Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Users

PVR 350 quick questions

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daryl at des

Nov 7, 2003, 7:17 AM

Post #1 of 12 (1620 views)
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PVR 350 quick questions

Hi,
I am thinking of a setup with the following specification :

EPIA ME6000
256 meg PC2100
Samsung 5400 spin HDD
Hauppauge PVR-350

I have read that the 350 can encode and decode at the same time, will this
make up for the lack of direct CPU power ?

Through past posts I cannot see if the OSD is supported on the PVR-350
output ?

If it is supported would there then be any need for a monitor (or use of the
other tv output) apart from installing updates etc. ?

Thanks

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torsten.schenkel at web

Nov 7, 2003, 8:48 AM

Post #2 of 12 (1611 views)
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Re: PVR 350 quick questions [In reply to]

On Fri, 2003-11-07 at 15:17, daryl [at] des wrote:
> Hi,
> I am thinking of a setup with the following specification :
>
> EPIA ME6000
> 256 meg PC2100
> Samsung 5400 spin HDD
> Hauppauge PVR-350

Same setup as mine, except I went for 512MB which I would recomend to be
able to get away without a swap partition.

> I have read that the 350 can encode and decode at the same time, will this
> make up for the lack of direct CPU power ?

Yes definitely, but you have to be aware that you are stuck with mpeg1/2
ti use the decoder/tv-out at the moment. The CPU is fast enough for
divx, but the tv-out framebuffer is not!

So you have to wait for a pvr output in xine or mplayer. How many pvr
users are in this group? Xine developer says he would like to support
the pvr, but cannot afford the card. Maybe we can raise funds for him?

> Through past posts I cannot see if the OSD is supported on the PVR-350
> output ?

Perfectly.

> If it is supported would there then be any need for a monitor (or use of the
> other tv output) apart from installing updates etc. ?

Updates are installed via ssh. I don't have any other display on my box.
You won't see the boot messages though. I have hooked up the tv-out of
the epia to another input on the DD-Amp so I can switch to the console
when a problem occurs. But this is rarely the case. Most of the time I
use ssh.

Torsten
--
Config files for PVR350 TV-Out:
http://www-isl.mach.uni-karlsruhe.de/~hi93/ivtv-pvr-350-conf.tgz

m0j0 at foofus

Nov 7, 2003, 9:30 AM

Post #3 of 12 (1592 views)
Permalink

Re: PVR 350 quick questions [In reply to]

On Fri, 2003-11-07 at 09:48, Torsten Schenkel wrote:
> > I have read that the 350 can encode and decode at the same time, will this
> > make up for the lack of direct CPU power ?
>
> Yes definitely, but you have to be aware that you are stuck with mpeg1/2
> ti use the decoder/tv-out at the moment. The CPU is fast enough for
> divx, but the tv-out framebuffer is not!

Has anyone tested this? I was under the assumption that I'd still be
able to display non-MPEG to the framebuffer, but it'd just put a heavy
load on my CPU. I was hoping my XP2100 would be enough.

Does this mean that none of Ogle/Mplayer/Xmame/MythMusic Visualizations
currently work on the 350 tv-out? If so, I may be reconsidering
purchasing one of these.

> So you have to wait for a pvr output in xine or mplayer. How many pvr
> users are in this group? Xine developer says he would like to support
> the pvr, but cannot afford the card. Maybe we can raise funds for him?

Possibly interested. The ability to use the other above apps will
determine if I buy one of these for myself.

Joe

cward at go-integral

Nov 7, 2003, 2:59 PM

Post #4 of 12 (1600 views)
Permalink

RE: PVR 350 quick questions [In reply to]

Could you please explain what 'the tv-out framebuffer is not!" (fast enough) means, and what that means practicaly? What is your understanding of what the PVR-350 could not do that others cards can.

Thanks
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: m0j0.j0j0 [mailto:m0j0 [at] foofus]
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 10:30 AM
To: Discussion about mythtv
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] PVR 350 quick questions

On Fri, 2003-11-07 at 09:48, Torsten Schenkel wrote:
> > I have read that the 350 can encode and decode at the same time, will this
> > make up for the lack of direct CPU power ?
>
> Yes definitely, but you have to be aware that you are stuck with mpeg1/2
> ti use the decoder/tv-out at the moment. The CPU is fast enough for
> divx, but the tv-out framebuffer is not!

Has anyone tested this? I was under the assumption that I'd still be
able to display non-MPEG to the framebuffer, but it'd just put a heavy
load on my CPU. I was hoping my XP2100 would be enough.

Does this mean that none of Ogle/Mplayer/Xmame/MythMusic Visualizations
currently work on the 350 tv-out? If so, I may be reconsidering
purchasing one of these.

> So you have to wait for a pvr output in xine or mplayer. How many pvr
> users are in this group? Xine developer says he would like to support
> the pvr, but cannot afford the card. Maybe we can raise funds for him?

Possibly interested. The ability to use the other above apps will
determine if I buy one of these for myself.

Joe

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mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

jim at jtan

Nov 7, 2003, 3:12 PM

Post #5 of 12 (1600 views)
Permalink

Re: PVR 350 quick questions [In reply to]

> Could you please explain what 'the tv-out framebuffer is not!" (fast
> enough) means, and what that means practicaly? What is your
> understanding of what the PVR-350 could not do that others cards
> can.

The PVR-350 provides a framebuffer device that's intended for use as
video overlay. Writing to it is plenty fast for drawing menus and
overlaid text and images, but not fast enough for displaying
full motion video from the PC. What this means practically is that
you can use the PVR-350's hardware decoder to decode and display
MPEG-2 video, but you will not be able to use the computer to decode
any other formats.

-jim

m0j0 at foofus

Nov 7, 2003, 3:56 PM

Post #6 of 12 (1600 views)
Permalink

Re: PVR 350 quick questions [In reply to]

On Fri, 2003-11-07 at 16:12, Jim Paris wrote:
> > Could you please explain what 'the tv-out framebuffer is not!" (fast
> > enough) means, and what that means practicaly? What is your
> > understanding of what the PVR-350 could not do that others cards
> > can.
>
> The PVR-350 provides a framebuffer device that's intended for use as
> video overlay. Writing to it is plenty fast for drawing menus and
> overlaid text and images, but not fast enough for displaying
> full motion video from the PC. What this means practically is that
> you can use the PVR-350's hardware decoder to decode and display
> MPEG-2 video, but you will not be able to use the computer to decode
> any other formats.
>
> -jim

On the IVTV list there was some talk of potentially doing quick YUV
transfers to the device for output, rather than MPEG. Unfortunately, I'm
fairly clueless here. Could you (or anyone for that matter) clue me in
to what that means?

Based on your email it's looking to me like the PVR350 TV-OUT is only
useful if you plan only to use Myth for watching TV. If you ever wish to
use Xmame or other graphics heavy app, you need a normal TV-out video
card. Am I missing anything?

Thanks,
Joe

torsten.schenkel at web

Nov 7, 2003, 4:52 PM

Post #7 of 12 (1610 views)
Permalink

Re: PVR 350 quick questions [In reply to]

On Fri, 2003-11-07 at 17:30, m0j0.j0j0 wrote:
> On Fri, 2003-11-07 at 09:48, Torsten Schenkel wrote:
> > > I have read that the 350 can encode and decode at the same time, will this
> > > make up for the lack of direct CPU power ?
> >
> > Yes definitely, but you have to be aware that you are stuck with mpeg1/2
> > ti use the decoder/tv-out at the moment. The CPU is fast enough for
> > divx, but the tv-out framebuffer is not!
>
> Has anyone tested this? I was under the assumption that I'd still be
> able to display non-MPEG to the framebuffer, but it'd just put a heavy
> load on my CPU. I was hoping my XP2100 would be enough.

The OP asked about the pvr350 with a 600MHz Eden CPU. Then the
framebuffer is lacking xv support. The cpu can decode the divx but not
scale it.

So with a 2100 you might be fine. Don't know though.

Torsten
--
Config files for PVR350 TV-Out:
http://www-isl.mach.uni-karlsruhe.de/~hi93/ivtv-pvr-350-conf.tgz

torsten.schenkel at web

Nov 7, 2003, 5:30 PM

Post #8 of 12 (1620 views)
Permalink

Re: PVR 350 quick questions [In reply to]

On Fri, 2003-11-07 at 23:56, m0j0.j0j0 wrote:

> On the IVTV list there was some talk of potentially doing quick YUV
> transfers to the device for output, rather than MPEG. Unfortunately, I'm
> fairly clueless here. Could you (or anyone for that matter) clue me in
> to what that means?

ATM, you can simply send an mpeg stream to the pvr's decoder which will
then be decoded by the card and displayed on TV. All decoding in H/W on
the pvr, the pc only needs to manage the data transfer. This is what we
have now. In combination with the framebuffer device that can be
overlayed over the decoder stream this gives the possibility to display
the X screen or the OSD while watching tv, vcd, svcd. (vcd/svcd is not
supported out of the box, but works. Some dvds work as well, stereo as
first audio stream)

The firmware supports another stream type: YUV, wich will bypass the
decoder, but will be displayed on the tv using the h/w scaler. (The
framebuffer can be overlayed as well). When the cpu decodes the video to
yuv, then basically any video format can be displayed. Unfortunately
neither ivtv nor mplayer or xine do support this feature. But I guess it
will be possible before years's end.

> Based on your email it's looking to me like the PVR350 TV-OUT is only
> useful if you plan only to use Myth for watching TV. If you ever wish to
> use Xmame or other graphics heavy app, you need a normal TV-out video
> card. Am I missing anything?

I don't use Mythmusic visualizations in fullscreen, because my cpu is to
slow for them anyways. But they don't use xv IIRC, at least they didn't
on my workstation (Radeon 9500 Pro). But I guess a fast cpu should be
able to display them and xmame on the framebuffer. If I can lay hands on
a rom, I might try (Epia 600MHz Eden). ATM I'm only using the pvr
tv-out, but might try the onboard tv-out for things like mame and such
(and xine, but after the pvr's tv-out anything else is a pain to watch).
The mythbox freed some of the inputs on the A/V amplifier :-)

Torsten
--
Config files for PVR350 TV-Out:
http://www-isl.mach.uni-karlsruhe.de/~hi93/ivtv-pvr-350-conf.tgz

debian at nc

Nov 8, 2003, 7:55 AM

Post #9 of 12 (1610 views)
Permalink

Re: PVR 350 quick questions [In reply to]

On Fri, 2003-11-07 at 10:48, Torsten Schenkel wrote:
>
[snip]
>
> So you have to wait for a pvr output in xine or mplayer. How many pvr
> users are in this group? Xine developer says he would like to support
> the pvr, but cannot afford the card. Maybe we can raise funds for him?
>
[snip]

Yes, I would be up for donating some $ to get xine going on the
pvr-350. Let's see how many people we can get.

-jose-

torsten.schenkel at web

Nov 8, 2003, 10:30 AM

Post #10 of 12 (1582 views)
Permalink

Re: PVR 350 quick questions [In reply to]

On Sat, 2003-11-08 at 15:55, jose rubio wrote:
> On Fri, 2003-11-07 at 10:48, Torsten Schenkel wrote:
> >
> [snip]
> >
> > So you have to wait for a pvr output in xine or mplayer. How many pvr
> > users are in this group? Xine developer says he would like to support
> > the pvr, but cannot afford the card. Maybe we can raise funds for him?
> >
> [snip]
>
> Yes, I would be up for donating some $ to get xine going on the
> pvr-350. Let's see how many people we can get.

OK. So let's ask:

How many people on this list would like to have pvr support for xine?

How many of those would be willing to give some $ to the cause?

The list so far:

Jose Rubio
Torsten Schenkel

I'll ask Miguel Freitas if he has the time to implement it if we get him
a card!

Torsten
--
Config files for PVR350 TV-Out:
http://www-isl.mach.uni-karlsruhe.de/~hi93/ivtv-pvr-350-conf.tgz

ijr at po

Nov 8, 2003, 10:38 AM

Post #11 of 12 (1604 views)
Permalink

Re: PVR 350 quick questions [In reply to]

On Saturday 08 November 2003 12:30 pm, Torsten Schenkel wrote:
> On Sat, 2003-11-08 at 15:55, jose rubio wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 2003-11-07 at 10:48, Torsten Schenkel wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > >
> > > So you have to wait for a pvr output in xine or mplayer. How many pvr
> > > users are in this group? Xine developer says he would like to support
> > > the pvr, but cannot afford the card. Maybe we can raise funds for him?
> > >
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > Yes, I would be up for donating some $ to get xine going on the
> > pvr-350. Let's see how many people we can get.
>
> OK. So let's ask:
>
> How many people on this list would like to have pvr support for xine?
>
> How many of those would be willing to give some $ to the cause?
>
> The list so far:
>
> Jose Rubio
> Torsten Schenkel
>
> I'll ask Miguel Freitas if he has the time to implement it if we get him
> a card!

That'd be pretty useless until the driver supports the YUV display method.

Isaac
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torsten.schenkel at web

Nov 9, 2003, 6:45 AM

Post #12 of 12 (1580 views)
Permalink

Re: PVR 350 quick questions [In reply to]

On Sat, 2003-11-08 at 18:38, Isaac Richards wrote:

> > I'll ask Miguel Freitas if he has the time to implement it if we get him
> > a card!
>
> That'd be pretty useless until the driver supports the YUV display method.

I know, but aren't the three of you (Kevin, Jens and yourself) working
on that at the moment?

Given the past evolution of ivtv I guess it'll be supported before we
can manage to raise the funds and send a card.

Torsten
--
Config files for PVR350 TV-Out:
http://www-isl.mach.uni-karlsruhe.de/~hi93/ivtv-pvr-350-conf.tgz

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