Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Users

.22 Missing menu - Key right

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cp at ccil

Nov 3, 2009, 2:12 AM

Post #1 of 20 (1333 views)
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.22 Missing menu - Key right

When a recording was highlighted and one entered the "right" key another
menu would appear. Without it one remote we have can't delete a recording
without backing out to Manage Recordings, or put another way some family
members will never delete anything...

Another thing I would occasionally use that missing menu for was to change
the recording priority of something I watched. This was to allow other
family members to watch it and if they didn't delete it the autoexpire will
delete it sooner rather than later.

I also can't figure out how I will transcode at the high, med and low
settings I have setup. For example prior to archiving files to DVD I like to
do the high or lossless transcode. How do I transcode at the high medium
and low settings?

Thanks,
Chuck

mtdean at thirdcontact

Nov 3, 2009, 2:35 AM

Post #2 of 20 (1314 views)
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Re: .22 Missing menu - Key right [In reply to]

On 11/03/2009 05:12 AM, Chuck Peters wrote:
> When a recording was highlighted and one entered the "right" key
> another menu would appear. Without it one remote we have can't delete
> a recording without backing out to Manage Recordings, or put another
> way some family members will never delete anything...
>
> Another thing I would occasionally use that missing menu for was to
> change the recording priority of something I watched. This was to
> allow other family members to watch it and if they didn't delete it
> the autoexpire will delete it sooner rather than later.
>
> I also can't figure out how I will transcode at the high, med and low
> settings I have setup. For example prior to archiving files to DVD I
> like to do the high or lossless transcode. How do I transcode at the
> high medium and low settings?

Hit INFO (i). The arrow key accelerators were removed because
right/left only work for vertical lists and since Myth can now have
vertical or horizontal lists...

Mike
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william_munson at comcast

Nov 3, 2009, 1:42 PM

Post #3 of 20 (1289 views)
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Re: .22 Missing menu - Key right [In reply to]

Michael T. Dean wrote:
> On 11/03/2009 05:12 AM, Chuck Peters wrote:
>> When a recording was highlighted and one entered the "right" key
>> another menu would appear. Without it one remote we have can't
>> delete a recording without backing out to Manage Recordings, or put
>> another way some family members will never delete anything...
>> Another thing I would occasionally use that missing menu for was to
>> change the recording priority of something I watched. This was to
>> allow other family members to watch it and if they didn't delete it
>> the autoexpire will delete it sooner rather than later.
>>
>> I also can't figure out how I will transcode at the high, med and low
>> settings I have setup. For example prior to archiving files to DVD I
>> like to do the high or lossless transcode. How do I transcode at the
>> high medium and low settings?
>
> Hit INFO (i). The arrow key accelerators were removed because
> right/left only work for vertical lists and since Myth can now have
> vertical or horizontal lists...
>
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
I personally hate the horizontal lists and would gladly do without those
themes to get back the right arrow menu. This is easily the biggest
foobar in .22 Is there a patch to restore that function. I used the
mythbuntu theme exclusively and would have no problem deleting graphite
and the other horizontal themes. The WAF for those themes is 0. My
acceptance factor for them is also 0. They are crowded, hard to read and
ugly!!!! Right now WAF still quite low in general since she can no
longer easily delete recordings. The I key is not bound to anything on
the remote and there are no keys left to be assigned to that function so
its impossible to delete a recording. This is a major hassle since our
station frequently changes the programming to a local event and never
sends in an update to the tv guide providers so we end up recording
something other than the desired program. The only option then is to
delete and allow to record again. Then it will catch the west coast
timeslot and rerecord. Of course, thats impossible with the remote so
she needs to go into the computer closet and switch the keyboard to the
myth computer to hit the i key and can then go back into the living room
and use the remote to navigate. A totally foobar setup.

William

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jppoet at gmail

Nov 3, 2009, 1:53 PM

Post #4 of 20 (1288 views)
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Re: .22 Missing menu - Key right [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 2:42 PM, William <william_munson [at] comcast> wrote:
> I personally hate the horizontal lists and would gladly do without those
> themes to get back the right arrow menu. This is easily the biggest foobar
> in .22 Is there a patch to restore that function. I used the mythbuntu theme
> exclusively and would have no problem deleting graphite and the other
> horizontal themes. The WAF for those themes is 0. My acceptance factor for
> them is also 0. They are crowded, hard to read and ugly!!!! Right now WAF
> still quite low in general since she can no longer easily delete recordings.
> The I key is not bound to anything on the remote and there are no keys left
> to be assigned to that function so its impossible to delete a recording.
> This is a major hassle since our station frequently changes the programming
> to a local event and never sends in an update to the tv guide providers so
> we end up recording something other than the desired program. The only
> option then is to delete and allow to record again. Then it will catch the
> west coast timeslot and rerecord. Of course, thats impossible with the
> remote so she needs to go into the computer closet and switch the keyboard
> to the myth computer to hit the i key and can then go back into the living
> room and use the remote to navigate. A totally foobar setup.

Sorry, but that paragraph was so hard to read, that I gave up after
the first couple of "sentences".

John
--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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mtdean at thirdcontact

Nov 3, 2009, 1:55 PM

Post #5 of 20 (1300 views)
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Re: .22 Missing menu - Key right [In reply to]

On 11/03/2009 04:42 PM, William wrote:
> I personally hate the horizontal lists and would gladly do without
> those themes to get back the right arrow menu. This is easily the
> biggest foobar in .22 Is there a patch to restore that function. I
> used the mythbuntu theme exclusively and would have no problem
> deleting graphite and the other horizontal themes. The WAF for those
> themes is 0. My acceptance factor for them is also 0. They are
> crowded, hard to read and ugly!!!!

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythUI_Theme_Development
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythUI

And remember that people put somewhere greater than 100hours of their
own personal free time into creating those themes that you're calling
ugly. Those people read these lists. While you don't have to like the
themes they create, please--at the very least--show some respect for the
effort they put in and the fact that they gave you the results at
absolutely no charge.

Mike
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mythtv at theseekerr

Nov 3, 2009, 1:59 PM

Post #6 of 20 (1299 views)
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Re: .22 Missing menu - Key right [In reply to]

>
> Hit INFO (i). The arrow key accelerators were removed because right/left
>> only work for vertical lists and since Myth can now have vertical or
>> horizontal lists...
>>
>> Mike
>> _______________________________________________
>> mythtv-users mailing list
>> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
>> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>>
>> I personally hate the horizontal lists and would gladly do without those
> themes to get back the right arrow menu. This is easily the biggest foobar
> in .22 Is there a patch to restore that function. I used the mythbuntu theme
> exclusively and would have no problem deleting graphite and the other
> horizontal themes. The WAF for those themes is 0. My acceptance factor for
> them is also 0. They are crowded, hard to read and ugly!!!! Right now WAF
> still quite low in general since she can no longer easily delete recordings.
> The I key is not bound to anything on the remote and there are no keys left
> to be assigned to that function so its impossible to delete a recording.
> This is a major hassle since our station frequently changes the programming
> to a local event and never sends in an update to the tv guide providers so
> we end up recording something other than the desired program. The only
> option then is to delete and allow to record again. Then it will catch the
> west coast timeslot and rerecord. Of course, thats impossible with the
> remote so she needs to go into the computer closet and switch the keyboard
> to the myth computer to hit the i key and can then go back into the living
> room and use the remote to navigate. A totally foobar setup.
>
> William

Unfortunately for you, a lot of users DO like the horizontal themes.

Why not set up mythweb for such management tasks? Surely it doesn't happen
so often that you NEED to be able to do it without ever leaving your chair.

jaybroussard at gmail

Nov 3, 2009, 2:05 PM

Post #7 of 20 (1287 views)
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Re: .22 Missing menu - Key right [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 3:59 PM, Christopher Kerr <mythtv [at] theseekerr>wrote:

> Hit INFO (i). The arrow key accelerators were removed because right/left
>>> only work for vertical lists and since Myth can now have vertical or
>>> horizontal lists...
>>>
>>> Mike
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mythtv-users mailing list
>>> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
>>> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>>>
>>> I personally hate the horizontal lists and would gladly do without those
>> themes to get back the right arrow menu. This is easily the biggest foobar
>> in .22 Is there a patch to restore that function. I used the mythbuntu theme
>> exclusively and would have no problem deleting graphite and the other
>> horizontal themes. The WAF for those themes is 0. My acceptance factor for
>> them is also 0. They are crowded, hard to read and ugly!!!! Right now WAF
>> still quite low in general since she can no longer easily delete recordings.
>> The I key is not bound to anything on the remote and there are no keys left
>> to be assigned to that function so its impossible to delete a recording.
>> This is a major hassle since our station frequently changes the programming
>> to a local event and never sends in an update to the tv guide providers so
>> we end up recording something other than the desired program. The only
>> option then is to delete and allow to record again. Then it will catch the
>> west coast timeslot and rerecord. Of course, thats impossible with the
>> remote so she needs to go into the computer closet and switch the keyboard
>> to the myth computer to hit the i key and can then go back into the living
>> room and use the remote to navigate. A totally foobar setup.
>>
>> William
>
>
> Unfortunately for you, a lot of users DO like the horizontal themes.
>
> Why not set up mythweb for such management tasks? Surely it doesn't happen
> so often that you NEED to be able to do it without ever leaving your chair.
>
>
>
I can understand William's point, if not his delivery. Are you saying you
never delete a recording from the Watch Recording menu?

Personally, I think the guy should just consider investing in a better
remote.

robert.mcnamara at gmail

Nov 3, 2009, 2:07 PM

Post #8 of 20 (1293 views)
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Re: .22 Missing menu - Key right [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Jay Broussard <jaybroussard [at] gmail> wrote:
>
> I can understand William's point, if not his delivery.� Are you saying you
> never delete a recording from the Watch Recording menu?
>

I suspect those people probably just press whatever is bound to INFO. :)

Robert
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fsquires at gmail

Nov 3, 2009, 2:18 PM

Post #9 of 20 (1300 views)
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Re: .22 Missing menu - Key right [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Robert McNamara
<robert.mcnamara [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Jay Broussard <jaybroussard [at] gmail> wrote:
>>
>> I can understand William's point, if not his delivery.� Are you saying you
>> never delete a recording from the Watch Recording menu?
>>
>
> I suspect those people probably just press whatever is bound to INFO. :)
>
> Robert

Personally, I've always used the info button and was surprised
recently when I realized that the right arrow key brought up the menu,
and I've been using MythTV since .16.

I would suggest setting the recording to prompt you to delete the
recording when you reach the end. I always skip to the end of the
recording, which then pops the menu up. Also I have channel up and
down set to skip forward and backward by 10 minutes when watching
recordings, so a couple channel downs and you're at the end of the
recording even when you realize you don't need it at the beginning.
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william_munson at comcast

Nov 3, 2009, 2:21 PM

Post #10 of 20 (1286 views)
Permalink

Re: .22 Missing menu - Key right [In reply to]

Michael T. Dean wrote:
> On 11/03/2009 04:42 PM, William wrote:
>> I personally hate the horizontal lists and would gladly do without
>> those themes to get back the right arrow menu. This is easily the
>> biggest foobar in .22 Is there a patch to restore that function. I
>> used the mythbuntu theme exclusively and would have no problem
>> deleting graphite and the other horizontal themes. The WAF for those
>> themes is 0. My acceptance factor for them is also 0. They are
>> crowded, hard to read and ugly!!!!
>
> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythUI_Theme_Development
> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythUI
>
> And remember that people put somewhere greater than 100hours of their
> own personal free time into creating those themes that you're calling
> ugly. Those people read these lists. While you don't have to like
> the themes they create, please--at the very least--show some respect
> for the effort they put in and the fact that they gave you the results
> at absolutely no charge.
>
>
I appreciate the effort they put into them however I feel that it was a
misguided or incomplete effort. A better option would have been to make
the menu work as usual in the normal themes and do something different
in the new ones. I realize that this is a free program and that much
hard work has gone into it. I personally have given over 4 years to this
project, supporting people on the list, writing support scripts and
drivers. I know my coding skills are not up to the developer level
however I feel that I have a right to voice my opinion. The devs are
welcome to ignore or to criticize me for my comments, that is their
right and privilege. My plans are to try to find or develop a
unofficial patch for those who desire, like me, to have the old
functionality back.

William

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nick.rout at gmail

Nov 3, 2009, 2:22 PM

Post #11 of 20 (1284 views)
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Re: .22 Missing menu - Key right [In reply to]

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Robert McNamara
<robert.mcnamara [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Jay Broussard <jaybroussard [at] gmail> wrote:
>>
>> I can understand William's point, if not his delivery.� Are you saying you
>> never delete a recording from the Watch Recording menu?
>>
>
> I suspect those people probably just press whatever is bound to INFO. :)
>
> Robert

I have to say that the new behaviour (as I have seen described as I
haven't updated yet) is similar to xbmc where left and right cycle
between the panes and the 'context' button brings up a menu, the
'menu' button brings up another menu.

Its a matter of taste and getting used to something new. But its not
the end of the world as some people predict....
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mtdean at thirdcontact

Nov 3, 2009, 2:39 PM

Post #12 of 20 (1285 views)
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Re: .22 Missing menu - Key right [In reply to]

On 11/03/2009 05:22 PM, Nick Rout wrote:
> Its a matter of taste and getting used to something new. But its not
> the end of the world as some people predict....

Completely agree. It's amazing how quickly you adapt--just takes a
couple of evenings of TV watching (and appropriate remote mappings).

Note, also, that just because your remote mappings were good for 0.21,
that doesn't mean they don't need (or deserve) editing for 0.22. (And,
when 0.23 comes out...)

Mike
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mitchell.gore at gmail

Nov 3, 2009, 3:14 PM

Post #13 of 20 (1284 views)
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Re: .22 Missing menu - Key right [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Michael T. Dean <mtdean [at] thirdcontact>wrote:

> On 11/03/2009 05:22 PM, Nick Rout wrote:
>
>> Its a matter of taste and getting used to something new. But its not
>> the end of the world as some people predict....
>>
>
> Completely agree. It's amazing how quickly you adapt--just takes a couple
> of evenings of TV watching (and appropriate remote mappings).
>
> Note, also, that just because your remote mappings were good for 0.21, that
> doesn't mean they don't need (or deserve) editing for 0.22. (And, when 0.23
> comes out...)
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
>

I pretty mcuh feel the same way. right arrow vs info was no big deal to
transition to.

I also agree with William in the horzontal themes do stink but I never go so
upset to post a email thrashing the devs, i simply just went back to
blootube-wide.

--
Mitchell

robert.mcnamara at gmail

Nov 3, 2009, 3:50 PM

Post #14 of 20 (1282 views)
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Re: .22 Missing menu - Key right [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 4:14 PM, Mitch Gore <mitchell.gore [at] gmail> wrote:
> I pretty mcuh feel the same way. �right arrow vs info was no big deal to
> transition to.
>
> I also agree with William in the horzontal themes do stink but I never go so
> upset to post a email thrashing the devs, i simply just went back to
> blootube-wide.
>

Now I just *know* that people who are intelligent enough to get a
beast like MythTV installed can find more tactful language than
"stink."

"Not to my liking"
"Not my style"
"too different for me"

But I guess it wouldn't be the internet if people couldn't post
discourteous language with no fear of being called on it...

Robert
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justin0hornsby at gmail

Nov 3, 2009, 4:19 PM

Post #15 of 20 (1283 views)
Permalink

Re: .22 Missing menu - Key right [In reply to]

I knew this would be a bone of contention as soon as I found out about
it all those months ago when it was first put in place. But, think
about this:

The main reason it was there in the first place was because we need
two menus in so many places, hence two menu buttons. How many remotes
have two menu buttons? So, you lose an 'info' button to the 'info
menu'. Great, except now you need to find a button to map to U
(Details) if you use that feature a lot. Up to 0.21 it was a PITA to
press INFO, then go into 'recording options' (wth?) and select 'show
programme details') . Sure now it's been moved but..

I've done some work on getting rid of the INFO menu, integrating items
into the MENU bound menu & better contextualising it - thus freeing up
INFO for displaying.. oh you know.. INFO (!) (currently DETAILS, bound
to the U key by default, not quite intuitive IMHO). I reached a
pretty good conclusion with the watch recordings screen but other
areas will need to be tackled to make them all consistent. There's a
ticket with my name on it somewhere.. Of course moving the 'Program
details' etc menu items is a good workaround.. but still.. two menus?

I've never been one to argue that we need to make myth fully usable
with as few as six buttons, but I think we could all benefit from
having less buttons tied to core functions, and for Pete's sakes name
them more logically. Menu to bring up a menu, and Info to show
information. So if that means lesser used features need another
keypress who cares?

ONE menu button, contextual menu content. I'd be happy enough to make
some test changes & run them by people - there's bound to be a
disagreement here & there about where menu items are moved. If we
*can* reduce the number of menus by better contextualisation I think
we should.

Try to envision even wider ranging UI improvements by improving the
overall experience. Contextual menus have their downsides I'm sure,
but IMHO it'll be better than having features like press 'U' to bring
up details of something (etc).

Then of course there's the whole reason why arrow accelerators had to
go.. there's just no other way to make the UI more flexible. Even
without the horizontal menu layouts, there's the possibility that
areas could 'collapse' in future freeing up valuable screen space, and
having this daft arrow key feature could block that.

All the changes that have gone into MythUI have been the result of a
mere handful of people. If you weren't involved in the discussions &
decision making that's not the fault of people doing their level best
to improve the project.

Finally,what about this new 'wheel' thing huh? I quite like it but
some people I know aren't sure it'll catch on ;-)

Justin
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ylee at pobox

Nov 3, 2009, 5:35 PM

Post #16 of 20 (1273 views)
Permalink

Re: .22 Missing menu - Key right [In reply to]

Justin Hornsby <justin0hornsby [at] gmail> says:
> The main reason it was there in the first place was because we need
> two menus in so many places, hence two menu buttons. How many
> remotes have two menu buttons? So, you lose an 'info' button to the
> 'info menu'. Great, except now you need to find a button to map to
> U (Details) if you use that feature a lot.

Yes; I fell into this situation with 0.22 as I had long since devoted
the Info remote button to bring up the Program Details page. I am
overloading another button used to jump to the start of recordings
(and thus otherwise unused outside playback) for the INFO menu, but
. . .

> ONE menu button, contextual menu content.

I, too, would favor this approach; as things stand in 0.22, there are
two popup menus in MythVideo and Watch Recordings, and one menu
(Almost?) everywhere else.

--
Frontend/backend: P4 3.0GHz, 1.5TB software RAID 5 array
Backend: Quad-core Xeon 1.6GHz, 6.6TB sw RAID 6
Video inputs: Four high-definition over FireWire/OTA
Accessories: 47" 1080p LCD, 5.1 digital, and MX-600
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mythtv-users2 at dwilga-linux1

Nov 4, 2009, 5:18 AM

Post #17 of 20 (1211 views)
Permalink

Re: .22 Missing menu - Key right [In reply to]

Isn't there some way the theming system could be redesigned, such
that the theme itself defines whether it uses right arrow (or even
down arrow) accelerators? Seems to me, that would make everyone happy.
--
Dan Wilga "Ook."
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bert at bertenselena

Nov 4, 2009, 7:11 AM

Post #18 of 20 (1210 views)
Permalink

Re: .22 Missing menu - Key right [In reply to]

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 2:35 AM, Yeechang Lee <ylee [at] pobox> wrote:
> Justin Hornsby <justin0hornsby [at] gmail> says:
>> The main reason it was there in the first place was because we need
>> two menus in so many places, hence two menu buttons. �How many
>> remotes have two menu buttons? �So, you lose an 'info' button to the
>> 'info menu'. �Great, except now you need to find a button to map to
>> U (Details) if you use that feature a lot.
>
> Yes; I fell into this situation with 0.22 as I had long since devoted
> the Info remote button to bring up the Program Details page. I am
> overloading another button used to jump to the start of recordings
> (and thus otherwise unused outside playback) for the INFO menu, but
> . . .
>
>> ONE menu button, contextual menu content.
>
> I, too, would favor this approach; as things stand in 0.22, there are
> two popup menus in MythVideo and Watch Recordings, and one menu
> (Almost?) everywhere else.
>
Just a simple "me too". Merge info and menu in some way. I hope this
can get on the list of things to do for 0.23.

Bert
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kremels at kreme

Nov 4, 2009, 7:20 AM

Post #19 of 20 (1199 views)
Permalink

Re: .22 Missing menu - Key right [In reply to]

On 3-Nov-2009, at 17:19, Justin Hornsby wrote:

> Finally,what about this new 'wheel' thing huh? I quite like it but
> some people I know aren't sure it'll catch on ;-)

Sorry, myth doesn't support mice, wheel or not.

;P

--
It's like looking for the farmer's daughter in a haystack, and
finding the needle.

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david at istwok

Nov 4, 2009, 12:30 PM

Post #20 of 20 (1183 views)
Permalink

Re: .22 Missing menu - Key right [In reply to]

On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 04:11:43PM +0100, Bert Haverkamp wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 2:35 AM, Yeechang Lee <ylee [at] pobox> wrote:
> > Justin Hornsby <justin0hornsby [at] gmail> says:
> >> The main reason it was there in the first place was because we need
> >> two menus in so many places, hence two menu buttons. ?How many
> >> remotes have two menu buttons? ?So, you lose an 'info' button to the
> >> 'info menu'. ?Great, except now you need to find a button to map to
> >> U (Details) if you use that feature a lot.
> >
> > Yes; I fell into this situation with 0.22 as I had long since devoted
> > the Info remote button to bring up the Program Details page. I am
> > overloading another button used to jump to the start of recordings
> > (and thus otherwise unused outside playback) for the INFO menu, but
> > . . .

I have the guide button on my remote mapped to bring up Program
Details. The info button would be more logical.

> >> ONE menu button, contextual menu content.
> >
> > I, too, would favor this approach; as things stand in 0.22, there are
> > two popup menus in MythVideo and Watch Recordings, and one menu
> > (Almost?) everywhere else.
> >
> Just a simple "me too". Merge info and menu in some way. I hope this
> can get on the list of things to do for 0.23.

Here's my preferences:

SELECT brings up a context sensitive menu for the currently
highlighted item.

MENU brings up a context sensitive menu that for everything else on
the current screen. I'm not sure if it's truely necessary, but the
SELECT action menu options could also be added as a submenu here so
that everything was accessible from the MENU action.

On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 09:18:02AM -0400, Dan Wilga wrote:
> Isn't there some way the theming system could be redesigned, such
> that the theme itself defines whether it uses right arrow (or even
> down arrow) accelerators? Seems to me, that would make everyone
> happy.

That's on my todo list. FYI, that's not saying much as my todo list
has been more like a wishlist for way too long.

David
--
David Engel
david [at] istwok
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