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[RFC] Proposed settings rework

  

 
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ron.garrison at gmail

Nov 5, 2009, 10:14 PM

Post #126 of 140 (286 views)
Permalink
Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]
There was a setting in .21 that I have not found in the .22 GUI (it
might be there but I haven't found it), but set in the database
directly. The Settings value is "EPGSortReverse".

This is a setting that I set opposite to the default and hope that
that ability would remain (it drives me nuts to press Ch+ and have the
slection go down). Prior to .21 I had "hacked" the code to flip it
myself (always vowing to do it properly with a database setting -
someone beat me to it)

Ron
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mtdean at thirdcontact

Nov 5, 2009, 10:29 PM

Post #127 of 140 (282 views)
Permalink
Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]
On 11/06/2009 01:14 AM, Ron Garrison wrote:
> There was a setting in .21 that I have not found in the .22 GUI (it
> might be there but I haven't found it), but set in the database
> directly. The Settings value is "EPGSortReverse".
>
> This is a setting that I set opposite to the default and hope that
> that ability would remain (it drives me nuts to press Ch+ and have the
> slection go down). Prior to .21 I had "hacked" the code to flip it
> myself (always vowing to do it properly with a database setting -
> someone beat me to it)

That's a setting done (half-way) right. It's not controlled by a widget
way over there in the settings screens, it's controlled directly inside
the EPG. By hitting TOGGLEEPGORDER (0), you can toggle the sort and it
saves it for you automatically.

The other half that's missing is putting the option into a location
accessible through the menu so it's easy to find.

Mike
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ron.garrison at gmail

Nov 5, 2009, 11:32 PM

Post #128 of 140 (282 views)
Permalink
Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]
On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Michael T. Dean
<mtdean[at]thirdcontact.com> wrote:
> On 11/06/2009 01:14 AM, Ron Garrison wrote:
>>
>> There was a setting in .21 that I have not found in the .22 GUI (it
>> might be there but I haven't found it), but set in the database
>> directly.  The Settings value is "EPGSortReverse".
>>
>> This is a setting that I set opposite to the default and hope that
>> that ability would remain (it drives me nuts to press Ch+ and have the
>> slection go down).  Prior to .21 I had "hacked" the code to flip it
>> myself (always vowing to do it properly with a database setting -
>> someone beat me to it)
>
> That's a setting done (half-way) right.  It's not controlled by a widget way
> over there in the settings screens, it's controlled directly inside the EPG.
>  By hitting TOGGLEEPGORDER (0), you can toggle the sort and it saves it for
> you automatically.
>
> The other half that's missing is putting the option into a location
> accessible through the menu so it's easy to find.
>
> Mike


Actually its not missing. I never thought to hit menu while in the
EPG, But its there. I also hadn't realized there was a keybinding
for it. Thanks.

Ron
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dlknight at sdf

Nov 6, 2009, 2:57 AM

Post #129 of 140 (274 views)
Permalink
Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]
On Fri, November 6, 2009 12:58 am, Nick Rout wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Richard Morton
> <richard.e.morton[at]gmail.com> wrote:
>> maybe this is a little ambitious, but a communit submission of
>> settings by trusted members may be workable in the following
>> scenario...
>>
>> create profiles that meet requirements:
>> - Freeview in the UK (DVB-Tv UK profile using EIT)
>> � - using certain **very** supported v4l cards such as the hauppauge
>> Nova-T500
>> - freesat
>> � �- using dvb-s hauppauge card
>>
>> the idea being reducing the barriers to entry by creating presets for
>> common scenarios so that user can find it eaier - if having certain
>> sets of hardware. Lets be frank to setup a myth box people have
>> usually bought hardware specifically for the job, and therefore lets
>> get those users up and running quickly, once they have it working
>> maybe they'll work with it to tweak there settings and maybe help us
>> to create profle (such as dvb-t in the uk with a profile for radio
>> times xml feed, or a profile for freesat with radiotime, etc.). I am
>> not saying that we should remove the capability to "tinker", but
>> merely introduce more to mythtv, as it works so well out of the box
>> and so that they are intrigued enough to tinker and assist...
>>
>> More user equals more feedback and assistance, surely ????
>
> How many transmitters are there for DVB-T in the UK?
>
>

Hi Nick,

There is a PDF on the following website which lists the active Digital
transmitters in the UK:

http://www.dtg.org.uk/industry/transmitters.html




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xavier.hervy at bluebottle

Nov 6, 2009, 4:18 AM

Post #130 of 140 (274 views)
Permalink
Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]
Johnny wrote:
>
> It seems to me that the whole idea of playback groups would be to
> handle stuff like this. However, the current playback groups
> implementation was only given a minimum set of options. This leads to
> a lot of confusion as demonstrated by the fact the there have been 2
> separate posts in the last two days about how to change the skip/jump
> times. These and one or two other settings are in playback groups.
> This is confusing because all of the other related settings like ffwd,
> commercial skip, etc are in the regular playback settings. So it just
> isn't intuitive why a few settings would be exclusively in a playback
> group while others are in the regular playback settings.
>
> It would be much more user friendly and intuitive if all of the
> playback settings were put in a default playback group, so the
> settings are all together in a logical organization. Then I could add
> additional playback groups where I could change any of the playback
> settings I want (aspect ratio, fill, time stretch, commercial
> skipping, playback profile, etc). There is already functionality to
> assign a playback group in my recording rules. So in the default case
> the user wouldn't even need to be aware of or look at playback groups,
> but others who want special settings for given recordings would have
> that available. All of this is already mostly implemented it just
> needs to go all the way.
>
+1
I wanted to set up a playback group to handle the 14/9 + stretch half I
like to do on some of my recording, to discover that playback group does
not support it.
Would be also nice if the playback group settings could be different
regarding the frontend. Depending if my frontend is in 16/9 or 4/3, I do
not change the aspect ratio + scretch the same way.

Xavier


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mythtv-users2 at dwilga-linux1

Nov 6, 2009, 6:39 AM

Post #131 of 140 (265 views)
Permalink
Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]
At 2:03 PM -0500 11/5/09, Johnny wrote:
>It would be much more user friendly and intuitive if all of the
>playback settings were put in a default playback group, so the
>settings are all together in a logical organization. Then I could add
>additional playback groups where I could change any of the playback
>settings I want (aspect ratio, fill, time stretch, commercial
>skipping, playback profile, etc).

+1
--
Dan Wilga "Ook."
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nick.rout at gmail

Nov 6, 2009, 1:07 PM

Post #132 of 140 (252 views)
Permalink
Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]
On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 11:57 PM, David Knight <dlknight[at]sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:
> On Fri, November 6, 2009 12:58 am, Nick Rout wrote:
>> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Richard Morton
>> <richard.e.morton[at]gmail.com> wrote:
>>> maybe this is a little ambitious, but a communit submission of
>>> settings by trusted members may be workable in the following
>>> scenario...
>>>
>>> create profiles that meet requirements:
>>> - Freeview in the UK (DVB-Tv UK profile using EIT)
>>> � - using certain **very** supported v4l cards such as the hauppauge
>>> Nova-T500
>>> - freesat
>>> � �- using dvb-s hauppauge card
>>>
>>> the idea being reducing the barriers to entry by creating presets for
>>> common scenarios so that user can find it eaier - if having certain
>>> sets of hardware. Lets be frank to setup a myth box people have
>>> usually bought hardware specifically for the job, and therefore lets
>>> get those users up and running quickly, once they have it working
>>> maybe they'll work with it to tweak there settings and maybe help us
>>> to create profle (such as dvb-t in the uk with a profile for radio
>>> times xml feed, or a profile for freesat with radiotime, etc.). I am
>>> not saying that we should remove the capability to "tinker", but
>>> merely introduce more to mythtv, as it works so well out of the box
>>> and so that they are intrigued enough to tinker and assist...
>>>
>>> More user equals more feedback and assistance, surely ????
>>
>> How many transmitters are there for DVB-T in the UK?
>>
>>
>
> Hi Nick,
>
>    There is a PDF on the following website which lists the active Digital
> transmitters in the UK:
>
> http://www.dtg.org.uk/industry/transmitters.html
>
>

I don't really care how many there are. My point is that no one
template can fit all.
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mtdean at thirdcontact

Nov 6, 2009, 5:17 PM

Post #133 of 140 (246 views)
Permalink
Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]
On 11/06/2009 02:32 AM, Ron Garrison wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>
>> On 11/06/2009 01:14 AM, Ron Garrison wrote:
>>
>>> There was a setting in .21 that I have not found in the .22 GUI (it
>>> might be there but I haven't found it), but set in the database
>>> directly. The Settings value is "EPGSortReverse".
>>>
>>> This is a setting that I set opposite to the default and hope that
>>> that ability would remain (it drives me nuts to press Ch+ and have the
>>> slection go down). Prior to .21 I had "hacked" the code to flip it
>>> myself (always vowing to do it properly with a database setting -
>>> someone beat me to it)
>>>
>> That's a setting done (half-way) right. It's not controlled by a widget way
>> over there in the settings screens, it's controlled directly inside the EPG.
>> By hitting TOGGLEEPGORDER (0), you can toggle the sort and it saves it for
>> you automatically.
>>
>> The other half that's missing is putting the option into a location
>> accessible through the menu so it's easy to find.
>>
> Actually its not missing. I never thought to hit menu while in the
> EPG, But its there. I also hadn't realized there was a keybinding
> for it. Thanks.

Great. That must mean that when Stuart and/or Paul ported the EPG to
mythui, they added the menu--because I'm almost positive there is no
menu in the EPG in 0.21-fixes.

So, turns out it's a setting done completely right. :)

Mike
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ajlill at ajlc

Nov 9, 2009, 9:35 AM

Post #134 of 140 (211 views)
Permalink
Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]
Brian Wood <beww[at]beww.org> writes:

> On Thursday 05 November 2009 10:54:15 Tony Lill wrote:
>> I've often though that commercial skip should be a per-channel flag,
>> not to complicate things or anything!
>
> There is some setting to tell the system whether or not a channel has
> commercials or not, would that do what you want?

No, on some channels, mythtv is almost perfect in it's ability to find
and skip commercials, on other channels, not so much. It would be nice
to be able to turn on autoskip for the channels where commercial
detection is good, and leave it off for the rest.

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cpinkham at bc2va

Nov 9, 2009, 10:58 AM

Post #135 of 140 (202 views)
Permalink
Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]
* On Mon Nov 09, 2009 at 12:35:05PM -0500, Tony Lill wrote:
> No, on some channels, mythtv is almost perfect in it's ability to find
> and skip commercials, on other channels, not so much. It would be nice
> to be able to turn on autoskip for the channels where commercial
> detection is good, and leave it off for the rest.

The problem is this is one of those slippery settings slopes
(SSS for short) :)

Some people want auto-skip on per channel,
some people want auto-skip on per scheduled recording,
some people want auto-skip on per playback group,
some people want auto-skip on per program title,
etc..

Sometimes we have a hard time getting across to someone the fact
that auto-transcode has to be on for a scheduled recording and
for a recording profile, imagine how hard it would be to explain
auto-skip based in the above scenario. :)

--
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jarpublic at gmail

Nov 9, 2009, 11:35 AM

Post #136 of 140 (202 views)
Permalink
Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]
> The problem is this is one of those slippery settings slopes
> (SSS for short) :)
>
> Some people want auto-skip on per channel,
> some people want auto-skip on per scheduled recording,
> some people want auto-skip on per playback group,
> some people want auto-skip on per program title,
> etc..
>
> Sometimes we have a hard time getting across to someone the fact
> that auto-transcode has to be on for a scheduled recording and
> for a recording profile, imagine how hard it would be to explain
> auto-skip based in the above scenario. :)

Yes, it reminds me of Arrow's Impossiblity Theorem
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow%27s_impossibility_theorem). He
basically proved that it is impossible for a group to come to
consensus on their preferences. So I am sympathetic to the challenge
of even discussing this with the users as a whole. I only brought up
the playback groups because they do have some promise. They already
have the functionality to be applied to recording rules. So you can
handle per playback group. The per recording, and per title would be
handled by using playback groups in your recording rules. The per
channel would be nice but you can still handle it by adding a playback
group to your recording rules on that channel.

Regardless of the commercial-skip issue, the playback groups are
confusing the way they are. Other mythtv groups (e.g. storage groups,
recording groups) have a default group that is used. It would be
consistent to just have the default playback group that had all of the
playback settings (rather than a random few). Then additional groups
could be added for those more advanced users who want to do the custom
stuff. I think this would simplify things for the new/simple user, by
having all of the logically related playback settings in one place,
rather than split up in playback groups, general settings, and
playback settings the way it is now. Again the playback groups are
already in place, this is just a matter of moving the settings into
the playback group. To me, it seems like one of those rare cases that
simplifies things while still adding greater functionality.
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xavier.hervy at bluebottle

Nov 9, 2009, 3:19 PM

Post #137 of 140 (197 views)
Permalink
Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]
Johnny wrote:
>
> Yes, it reminds me of Arrow's Impossiblity Theorem
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow%27s_impossibility_theorem). He
> basically proved that it is impossible for a group to come to
> consensus on their preferences. So I am sympathetic to the challenge
> of even discussing this with the users as a whole. I only brought up
> the playback groups because they do have some promise. They already
> have the functionality to be applied to recording rules. So you can
> handle per playback group. The per recording, and per title would be
> handled by using playback groups in your recording rules. The per
> channel would be nice but you can still handle it by adding a playback
> group to your recording rules on that channel.
>
> Regardless of the commercial-skip issue, the playback groups are
> confusing the way they are. Other mythtv groups (e.g. storage groups,
> recording groups) have a default group that is used. It would be
> consistent to just have the default playback group that had all of the
> playback settings (rather than a random few). Then additional groups
> could be added for those more advanced users who want to do the custom
> stuff. I think this would simplify things for the new/simple user, by
> having all of the logically related playback settings in one place,
> rather than split up in playback groups, general settings, and
> playback settings the way it is now. Again the playback groups are
> already in place, this is just a matter of moving the settings into
> the playback group. To me, it seems like one of those rare cases that
> simplifies things while still adding greater functionality.
>
Completely agree with this, more powerful, less confusing

xavier
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cpinkham at bc2va

Nov 9, 2009, 8:24 PM

Post #138 of 140 (187 views)
Permalink
Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]
* On Mon Nov 09, 2009 at 02:35:44PM -0500, Johnny wrote:
> of even discussing this with the users as a whole. I only brought up
> the playback groups because they do have some promise. They already
> have the functionality to be applied to recording rules. So you can

A couple other possibilities (and something I think we'd be open to
applying a patch for) would be to give the user the ability to:

1) choose a playback group to play a recording with from the Watch
Recordings popup Menu.

2) allow the user to pick a playback group from the OSD popup menu
during playback.

or maybe even a third option, to apply a playback group to a recording
group. Maybe your wife wants 60/5 FFW/REW skip and no auto-skip and
you want 120/10 FFW/REW w/ auto-skip turned on.

> Regardless of the commercial-skip issue, the playback groups are
> confusing the way they are. Other mythtv groups (e.g. storage groups,
> recording groups) have a default group that is used. It would be
> consistent to just have the default playback group that had all of the
> playback settings (rather than a random few). Then additional groups

I have a 'Default' Playback Group, it's title is empty, so as far as I
know, it applies to all recordings. I'm not sure what you're talking
about with this.

I do agree more playback controls could move into Playback Groups.
Patches welcome. The current implemention was a starting point, we're
normally open to enhancements. :)

--
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jarpublic at gmail

Nov 9, 2009, 8:37 PM

Post #139 of 140 (187 views)
Permalink
Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]
> I have a 'Default' Playback Group, it's title is empty, so as far as I
> know, it applies to all recordings.  I'm not sure what you're talking
> about with this.

Yeah, sorry that was confusing. I forgot there was a default group. I
was mostly trying to frame the later point that all of the playback
settings could be in that group.

> I do agree more playback controls could move into Playback Groups.
> Patches welcome.  The current implemention was a starting point, we're
> normally open to enhancements. :)

Yes, I recall someone commenting once that they had created the
playback groups for their specific use case. So they put the settings
and functionality they needed in, and left it at that. That is
certainly fair, but in terms of usability it has left the settings a
little fragmented now. And I have often thought of cases such as the
ones I have mentioned (and you mentioned some new ones I hadn't
thought of) that seem perfectly suited to playback groups but the
setting just isn't available within playback groups. If I could get my
thesis finished and learn enough C++ I think this is one of the first
things I would look at helping out with. Maybe I am naive or mistaken,
but it seems like a simple enough change.
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david at istwok

Nov 11, 2009, 12:50 PM

Post #140 of 140 (128 views)
Permalink
Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]
On Mon, Nov 09, 2009 at 11:24:48PM -0500, Chris Pinkham wrote:
> I do agree more playback controls could move into Playback Groups.
> Patches welcome. The current implemention was a starting point, we're
> normally open to enhancements. :)

I suppose I should jump into this thread.

The playback group API was inentionally made extensible so other settings
could eventually be added. The DB schema, however, is not very
scalable at all and would have to be redone if a lot of settings are
added. The reason is I never expected, and still don't intend, for
playback groups to become the home for any and every playback related
setting. I feel playback groups should remain limited to a fairly
small number of settings that can't be handled better in other ways.

Now, I must admit that having a handful of playback settings separated
from other related settings just because they are playback group
settings is confusing. I think that could be remedied by adding those
settings back in the normal place, and having them automatically tied
to the Default playback group.

David
--
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