Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Users

latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card

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sdkovacs at gmail

Oct 26, 2009, 8:39 PM

Post #1 of 25 (2498 views)
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latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card

Hi everyone,

With the soon to be released .22, I hope to move to a real video card.
Currently I'm using the TV-OUT of a PVR-350. What is the recommended
NVIDIA PCI card? Will I run into PCI bus saturation problems if I'm
running a PVR-150, PVR-350 and a video card all on the PCI bus?

Thanks is advance
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raymond at wagnerrp

Oct 26, 2009, 11:44 PM

Post #2 of 25 (2439 views)
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Re: latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card [In reply to]

On 10/26/2009 23:39, sdkovacs wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> With the soon to be released .22, I hope to move to a real video card.
> Currently I'm using the TV-OUT of a PVR-350. What is the recommended
> NVIDIA PCI card? Will I run into PCI bus saturation problems if I'm
> running a PVR-150, PVR-350 and a video card all on the PCI bus?
>
> Thanks is advance
>

If you're playing VDPAU-capable content, it's all going to be
compressed. You will only consume a couple MBps of bandwidth during
playback. If you're playing something else, it will be transferred at
full resolution and framerate (of the video). Standard definition
should be fine. 720p may cause problems. 1080i/p is right out.

If all your content is from IVTV cards, why not just get an older AGP
card and use software playback?
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mythtv at theseekerr

Oct 27, 2009, 1:31 AM

Post #3 of 25 (2440 views)
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Re: latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card [In reply to]

>
> With the soon to be released .22, I hope to move to a real video card.
>> Currently I'm using the TV-OUT of a PVR-350. What is the recommended
>> NVIDIA PCI card? Will I run into PCI bus saturation problems if I'm
>> running a PVR-150, PVR-350 and a video card all on the PCI bus?
>>
>
The answer to your question is "Nvidia Geforce GT220". But something in your
phrasing makes me unsure if it's suitable for your system:

When you say "PCI" and refer to capture cards on the same bus, it sounds a
lot like you mean PCI in the classic sense, rather than the modern PCI
Express sense.

If you're running a legacy system with PCI slots + an AGP slot for graphics
(or even no graphics slot at all), you'll be out of luck. VDPAU is only
supported on quite recent nvidia cards, which all use PCIe.

If, on the other hand, your system is relatively newish and has PCI Express
slots, the answer to your question is the new GT220.

Classic PCI ports and PCI express ports don't share the same bus, so that
won't be an issue, so long as you have PCI express slots to use. Else, the
whole point is moot, because there are no graphics cards available which are
suitable.

If you don't know whether you have PCI Express ports, as a rough guide, they
were first released in 2004 and became standard in 2005. If using an Intel
processor, you probably have PCIe if it's a Pentium-D or later (Core, Core
2, Pentium Dual Core). If it's an AMD, I can't say off the top of my head.
Consult the manufacturers website/manual.

- Chris

tortise at paradise

Oct 27, 2009, 1:40 AM

Post #4 of 25 (2439 views)
Permalink

Re: latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card [In reply to]

With the soon to be released .22, I hope to move to a real video card.
Currently I'm using the TV-OUT of a PVR-350. What is the recommended
NVIDIA PCI card? Will I run into PCI bus saturation problems if I'm
running a PVR-150, PVR-350 and a video card all on the PCI bus?

.......

If you're running a legacy system with PCI slots + an AGP slot for graphics (or even no graphics slot at all), you'll be out of
luck. VDPAU is only supported on quite recent nvidia cards, which all use PCIe.

= Not True - see http://www.sparkle.com.tw/

Classic PCI ports and PCI express ports don't share the same bus, so that won't be an issue, so long as you have PCI express slots
to use. Else, the whole point is moot, because there are no graphics cards available which are suitable.

= As above!

It depends on your current kit, its compatibility, what you want to do now and what you might also want to do in the future - in
image terms. (SD, 720p etc) Other threads already exist here on this topic.

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jyavenard at gmail

Oct 27, 2009, 1:40 AM

Post #5 of 25 (2434 views)
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Re: latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card [In reply to]

Hi

2009/10/27 Christopher Kerr <mythtv [at] theseekerr>:
> The answer to your question is "Nvidia Geforce GT220". But something in your
> phrasing makes me unsure if it's suitable for your system:

He asked for PCI ; not PCI-e

>
> When you say "PCI" and refer to capture cards on the same bus, it sounds a
> lot like you mean PCI in the classic sense, rather than the modern PCI
> Express sense.

I think he had a perfect understanding of what he asked ; a PCI card :
he wouldn't have relevant concerns otherwise with bus bandwidth

[snip]
> If you don't know whether you have PCI Express ports, as a rough guide, they
> were first released in 2004 and became standard in 2005. If using an Intel

He does ; you just answered to his simple question a complicated &
irrelevant answer :)
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william_munson at comcast

Oct 27, 2009, 3:26 AM

Post #6 of 25 (2424 views)
Permalink

Re: latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card [In reply to]

sdkovacs wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> With the soon to be released .22, I hope to move to a real video card.
> Currently I'm using the TV-OUT of a PVR-350. What is the recommended
> NVIDIA PCI card? Will I run into PCI bus saturation problems if I'm
> running a PVR-150, PVR-350 and a video card all on the PCI bus?
>

I am running a 9400GS on a PCI bus using the nVidia vdpau support in
myth and have had no problems displaying any vdpau supported video modes
however forget about playing anything that does not. Even with vdpau I
ended up removing one of my pvr250's as both running would saturate the
bus while playing back avi video. Another limitation is that you will
only be able to use the temporal 1x and bob2x filters. One frame works
too. Anything more advanced will play with pauses. Even temporal 1x
experiences jitters on fast moving scenes.

All in all, avoid the PCI bus cards unless you have no other option.
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newbury at mandamus

Oct 27, 2009, 8:28 AM

Post #7 of 25 (2411 views)
Permalink

Re: latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card [In reply to]

Christopher Kerr wrote:
> With the soon to be released .22, I hope to move to a real video
> card.
> Currently I'm using the TV-OUT of a PVR-350. What is the recommended
> NVIDIA PCI card? Will I run into PCI bus saturation problems if I'm
> running a PVR-150, PVR-350 and a video card all on the PCI bus?
>
>
> The answer to your question is "Nvidia Geforce GT220". But something in
> your phrasing makes me unsure if it's suitable for your system:
>
> When you say "PCI" and refer to capture cards on the same bus, it sounds
> a lot like you mean PCI in the classic sense, rather than the modern PCI
> Express sense.
>
> If you're running a legacy system with PCI slots + an AGP slot for
> graphics (or even no graphics slot at all), you'll be out of luck. VDPAU
> is only supported on quite recent nvidia cards, which all use PCIe.
>
> If, on the other hand, your system is relatively newish and has PCI
> Express slots, the answer to your question is the new GT220.
>
> Classic PCI ports and PCI express ports don't share the same bus, so
> that won't be an issue, so long as you have PCI express slots to use.
> Else, the whole point is moot, because there are no graphics cards
> available which are suitable.
>
> If you don't know whether you have PCI Express ports, as a rough guide,
> they were first released in 2004 and became standard in 2005. If using
> an Intel processor, you probably have PCIe if it's a Pentium-D or later
> (Core, Core 2, Pentium Dual Core). If it's an AMD, I can't say off the
> top of my head. Consult the manufacturers website/manual.
>
> - Chris

A PCIE slot is about one and half inches (40 mm ) long.

A PCI slot is about 4 inches (100 mm) long.

Geoff

--
Please let me know if anything I say offends you.
I may wish to offend you again in the future.

Tux says: "Be regular. Eat cron flakes."
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beww at beww

Oct 27, 2009, 8:34 AM

Post #8 of 25 (2410 views)
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Re: latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card [In reply to]

On Tuesday 27 October 2009 09:28:10 R. G. Newbury wrote:
> Christopher Kerr wrote:
> > With the soon to be released .22, I hope to move to a real video
> > card.
> > Currently I'm using the TV-OUT of a PVR-350. What is the
> > recommended NVIDIA PCI card? Will I run into PCI bus saturation problems
> > if I'm running a PVR-150, PVR-350 and a video card all on the PCI bus?
> >
> >
> > The answer to your question is "Nvidia Geforce GT220". But something in
> > your phrasing makes me unsure if it's suitable for your system:
> >
> > When you say "PCI" and refer to capture cards on the same bus, it sounds
> > a lot like you mean PCI in the classic sense, rather than the modern PCI
> > Express sense.
> >
> > If you're running a legacy system with PCI slots + an AGP slot for
> > graphics (or even no graphics slot at all), you'll be out of luck. VDPAU
> > is only supported on quite recent nvidia cards, which all use PCIe.
> >
> > If, on the other hand, your system is relatively newish and has PCI
> > Express slots, the answer to your question is the new GT220.
> >
> > Classic PCI ports and PCI express ports don't share the same bus, so
> > that won't be an issue, so long as you have PCI express slots to use.
> > Else, the whole point is moot, because there are no graphics cards
> > available which are suitable.
> >
> > If you don't know whether you have PCI Express ports, as a rough guide,
> > they were first released in 2004 and became standard in 2005. If using
> > an Intel processor, you probably have PCIe if it's a Pentium-D or later
> > (Core, Core 2, Pentium Dual Core). If it's an AMD, I can't say off the
> > top of my head. Consult the manufacturers website/manual.
> >
> > - Chris
>
> A PCIE slot is about one and half inches (40 mm ) long.
>
> A PCI slot is about 4 inches (100 mm) long.

Depends on what sort of PCI Express slot. An X1 is about an inch long, and an
X16 (the type used with video cards) is about the same length as a standard
PCI or AGP slot:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express

Then the is the "mini" type slot, making for a total of at least 5 different
types of the PCI Express slot.

Adding even more to the confusion, PCI-X is NOT the same as PCI Express.

Not so much a "standard" as a blueprint for total confusion.

--
Brian Wood
beww [at] beww
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newbury at mandamus

Oct 27, 2009, 8:38 AM

Post #9 of 25 (2426 views)
Permalink

Re: latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card [In reply to]

William wrote:
> sdkovacs wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> With the soon to be released .22, I hope to move to a real video card.
>> Currently I'm using the TV-OUT of a PVR-350. What is the recommended
>> NVIDIA PCI card? Will I run into PCI bus saturation problems if I'm
>> running a PVR-150, PVR-350 and a video card all on the PCI bus?
>>
>
> I am running a 9400GS on a PCI bus using the nVidia vdpau support in
> myth and have had no problems displaying any vdpau supported video modes
> however forget about playing anything that does not. Even with vdpau I
> ended up removing one of my pvr250's as both running would saturate the
> bus while playing back avi video. Another limitation is that you will
> only be able to use the temporal 1x and bob2x filters. One frame works
> too. Anything more advanced will play with pauses. Even temporal 1x
> experiences jitters on fast moving scenes.
>
> All in all, avoid the PCI bus cards unless you have no other option.

Whether you have problems seems to depend on the motherboard (and
therefore bus speed) and the graphics card's capabilities.

I have a 9300 chipset in this desktop. It plays nicely, but I have no
tuners/recorders in this box.
The mythbox at home is a 2.6GHz Intel dual core, with a 9500GT graphics
card. It will do Temporal 2X with the odd jittery section if I am
recording. It never seems to jitter or pause with Advanced2X. And that
is with a PVR500 on the same PCI bus, and network traffic from an
HDHomerun. I have recorded 5 streams at once and played back at the same
time (2 PVR in SD and 3 streans, one multirec, from the HDHR).

BUT NOTE: all of those streams are direct digital streams as the PVR
does in-hardware A->D and compression as does your 150. ISTR the PVR350
does the same. You will just stop using the 350's output and transfer
that to the nvidia card which will handle the hard work in hardware.

Presuming you have a spare slot, and the cooling needed, it should work.

Geoff

--
Please let me know if anything I say offends you.
I may wish to offend you again in the future.

Tux says: "Be regular. Eat cron flakes."
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nikos.f at gmail

Oct 27, 2009, 9:51 AM

Post #10 of 25 (2410 views)
Permalink

Re: latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card [In reply to]

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 10:39 PM, sdkovacs <sdkovacs [at] gmail> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> With the soon to be released .22, I hope to move to a real video card.
> Currently I'm using the TV-OUT of a PVR-350. What is the recommended
> NVIDIA PCI card? Will I run into PCI bus saturation problems if I'm
> running a PVR-150, PVR-350 and a video card all on the PCI bus?

I use a Sparkle 8400GS PCI card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187042 in an
Atom-based frontend. Works fine and plays back SD/HD/Blu-rays
perfectly. You are limited in deint methods in HD, but other than
that no issues. Mine is in a FE only system, so nothing competing for
PCI bandwidth.
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enigma at thedonnerparty

Oct 27, 2009, 10:29 AM

Post #11 of 25 (2398 views)
Permalink

Re: latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card [In reply to]

FWIW, my experience with a Sparkle PCI 9400GT card was less than
stellar. (see http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/397662
).

Using VDPAU worked well and looked great when it worked, but when
playing back the playback would often exit with a "display pre-empted"
error. It wasn't a huge deal on a short show because it was easy
enough to go back in and skip to where I was, but on something long
like a football game it got to be a huge pain because it can be
difficult to remember where you were and the playback was exiting 5-10
times on something that long. This was with the 180.* drivers, under
the 190.* drivers when the display preempted it totally corrupted the
display and the only way to fix the display was to reboot - restarting
X did not work. Which is a shame because this card has a ton of
overscan and the 190 driver are able to correct that. Hopefully Myth
and the drivers will get good enough for me to be able to use this
card at some point but for now I had to revert back to my pre-nvidia
configuration. I will probably try this card in a different frontend
when 0.22 is released.

I don't know why Myth had such a problem with the playback, when using
the card I never got any errors when using mplayer. It may be that
mplayer handles these errors better than myth and re-started the
stream and I just never noticed. From what I have read, the plan for
Myth is to fall back to software rendering when encountering a display
preemption rather than re-initing the display for VDPAU, for me this
won't be any better that the "An error occurred during playback"
screen since the card is PCI and chokes on software rendering. Some
people may have had success using PCI cards with VDPAU but I'm not one
of them.
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spikeygg at gmail

Oct 28, 2009, 5:48 AM

Post #12 of 25 (2365 views)
Permalink

Re: latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card [In reply to]

I tried an 8400GS to begin with after hearing all the whoop-de-doo on
VDPAU. I realized right away that it was not what I expected so I returned
it and purchased a 9500GT (this
one<http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814139046>)
and
I've been using it since June. My experiences have been very positive with
this card and VDPAU. Currently when displaying any high def. content, my
CPU idles (unless I have a commercial detection job running in the
background).

There is no studder watching these videos, provided you don't turn on
closed captions. We usually watch programs with CC turned on so the WAF
dropped a little after the upgrade but it really only makes one or two shows
unwatchable with CCs on (not sure why this is... difference in
transimission?). It has been mentioned (on the mailing list) that this is a
currently a mythtv-screen-drawing-code limitation and that at some point it
will work smoothly.

-Greg

jstembridge at gmail

Oct 28, 2009, 7:35 AM

Post #13 of 25 (2369 views)
Permalink

Re: latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card [In reply to]

2009/10/28 Greg Grotsky <spikeygg [at] gmail>:
> � I tried an 8400GS to begin with after hearing all the whoop-de-doo on
> VDPAU.� I realized right away that it was not what I expected so I returned
> it and purchased a 9500GT (this one)�and I've been using it since June.

What problems did you have with the 8400GS? As far as I can tell it
should be better than the 9500GT for VDPAU.
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raymond at wagnerrp

Oct 28, 2009, 9:44 AM

Post #14 of 25 (2361 views)
Permalink

Re: latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card [In reply to]

On 10/28/2009 10:35, James Stembridge wrote:
> 2009/10/28 Greg Grotsky<spikeygg [at] gmail>:
>
>> I tried an 8400GS to begin with after hearing all the whoop-de-doo on
>> VDPAU. I realized right away that it was not what I expected so I returned
>> it and purchased a 9500GT (this one) and I've been using it since June.
>>
> What problems did you have with the 8400GS? As far as I can tell it
> should be better than the 9500GT for VDPAU.
>

That used to be the case, when only the late rev 8400GS was capable of
VC-1 decoding. Now the bitstream decoding that was lacking in the other
cards is performed inside the driver, and it doesn't matter.

As to other problems, the 8400GS is a bit underpowered to manage high
resolution complex deinterlacers. Consult the multitude of mailing list
threads, and wiki entries for more information on that.
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spikeygg at gmail

Oct 29, 2009, 8:11 PM

Post #15 of 25 (2312 views)
Permalink

Re: latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card [In reply to]

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Raymond Wagner <raymond [at] wagnerrp>wrote:

> On 10/28/2009 10:35, James Stembridge wrote:
>
>> 2009/10/28 Greg Grotsky<spikeygg [at] gmail>:
>>
>>
>>> I tried an 8400GS to begin with after hearing all the whoop-de-doo on
>>> VDPAU. I realized right away that it was not what I expected so I
>>> returned
>>> it and purchased a 9500GT (this one) and I've been using it since June.
>>>
>>>
>> What problems did you have with the 8400GS? As far as I can tell it
>> should be better than the 9500GT for VDPAU.
>>
>>
>
> That used to be the case, when only the late rev 8400GS was capable of VC-1
> decoding. Now the bitstream decoding that was lacking in the other cards is
> performed inside the driver, and it doesn't matter.
>
> As to other problems, the 8400GS is a bit underpowered to manage high
> resolution complex deinterlacers. Consult the multitude of mailing list
> threads, and wiki entries for more information on that.
>
>
>

Raymond nailed it. I really wanted to use advanced deint, the 8400GS didn't
have enough... hutzpa. The 9500GT does 2x, no problem.

I thought it would be better to have a passive heatsink than to have the
power, I was wrong. In fact, it was a forced upgrade because my old passive
heatsink nvidia card gave up the ghost when the caps above the hot chip
busted open (1.5 years old).

-Greg

charriglists at bellsouth

Oct 30, 2009, 7:34 AM

Post #16 of 25 (2299 views)
Permalink

Re: latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card [In reply to]

Greg Grotsky wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Raymond Wagner <raymond [at] wagnerrp
> <mailto:raymond [at] wagnerrp>> wrote:
>
> On 10/28/2009 10:35, James Stembridge wrote:
>
> 2009/10/28 Greg Grotsky<spikeygg [at] gmail
> <mailto:spikeygg [at] gmail>>:
>
>
> I tried an 8400GS to begin with after hearing all the
> whoop-de-doo on
> VDPAU. I realized right away that it was not what I
> expected so I returned
> it and purchased a 9500GT (this one) and I've been using it
> since June.
>
>
> What problems did you have with the 8400GS? As far as I can tell it
> should be better than the 9500GT for VDPAU.
>
>
>
> That used to be the case, when only the late rev 8400GS was capable
> of VC-1 decoding. Now the bitstream decoding that was lacking in
> the other cards is performed inside the driver, and it doesn't matter.
>
> As to other problems, the 8400GS is a bit underpowered to manage
> high resolution complex deinterlacers. Consult the multitude of
> mailing list threads, and wiki entries for more information on that.
>
>
>
>
> Raymond nailed it. I really wanted to use advanced deint, the 8400GS
> didn't have enough... hutzpa. The 9500GT does 2x, no problem.
>
> I thought it would be better to have a passive heatsink than to have
> the power, I was wrong. In fact, it was a forced upgrade because my old
> passive heatsink nvidia card gave up the ghost when the caps above the
> hot chip busted open (1.5 years old).
>
> -Greg
>

You can get a 9500GT without a fan. The one I have has a huge heatsink
and keeps pretty cool. There is a 512 and 1GB version.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187035
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187034

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f-myth-users at media

Oct 31, 2009, 1:36 AM

Post #17 of 25 (2262 views)
Permalink

latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card [In reply to]

> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:34:30 -0400
> From: Calvin Harrigan <charriglists [at] bellsouth>

> You can get a 9500GT without a fan. The one I have has a huge heatsink
> and keeps pretty cool. There is a 512 and 1GB version.

> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187035
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187034

These cards claim to have a PCI Express 2.0 x16 interface; an MSI
K9N2G Neo motherboard I'm considering auditioning one in only has
the 1.0 interface (half the speed). None of the Newegg reviews
talk about this; does anyone have any idea whether the speed cut
will matter?

(My use case is [right now] to take SD recordings from PVR-250 inputs,
transcode to H.264 [entirely to save 2-3x of the storage], and then
play back onto an -interlaced- NTSC Sony CRT via the S-Video output;
I've been left somewhat confused about whether an interlaced source to
an interlaced CRT nonetheless needs a deinterlacer if I've transcoded
through H.264. If it does, I'd want to use the best deinterlacer I
can. I'd be willing to consider a different nVidia card (one that can
only hack the best deinterlacers at SD resolutions) for now if that
makes more sense, since it will be quite a while [if ever] before I
ever have either HD sources or HD outputs [.well, I guess a computer
screen might count as the latter]. My highest priorities are quality
of output to an interlaced CRT, so I can't cope with VGA or HDMI,
don't want any motion artifacts, etc.)

Any suggestions? Thanks!

P.S. I note from the reviews that the 512meg card used to have a
really studly heatsink, different from the 1G card (also somewhat
studly), but apparently both cards now share a wimpier heatsink.
May or may not be a problem. Newegg also seems to be carrying
both memory sizes for the same price right now, so if this card
makes sense at all, I may go for the 1G for futureproofing.
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raymond at wagnerrp

Oct 31, 2009, 10:44 AM

Post #18 of 25 (2248 views)
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Re: latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card [In reply to]

On 10/31/2009 04:36, f-myth-users [at] media wrote:
> > Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:34:30 -0400
> > From: Calvin Harrigan<charriglists [at] bellsouth>
>
> > You can get a 9500GT without a fan. The one I have has a huge heatsink
> > and keeps pretty cool. There is a 512 and 1GB version.
>
> > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187035
> > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187034
>
> These cards claim to have a PCI Express 2.0 x16 interface; an MSI
> K9N2G Neo motherboard I'm considering auditioning one in only has
> the 1.0 interface (half the speed). None of the Newegg reviews
> talk about this; does anyone have any idea whether the speed cut
> will matter?
>

Think about what you'll be sending across the bus. You're talking
compressed video at 5-30mbps that you already pulled from a much slower
PCI or PCIe x1 card. Even if you're not using VDPAU, the most data
you're going to be sending across is 1080p60 at 3Gbps. Even the 4GBps
of PCIe 1.0 is far beyond any usage you might see.

There have been concerns about compatibility between 1.0 and 2.0 parts,
but I've not heard of any examples of such problems.
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charriglists at bellsouth

Oct 31, 2009, 12:20 PM

Post #19 of 25 (2256 views)
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Re: latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card [In reply to]

Raymond Wagner wrote:
> On 10/31/2009 04:36, f-myth-users [at] media wrote:
>> > Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:34:30 -0400
>> > From: Calvin Harrigan<charriglists [at] bellsouth>
>>
>> > You can get a 9500GT without a fan. The one I have has a
>> huge heatsink
>> > and keeps pretty cool. There is a 512 and 1GB version.
>>
>> > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187035
>> > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187034
>>
>> These cards claim to have a PCI Express 2.0 x16 interface; an MSI
>> K9N2G Neo motherboard I'm considering auditioning one in only has
>> the 1.0 interface (half the speed). None of the Newegg reviews
>> talk about this; does anyone have any idea whether the speed cut
>> will matter?
>>
>
> Think about what you'll be sending across the bus. You're talking
> compressed video at 5-30mbps that you already pulled from a much
> slower PCI or PCIe x1 card. Even if you're not using VDPAU, the most
> data you're going to be sending across is 1080p60 at 3Gbps. Even the
> 4GBps of PCIe 1.0 is far beyond any usage you might see.
>
> There have been concerns about compatibility between 1.0 and 2.0
> parts, but I've not heard of any examples of such problems.
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>

I have a M2NPV-VM which has a PCIe 1.0 x16 slot, not to mention a quite
a bit older. The card worked fine for me, but that doesn't mean it will
for you. The spec'd speed cut doesn't matter, I get better results from
the 9500 than with the integerated 6150 even without using VDPAU.
Integrated gpu shares ram, so that didn't help at all.

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mythtv at bektchiev

Oct 31, 2009, 1:06 PM

Post #20 of 25 (2230 views)
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Re: latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card [In reply to]

On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 1:36 AM, <f-myth-users [at] media> wrote:
>
> � �> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:34:30 -0400
> � �> From: Calvin Harrigan <charriglists [at] bellsouth>
>
> � �> You can get a 9500GT without a fan. �The one I have has a huge heatsink
> � �> and keeps pretty cool. There is a 512 and 1GB version.
>
> � �> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187035
> � �> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187034

> P.S. �I note from the reviews that the 512meg card used to have a
>
> really studly heatsink, different from the 1G card (also somewhat
> studly), but apparently both cards now share a wimpier heatsink.
> May or may not be a problem. �Newegg also seems to be carrying
> both memory sizes for the same price right now, so if this card
> makes sense at all, I may go for the 1G for futureproofing.
>
I have the 1GB card with the smaller heatsink and it does run warm but
nothing really bad. After hours of playing 1080i with the Advanced x2
deinterlacer the top temperature I've seen is 71 degrees C and the
chip I believe is rated to be OK up to at least 90 so there is quite a
lot of room. And it idles at 52-53C.
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nick.rout at gmail

Oct 31, 2009, 4:20 PM

Post #21 of 25 (2225 views)
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Re: latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card [In reply to]

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 6:44 AM, Raymond Wagner <raymond [at] wagnerrp> wrote:
>
> There have been concerns about compatibility between 1.0 and 2.0 parts, but
> I've not heard of any examples of such problems.

I have, at least on my reading on this thread:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/404846
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jyavenard at gmail

Nov 1, 2009, 12:12 AM

Post #22 of 25 (2191 views)
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Re: latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card [In reply to]

2009/11/1 Deyan <mythtv [at] bektchiev>:

> I have the 1GB card with the smaller heatsink and it does run warm but
> nothing really bad. After hours of playing 1080i with the Advanced x2
> deinterlacer the top temperature I've seen is 71 degrees C and the
> chip I believe is rated to be OK up to at least 90 so there is quite a
> lot of room. And it idles at 52-53C.

most nvidia chips are rated for 110 degres and above..

Default speed throttle with my 9400GT with nvidia-settings is set to
occur at 120 degres
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f-myth-users at media

Nov 1, 2009, 12:55 AM

Post #23 of 25 (2191 views)
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latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card [In reply to]

> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 13:44:52 -0400
> From: Raymond Wagner <raymond [at] wagnerrp>

> On 10/31/2009 04:36, f-myth-users [at] media wrote:
> > > Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:34:30 -0400
> > > From: Calvin Harrigan<charriglists [at] bellsouth>
> >
> > > You can get a 9500GT without a fan. The one I have has a huge heatsink
> > > and keeps pretty cool. There is a 512 and 1GB version.
> >
> > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187035
> > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187034
> >
> > These cards claim to have a PCI Express 2.0 x16 interface; an MSI
> > K9N2G Neo motherboard I'm considering auditioning one in only has
> > the 1.0 interface (half the speed). None of the Newegg reviews
> > talk about this; does anyone have any idea whether the speed cut
> > will matter?

> Think about what you'll be sending across the bus. You're talking
> compressed video at 5-30mbps that you already pulled from a much slower
> PCI or PCIe x1 card. Even if you're not using VDPAU, the most data
> you're going to be sending across is 1080p60 at 3Gbps. Even the 4GBps
> of PCIe 1.0 is far beyond any usage you might see.

> There have been concerns about compatibility between 1.0 and 2.0 parts,
> but I've not heard of any examples of such problems.

It's actually compatibility I was talking about (unclearly, alas)
above; I was thinking of a thread that I couldn't quite remember
enough to find but Nick Rout did (thanks!), namely this one:
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/404846

So should I try it? I dunno... [.Crap---and while I was trying to
decide, the 1GB card has apparently gone back up by $10 and is no
longer the price of the 512MB. But do I need more than 512MB? For
SD, presumably not; for HD, I can't remember whether 256 or 512 was the
magic number, especially since things have been changnig a bit and
there's the recent work on automatically allocating more resources
to difficult streams...]

Assuming that I -need- a deinterlacer for SD-interlaced capture ->
H.264 -> SD CRT TV. I'm still not sure about that step.
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brad+myth at templetons

Nov 4, 2009, 12:56 AM

Post #24 of 25 (2044 views)
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Re: latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card [In reply to]

I recently put in a 8400gs pci card. While the part number says it is a G84, vdpau
test declares it to be a G98, even though my research did not show any G98 8400gs
PCI cards on the market.

Here's what I observed, with both the 185 and 190 nvidia drivers, and ubuntu karmic.

a) It does indeed offset all the CPU as everybody says, which is good. The older
machine was able to handle it, but barely and was getting warm sometimes.

b) As also reported, there is stuttering when the OSD appears, and especially when
it fades. It still stutters if you turn off fading, though of course not as much.
The suttering appears regardless of the deinterlacer, in fact it appears on 720p
content and on 480i content for which there is tons of deinterlacing power.

c) In spite of reports that the 8400gs should do temporal 2x on 1080i no problem
I notice some stuttering. And the OSD stuttering is bad enough to be unwatchable.
So I am using bob 2x for now on 1080i, and advanced 2x on SD. Frankly, the new
deinterlacers are not noticeably sharper than the software ones so I am not too
worried about this for now, but still debating getting a 9400 or 9500 which are
the only other units you can get in PCI.

d) I know the OSD stuttering is being worked on, but I do a lot of arrow key
manipulation, so at this point I would prefer to turn off OSD when I do the 30
second skip or 8 second backwards. I would love an option to turn it off except
if I hit i, or to toggle whether it happens or not, at least until OSD under
vdpau is recoded as I know is planned. Is there a way to do this?

e) The vdpau decoders are more sensative to damage in the video stream due to
firewire errors or OTA noise. Quite a bit more in some cases -- I am not sure
what fix there is for this except to push nvidia to improve the drivers.

f) If you use vdpau with mplayer, you need to set the codec manually which is a bit
annoying.

g) A PCI card is so low in bandwidth that you can't do mplayer without vdpau any
more, while AGP 8x could do it fine, you had better be committed to vdpau if you
put in a PCI card.

Note the very slow get and put bits (due to pci bus I presume) but good decoding
rates. The number for temporal 2x (66 fields/s) says it should work but it is on
the edge so it may be worth doing another card.

Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
28:08 NVIDIA(0): NVIDIA GPU GeForce 8400 GS (G98) at PCI:3:0:0 (GPU-0)

VDPAU API version : 0
VDPAU implementation : NVIDIA VDPAU Driver Shared Library 190.42 Tue Oct 20 20:55:52 PDT 2009

SURFACE GET BITS: 100.952 M/s
SURFACE PUT BITS: 57.9439 M/s

MPEG DECODING (1920x1080): 74 frames/s
MPEG DECODING (1280x720): 166 frames/s
H264 DECODING (1920x1080): 60 frames/s
H264 DECODING (1280x720): 108 frames/s
VC1 DECODING (1440x1080): 75 frames/s

MIXER WEAVE (1920x1080): 201 frames/s
MIXER BOB (1920x1080): 313 fields/s
MIXER TEMPORAL (1920x1080): 66 fields/s
MIXER TEMPORAL + SKIP_CHROMA (1920x1080): 90 fields/s
MIXER TEMPORAL_SPATIAL (1920x1080): 24 fields/s
MIXER TEMPORAL_SPATIAL + SKIP_CHROMA (1920x1080): 26 fields/s

MIXER TEMPORAL_SPATIAL (720x576 video to 1920x1080 display): 95 fields/s

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ylee at pobox

Nov 4, 2009, 9:35 AM

Post #25 of 25 (2005 views)
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Re: latest recommendation for VDPAU PCI card [In reply to]

Brad Templeton <brad+myth [at] templetons> says:
> f) If you use vdpau with mplayer, you need to set the codec manually
> which is a bit annoying.

Put the following into /etc/mplayer/mplayer.conf:

vc=ffmpeg12vdpau,ffvc1vdpau,ffh264vdpau,ffwmv3vdpau,

The comma at the end tells mplayer to fall back to its default codecs
if none applies.

--
Yeechang Lee <ylee [at] pobox> | San Francisco CA US
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