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Graphics card recommendation needed (regarding tv-out quality)

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bit at birnehh

Nov 14, 2009, 4:57 PM

Post #1 of 12 (1167 views)
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Graphics card recommendation needed (regarding tv-out quality)

Hi,

I'm planning to build a combined front- and backend for my girlfriend
and I need a recommendation for a graphics card.

Are there PCIe cards with good tv-out quality (S-Video, SD) available?
I remember reading that newer cards are not as good as the old 5200
series. I tested a 7900 GS and quality was really bad.
But what about newer cards or other cards than NVIDIA based ones?
Are there cards that can be recommended?

A second option would be to use an AGP capable mainboard and use an old
5200, but it would have to be a microATX board. And that's also a
problem, because all boards seem to have PCIe nowadays. Is that true or
are microATX boards with AGP still sold?

Buying a new TV and going digital is currently no option.

Thanks,
Mike

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dliana.mythtv at gmail

Nov 14, 2009, 10:02 PM

Post #2 of 12 (1124 views)
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Re: Graphics card recommendation needed (regarding tv-out quality) [In reply to]

On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 7:57 PM, Mike Hoehn <bit [at] birnehh> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm planning to build a combined front- and backend for my girlfriend
> and I need a recommendation for a graphics card.
>
> Are there PCIe cards with good tv-out quality (S-Video, SD) available?
> I remember reading that newer cards are not as good as the old 5200
> series. I tested a 7900 GS and quality was really bad.
> But what about newer cards or other cards than NVIDIA based ones?
> Are there cards that can be recommended?
>
> A second option would be to use an AGP capable mainboard and use an old
> 5200, but it would have to be a microATX board. And that's also a
> problem, because all boards seem to have PCIe nowadays. Is that true or
> are microATX boards with AGP still sold?
>
> Buying a new TV and going digital is currently no option.
>

> Thanks,
> Mike
>

Hi Mike,

Best bet is to get something NVidia based that supports VDPAU....

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jarpublic at gmail

Nov 15, 2009, 7:27 AM

Post #3 of 12 (1110 views)
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Re: Graphics card recommendation needed (regarding tv-out quality) [In reply to]

> Best bet is to get something NVidia based that supports VDPAU....

I switched from a 5200 to a 8400 GS for my SD setup so I could use
VDPAU. The picture quality is much much better with VDPAU. Even though
it is going to an interlaced display I use the VDPAU Advanced 2x
deinterlacer and it is the best picture I have seen on my TV, even
better than straight from the cable. You will need to look at the
8xxx, 9xxx, or 2xx cards. For SD you can find an 8400 GS that would be
fine. If you want to be safe and future proof a little you are better
off getting a 9500 or 220 because they will support the best
deinterlacers with HD. See the wiki: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/VDPAU.
The driver support just isn't there yet with ATI, and Intel integrated
graphics just doesn't have the same level of hardware. So you aren't
going to do any better than you will get with nvidia VDPAU.
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bit at birnehh

Nov 15, 2009, 8:13 AM

Post #4 of 12 (1111 views)
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Re: Graphics card recommendation needed (regarding tv-out quality) [In reply to]

Johnny wrote:

> [...] You will need to look at the
> 8xxx, 9xxx, or 2xx cards. For SD you can find an 8400 GS that would be
> fine. If you want to be safe and future proof a little you are better
> off getting a 9500 or 220 because they will support the best
> deinterlacers with HD. [...]

Thanks for the clear statement. I'll probably try an 8xxx card, which
should be sufficient for the next 2 years.

Mike

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jarpublic at gmail

Nov 15, 2009, 6:20 PM

Post #5 of 12 (1070 views)
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Re: Graphics card recommendation needed (regarding tv-out quality) [In reply to]

> Thanks for the clear statement. I'll probably try an 8xxx card, which
> should be sufficient for the next 2 years.

I should clarify you need to go 8600/9600 or higher for HD Advanced
2x. Also don't put aside the 210 or the 220 too quickly they can be
found $30 and $50 respectively so it may be worth to just get the
newer cards. The 210 would be comparable to a 8400 and the 220 would
be comparable to a 8600/9600.
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mythtv at bektchiev

Nov 15, 2009, 8:08 PM

Post #6 of 12 (1075 views)
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Re: Graphics card recommendation needed (regarding tv-out quality) [In reply to]

On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Johnny <jarpublic [at] gmail> wrote:
>> Thanks for the clear statement. I'll probably try an 8xxx card, which
>> should be sufficient for the next 2 years.
>
> I should clarify you need to go 8600/9600 or higher for HD Advanced
> 2x. Also don't put aside the 210 or the 220 too quickly they can be
> found $30 and $50 respectively so it may be worth to just get the
> newer cards. The 210 would be comparable to a 8400 and the 220 would
> be comparable to a 8600/9600.

I'm not sure who came up with the idea that a 9500 cannot do HD Advanced 2x...
I have a Sparkle 9500GT (link:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187034 ) that
can do it without a hitch and according to the VDPAU performance test
with room to spare:
MIXER TEMPORAL (1920x1080): 212 fields/s
MIXER TEMPORAL + SKIP_CHROMA (1920x1080): 285 fields/s
MIXER TEMPORAL_SPATIAL (1920x1080): 81 fields/s
MIXER TEMPORAL_SPATIAL + SKIP_CHROMA (1920x1080): 90 fields/s

--dejan
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jarpublic at gmail

Nov 16, 2009, 7:04 AM

Post #7 of 12 (1049 views)
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Re: Graphics card recommendation needed (regarding tv-out quality) [In reply to]

> I'm not sure who came up with the idea that a 9500 cannot do HD Advanced 2x...
> I have a Sparkle 9500GT (link:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187034 ) that
> can do it without a hitch and according to the VDPAU performance test
> with room to spare:
> MIXER TEMPORAL (1920x1080): 212 fields/s
> MIXER TEMPORAL + SKIP_CHROMA (1920x1080): 285 fields/s
> MIXER TEMPORAL_SPATIAL (1920x1080): 81 fields/s
> MIXER TEMPORAL_SPATIAL + SKIP_CHROMA (1920x1080): 90 fields/s

Somebody wrote in the VDPAU wiki page that they get occasional stutter
with Advanced 2x. I don't know who wrote that, but that is what I was
going from. If enough people disagree maybe the wiki could be updated.
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bit at birnehh

Nov 17, 2009, 6:35 AM

Post #8 of 12 (1024 views)
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Re: Graphics card recommendation needed (regarding tv-out quality) [In reply to]

Johnny wrote:

> I should clarify you need to go 8600/9600 or higher for HD Advanced
> 2x. Also don't put aside the 210 or the 220 too quickly they can be
> found $30 and $50 respectively so it may be worth to just get the
> newer cards. The 210 would be comparable to a 8400 and the 220 would
> be comparable to a 8600/9600.

Ok... I ordered a 8400 anyway, because I'm sure it will be sufficient for
quite some time. And it's a little cheaper and power consumption should also
be a little less than with newer cards.

Low power consumption definitely raises the WAF. :) (I also ordered a 45W CPU,
not a 65W or even 95W one)

So, I'm pretty confident she will love it. My only concern was
video-quality...

Thanks,
Mike
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mrrooster at gmail

Nov 17, 2009, 7:58 AM

Post #9 of 12 (1013 views)
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Re: Graphics card recommendation needed (regarding tv-out quality) [In reply to]

2009/11/15 Mike Hoehn <bit [at] birnehh>

> Hi,
>

Hi Mike,

> [snip]
>
> Are there PCIe cards with good tv-out quality (S-Video, SD) available?
> I remember reading that newer cards are not as good as the old 5200
> series. I tested a 7900 GS and quality was really bad.
>
[snip]

Sorry if this is a little off topic, but how do you mean 'really bad'? I
used to use an ATI card (which was okay, but the tearing was unbearable in
the end) so I upgraded to an nVidia & series, which X claims to be a "NVIDIA
GPU GeForce 7900 GT/GTO (G71) at PCI:1:0:0 (GPU-0)"

I've not had too many issues with this, I think the picture quality (with
OpenGL rendering and a deinterlacer, although I forget exactly which one at
the moment and can't check.) is okay. It's a tiny bit smeary, but nothing
too unbearable.

The picture with VDPAU is almost perfect (although I have some issues with
VDPAU when the resolution of the source changes, eg, when CH4 show the
simpsons so I stick to Open GL.)

Am I missing something? What should I be looking for?

Sorry if this is a little off topic, I'm just worried I'm not getting the
best from my setup. (This is feeding a 29" 4:3 sony CRT TV via SVid, I can't
afford a new shiny HD telly yet. :) )

Cheers,

Ian

PS, FWIW, this is with the 190.18 beta drivers and a fairly recent myth from
trunk.

bit at birnehh

Nov 18, 2009, 12:53 AM

Post #10 of 12 (983 views)
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Re: Graphics card recommendation needed (regarding tv-out quality) [In reply to]

Ian Clark wrote:

> [NVIDIA 7900 GS]
> Sorry if this is a little off topic, but how do you mean 'really bad'? I

Colors looked like they were washed out. And bright colors all looked the same
(sort of white). They were hard to distinguish. Apart from that the picture
appeared to be smeary.

I'm sorry I can't give any advice, yet, other than that a 5200 is quite
excellent, and at least my 7900 GS is not. I haven't used MythTV for quite
some time, because of hardware issues.

Once I have the new myth box running I can probably say more.

Mike

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mrrooster at gmail

Nov 18, 2009, 3:27 AM

Post #11 of 12 (969 views)
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Re: Graphics card recommendation needed (regarding tv-out quality) [In reply to]

2009/11/18 Mike Hoehn <bit [at] birnehh>

> Ian Clark wrote:
>
> > [NVIDIA 7900 GS]
> > Sorry if this is a little off topic, but how do you mean 'really bad'? I
>
> Colors looked like they were washed out. And bright colors all looked the
> same
> (sort of white). They were hard to distinguish. Apart from that the picture
> appeared to be smeary.
>
> Looking further it would appear I'm using a 7800GT, via svidio, and I'm not
experiencing anything like that, it's maybe a bit smeary, but not anything
worse than I'd expect. (ie, it's the slight disparity between the size of my
screen and my TV and I can't be bothered to fiddle with the overscan it's
that insignificant.)

If you want info on my settings to try before you drop cash on a new gfx
card, then let me know. :)

Cheers,

Ian

bit at birnehh

Nov 20, 2009, 5:16 AM

Post #12 of 12 (871 views)
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Re: Graphics card recommendation needed (regarding tv-out quality) [In reply to]

Ian Clark wrote:

> Looking further it would appear I'm using a 7800GT, via svidio, and I'm
> not

Perhaps this is the reason why your picture quality is not as bad as mine. You
have a 7800 GT, not a 7900 GS. Perhaps it could also depend on the vendor,
what quality their video-outs have. But I'm just guessing...

> If you want info on my settings to try before you drop cash on a new gfx
> card, then let me know. :)

Thanks... I already dropped some cash on a new graphics card. It's probably
the cheapest part of what I ordered... :)

Mike
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