Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Users

SF Bay Comcast Analog Armageddon Has Begun

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t004 at kbocek

Nov 23, 2009, 11:31 AM

Post #1 of 8 (903 views)
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SF Bay Comcast Analog Armageddon Has Begun

Looks like Comcast has finally executed the previously announced analog
shutdown in my part of the San Francisco Bay Area, Martinez 94553. This
probably also applies to nearby towns like Concord, Pleasant Hill and Walnut
Creek.

Analog channels from 40 and up are gone. I've waited a few days to see if it
was a temporary glitch but the channels are still gone.

The good news is that all the Clear QAM digital channels are still there so my
HD Homeruns are unaffected.

I've seen conflicting reports regarding Comcast's future ability to encrypt or
somehow encode those channels while still using the freebie digital adapter
boxes they provide. Anybody have any updates?
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mwood23 at gmail

Nov 23, 2009, 2:29 PM

Post #2 of 8 (864 views)
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Re: SF Bay Comcast Analog Armageddon Has Begun [In reply to]

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Kirk Bocek <t004 [at] kbocek> wrote:
> I've seen conflicting reports regarding Comcast's future ability to encrypt or
> somehow encode those channels while still using the freebie digital adapter
> boxes they provide. Anybody have any updates?

we went through this a few months back in SF 94110. So far, digital
working fine with my digital tuner card. But now that the FCC has
rolled over (yet again) and decided cable companies can encrypt
'premium basic' or whatever you call it, I don't expect the party to
last.

I don't like the idea of having to use the analog cable out from the
STB, and setting up IR blasting, or worse the composite video cable.
So I think when the hammer drops, I'm going to cancel Comcast and just
go OTA. Sure I'll miss having the convenience of channels like
Discovery, Bravo, A&E and some of the decent programming they have.
But I can get the shows from other sources. And I'll be saving ~$70 a
month.
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ross.campbell at gmail

Nov 23, 2009, 2:35 PM

Post #3 of 8 (863 views)
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Re: SF Bay Comcast Analog Armageddon Has Begun [In reply to]

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Kirk Bocek <t004 [at] kbocek> wrote:
> Looks like Comcast has finally executed the previously announced analog
> shutdown in my part of the San Francisco Bay Area, Martinez 94553. This
> probably also applies to nearby towns like Concord, Pleasant Hill and Walnut
> Creek.
>
> Analog channels from 40 and up are gone. I've waited a few days to see if it
> was a temporary glitch but the channels are still gone.

<rant>
I find it particularly insulting that Comcast is slowly crippling
their devices and services one zipcode at a time so that at any given
time only a handful of customers are screaming.

From my perspective, the logical outcome of the
DTV/HD/cablecard/encryption fiasco is that it will effectively kill
off cable TV (how would this impact broadcast TV?) due to unnecessary
complexity and accelerate everyone's move to streaming video sites --
which "just work" with no stupid cablecard, black box, black bars/box
around content, stretched out SD videos, medieval channel maps, etc.

Computer powerful enough to stream online video is less than most
people pay in a year for set top box rentals alone...

I hope Comcast doesn't succeed in buying NBC, getting a giant stake in
hulu.com, and wrecking that too.
</rant>

P.S. - Still love MythTV :)
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devin.heitmueller at gmail

Nov 23, 2009, 2:41 PM

Post #4 of 8 (865 views)
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Re: SF Bay Comcast Analog Armageddon Has Begun [In reply to]

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 5:35 PM, Ross Campbell <ross.campbell [at] gmail> wrote:
> <rant>
> I find it particularly insulting that Comcast is slowly crippling
> their devices and services one zipcode at a time so that at any given
> time only a handful of customers are screaming.
>
> From my perspective, the logical outcome of the
> DTV/HD/cablecard/encryption fiasco is that it will effectively kill
> off cable TV (how would this impact broadcast TV?) due to unnecessary
> complexity and accelerate everyone's move to streaming video sites --

This would be *your* desired outcome. In reality, the few people who
drop their cable service in response to this behavior will likely be
greatly outweighed by the revenue generated by all the nontechnical
users who went from renting zero cable boxes to renting three cable
boxes for each of the televisions in their household.

Sad, but probably the reality of it.

Devin

--
Devin J. Heitmueller
http://www.devinheitmueller.com
AIM: devinheitmueller
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jedi at mishnet

Nov 23, 2009, 3:41 PM

Post #5 of 8 (861 views)
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Re: SF Bay Comcast Analog Armageddon Has Begun [In reply to]

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 05:41:36PM -0500, Devin Heitmueller wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 5:35 PM, Ross Campbell <ross.campbell [at] gmail> wrote:
> > <rant>
> > I find it particularly insulting that Comcast is slowly crippling
> > their devices and services one zipcode at a time so that at any given
> > time only a handful of customers are screaming.
> >
> > From my perspective, the logical outcome of the
> > DTV/HD/cablecard/encryption fiasco is that it will effectively kill
> > off cable TV (how would this impact broadcast TV?) due to unnecessary
> > complexity and accelerate everyone's move to streaming video sites --
>
> This would be *your* desired outcome. In reality, the few people who
> drop their cable service in response to this behavior will likely be
> greatly outweighed by the revenue generated by all the nontechnical
> users who went from renting zero cable boxes to renting three cable
> boxes for each of the televisions in their household.
>
> Sad, but probably the reality of it.

I dunno. Digital opens up new possibilities. It makes something like
going strictly OTA seem a lot more feasable. I figure the customers that
are willing to put up with cable boxes all around the house have already
been renting them from cable company. I suspect that the digital switch
won't change anything in that regard.

[deletia]

Stagnation of devices caused by the lock-in of cable cards and the fact
that Tivo was pretty much handed a monopoly for 3rd party appliances might
induce some people to dump cable.

...someone is already building an OTA++ appliance. It basically sounds
like a cross between boxee and an OTA only PVR.
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tim at ashmans

Nov 23, 2009, 4:34 PM

Post #6 of 8 (857 views)
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Re: SF Bay Comcast Analog Armageddon Has Begun [In reply to]

On Monday 23 November 2009 02:35:50 pm Ross Campbell wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Kirk Bocek <t004 [at] kbocek> wrote:
> > Looks like Comcast has finally executed the previously announced analog
> > shutdown in my part of the San Francisco Bay Area, Martinez 94553. This
> > probably also applies to nearby towns like Concord, Pleasant Hill and
> > Walnut Creek.
> >
> > Analog channels from 40 and up are gone. I've waited a few days to see if
> > it was a temporary glitch but the channels are still gone.
>
> <rant>
> I find it particularly insulting that Comcast is slowly crippling
> their devices and services one zipcode at a time so that at any given
> time only a handful of customers are screaming.
>
> From my perspective, the logical outcome of the
> DTV/HD/cablecard/encryption fiasco is that it will effectively kill
> off cable TV (how would this impact broadcast TV?) due to unnecessary
> complexity and accelerate everyone's move to streaming video sites --
> which "just work" with no stupid cablecard, black box, black bars/box
> around content, stretched out SD videos, medieval channel maps, etc.
>
> Computer powerful enough to stream online video is less than most
> people pay in a year for set top box rentals alone...
>
> I hope Comcast doesn't succeed in buying NBC, getting a giant stake in
> hulu.com, and wrecking that too.
> </rant>
>
> P.S. - Still love MythTV :)

Sadly comcast doesn't care about people actually using the cable system like
before. They like most other distributors and that's what comcast is, want
to control the middle. The only way to do this is to force it's service
through their box that they control. I have not completely cancelled my
comcast since the analog cutoff (I'm in Portland also) But I have the
$16/month starter that doesn't require a box of any kind. I do this not
because I use the service but because if I cancel the cable completely
comcast will raise my internet bill by $12 for not having more than one
service. So for $4 I'll keep the starter. It only has the local channels
anyway, and I normally watch what I have recorded from my myth backend which
is NOT connected to my cable it is connected to an antenna receiving OTA. I
use the cable service only for sporting events, etc.

Comcast you suck.

tim

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t004 at kbocek

Nov 23, 2009, 10:05 PM

Post #7 of 8 (853 views)
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Re: SF Bay Comcast Analog Armageddon Has Begun [In reply to]

Gary Buhrmaster wrote:
>
> (full disclaimer, I am a Comcast Sunnyvale customer)
>
> I believe the status is still the same. The PACE DTA is not a full
> function box, and while it is capable of "encryption", it is not
> the full function QAM encyption (it is a fixed 56-bit DES key).
> Comcast got its waiver, so they can *choose* to start encryption
> at any time.
>
> http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=180850&site=cdn
>
> Since I recorded a show in the "expanded basic" tier yesterday
> via clear QAM, they have not (yet) chosen to do so, but could
> at any time.
>
> My *personal* opinion is that Comcast does not care a lot
> the (potential) minor loss of revenue for the few that
> might purchased only "basic" cable, and get the "expanded
> basic" for free using clear QAM(*). It is a minor loss of
> money. The real money is to get people to upgrade to
> full digital (and full HD) offerings, and the conversion
> to digital for the expanded basic channels is the way
> to get that capacity to make it a compelling product for a
> set of customers to spend real money. And while, with their
> waiver, Comcast will likely encrypt at some point after the
> rollouts are complete (which will make me sad, because my
> clear QAM tuners will no longer work), their business plan
> did not depend on getting the waiver. They were willing
> to just let the money go.
>
> [.Note that the SD HD Homeruns output the full transport
> stream, so brute forcing the 56 bit (fixed) DES key
> may occur as a bypass for some.]

Here's a thread on this subject:

http://www.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7331
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eric at lisaneric

Nov 24, 2009, 8:53 AM

Post #8 of 8 (814 views)
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Re: SF Bay Comcast Analog Armageddon Has Begun [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 1:05 AM, Kirk Bocek <t004 [at] kbocek> wrote:
>> [.Note that the SD HD Homeruns output the full transport
>> stream, so brute forcing the 56 bit (fixed) DES key
>> may occur as a bypass for some.]
>
> Here's a thread on this subject:
>
> http://www.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7331

I'm not sure the assertion in the first post of that thread is
correct: (This simple basic encryption scheme is only for the
"Expanded Basic" or B2 tier, channels 2 through 99 typically in an all
digital system which people are already paying for. If your not paying
for that, then you have a filter on the line or the line is not
connected at the tap, so no worries.)

My understanding for why Comcast was able to convince the FCC that it
could start encrypting these things was to eliminate the need for
these filters allowing them to send the same signal to both basic and
expanded basic customers.

Of course, we all understand that the real reason was the increased
revenue from renting more STBs.

Eric
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