of when you want to spend
money. Do you want to throw regular cash at your power company, or do you want
to spend a capital amount once to build a second/third backend which will only
be powered on when you actually need it? It's capital vs running costs.

Needless to say, I run multiple backends and frontends, but then I'm an old
ex-IT geek who is comfortable maintaining my own installation. YMMV.

--

Mike Perkins

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jedi at mishnet

Apr 2, 2010, 10:40 AM

Post #17 of 22 (1488 views)
Permalink

Re: USB over IP [In reply to]

On Fri, Apr 02, 2010 at 01:22:26PM -0400, Bill Bogstad wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Joseph Fry <joe [at] thefrys> wrote:
> >...
> > If you had a choice between putting say�8 USB tuners on one backend� or
> > building a second backend because you only have 4 USB ports... wouldn't you
> > choose to only run one?� This is assuming of course you are not gaining any
> > other advantage by having two backends, as the OP did not suggest he had any
> > concerns about the ability of his backend to support more tuners.
>
> If sufficiently beefy your second backend could be your hot spare in
> case of hardware failure. With religious backups of your database and
> some scripting, you could get your restoration of service time to a
> few minutes. Get 5 nines (99.999%) WAF. :-)

I use the extra space on my frontend and backend boxes for all manner
of backups. With even a Revo you will end up with over 100G of free space
since Linux and MythTV take up so little.

Cable boxes give me more trouble than Linux PCs.
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francesco at fampeeters

Apr 2, 2010, 10:57 AM

Post #18 of 22 (1485 views)
Permalink

Re: USB over IP [In reply to]

On 4/2/10 19:26 , Bill Bogstad wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Francesco Peeters
> <francesco [at] fampeeters> wrote:
>
>> *Looks at his $75 net-booting Atom mini-ITX PC*
>>
>> ehrmmm... why more expensive?
>>
> Did that include the memory? Case? Power supply? I built a
> net-booting Zotac ION ITX based frontend recently and
> even with junk box memory it cost me around $160. If you can point me
> towards complete boxes for $75, I'm VERY
> interested.
>
> Bill Bogstad
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
Intel Atom mobo and 2G memory at Fry's with cashback on a special,
re-using old PSU & case...
--
Francesco
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beww at beww

Apr 2, 2010, 10:58 AM

Post #19 of 22 (1485 views)
Permalink

Re: USB over IP [In reply to]

On Friday 02 April 2010 11:40:58 am jedi wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 02, 2010 at 01:22:26PM -0400, Bill Bogstad wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Joseph Fry <joe [at] thefrys> wrote:
> > >...
> > > If you had a choice between putting say 8 USB tuners on one backend or
> > > building a second backend because you only have 4 USB ports... wouldn't
> > > you choose to only run one? This is assuming of course you are not
> > > gaining any other advantage by having two backends, as the OP did not
> > > suggest he had any concerns about the ability of his backend to support
> > > more tuners.
> >
> > If sufficiently beefy your second backend could be your hot spare in
> > case of hardware failure. With religious backups of your database and
> > some scripting, you could get your restoration of service time to a
> > few minutes. Get 5 nines (99.999%) WAF. :-)
>
> I use the extra space on my frontend and backend boxes for all manner
> of backups. With even a Revo you will end up with over 100G of free space
> since Linux and MythTV take up so little.

That's on a very slow 2.5" drive, and may not be the best place to store
video, but for some backups it might be OK, if you trust those little drives.

>
> Cable boxes give me more trouble than Linux PCs.

Most STBs actually run Linux.
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jedi at mishnet

Apr 4, 2010, 7:46 AM

Post #20 of 22 (1372 views)
Permalink

Re: USB over IP [In reply to]

On Fri, Apr 02, 2010 at 11:58:05AM -0600, Brian Wood wrote:
> On Friday 02 April 2010 11:40:58 am jedi wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 02, 2010 at 01:22:26PM -0400, Bill Bogstad wrote:
> > > On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Joseph Fry <joe [at] thefrys> wrote:
> > > >...
> > > > If you had a choice between putting say 8 USB tuners on one backend or
> > > > building a second backend because you only have 4 USB ports... wouldn't
> > > > you choose to only run one? This is assuming of course you are not
> > > > gaining any other advantage by having two backends, as the OP did not
> > > > suggest he had any concerns about the ability of his backend to support
> > > > more tuners.
> > >
> > > If sufficiently beefy your second backend could be your hot spare in
> > > case of hardware failure. With religious backups of your database and
> > > some scripting, you could get your restoration of service time to a
> > > few minutes. Get 5 nines (99.999%) WAF. :-)
> >
> > I use the extra space on my frontend and backend boxes for all manner
> > of backups. With even a Revo you will end up with over 100G of free space
> > since Linux and MythTV take up so little.
>
> That's on a very slow 2.5" drive, and may not be the best place to store
> video, but for some backups it might be OK, if you trust those little drives.

I've seen those little drives outlast the laptops they came with. So those
little drives aren't necessarily a problem. The fact that whatever I am backing
up can be cloned n+1 times is the really interesting part.

[deletia]

The bigger larger drives seem to have all of the interesting problems these
days.
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beww at beww

Apr 4, 2010, 8:04 AM

Post #21 of 22 (1373 views)
Permalink

Re: USB over IP [In reply to]

On Sunday 04 April 2010 08:46:53 am jedi wrote:

> > > I use the extra space on my frontend and backend boxes for all
> > > manner of backups. With even a Revo you will end up with over 100G of
> > > free space since Linux and MythTV take up so little.
> >
> > That's on a very slow 2.5" drive, and may not be the best place to store
> > video, but for some backups it might be OK, if you trust those little
> > drives.
>
> I've seen those little drives outlast the laptops they came with. So
> those little drives aren't necessarily a problem. The fact that whatever I
> am backing up can be cloned n+1 times is the really interesting part.
>
True, the laptop type drives do seem to be reliable and last a long time, but
their performance is vastly inferior to 3.5" units. I was just meaning to say
that if you're using them for video storage, especially HD when using
multiple streams, they can become a bottleneck. I certainly wouldn't put the
database on one.

I have 2.5" drives that are over 10 years old that still work fine, slow but
steady. In fact, I don't think I have ever had a 2.5" drive fail on me.

>
> The bigger larger drives seem to have all of the interesting problems
> these days.

That's the truth. I have a Seagate and a WD, both of which need firmware
updates, something the manufacturer doesn't make easy, especially if you don't
have a Windows machine around.
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linux at thehobsons

Apr 4, 2010, 9:19 AM

Post #22 of 22 (1373 views)
Permalink

Re: USB over IP [In reply to]

Brian Wood wrote:

>I have 2.5" drives that are over 10 years old that still work fine, slow but
>steady. In fact, I don't think I have ever had a 2.5" drive fail on me.

If you're feeling left out, I can send you some of mine ;-) - I think
I've got four at the moment, but we've loads more at work.

--
Simon Hobson

Visit http://www.magpiesnestpublishing.co.uk/ for books by acclaimed
author Gladys Hobson. Novels - poetry - short stories - ideal as
Christmas stocking fillers. Some available as e-books.
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