Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Users

Hidden Silicon Dust channel guide wonderfulness

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stefan_jones at comcast

Nov 23, 2009, 7:36 PM

Post #1 of 10 (1195 views)
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Hidden Silicon Dust channel guide wonderfulness

----- "Kirk Bocek" <t004 [at] kbocek> wrote:
> stefan_jones [at] comcast wrote:
> > Everything was ducky until earlier in the month.
> >
> > Over the last two weeks the clear QAM channels for the most
> desirable
> > cable stations (Syfy, Cartoon Network, TNT . . . basically
> everything
> > but local broadcast, public and school access, shopping and
> Telemundo)
> > have disappeared. They really are scrambled, not just moved to other
>
> > transports. I can still watch them via an STB or DTA, but my digital
>
> > tuner couldn't see them.
>
> Thought I'd check one more thing for you:
>
> http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/lineup_web/US:97212#lineup_1134552
>
> Silicon Dust, the makers of the HD Homerun, keep a database of the
> digital
> channels their device finds. I only checked a couple of zip codes in
> the
> Portland area but the pickings were pretty meager. Basically OTA,
> public
> access and shopping channels, like you said.
>
> Sad.

The Silicon Dust site is indeed wonderful. And it has hidden secrets! If you View Page Source, you'll see XML data for all of those channels. AND the listings show transport (frequency) and program number! Here's the listing for The Discovery Channel in my area:

<Program>
<Modulation>qam256</Modulation>
<Frequency>675000000</Frequency>
<PhysicalChannel>104</PhysicalChannel>

<ProgramNumber>303</ProgramNumber>
<GuideNumber>7</GuideNumber>
<GuideName>DSCP</GuideName>
<Resolution>704x480i</Resolution>
<Resolution>704x480p</Resolution>
<Aspect>4:3</Aspect>

<Snapshot>16059432</Snapshot>
<Snapshot>16058654</Snapshot>
<Snapshot>16042253</Snapshot>
</Program>

Back when there were more clear QAM channels, I'd make a channel guide printout for my live TV viewing by importing the XML into Excel, trimming out the unneeded columns, and printing it out.

You can use the above data to help during channel scans.

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eric at lisaneric

Nov 24, 2009, 6:40 AM

Post #2 of 10 (1150 views)
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Re: Hidden Silicon Dust channel guide wonderfulness [In reply to]

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 10:36 PM, <stefan_jones [at] comcast> wrote:
> The Silicon Dust site is indeed wonderful. And it has hidden secrets! If you
> View Page Source, you'll see XML data for all of those channels.

I don't know where they get their data, but I haven't found it to be
100% reliable. For my zip code, the channel maps I get by scanning
Comcast cable seem to differ from what they have on the web.

Eric
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mythtv-users2 at dwilga-linux1

Nov 24, 2009, 10:08 AM

Post #3 of 10 (1141 views)
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Re: Hidden Silicon Dust channel guide wonderfulness [In reply to]

At 9:40 AM -0500 11/24/09, Eric Sharkey wrote:
>On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 10:36 PM, <stefan_jones [at] comcast> wrote:
>> The Silicon Dust site is indeed wonderful. And it has hidden secrets! If you
>> View Page Source, you'll see XML data for all of those channels.
>
>I don't know where they get their data, but I haven't found it to be
>100% reliable. For my zip code, the channel maps I get by scanning
>Comcast cable seem to differ from what they have on the web.

There a few things to consider:

1. The data might be days or weeks out-of-date, since it's generated
automatically by users' own HDHRs.

2. The data might not represent all possible combinations of cable
service. If the users who ran the scan don't subscribe to the most
expensive tier of programming, the site won't show all the possible
channels.

3. If there isn't any data available for your ZIP code, the site
makes a best guess based on proximity. For me, it shows the cable
lineup from a town about 20 miles away, which is slightly different.
--
Dan Wilga "Ook."
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eric at lisaneric

Nov 24, 2009, 10:22 AM

Post #4 of 10 (1126 views)
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Re: Hidden Silicon Dust channel guide wonderfulness [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Dan Wilga
<mythtv-users2 [at] dwilga-linux1> wrote:
> At 9:40 AM -0500 11/24/09, Eric Sharkey wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 10:36 PM, <stefan_jones [at] comcast> wrote:
>>>
>>> The Silicon Dust site is indeed wonderful. And it has hidden secrets! If
>>> you
>>> View Page Source, you'll see XML data for all of those channels.
>>
>> I don't know where they get their data, but I haven't found it to be
>> 100% reliable. For my zip code, the channel maps I get by scanning
>> Comcast cable seem to differ from what they have on the web.
>
> There a few things to consider:
>
> 1. The data might be days or weeks out-of-date, since it's generated
> automatically by users' own HDHRs.

How is this possible (automatic generation)? I thought the whole
point of scte65scan and such was that the HDHR has no reliable method
for determining the call sign of the station at a given frequency.

Eric
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mythtv-users2 at dwilga-linux1

Nov 24, 2009, 1:16 PM

Post #5 of 10 (1131 views)
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Re: Hidden Silicon Dust channel guide wonderfulness [In reply to]

At 1:22 PM -0500 11/24/09, Eric Sharkey wrote:
> > 1. The data might be days or weeks out-of-date, since it's generated
> > automatically by users' own HDHRs.
>
>How is this possible (automatic generation)? I thought the whole
>point of scte65scan and such was that the HDHR has no reliable method
>for determining the call sign of the station at a given frequency.

That's another thing to consider :-). For OTA, the data contained in
the stream is pretty reliable, but for cable I'd imagine they
probably also include data from Gemstar in some form or other.

My point is that the very presence of a listing (and a channel) is
predicated upon there being a user who receives the channel and
leaves the feature to send data to SiliconDust enabled.
--
Dan Wilga "Ook."
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eric at lisaneric

Nov 24, 2009, 1:54 PM

Post #6 of 10 (1128 views)
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Re: Hidden Silicon Dust channel guide wonderfulness [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Dan Wilga
<mythtv-users2 [at] dwilga-linux1> wrote:
> My point is that the very presence of a listing (and a channel) is
> predicated upon there being a user who receives the channel and leaves the
> feature to send data to SiliconDust enabled.

It must be opt-in not opt-out, mustn't it? How would they know your
provider and zip if you didn't manually enter this information?

Eric
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tortise at paradise

Nov 24, 2009, 2:06 PM

Post #7 of 10 (1119 views)
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Re: Hidden Silicon Dust channel guide wonderfulness [In reply to]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Sharkey" <eric [at] lisaneric>
To: "Discussion about mythtv" <mythtv-users [at] mythtv>
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Hidden Silicon Dust channel guide wonderfulness

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Dan Wilga
<mythtv-users2 [at] dwilga-linux1> wrote:
> My point is that the very presence of a listing (and a channel) is
> predicated upon there being a user who receives the channel and leaves the
> feature to send data to SiliconDust enabled.

> It must be opt-in not opt-out, mustn't it? How would they know your
provider and zip if you didn't manually enter this information?

===========
I understand Silicon Dust get the data when you enable the appropriate options under support and/or "Exchange channel information
with the Silicon Dust lineup server" Is this what people are alluding to? The debug information is useful to diagnose their
customer config issues. Seems they gat useful data in the process.

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stichnot at gmail

Nov 24, 2009, 2:16 PM

Post #8 of 10 (1128 views)
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Re: Hidden Silicon Dust channel guide wonderfulness [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Eric Sharkey <eric [at] lisaneric> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Dan Wilga
> <mythtv-users2 [at] dwilga-linux1> wrote:
>> My point is that the very presence of a listing (and a channel) is
>> predicated upon there being a user who receives the channel and leaves the
>> feature to send data to SiliconDust enabled.
>
> It must be opt-in not opt-out, mustn't it? �How would they know your
> provider and zip if you didn't manually enter this information?

It is described here:
http://www.silicondust.com/privacy

Jim
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mythtv-users2 at dwilga-linux1

Nov 24, 2009, 2:28 PM

Post #9 of 10 (1105 views)
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Re: Hidden Silicon Dust channel guide wonderfulness [In reply to]

At 4:54 PM -0500 11/24/09, Eric Sharkey wrote:
>On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Dan Wilga
><mythtv-users2 [at] dwilga-linux1> wrote:
>> My point is that the very presence of a listing (and a channel) is
>> predicated upon there being a user who receives the channel and leaves the
>> feature to send data to SiliconDust enabled.
>
>It must be opt-in not opt-out, mustn't it? How would they know your
>provider and zip if you didn't manually enter this information?

Yes, it's an opt-in, technically. But, as I recall when I set it up
on a PC (which I've hardly used for this purpose since) several years
ago, you're encouraged to enter your ZIP code in order to get channel
lineups. The software doesn't specifically warn you that by doing
this data will be sent back to SD during off-peak hours--even if you
never use the PC software again. The lack of warning may have
changed, or I could be misremembering its absence, though.

This is one of the few cases where I don't really care if a company
gathers information from a device I own, since they're only using it
for this page, and the data is gathered during times when the HDHR
isn't doing anything else, anyway. I disabled the feature since I
didn't want it using my network bandwidth and, like most Myth users,
I don't have any use for the device's channel lineups.
--
Dan Wilga "Ook."
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eric at lisaneric

Nov 24, 2009, 2:32 PM

Post #10 of 10 (1114 views)
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Re: Hidden Silicon Dust channel guide wonderfulness [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Jim Stichnoth <stichnot [at] gmail> wrote:
>> It must be opt-in not opt-out, mustn't it? How would they know your
>> provider and zip if you didn't manually enter this information?
>
> It is described here:
> http://www.silicondust.com/privacy

Interesting. I just enabled mine.

I still don't see any way to set the name of the provider. I guess
they just guess based on the existing channels whether I have Comcast,
Verizon FIOS, or am using OTA or some combination there of? Strange.

Eric
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