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dennis.cartier at gmail

Sep 6, 2009, 6:14 PM

Post #1 of 18 (1653 views)
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OT: Addressable Antenna Switch

I thought I had seen mention of a person on this list who had built a
antenna switch that could be used to connect a tuner to 1 of multiple
antennas?

I recently added a second antenna and now have 1 HDHR connected to an
antenna pointed at Buffalo and a second HDHR connected to an antenna for
Toronto stations. After going through the steps of creating a second channel
lineup and eliminating the stations that are only available from 1 of the 2
HDHR's I thought, there has to be a better way. If I could have Myth run a
script before using a particular tuner of a HDHR the tuner could be switched
to the antenna needed for that station.

I am thinking a 2 input, 4 output should device should fit the bill. So
anyone know who this user was that had done something similar?

Dennis


knightr at istop

Sep 6, 2009, 6:39 PM

Post #2 of 18 (1599 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Addressable Antenna Switch [In reply to]

Hi!

Dennis Cartier wrote:
> I thought I had seen mention of a person on this list who had built a
> antenna switch that could be used to connect a tuner to 1 of multiple
> antennas?

I know I asked a similar question back in January 2008...

> I am thinking a 2 input, 4 output should device should fit the bill. So
> anyone know who this user was that had done something similar?
>
> Dennis

What I had found back then was this:

http://antennasdirect.com/rotators.html

which could be controller by IR but this was only 2 inputs and 1 output...

Unfortunately my antenna is quite damaged and I haven't found somebody to replace it
yet so I have not looked into this further...

Good luck!

Nick
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drew.einhorn at gmail

Sep 6, 2009, 8:15 PM

Post #3 of 18 (1609 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Addressable Antenna Switch [In reply to]

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 7:39 PM, Nicolas Riendeau<knightr [at] istop> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Dennis Cartier wrote:
>>
>> I thought I had seen mention of a person on this list who had built a
>> antenna switch that could be used to connect a tuner to 1 of multiple
>> antennas?
>
> I know I asked a similar question back in January 2008...
>
>  > I am thinking a 2 input, 4 output should device should fit the bill. So
>>
>> anyone know who this user was that had done something similar?
>>
>> Dennis
>
> What I had found back then was this:
>
> http://antennasdirect.com/rotators.html
>
> which could be controller by IR but this was only 2 inputs and 1 output...
>
> Unfortunately my antenna is quite damaged and I haven't found somebody to
> replace it yet so I have not looked into this further...
>

Hmm, I wonder if the diseq switches that are typically used to select which
LNB signal is fed from the satellite dish to the satellite receiver
could be adapted
for this purpose.

--
Drew Einhorn
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dennis.cartier at gmail

Sep 7, 2009, 8:28 AM

Post #4 of 18 (1572 views)
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Re: OT: Addressable Antenna Switch [In reply to]

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 11:15 PM, drew einhorn <drew.einhorn [at] gmail>wrote:

> Hmm, I wonder if the diseq switches that are typically used to select which
> LNB signal is fed from the satellite dish to the satellite receiver
> could be adapted
> for this purpose.
>

I had thought of this. I even have some switches laying around from days
past. I am a bit worried that I would not be able to safely inject the
supply voltage and not to mention the DiSEqC control signals onto the coax
and have it not interfere ... fry or otherwise hamper the ATSC
signal/tuners/etc. I am fairly analog challenged.

Going back over the plan, I realized that the HDHR interface in Myth does
not have the ability to run a script on channel change. Doh! Then it hit me,
I had a similar problem while trying to orient the second antenna this
weekend. Rather than climbing up and down the tower to check the signal
output from the HDHR after every adjustment, I created a script that mailed
the output to my Blackberry every 30 seconds. That way I could stay on the
tower and get instant feedback. Well almost instant. I could use a similar
method of having a script watching the status output of the HDHR devices and
then switch the required antenna in depending on the channel it was tuned
to.

The next hurdle is how to communicate to the location where the HDHR devices
are located. I have them installed in a workshop at the base of the tower
and I would like the signals to use the existing ethernet network to control
the switching. Hmm,I would rather not require a PC for this function so ....
I need a print server. I know what you are thinking, a print server??? For
what? Simple, to be the network interface for the antenna switch. An older
style parallel print server should be perfect to interface a micro
controller to. Sending the the commands will be as easy as echoing to lpr.
You may even be able to do it without the micro controller just by creating
a simple latch from discrete components but why pass up the opportunity to
do something neat with a MCU.

All that is left to work out is how to actually switch the signal. I was
thinking perhaps a lobotomized DiSEqC switch might work, but I had better
consult the OTA DigitalHome forums where the real antenna geeks hang out.
They will know how to accomplish this.

Dennis


bhaskins at chartermi

Sep 7, 2009, 8:49 AM

Post #5 of 18 (1571 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Addressable Antenna Switch [In reply to]

---- Dennis Cartier <dennis.cartier [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 11:15 PM, drew einhorn <drew.einhorn [at] gmail>wrote:
>
> > Hmm, I wonder if the diseq switches that are typically used to select which
> > LNB signal is fed from the satellite dish to the satellite receiver
> > could be adapted
> > for this purpose.
> >
>
> I had thought of this. I even have some switches laying around from days
> past. I am a bit worried that I would not be able to safely inject the
> supply voltage and not to mention the DiSEqC control signals onto the coax
> and have it not interfere ... fry or otherwise hamper the ATSC
> signal/tuners/etc. I am fairly analog challenged.
>
> Going back over the plan, I realized that the HDHR interface in Myth does
> not have the ability to run a script on channel change. Doh! Then it hit me,
> I had a similar problem while trying to orient the second antenna this
> weekend. Rather than climbing up and down the tower to check the signal
> output from the HDHR after every adjustment, I created a script that mailed
> the output to my Blackberry every 30 seconds. That way I could stay on the
> tower and get instant feedback. Well almost instant. I could use a similar
> method of having a script watching the status output of the HDHR devices and
> then switch the required antenna in depending on the channel it was tuned
> to.
>
> The next hurdle is how to communicate to the location where the HDHR devices
> are located. I have them installed in a workshop at the base of the tower
> and I would like the signals to use the existing ethernet network to control
> the switching. Hmm,I would rather not require a PC for this function so ....
> I need a print server. I know what you are thinking, a print server??? For
> what? Simple, to be the network interface for the antenna switch. An older
> style parallel print server should be perfect to interface a micro
> controller to. Sending the the commands will be as easy as echoing to lpr.
> You may even be able to do it without the micro controller just by creating
> a simple latch from discrete components but why pass up the opportunity to
> do something neat with a MCU.
>
> All that is left to work out is how to actually switch the signal. I was
> thinking perhaps a lobotomized DiSEqC switch might work, but I had better
> consult the OTA DigitalHome forums where the real antenna geeks hang out.
> They will know how to accomplish this.
>
> Dennis
All of the old VCRs had a antenna switch to enable a pass-through when the
unit was turned off and of course these things are being junked by the ton now.
Maybe someone on the list could identify this switch and it coud be used for this.
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beww at beww

Sep 7, 2009, 9:09 AM

Post #6 of 18 (1585 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Addressable Antenna Switch [In reply to]

On Monday 07 September 2009 09:49:53 bhaskins [at] chartermi wrote:

> All of the old VCRs had a antenna switch to enable a pass-through when the
> unit was turned off and of course these things are being junked by the ton
> now. Maybe someone on the list could identify this switch and it coud be
> used for this.

Good thought, but most of those switches were of horrible quality, the signal
was severely degraded in bypass mode. Even if you could easily get such a
switch, I wouldn't want to use it.

The degradation usually varied a lot from channel to channel, indicating a
severe mis-match causing standing waves and non-flat operation.

--
Brian Wood
beww [at] beww
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dennis.cartier at gmail

Sep 7, 2009, 1:16 PM

Post #7 of 18 (1571 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Addressable Antenna Switch [In reply to]

For anyone interested in this sort of thing, I located (with a bit of help)
the original post I remembered seeing. It is at
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=106210

The OP did end up using a DiSEqC sans the brains.I plan to proceed in a
similar fashion.

Dennis


richardwoelk at yahoo

Sep 7, 2009, 2:16 PM

Post #8 of 18 (1562 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Addressable Antenna Switch [In reply to]

bhaskins [at] chartermi wrote:
> ---- Dennis Cartier <dennis.cartier [at] gmail> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 11:15 PM, drew einhorn <drew.einhorn [at] gmail>wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hmm, I wonder if the diseq switches that are typically used to select which
>>> LNB signal is fed from the satellite dish to the satellite receiver
>>> could be adapted
>>> for this purpose.
>>>
>>>
>> I had thought of this. I even have some switches laying around from days
>> past. I am a bit worried that I would not be able to safely inject the
>> supply voltage and not to mention the DiSEqC control signals onto the coax
>> and have it not interfere ... fry or otherwise hamper the ATSC
>> signal/tuners/etc. I am fairly analog challenged.
>>
>> Going back over the plan, I realized that the HDHR interface in Myth does
>> not have the ability to run a script on channel change. Doh! Then it hit me,
>> I had a similar problem while trying to orient the second antenna this
>> weekend. Rather than climbing up and down the tower to check the signal
>> output from the HDHR after every adjustment, I created a script that mailed
>> the output to my Blackberry every 30 seconds. That way I could stay on the
>> tower and get instant feedback. Well almost instant. I could use a similar
>> method of having a script watching the status output of the HDHR devices and
>> then switch the required antenna in depending on the channel it was tuned
>> to.
>>
>> The next hurdle is how to communicate to the location where the HDHR devices
>> are located. I have them installed in a workshop at the base of the tower
>> and I would like the signals to use the existing ethernet network to control
>> the switching. Hmm,I would rather not require a PC for this function so ....
>> I need a print server. I know what you are thinking, a print server??? For
>> what? Simple, to be the network interface for the antenna switch. An older
>> style parallel print server should be perfect to interface a micro
>> controller to. Sending the the commands will be as easy as echoing to lpr.
>> You may even be able to do it without the micro controller just by creating
>> a simple latch from discrete components but why pass up the opportunity to
>> do something neat with a MCU.
>>
>> All that is left to work out is how to actually switch the signal. I was
>> thinking perhaps a lobotomized DiSEqC switch might work, but I had better
>> consult the OTA DigitalHome forums where the real antenna geeks hang out.
>> They will know how to accomplish this.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
> All of the old VCRs had a antenna switch to enable a pass-through when the
> unit was turned off and of course these things are being junked by the ton now.
> Maybe someone on the list could identify this switch and it coud be used for this.
I work with RF in two-way radios. Often, the older radios had a relay to
switch the transmitter or receiver to the antenna.
A simple single-pole-double-throw relay will work, tie all the grounds
together and hook the centers to the relay.
You can then control this with an output of the parallel port.
you'll want to make sure the project box is metal, and keep the stripped
coax as short as possible.

Another way to connect two antennas, is if their freuqency is far enough
apart (3 channels, I assume) is to use a splitter backwards as a mixer.
My Dad has this on his analog OTA, with channel 5 and 12, and it works
fine. (We're in Canada, we haven't switched tot digital yet)

- Richard


bhaskins at chartermi

Sep 7, 2009, 2:22 PM

Post #9 of 18 (1557 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Addressable Antenna Switch [In reply to]

---- Dennis Cartier <dennis.cartier [at] gmail> wrote:
> For anyone interested in this sort of thing, I located (with a bit of help)
> the original post I remembered seeing. It is at
> http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=106210
>
> The OP did end up using a DiSEqC sans the brains.I plan to proceed in a
> similar fashion.
>
> Dennis
Are these still available?
If so, where?
Thanks


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drew.einhorn at gmail

Sep 7, 2009, 3:07 PM

Post #10 of 18 (1552 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Addressable Antenna Switch [In reply to]

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 3:22 PM, <bhaskins [at] chartermi> wrote:
>
> ---- Dennis Cartier <dennis.cartier [at] gmail> wrote:
>> For anyone interested in this sort of thing, I located (with a bit of help)
>> the original post I remembered seeing. It is at
>> http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=106210
>>
>> The OP did end up using a DiSEqC sans the brains.I plan to proceed in a
>> similar fashion.
>>
>> Dennis
> Are these still available?
> If so, where?

Not sure if the exact model the OP used is still around,
but there's lots of similar stuff, need the "c" in diseqc,
don't find much without it.

http://www.google.com/products?q=diseqc&scoring=p
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A1234&_nkw=diseqc&_trksid=p4999.c0.m14&_sop=15&_sc=1

It's all based on open standards, lots of links from here.

http://www.tech-faq.com/diseqc.shtml

If you do build a microcontroller that will run an antenna selector
based on cheap diseqc switches I'll bet you'd have a bunch of folks
from around here who would want to buy one.

Might want to have an optional preamp up near the antenna.

I'm just guessing the standards may allow power and control signals to
be passed thru the diseqc switch, no we would have to pass power and
control through the preamp to the switch.

Bet the ham radio lists would be a good place to ask this question.

--
Drew Einhorn
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beww at beww

Sep 7, 2009, 3:09 PM

Post #11 of 18 (1568 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Addressable Antenna Switch [In reply to]

On Monday 07 September 2009 15:16:12 Richard Woelk wrote:

>
> I work with RF in two-way radios. Often, the older radios had a relay to
> switch the transmitter or receiver to the antenna.
> A simple single-pole-double-throw relay will work, tie all the grounds
> together and hook the centers to the relay.
> You can then control this with an output of the parallel port.
> you'll want to make sure the project box is metal, and keep the stripped
> coax as short as possible.

Works as long as the wires are VERY short, somewhat dependant on the operating
frequency though. Radios usually operate on a single frequency or a small
range of frequencies, so keeping things flat over a wide range is not as
important as it is with TV antennas, especially UHF or VHF/UHF combos.

Dow-Key makes coaxial relays that maintain shielding and the correct impedance

http://www.dowkey.com/product_search.php?pf=1#

--
Brian Wood
beww [at] beww
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beww at beww

Sep 7, 2009, 3:10 PM

Post #12 of 18 (1551 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Addressable Antenna Switch [In reply to]

On Monday 07 September 2009 16:07:46 drew einhorn wrote:

>
> Bet the ham radio lists would be a good place to ask this question.

Probably true.

--
Brian Wood - Wa7UBW
beww [at] beww
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beww at beww

Sep 7, 2009, 3:12 PM

Post #13 of 18 (1564 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Addressable Antenna Switch [In reply to]

On Monday 07 September 2009 16:09:21 Brian Wood wrote:

> Dow-Key makes coaxial relays that maintain shielding and the correct
> impedance
>
> http://www.dowkey.com/product_search.php?pf=1#

p.s. Dow-Key might not want to sell you one piece, you could probably buy them
from Newark Electronics, MCM, Digi-Key or the like.

--
Brian Wood
beww [at] beww
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beww at beww

Sep 7, 2009, 3:15 PM

Post #14 of 18 (1558 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Addressable Antenna Switch [In reply to]

On Monday 07 September 2009 16:10:56 Brian Wood wrote:
> On Monday 07 September 2009 16:07:46 drew einhorn wrote:
> > Bet the ham radio lists would be a good place to ask this question.
>
> Probably true.

If you ask on an Amateur Radio list you might say you want a "T/R Switch",
used to switch an antenna between transmitter and receiver. But "Co-ax relay"
would probably be understood.

There are solid-state devices in addition to mechanical relays, more expensive
of course.

--
Brian Wood
beww [at] beww
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gull at gull

Sep 7, 2009, 3:57 PM

Post #15 of 18 (1561 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Addressable Antenna Switch [In reply to]

Dennis Cartier wrote:
> I had thought of this. I even have some switches laying around from days
> past. I am a bit worried that I would not be able to safely inject the
> supply voltage and not to mention the DiSEqC control signals onto the
> coax and have it not interfere ... fry or otherwise hamper the ATSC
> signal/tuners/etc. I am fairly analog challenged.

Put a DC block before the tuners and you should be OK. You can get them
at most places that sell antenna pre-amps.

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beww at beww

Sep 7, 2009, 4:00 PM

Post #16 of 18 (1553 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Addressable Antenna Switch [In reply to]

On Monday 07 September 2009 16:57:05 David Brodbeck wrote:
> Dennis Cartier wrote:
> > I had thought of this. I even have some switches laying around from days
> > past. I am a bit worried that I would not be able to safely inject the
> > supply voltage and not to mention the DiSEqC control signals onto the
> > coax and have it not interfere ... fry or otherwise hamper the ATSC
> > signal/tuners/etc. I am fairly analog challenged.
>
> Put a DC block before the tuners and you should be OK. You can get them
> at most places that sell antenna pre-amps.

Or use a power inserter that pushes power in only one direction. Some actually
have switches or fuses to let you select what direction(s) gets power.

Basically it's a DC block built into the inserter.

--
Brian Wood
beww [at] beww
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drew.einhorn at gmail

Sep 7, 2009, 5:01 PM

Post #17 of 18 (1550 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Addressable Antenna Switch [In reply to]

Googling:

diseqc generator

Returns a bunch of interesting devices.

--
Drew Einhorn
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drew.einhorn at gmail

Sep 8, 2009, 10:06 PM

Post #18 of 18 (1492 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Addressable Antenna Switch [In reply to]

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 6:01 PM, drew einhorn<drew.einhorn [at] gmail> wrote:
> Googling:
>
>    diseqc generator
>
> Returns a bunch of interesting devices.
>
> --
> Drew Einhorn
>

It looks to me like you can take one of these.

http://www.dipolnet.com/diseqc_1_0_generator_viper_s_115_R85254.htm

and control a 1x4 diseqc switch to select among 4 antennas,

Don't know if they make 1x8 diseqc switches, but if they do I bet you
can use it among 8 antennas.

The thing that puzzles me is the lack of a power input.

I bet there's a power injector to the left of the diseqc generator.

And I'll bet there are preamp modules you can have put between the
generator and the diseqc switch, maybe even with gain adjustable with
a fancier diseqc generator.

Or am I just dreaming this stuff up?

--
Drew Einhorn
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