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For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost?

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bobbygill at rogers

Nov 23, 2009, 12:40 PM

Post #1 of 32 (2239 views)
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For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost?

drescherjm at gmail

Nov 23, 2009, 12:50 PM

Post #2 of 32 (2190 views)
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Re: For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost? [In reply to]

mzimmerman at gmail

Nov 23, 2009, 12:56 PM

Post #3 of 32 (2192 views)
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Re: For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost? [In reply to]

I think it depends on what you want to get out of it. For me,
initially I had almost everything on hand except for a tuner card. I
bought my first one a pchdtv-5500 for $125.

Everything else, I basically had on hand already. A cheap antenna, an
old ~2gigahertz pc, and a small hard drive. Since then I've been
upgrading, little pieces at a time. First, a 360gb hd, then a
hardware encoding pvr-150, then a 1TB hd. Then I decided to drop
cable and so my pvr150 didn't do anything anymore, so I got another
cheap ATSC card. Then since all of my content is now HD, I eventually
got a VDPAU card which required upgrading the motherboard to one with
a PCI-E slot.

So, it's all in what you want to get out of it. As I realized how
good Myth was, I kept wanting more. I'm very happy with my setup the
way it is now.
Matt

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Bobby Gill <bobbygill [at] rogers> wrote:
> I am curious what the total cost is/was for you to get everything up and
> running (asides from time, which depending on whom you are may be the
> priciest...).
>
> So for example, an HD capture card, a capable backend, the frontend(s) of
> course, the subscription to a provider and/or an antenna-- and if an
> antenna, did you do it yourself? Order it online, buy from a shop, hire
> someone to install, etc.? Not necessarily asking for the life story but some
> brief explanation of the components as I'm really trying to get a gauge on
> what entering this arena may cost me, and whether it's /worth/ it or not...
>
>
> Thanks a lot
> Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
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jedi at mishnet

Nov 23, 2009, 12:58 PM

Post #4 of 32 (2196 views)
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Re: For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost? [In reply to]

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 03:40:28PM -0500, Bobby Gill wrote:
> I am curious what the total cost is/was for you to get everything up and
> running (asides from time, which depending on whom you are may be the
> priciest...).

...with the wide availability of full acceleration of MPEG2 and h264 for
cheap, the costs really aren't as much as one might expect. With the march
of time (and tech), costs in general are lower then whn I started. Stuff
like the HD-PVR in particular are a bit more expensive but this unit also
eliminates much of the motivation for further compressing recordings. HD
playback and playback in general are cheaper and easier as low profile
systems are more widely available these days.

My local BestBuy has an Revo on display. Although it almost looks like
they are trying to hide it so people don't get the idea that they may only
need to spend $200 on their desktop system.

Skip comflagging and you could probably get away with using a Revo as
a combined BE/FE. So if were trying to build the cheapest possible cable
HD solution it would be a Revo, an esata drive and an HD-PVR for about $500
total.

...of course you can get a lot "fancier" than that.

>
> So for example, an HD capture card, a capable backend, the frontend(s) of
> course, the subscription to a provider and/or an antenna-- and if an
> antenna, did you do it yourself? Order it online, buy from a shop, hire
> someone to install, etc.? Not necessarily asking for the life story but some
> brief explanation of the components as I'm really trying to get a gauge on
> what entering this arena may cost me, and whether it's /worth/ it or not...
>
>
> Thanks a lot
> Bob

> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

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memmott at gmail

Nov 23, 2009, 1:00 PM

Post #5 of 32 (2197 views)
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Re: For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost? [In reply to]

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Bobby Gill <bobbygill [at] rogers> wrote:

> I am curious what the total cost is/was for you to get everything up and
> running (asides from time, which depending on whom you are may be the
> priciest...).
>
> So for example, an HD capture card, a capable backend, the frontend(s) of
> course, the subscription to a provider and/or an antenna-- and if an
> antenna, did you do it yourself? Order it online, buy from a shop, hire
> someone to install, etc.? Not necessarily asking for the life story but some
> brief explanation of the components as I'm really trying to get a gauge on
> what entering this arena may cost me, and whether it's /worth/ it or not...
>
>
> Thanks a lot
> Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
>

Master Backend is a dual opteron server, specs here:
http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/57909216/m/452000411041?r=452000411041#452000411041(Disclaimer:
I'm the guy selling them.) Replaced the 2 CPUs with Opteron
2.2GHZ for $20 and a couple fans, so we'll say $110 total.

Tuner 1 is an HDHomeRun, $140.

Tuner 2 is an HD-PVR, around $200 from dell.com

Slave BE / living room FE is a dual-core Pentium based box with a $100
8400GS PCI card and 250GB HDD, total cost roughly $400. It has its own cable
box, too ($10 per month).

So, a grand total of $850 for parts. Charter HD service is about $70 per
month. I could have saved some money by making one big BE/FE, and to be
honest the HDHR won't be needed as much (if) when I get the freaking HD-PVR
working reliably.

stefan_jones at comcast

Nov 23, 2009, 1:05 PM

Post #6 of 32 (2197 views)
Permalink

Re: For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost? [In reply to]

----- "Bobby Gill" <bobbygill [at] rogers> wrote:
> I am curious what the total cost is/was for you to get everything up and running (asides from time, which depending on whom you
> are may be the priciest...).
>
> So for example, an HD capture card, a capable backend, the frontend(s) of course, the subscription to a provider and/or an
>antenna-- and if an antenna, did you do it yourself? Order it online, buy from a shop, hire someone to install, etc.? Not necessarily
> asking for the life story but some brief explanation of the components as I'm really trying to get a gauge on what entering this
> arena may cost me, and whether it's /worth/ it or not...

There are so many ways to go.

My first MythBox, which could capture HD but couldn't reliably stream it because of audio issues, I literally found in the trash. (Since then I've found in the trash better systems than the new MythBox I built up last year. Go figure.)

Modest starter set:

You can turn a single-core Pentium 4 /3 GHz with 1 GB of memory that you found at a thrift shop into a MythBox. You'll need to add a modest video card (nVIDIA 5200, AGP or PCIe 16, under $40), and a modest capture card (under $60 for the Hauppague HVR-1250). And a nice hard drive; a 500 Gb SATA drive you find on special for under $50 will hold 60 plus hours of HD content.

Fancier:

Dual core system -- Intel or AMD -- with 2 GB of RAM. DVD burner for making DVDs. Motherboard or graphics card with HDMI output. nVIDIA graphics that can support VDPAU. Multiple tuners, including an analog model for capturing from cheap STBs.

Subscriptions and such:

I get Comcast cable. My TV antenna can actually get a fair amount of channels but I haven't tried integrating that into Myth.

Schedules Direct charges $20 a year for TV schedule downloads, customized to your area and signal source (cable, antenna, etc.).

travis at tabbal

Nov 23, 2009, 1:27 PM

Post #7 of 32 (2197 views)
Permalink

Re: For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost? [In reply to]

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Bobby Gill <bobbygill [at] rogers> wrote:

> I am curious what the total cost is/was for you to get everything up and
> running (asides from time, which depending on whom you are may be the
> priciest...).
>
> So for example, an HD capture card, a capable backend, the frontend(s) of
> course, the subscription to a provider and/or an antenna-- and if an
> antenna, did you do it yourself? Order it online, buy from a shop, hire
> someone to install, etc.? Not necessarily asking for the life story but some
> brief explanation of the components as I'm really trying to get a gauge on
> what entering this arena may cost me, and whether it's /worth/ it or not...
>

If I were to do it now, I'd make the frontends with Aspire Revo boxes
$200/ea. The backend can be somewhat slow if you don't want to do
commflagging or transcoding, but assume you want to do those and get a good
server box. Those $75 servers the other poster is selling would make a nice
backend box with an SATA card and a couple HDDs. Then you need a tuner or
capture card. I went with the HDHomerun and an antenna. The Antenna was
purchased online from solidsignal.com. I used a DB4, and installed it
myself. I get excellent signal for OTA HD channels. I believe the antenna
cost me about $50.

If you want to supplement with online sources that are flash based like
Hulu, you need more CPU in the frontend boxes. You can build uATX based
machine with a pretty fast dual-core AMD for not much more than the $200 for
the Revos if you want that. If you can find sources of h264 or MPEG2 video
without Flash, the Revos will work fine. It's Flash that sucks, not the
videos themselves. If Adobe would implement VDPAU, this would be a
non-issue.

beww at beww

Nov 23, 2009, 1:36 PM

Post #8 of 32 (2187 views)
Permalink

Re: For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost? [In reply to]

On Monday 23 November 2009 13:40:28 Bobby Gill wrote:
> I am curious what the total cost is/was for you to get everything up and
> running (asides from time, which depending on whom you are may be the
> priciest...).
>
> So for example, an HD capture card, a capable backend, the frontend(s) of
> course, the subscription to a provider and/or an antenna-- and if an
> antenna, did you do it yourself? Order it online, buy from a shop, hire
> someone to install, etc.? Not necessarily asking for the life story but
> some brief explanation of the components as I'm really trying to get a
> gauge on what entering this arena may cost me, and whether it's /worth/ it
> or not...

I'd like to make a suggestion for anyone contemplating a post like this, which
is likely to generate a LOT of responses, which may be of interest mainly to
the original poster.

I suggest that "polls" of this nature solicit responses directly to the
original poster, who would then summarize the responses in a single post,
after a reasonable amount of time has passed. Remember that "reasonable" may
be longer than you think, since many folks do not read the list daily, and
may require a week or more to respond.

It's not that I don't think it's reasonable to use this list as a polling
vehicle, I just think it is more efficient if the responses go to a single
individual, and a final summation of the data is all that most users here are
likely to want.

Of course I could be wrong, but I think it might better if data that pertains
to individual users, what equipment thery have and how much money they have
spent etc. might be better not going to a public archived list.

I for one would prefer the whole world not know what I have inside my home :-)

Perhaps I'm being paranoid, but it never hurts to be careful.

--
Brian Wood
beww [at] beww
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beww at beww

Nov 23, 2009, 1:44 PM

Post #9 of 32 (2198 views)
Permalink

Re: For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost? [In reply to]

On Monday 23 November 2009 14:27:52 Travis Tabbal wrote:

>
> If you want to supplement with online sources that are flash based like
> Hulu, you need more CPU in the frontend boxes. You can build uATX based
> machine with a pretty fast dual-core AMD for not much more than the $200
> for the Revos if you want that. If you can find sources of h264 or MPEG2
> video without Flash, the Revos will work fine. It's Flash that sucks, not
> the videos themselves. If Adobe would implement VDPAU, this would be a
> non-issue.

If you want to have multiple frontends capable of displaying flash content,
like Hulu, you might consider something like the PlayOn server, which does on
the fly transcoding of flash material to MPEG2, which requires very little to
play back.

Granted PlayON is Windows-only at present, but there may be some Linux
alternative that can accomplish the same thing, and thus eliminate the need
for more powerful CPUs in every frontend. MediaTomb can do transcoding,
though I don't think it can handle flash (yet).

--
Brian Wood
beww [at] beww
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mythtv-users mailing list
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mythtvusers at markgarland

Nov 23, 2009, 1:48 PM

Post #10 of 32 (2189 views)
Permalink

Re: For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost? [In reply to]

> I suggest that "polls" of this nature solicit responses directly to the
> original poster, who would then summarize the responses in a single post,
...
> It's not that I don't think it's reasonable to use this list as a polling
> vehicle, I just think it is more efficient if the responses go to a single
> individual, and a final summation of the data is all that most users here
> are likely to want.

Could I suggest that both are done?
Being one for detail, I enjoy reading all the responses, and it gives me
fresh ideas of what can be achieved with the Myth software. Different
people have quite different ideas for their hardware, so if they are kind
enough to detail what they have, we can all benefit from their experiences.
However, for the people who don't like details, a summary email from the OP
at the end may give them all they need.

> Of course I could be wrong, but I think it might better if data that
> pertains to individual users, what equipment thery have and how much money
> they have spent etc. might be better not going to a public archived list.
...
> Perhaps I'm being paranoid, but it never hurts to be careful.
It doesn't, and people must be careful to keep details to a minimum that
could give their location away.

MG

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nick.rout at gmail

Nov 23, 2009, 1:53 PM

Post #11 of 32 (2196 views)
Permalink

Re: For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost? [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Mark Garland
<mythtvusers [at] markgarland> wrote:
>> I suggest that "polls" of this nature solicit responses directly to the
>> original poster, who would then summarize the responses in a single post,
> ...
>> It's not that I don't think it's reasonable to use this list as a polling
>> vehicle, I just think it is more efficient if the responses go to a single
>> individual, and a final summation of the data is all that most users here
>> are likely to want.
>
> Could I suggest that both are done?
> Being one for detail, I enjoy reading all the responses, and it gives me
> fresh ideas of what can be achieved with the Myth software. �Different
> people have quite different ideas for their hardware, so if they are kind
> enough to detail what they have, we can all benefit from their experiences.
> However, for the people who don't like details, a summary email from the OP
> at the end may give them all they need.
>
>> Of course I could be wrong, but I think it might better if data that
>> pertains to individual users, what equipment thery have and how much money
>> they have spent etc. might be better not going to a public archived list.
> ...
>> Perhaps I'm being paranoid, but it never hurts to be careful.
> It doesn't, and people must be careful to keep details to a minimum that
> could give their location away.

Its pretty easy to track people, particularly when:

1. their IP address may be included in the headers to their email; and

2. people often post "I am in X area and get line of sight to Y
transmitter, why can't I get channel A?"

3. google/facebook/linkedin/etc are so helpful
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mythtvusers at markgarland

Nov 23, 2009, 1:56 PM

Post #12 of 32 (2195 views)
Permalink

Re: For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost? [In reply to]

> Its pretty easy to track people, particularly when:
>
> 1. their IP address may be included in the headers to their email; and
>
> 2. people often post "I am in X area and get line of sight to Y
> transmitter, why can't I get channel A?"
>
> 3. google/facebook/linkedin/etc are so helpful

You're right, and so is Brian.
I just worry that if everyone is too scared to comment about what hardware
they are having successes with, the usefulness of the list decreases.

I'll shut-up now for fear of dragging this off topic. :-)

MG

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jedi at mishnet

Nov 23, 2009, 2:11 PM

Post #13 of 32 (2199 views)
Permalink

Re: For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost? [In reply to]

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 02:27:52PM -0700, Travis Tabbal wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Bobby Gill <bobbygill [at] rogers> wrote:
>
> > I am curious what the total cost is/was for you to get everything up and
> > running (asides from time, which depending on whom you are may be the
> > priciest...).
> >
> > So for example, an HD capture card, a capable backend, the frontend(s) of
> > course, the subscription to a provider and/or an antenna-- and if an
> > antenna, did you do it yourself? Order it online, buy from a shop, hire
> > someone to install, etc.? Not necessarily asking for the life story but some
> > brief explanation of the components as I'm really trying to get a gauge on
> > what entering this arena may cost me, and whether it's /worth/ it or not...
> >
>
>
>
> If I were to do it now, I'd make the frontends with Aspire Revo boxes
> $200/ea. The backend can be somewhat slow if you don't want to do

...if you're talking about a dedicated backend (presumably in some other
room) then I would just go with a purpose built tower with accomodations
in the case (and on the mobo) for a 3x tall hot swap rack. You can gave a
quad-core like that built by an online reseller for ~$600.

Swap and add drives without opening the case...

[deletia]

My 2nd generation backend is just such a machine. It replaced a similar
configuration that was minus the hot swap bays and was in an Antec "desktop"
style case intended to be suitable as a frontend.

Now my master backend is a big ugly thing meant to be as convenient as
possible. ($600 for the basic system, $150 for the hot swap rack, plus the
cost of drives)
_______________________________________________
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beww at beww

Nov 23, 2009, 2:44 PM

Post #14 of 32 (2180 views)
Permalink

Re: For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost? [In reply to]

On Monday 23 November 2009 14:48:22 Mark Garland wrote:
> > I suggest that "polls" of this nature solicit responses directly to the
> > original poster, who would then summarize the responses in a single post,
>
> ...
>
> > It's not that I don't think it's reasonable to use this list as a polling
> > vehicle, I just think it is more efficient if the responses go to a
> > single individual, and a final summation of the data is all that most
> > users here are likely to want.
>
> Could I suggest that both are done?
> Being one for detail, I enjoy reading all the responses, and it gives me
> fresh ideas of what can be achieved with the Myth software. Different
> people have quite different ideas for their hardware, so if they are kind
> enough to detail what they have, we can all benefit from their experiences.
> However, for the people who don't like details, a summary email from the OP
> at the end may give them all they need.

Good, a "best of both worlds" approach. Anyone who doesn't want to have to
delete a lot of posts they don't want to wade through could easily just
filter on the subject.

Actually the "original poster posts a summary" aapproach could be used with
many of the threads here, with "SUMMARY" in the subject, or "SOLVED", if
appropriate.

It's always fun when you find a thread describing the precise problem you are
having. You eagerly follow the discussion, only to have it disappear,
presumably when the OP solves his problem. Very frustrating.

--
Brian Wood
beww [at] beww
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
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travis at tabbal

Nov 23, 2009, 2:47 PM

Post #15 of 32 (2183 views)
Permalink

Re: For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost? [In reply to]

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 3:11 PM, JEDIDIAH <jedi [at] mishnet> wrote:

>
> Now my master backend is a big ugly thing meant to be as convenient as
> possible. ($600 for the basic system, $150 for the hot swap rack, plus the
> cost of drives)
>

Quite so. My master backend lives in a VM on my file server. It's a big ugly
beast, but it also has the hot-swap racks and such to make maintence easy. 8
total drive bays with 4 more planned when I get money to order the drives.
Primary OS is OpenSolaris as I wanted ZFS. The VM is running Ubuntu 9.10
with Myth and the netboot server. The Frontends are diskless. If I were to
buy the Revo boxes, I'd remove the HDD and netboot them. The HDD would
become a backup tape. :)

myrdhn at gmail

Nov 23, 2009, 3:08 PM

Post #16 of 32 (2185 views)
Permalink

Re: For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost? [In reply to]

I am curious what the total cost is/was for you to get everything up and
running (asides from time, which depending on whom you are may be the
priciest...).

So for example, an HD capture card, a capable backend, the frontend(s) of
course, the subscription to a provider and/or an antenna-- and if an
antenna, did you do it yourself? Order it online, buy from a shop, hire
someone to install, etc.? Not necessarily asking for the life story but some
brief explanation of the components as I'm really trying to get a gauge on
what entering this arena may cost me, and whether it's /worth/ it or not...

Thanks a lot
Bob

Bob,

This would be hard for me as prices have probably changed over the years.

Initially I had an SD box with a PVR-350 and 500.

When the broadcast flag was being threatened I purchased a PCHDTV HD-3000
for $99.99 when it came out. This was a big purchase for me at the time as I
was not making a lot of money.

A few years later as more shows I wanted to watch were on the Clear QAM
channels I purchased 2 HD-5000's. Again for $99.99 I think.

A few months later I decided to remove the HD-3000 from the equation and
replace it with a 3rd HD-5000 (another $99.99), as getting it to play with
the HD-5000 and the PVR 350 and 500 was a bit of a chore.

At the same time I revamped my setup to include more drives (6 total) and a
more powerful PSU (old one could not supply for all the drives) to my
backend and a bigger case to house all the drives, not sure of the cost
then.

If I had the money right now I would upgrade my drives again, Newegg has a
deal right now on 1.5TB drives for $99.99.

Marc

PS: you can see my current system setup at
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User:MarcT

nick.rout at gmail

Nov 23, 2009, 3:32 PM

Post #17 of 32 (2180 views)
Permalink

Re: For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost? [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 12:08 PM, MarcT <myrdhn [at] gmail> wrote:
> I am curious what the total cost is/was for you to get everything up and
> running (asides from time, which depending on whom you are may be the
> priciest...).
>
> So for example, an HD capture card, a capable backend, the frontend(s) of
> course, the subscription to a provider and/or an antenna-- and if an
> antenna, did you do it yourself? Order it online, buy from a shop, hire
> someone to install, etc.? Not necessarily asking for the life story but some
> brief explanation of the components as I'm really trying to get a gauge on
> what entering this arena may cost me, and whether it's /worth/ it or not...
>
>

The problem with a thread like this is that its like saying "how much
does a 3 bedroom house cost" or "how much to buy 4 door car". Do you
want a minimal combined FE/BE HD system or one thats going to see you
out for a few years in terms of storage, multiple frontends, multiple
recording devices etc.

I think its almost better to either:

1. define exactly what sort of system you want and then ask for ideas
on hardware/pricing; or

2. do a bit of research on hardware and then say "does this look
reasonable in terms of price and functionality?"

And that will be 2c please :)
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beww at beww

Nov 23, 2009, 3:33 PM

Post #18 of 32 (2179 views)
Permalink

Re: For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost? [In reply to]

On Monday 23 November 2009 16:08:00 MarcT wrote:
> I am curious what the total cost is/was for you to get everything up and
> running (asides from time, which depending on whom you are may be the
> priciest...).
>
> So for example, an HD capture card, a capable backend, the frontend(s) of
> course, the subscription to a provider and/or an antenna-- and if an
> antenna, did you do it yourself? Order it online, buy from a shop, hire
> someone to install, etc.? Not necessarily asking for the life story but
> some brief explanation of the components as I'm really trying to get a
> gauge on what entering this arena may cost me, and whether it's /worth/ it
> or not...
>
>
> Thanks a lot
> Bob
>
>
>
>
>
> Bob,
>
>
>
> This would be hard for me as prices have probably changed over the years.
>
> Initially I had an SD box with a PVR-350 and 500.
>
> When the broadcast flag was being threatened I purchased a PCHDTV HD-3000
> for $99.99 when it came out. This was a big purchase for me at the time as
> I was not making a lot of money.
>
> A few years later as more shows I wanted to watch were on the Clear QAM
> channels I purchased 2 HD-5000's. Again for $99.99 I think.
>
> A few months later I decided to remove the HD-3000 from the equation and
> replace it with a 3rd HD-5000 (another $99.99), as getting it to play with
> the HD-5000 and the PVR 350 and 500 was a bit of a chore.
>
> At the same time I revamped my setup to include more drives (6 total) and a
> more powerful PSU (old one could not supply for all the drives) to my
> backend and a bigger case to house all the drives, not sure of the cost
> then.

I didn't buy an HD-capable machine from the start. I ran an SD system for some
years before I moved to HD, and my SD experience included many dead-ends and
wrong turns, so I now have a lot of hardware sitting around unused, or used
for other purposes than Myth.

So my total expenditure is not what it would cost to build an HD system from
scratch. I suspect I am far from alone in this.

I also used equipment I had from other projects.

The cost for an HD system is dependent on what signal sources you have
available, cable TV, satellite, one of the many DVB variants etc.

Today I would buy an HDHR for QAM and OTA capture, and/or an HD-PVR-1212 for
satellite capture, a reasonable server for a backend and a Revo for a
frontend.

That would be $200 for the Revo, $189 (or so) for an HDHR, the same price for
a 1212 and probably $400 for a refurbished server machine for a backend.

Call it $800 for a complete two-piece HD Myth system. It would be cheaper if
you were to go with a combo BE/FE, and if no 1212 was required, even less.

Judidious Ebaying could get the cost down even more, as would used equipment.

--
Brian Wood
beww [at] beww
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jedi at mishnet

Nov 23, 2009, 3:44 PM

Post #19 of 32 (2180 views)
Permalink

Re: For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost? [In reply to]

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 03:47:53PM -0700, Travis Tabbal wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 3:11 PM, JEDIDIAH <jedi [at] mishnet> wrote:
>
> >
> > Now my master backend is a big ugly thing meant to be as convenient as
> > possible. ($600 for the basic system, $150 for the hot swap rack, plus the
> > cost of drives)
> >
>
>
>
> Quite so. My master backend lives in a VM on my file server. It's a big ugly
> beast, but it also has the hot-swap racks and such to make maintence easy. 8
> total drive bays with 4 more planned when I get money to order the drives.
> Primary OS is OpenSolaris as I wanted ZFS. The VM is running Ubuntu 9.10
> with Myth and the netboot server. The Frontends are diskless. If I were to
> buy the Revo boxes, I'd remove the HDD and netboot them. The HDD would
> become a backup tape. :)

...this is something else that I do with my own frontend boxes.

I started doing it with my minis and now do the same with my IONs. These
boxes keep coming with more and more disk space on them and I am not using
any more of it. I don't net boot. I just boot from the internal disk but
I only use about 4G of it.

An asrock 330 has a 320G hard drive. That's lots of backup potential.

For some stuff, I have a backup copy on each frontend...

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Jim at Morton

Nov 24, 2009, 6:31 AM

Post #20 of 32 (2103 views)
Permalink

Re: For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost? [In reply to]

Brian Wood wrote:
>
>
> I for one would prefer the whole world not know what I have inside my home :-)
>
> Perhaps I'm being paranoid, but it never hurts to be careful.
>
>
While this is true there is also the fact that anyone entering my house
(many houses) without permission is taking a far bigger risk IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not banging my chest or drawing a line daring
anyone to cross it. I'm just pointing out that idiots that risk breaking
into houses are not likely to be the posters and readers of this list.

--
_________________________________________________________

Jim Morton

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Jim at Morton

Nov 24, 2009, 6:31 AM

Post #21 of 32 (2103 views)
Permalink

Re: For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost? [In reply to]

Bobby Gill wrote:
> I am curious what the total cost is/was for you to get everything up
> and running (asides from time, which depending on whom you are may be
> the priciest...).
>
> So for example, an HD capture card, a capable backend, the frontend(s)
> of course, the subscription to a provider and/or an antenna-- and if
> an antenna, did you do it yourself? Order it online, buy from a shop,
> hire someone to install, etc.? Not necessarily asking for the life
> story but some brief explanation of the components as I'm really
> trying to get a gauge on what entering this arena may cost me, and
> whether it's /worth/ it or not...
>
>
$705 and some change. (In May and June of 2009. Myth went live here June
22, 2009.) Everything is a little cheaper now. I know because my wife
told me I spent over $1000 on it so I gathered up every receipt and
totaled them up just to prove her wrong. (I don't get to do that very
often, and before you ask, no proving her wrong wasn't worth it.)

But in all fairness about $130 of that was network infrastructure that
wasn't strictly needed but is a benefit and left me in a great position
to expand things and add frontends later. I'm not a big fan of wireless
and since I own my home I thought it wise to wire it. (In my mind
wireless is good for renters only.)

That includes building a hefty FE/BE box, an HDHR, an antenna for OTA,
two 8 port gigabit switches, Schedules Direct subscription, cat6 and
coax cabling and connectors, and even a few tools, etc. It does not
include my Samsung 42" tv which was right around $1300 a year ago. That
tv purchase is what started the ball rolling towards a Myth setup. That
also does not include the stereo that I run the tv sound through now
since I already owned that.

I did it all myself over about 2 months. From building the FE/BE to
installing the antenna to pulling cat-6 through the walls. There were
some frustrating days but I learned a lot and had a great deal of fun. I
would do it again in a heartbeat. The antenna I got was this one
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882790012 . All of
my OTA stations are within 10 degrees of each other so this antenna
works very well.

I got rid of an $84 a month cable bill. So in about 8 months I'll break
even. That's a pretty good payback in my thinking.

It was difficult at first giving up all those "good cable channels" but
with my current system we record more shows than we can watch so I think
program-wise it's all a wash. We never starve for something to watch and
never ever watch live tv anymore. Having an ever changing library of
shows to watch has become just so entirely a cool thing that it is
difficult to put into words. And I'm not a big tv watcher either. Maybe
1-2 hours a day at the most. My wife and kids just say it's "the bomb".
But I digress...

I didn't enter into this project trying to save money. I found the best
components I could and then evaluated the price/performance and
generally speaking bought premium stuff. I could probably have trimmed
off quite a bit if I had built an economy system.

--
_________________________________________________________

Jim Morton

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beww at beww

Nov 24, 2009, 7:04 AM

Post #22 of 32 (2113 views)
Permalink

Re: For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost? [In reply to]

On Tuesday 24 November 2009 07:31:28 Jim Morton wrote:
> Brian Wood wrote:
> > I for one would prefer the whole world not know what I have inside my
> > home :-)
> >
> > Perhaps I'm being paranoid, but it never hurts to be careful.
>
> While this is true there is also the fact that anyone entering my house
> (many houses) without permission is taking a far bigger risk IMO.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not banging my chest or drawing a line daring
> anyone to cross it. I'm just pointing out that idiots that risk breaking
> into houses are not likely to be the posters and readers of this list.

I certainly didn't mean to imply that anyone on this list might be a "bad
guy", I simply wanted to state a more general concept that everyone should be
careful what information they put out into the world.

Once posted, you can never take it back, and this list is archived so that
anyone may see what you posted years ago.

Also, information about who is doing what with HD material (aka "premium
content") might be used by the "dark forces" to assist in obtaining
legislation or other rulings that might not be in the best interests of the
users here.

This list is a great group, but archived information can be used by all,
including people (and corporations) who do not have out best interests at
heart.

I'm far more worried about losing my investment in Myth systems to people who
want to charge me three times for content than I am about people physically
breaking into my house. My pocket is far more likely to be picked by
politicians than by more common type criminals.

But the bottom line is, detailed explantions about how we all built our
systems are probably not the most useful way for people today to make
decisions about how to go about building a system. Many wrong turns and dead
ends can be avoided by looking at what the final results are, not the routes
we took to get there.

Costs are so variable with time and location that it's unlikely anyone would
be able to precisely duplicate them, and the present day cost of hardware is
easily determined without having to poll hundreds of users.

--
Brian Wood
beww [at] beww
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Jim at Morton

Nov 24, 2009, 8:05 AM

Post #23 of 32 (2103 views)
Permalink

Re: For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost? [In reply to]

Brian Wood wrote:
>
> But the bottom line is, detailed explantions about how we all built our
> systems are probably not the most useful way for people today to make
> decisions about how to go about building a system. Many wrong turns and dead
> ends can be avoided by looking at what the final results are, not the routes
> we took to get there.
>
> Costs are so variable with time and location that it's unlikely anyone would
> be able to precisely duplicate them, and the present day cost of hardware is
> easily determined without having to poll hundreds of users.
>
>
This is all true for the seasoned Myth user but for someone just getting
into it or considering getting in to it, real world costs are quite
valuable for putting things in perspective. The more recent the better.
The op is not looking for exact prices/specs in order to duplicate a
system. In fact, he did not ask for "detailed explanations about how we
all built our systems", he was trying to see the big picture and decide
if it is worth it for him. IMO there is no better way than to ask those
that have done it.

Me thinks you may want to re-read the original post. :-)

--
_________________________________________________________

Jim Morton

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beww at beww

Nov 24, 2009, 8:32 AM

Post #24 of 32 (2099 views)
Permalink

Re: For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost? [In reply to]

On Tuesday 24 November 2009 09:05:03 Jim Morton wrote:
> Brian Wood wrote:
> > But the bottom line is, detailed explantions about how we all built our
> > systems are probably not the most useful way for people today to make
> > decisions about how to go about building a system. Many wrong turns and
> > dead ends can be avoided by looking at what the final results are, not
> > the routes we took to get there.
> >
> > Costs are so variable with time and location that it's unlikely anyone
> > would be able to precisely duplicate them, and the present day cost of
> > hardware is easily determined without having to poll hundreds of users.
>
> This is all true for the seasoned Myth user but for someone just getting
> into it or considering getting in to it, real world costs are quite
> valuable for putting things in perspective. The more recent the better.
> The op is not looking for exact prices/specs in order to duplicate a
> system. In fact, he did not ask for "detailed explanations about how we
> all built our systems", he was trying to see the big picture and decide
> if it is worth it for him. IMO there is no better way than to ask those
> that have done it.
>
> Me thinks you may want to re-read the original post. :-)

True, I was just pointing out that cost info is very transient.

A lot of work has gone into posting information on the WiKi that should help a
lot in deciding what hardware to look at, anyone comtemplating building a
Myth system should spend time perusing that very useful site.

One thing people contemplating getting into Myth should relaize is that it is
generally NOT a way to save money on a DVR system. It's a way to get a
superior system with features not available elsewhere.

The Myth experience will be a lot smoother for people already familiar with
Linux. Those who choose Myth as their first Linux experience face a steep
learning curve, though of course many have successfully negotiated it.

--
Brian Wood
beww [at] beww
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doug at fawnanddoug

Nov 24, 2009, 8:36 AM

Post #25 of 32 (2097 views)
Permalink

Re: For HD Myth users, what is/was your cost? [In reply to]

> Bobby Gill wrote:
>> I am curious what the total cost is/was for you to get everything up
>> and running (asides from time, which depending on whom you are may be
>> the priciest...).
>>
>> So for example, an HD capture card, a capable backend, the frontend(s)
>> of course, the subscription to a provider and/or an antenna-- and if
>> an antenna, did you do it yourself? Order it online, buy from a shop,
>> hire someone to install, etc.? Not necessarily asking for the life
>> story but some brief explanation of the components as I'm really
>> trying to get a gauge on what entering this arena may cost me, and
>> whether it's /worth/ it or not...
>>
>>

A big step for me was recognizing that Myth is a hobby and not a cost
saving pursuit. I originally persuaded my wife with some (delusional)
math that building a Myth box would cost about the same as buying a TiVo +
lifetime subscription (~$500 at the time). Since then I have built and
rebuilt a number of boxes and am perpetually adding/changing something.

My point is, I think most people start off in the $500-$1000 range but it
will quickly grow as you want to add the hot new recording device or pop
an extra frontend in another room, etc etc.

In addition, I wouldn't discount the time factor. Myth (at least for me,
and I suspect many others) is a constant work in progress and not a
finished product. It requires tweaking and maintenance. Some people love
this (like me), but others may find it a burden. Part of the cost (a
large part for me) is keeping up with this maintenance and staying on top
of the lists and SVN, etc. I think the "worth it" aspect has a lot more
to do with the time investment than the dollars.

-D

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