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ananolg tuner recommendations

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mythlist at bossung

Jan 19, 2010, 11:48 AM

Post #1 of 13 (1348 views)
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ananolg tuner recommendations

I have a friend looking for 4 analog tuners. Preferably in 2-tuner
cards. In the past I would have said the pvr500 as that is what I have
experience with. Since this is no longer available via retail (only ebay
etc) can someone recommend a PCI based dual tuner card? Or a single
tuner PCI analog equivilent?

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drescherjm at gmail

Jan 19, 2010, 11:52 AM

Post #2 of 13 (1326 views)
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Re: ananolg tuner recommendations [In reply to]

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Don B <mythlist [at] bossung> wrote:
> I have a friend looking for 4 analog tuners. Preferably in 2-tuner
> cards. In the past I would have said the pvr500 as that is what I have
> experience with. Since this is no longer available via retail (only ebay
> etc) can someone recommend a PCI based dual tuner card? Or a single
> tuner PCI analog equivilent?
>

I thought the FCC banned the sale of analog only tuners.

John
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dliana.mythtv at gmail

Jan 19, 2010, 11:53 AM

Post #3 of 13 (1318 views)
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Re: ananolg tuner recommendations [In reply to]

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Don B <mythlist [at] bossung> wrote:

> I have a friend looking for 4 analog tuners. Preferably in 2-tuner
> cards. In the past I would have said the pvr500 as that is what I have
> experience with. Since this is no longer available via retail (only ebay
> etc) can someone recommend a PCI based dual tuner card? Or a single
> tuner PCI analog equivilent?
>
> I've had good experience with the Hauppage HVR-1600

junk_inbox at verizon

Jan 19, 2010, 12:49 PM

Post #4 of 13 (1321 views)
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Re: ananolg tuner recommendations [In reply to]

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 2:52 PM, John Drescher <drescherjm [at] gmail> wrote:

>
> I thought the FCC banned the sale of analog only tuners.
>
> John

Well, they didn't ban the sale of Analog-only tuners, they banned the
manufacture and distribution of new analog-only devices from what I read in
the documentation:

"As of March 1, 2007, FCC rules prohibit manufacturers and other responsible
parties (as
defined in the FCC rules) from manufacturing, importing or distributing
devices with
broadcast television equipment that have only an analog tuner and do not
have a digital tuner.
However, retailers may continue to sell analog-only television equipment
from existing
inventory."

So, if there are still retailers with analog-tuners in stock, it's still
legal for them to sell them. (And I gather they must also have the FCC
"Consumer Alert" warning label present.)

That being said, they *are* harder to find now since virtually nobody seems
to have them in stock anymore.

J-e-f-f-A

bkamen at benjammin

Jan 19, 2010, 1:44 PM

Post #5 of 13 (1314 views)
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Re: ananolg tuner recommendations [In reply to]

On 1/19/2010 2:49 PM, Jeff wrote:
>
> So, if there are still retailers with analog-tuners in stock, it's still
> legal for them to sell them. (And I gather they must also have the FCC
> "Consumer Alert" warning label present.)

And I read on a lawyer firm's website (that specializes in FCC actions) a summary of
FCC actions against companies for the last 3 years.

They pounded hard on the big box stores for not having those stickers on product after the date mentioned.

Radio Shack, Best Buy, Circuit City (I think). Big retailers. Kinda of amusing.

-Ben
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beww at beww

Jan 19, 2010, 1:57 PM

Post #6 of 13 (1318 views)
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Re: ananolg tuner recommendations [In reply to]

On Tuesday 19 January 2010 02:44:10 pm Ben Kamen wrote:
> On 1/19/2010 2:49 PM, Jeff wrote:
> > So, if there are still retailers with analog-tuners in stock, it's still
> > legal for them to sell them. (And I gather they must also have the FCC
> > "Consumer Alert" warning label present.)
>
> And I read on a lawyer firm's website (that specializes in FCC actions) a
> summary of FCC actions against companies for the last 3 years.
>
> They pounded hard on the big box stores for not having those stickers on
> product after the date mentioned.
>
> Radio Shack, Best Buy, Circuit City (I think). Big retailers. Kinda of
> amusing.

Circuit City doesn't have stickers on much of anything these days.

Seems like the FCC should have better things to do.
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fairlane at springcom

Jan 19, 2010, 2:46 PM

Post #7 of 13 (1316 views)
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Re: ananolg tuner recommendations [In reply to]

Be careful whatever analog card you do end up putting in your backend.
Not very many of the current offerings have hardware compression like
the old
PVR-250/350s did. I just put a couple of Pinnacle 800i HD cards in my
new backend, which are capable of analog capture, as I am currently on
analog
cable, and they are sucking down a pretty large percentage of one whole
core on my Q6600 Intel processor recording 480x480 2200 bitrate Mpeg4.

There was a list of cards on the mythtv wiki that indicated which cards
do hardware compression and analog capture, and it was a pretty short
list, IIRC.

Mark
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beww at beww

Jan 19, 2010, 3:01 PM

Post #8 of 13 (1315 views)
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Re: ananolg tuner recommendations [In reply to]

On Tuesday 19 January 2010 03:46:46 pm Mark wrote:
> Be careful whatever analog card you do end up putting in your backend.
> Not very many of the current offerings have hardware compression like
> the old
> PVR-250/350s did. I just put a couple of Pinnacle 800i HD cards in my
> new backend, which are capable of analog capture, as I am currently on
> analog
> cable, and they are sucking down a pretty large percentage of one whole
> core on my Q6600 Intel processor recording 480x480 2200 bitrate Mpeg4.
>
> There was a list of cards on the mythtv wiki that indicated which cards
> do hardware compression and analog capture, and it was a pretty short
> list, IIRC.

It's certainly cheaper to just let the CPU do the job, as opposed to putting
compression hardware on the card. It's the old "WinModem" theory. Now that
most Windows machines being sold are way overpowered for what the buyers need,
it almost makes sense.

Most buyers just want to watch TV on their Windows machines, and buy based on
price, this does not lead to many cards optimized for Myth systems. As you
said, there weren't that many of them even before the digital changeover.

Maybe we need a reverse Broadcom Crystal HD module, to handle compression.
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fairlane at springcom

Jan 19, 2010, 3:25 PM

Post #9 of 13 (1304 views)
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Re: ananolg tuner recommendations [In reply to]

Brian Wood wrote:
> It's certainly cheaper to just let the CPU do the job, as opposed to putting
> compression hardware on the card. It's the old "WinModem" theory. Now that
> most Windows machines being sold are way overpowered for what the buyers need,
> it almost makes sense.
>
> Most buyers just want to watch TV on their Windows machines, and buy based on
> price, this does not lead to many cards optimized for Myth systems. As you
> said, there weren't that many of them even before the digital changeover.
>
> Maybe we need a reverse Broadcom Crystal HD module, to handle compression.
>
I don't know that it is cheaper to do it in cpu cycles or not, my gut
feel is not, seems like dedicated hardware
can do it with less watt input than cpu. I know that my proc didn't go
into low power mode while the tuners were
recording, that's for sure. I couldn't believe how much power it was
taking to record two streams at once.
The quad 6600 isn't exactly a lightweight proc. I still like the
Nvidia ION approach to things. Keep the watts
on the grid when I can, it doesn't do me any good to pay for them.... :)
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beww at beww

Jan 19, 2010, 3:29 PM

Post #10 of 13 (1309 views)
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Re: ananolg tuner recommendations [In reply to]

On Tuesday 19 January 2010 04:25:18 pm Mark wrote:

> I don't know that it is cheaper to do it in cpu cycles or not, my gut
> feel is not, seems like dedicated hardware
> can do it with less watt input than cpu.
>
The manufacturers do not care about power efficiency for the end user. By
"cheaper" I meant for the card makers.
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fsquires at gmail

Jan 20, 2010, 4:50 AM

Post #11 of 13 (1245 views)
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Re: ananolg tuner recommendations [In reply to]

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 6:29 PM, Brian Wood <beww [at] beww> wrote:
> On Tuesday 19 January 2010 04:25:18 pm Mark wrote:
>
>> I don't know that it is cheaper to do it in cpu cycles or not, my gut
>> feel is not, seems like dedicated hardware
>> can do it with less watt input than cpu.
>>
> The manufacturers do not care about power efficiency for the end user. By
> "cheaper" I meant for the card makers.

It's usually cheaper up front for the consumer as well. When one is
$50 and another is $100, most people will pick up the cheaper card
without considering the reasons for the lower cost. My first card was
a bttv card, because it was cheap and I was just testing the waters.
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bob_ml at stuffofmine

Jan 20, 2010, 5:21 AM

Post #12 of 13 (1238 views)
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Re: ananolg tuner recommendations [In reply to]

David Liana wrote:

>
> On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Don B <mythlist [at] bossung
> <mailto:mythlist [at] bossung>> wrote:
>
> I have a friend looking for 4 analog tuners. Preferably in 2-tuner
> cards. In the past I would have said the pvr500 as that is what I have
> experience with. Since this is no longer available via retail (only ebay
> etc) can someone recommend a PCI based dual tuner card? Or a single
> tuner PCI analog equivilent?
>
> I've had good experience with the Hauppage HVR-1600

I have the Hauppage HVR-1600 and I haven't been impressed. The video
quality isn't as good as my PVR350. I can easily tell which tuner
recorded a show.

Bob
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mythlist at bossung

Jan 20, 2010, 5:59 AM

Post #13 of 13 (1249 views)
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Re: ananolg tuner recommendations [In reply to]

------------------------------
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 18:25:18 -0500
> From: Mark <fairlane [at] springcom>
> Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] ananolg tuner recommendations
> To: Discussion about mythtv <mythtv-users [at] mythtv>
> Message-ID: <4B563F5E.9070704 [at] springcom>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> Brian Wood wrote:
> > It's certainly cheaper to just let the CPU do the job, as opposed to putting
> > compression hardware on the card. It's the old "WinModem" theory. Now that
> > most Windows machines being sold are way overpowered for what the buyers need,
> > it almost makes sense.
> >
> > Most buyers just want to watch TV on their Windows machines, and buy based on
> > price, this does not lead to many cards optimized for Myth systems. As you
> > said, there weren't that many of them even before the digital changeover.
> >
> > Maybe we need a reverse Broadcom Crystal HD module, to handle compression.
> >
> I don't know that it is cheaper to do it in cpu cycles or not, my gut
> feel is not, seems like dedicated hardware
> can do it with less watt input than cpu. I know that my proc didn't go
> into low power mode while the tuners were
> recording, that's for sure. I couldn't believe how much power it was
> taking to record two streams at once.
> The quad 6600 isn't exactly a lightweight proc. I still like the
> Nvidia ION approach to things. Keep the watts
> on the grid when I can, it doesn't do me any good to pay for them.... :)
> ------------------------------
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 16:29:33 -0700
> From: Brian Wood <beww [at] beww>
> Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] ananolg tuner recommendations
> To: Discussion about mythtv <mythtv-users [at] mythtv>
> Message-ID: <201001191629.33359.beww [at] beww>
> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> On Tuesday 19 January 2010 04:25:18 pm Mark wrote:
> > I don't know that it is cheaper to do it in cpu cycles or not, my gut
> > feel is not, seems like dedicated hardware
> > can do it with less watt input than cpu.
> >
> The manufacturers do not care about power efficiency for the end user. By
> "cheaper" I meant for the card makers.
> ------------------------------

Thanks everyone for the information, the discussion was quite
enlightening.
Don

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