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Live TV channel lock issue

 

 

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philledwards at gmail

Jul 4, 2009, 7:39 AM

Post #1 of 18 (3037 views)
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Live TV channel lock issue

When I'm watching Live TV many (not all) of my Australian DVB-T
channels fail to get a channel lock.("You should have gotten a channel
lock by now"). The odd thing is that the channels play fine if I watch
them in xine and they also seem to record fine (based on a test I just
did). Any idea why I might be getting this problem in Live TV?

Regards,
Phill
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peloy at chapus

Jul 4, 2009, 8:25 AM

Post #2 of 18 (2953 views)
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Re: Live TV channel lock issue [In reply to]

Hi Phill,

On Sun, Jul 05, 2009 at 12:39:47AM +1000, Phill Edwards wrote:

> When I'm watching Live TV many (not all) of my Australian DVB-T
> channels fail to get a channel lock.("You should have gotten a channel
> lock by now"). The odd thing is that the channels play fine if I watch
> them in xine and they also seem to record fine (based on a test I just
> did). Any idea why I might be getting this problem in Live TV?

I am having a similar problem. It doesn't happen always and I am not
100% what causes it. Suspending the frontend and resuming it seems to
be one of the triggers. I see this is on a frontend-only machine so I
doesn't seem to be a problem with the backend.

I wrote about the problem here, but haven't seen any suggestions:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/386649

I mention a couple of "workarounds" and other details like version I'm
running. Check the posting out to see if your problem is the same as
mine.

Cheers,

Eloy Paris.-
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jyavenard at gmail

Jul 4, 2009, 8:37 AM

Post #3 of 18 (2951 views)
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Re: Live TV channel lock issue [In reply to]

2009/7/5 Eloy Paris <peloy [at] chapus>:
\> I am having a similar problem. It doesn't happen always and I am not
> 100% what causes it. Suspending the frontend and resuming it seems to
> be one of the triggers. I see this is on a frontend-only machine so I
> doesn't seem to be a problem with the backend.


it's the backend that is getting a channel lock problem, not the
frontend. The frontend is just passining on the information

Usually it's due to a poor antenna signal, but as it works with other
media player, it's puzzling

the backend must show something in its log.. he'll need to post that
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mtdean at thirdcontact

Jul 4, 2009, 9:17 AM

Post #4 of 18 (2953 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV channel lock issue [In reply to]

On 07/04/2009 10:39 AM, Phill Edwards wrote:
> When I'm watching Live TV many (not all) of my Australian DVB-T
> channels fail to get a channel lock.("You should have gotten a channel
> lock by now"). The odd thing is that the channels play fine if I watch
> them in xine and they also seem to record fine (based on a test I just
> did). Any idea why I might be getting this problem in Live TV?

There's a setting in mythtv-setup:

Use quick tuning
- Never
- Live TV only
- Always
If enabled MythTV will tune using only the MPEG program number. The
program numbers change more often than DVB or ATSC tuning parameters, so
this is slightly less reliable. This will also inhibit EIT gathering
during Live TV and recording.

Do you have it set to Live TV only? If so, change it to Never.

Mike
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mtdean at thirdcontact

Jul 4, 2009, 9:18 AM

Post #5 of 18 (2952 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV channel lock issue [In reply to]

On 07/04/2009 12:17 PM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
> On 07/04/2009 10:39 AM, Phill Edwards wrote:
>
>> When I'm watching Live TV many (not all) of my Australian DVB-T
>> channels fail to get a channel lock.("You should have gotten a channel
>> lock by now"). The odd thing is that the channels play fine if I watch
>> them in xine and they also seem to record fine (based on a test I just
>> did). Any idea why I might be getting this problem in Live TV?
>>
>
> There's a setting in mythtv-setup:
>
> Use quick tuning
> - Never
> - Live TV only
> - Always
> If enabled MythTV will tune using only the MPEG program number. The
> program numbers change more often than DVB or ATSC tuning parameters, so
> this is slightly less reliable. This will also inhibit EIT gathering
> during Live TV and recording.
>
> Do you have it set to Live TV only? If so, change it to Never.
>

Ooops... Meant to also mention:

Tuning Timeout (msec)
Maximum time MythTV waits for a channel lock when scanning for channels.
Or, for issuing a warning in LiveTV mode.

which may need increasing.

Mike
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peloy at chapus

Jul 4, 2009, 3:14 PM

Post #6 of 18 (2935 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV channel lock issue [In reply to]

On Sun, Jul 05, 2009 at 01:37:41AM +1000, Jean-Yves Avenard wrote:

> 2009/7/5 Eloy Paris <peloy [at] chapus>:
> > I am having a similar problem. It doesn't happen always and I am not
> > 100% what causes it. Suspending the frontend and resuming it seems to
> > be one of the triggers. I see this is on a frontend-only machine so I
> > doesn't seem to be a problem with the backend.
>
> it's the backend that is getting a channel lock problem, not the
> frontend. The frontend is just passining on the information

That's the thing: as far as I can tell there is no channel lock problem
-- by the time I get the "You should have gotten a channel lock by now"
message, the frontend is already happily showing a LiveTV recording for
the selected channel and pressing "ok" in that dialog will keep LiveTV
going.

Another data point is that non-LiveTV recordings work just fine.

Also, once I start to get the "You should have gotten a channel lock
by now" message everytime I change a channel while watching LiveTV, I
can make the problem go away by restarting the frontend. I don't have
to touch the backend at all to make the problem go away. Of course, the
problem eventually comes back (I've noticed that a trigger is resuming
from S3 sleep.)

> Usually it's due to a poor antenna signal, but as it works with other
> media player, it's puzzling

Everything else works fine; if it were poor antenna signal I'd expect to
see pixelation or something wrong with the image, but no, it's perfect
at all times. No question it's puzzling, though.

> the backend must show something in its log.. he'll need to post that

I actually should increase verbosity of the backend log messages since
that's something I haven't done yet.

Cheers,

Eloy Paris.-
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peloy at chapus

Jul 4, 2009, 3:16 PM

Post #7 of 18 (2936 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV channel lock issue [In reply to]

On Sat, Jul 04, 2009 at 12:17:10PM -0400, Michael T. Dean wrote:

> On 07/04/2009 10:39 AM, Phill Edwards wrote:
> > When I'm watching Live TV many (not all) of my Australian DVB-T
> > channels fail to get a channel lock.("You should have gotten a channel
> > lock by now"). The odd thing is that the channels play fine if I watch
> > them in xine and they also seem to record fine (based on a test I just
> > did). Any idea why I might be getting this problem in Live TV?
>
> There's a setting in mythtv-setup:
>
> Use quick tuning
> - Never
> - Live TV only
> - Always
> If enabled MythTV will tune using only the MPEG program number. The
> program numbers change more often than DVB or ATSC tuning parameters, so
> this is slightly less reliable. This will also inhibit EIT gathering
> during Live TV and recording.
>
> Do you have it set to Live TV only? If so, change it to Never.

I have this parameter set to Never. I believe "Never" is not the default
but I changed it to "Never" when I started to experience the problem.

Cheers,

Eloy Paris.-
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peloy at chapus

Jul 4, 2009, 3:18 PM

Post #8 of 18 (2939 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV channel lock issue [In reply to]

On Sat, Jul 04, 2009 at 12:18:57PM -0400, Michael T. Dean wrote:

> On 07/04/2009 12:17 PM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
> > On 07/04/2009 10:39 AM, Phill Edwards wrote:
> >
> >> When I'm watching Live TV many (not all) of my Australian DVB-T
> >> channels fail to get a channel lock.("You should have gotten a channel
> >> lock by now"). The odd thing is that the channels play fine if I watch
> >> them in xine and they also seem to record fine (based on a test I just
> >> did). Any idea why I might be getting this problem in Live TV?
> >>
> >
> > There's a setting in mythtv-setup:
> >
> > Use quick tuning
> > - Never
> > - Live TV only
> > - Always
> > If enabled MythTV will tune using only the MPEG program number. The
> > program numbers change more often than DVB or ATSC tuning parameters, so
> > this is slightly less reliable. This will also inhibit EIT gathering
> > during Live TV and recording.
> >
> > Do you have it set to Live TV only? If so, change it to Never.
>
> Ooops... Meant to also mention:
>
> Tuning Timeout (msec)
> Maximum time MythTV waits for a channel lock when scanning for channels.
> Or, for issuing a warning in LiveTV mode.
>
> which may need increasing.

I haven't played with this parameter. Will take a look at it although
the image shows up in perfect quality and then a few seconds later I get
the "You should have gotten a channel lock by now" message (my guess is
that these few seconds are this timeout you mention.)

Cheers,

Eloy Paris.-

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peloy at chapus

Jul 4, 2009, 3:21 PM

Post #9 of 18 (2931 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV channel lock issue [In reply to]

Phill,

On Sun, Jul 05, 2009 at 12:39:47AM +1000, Phill Edwards wrote:

> When I'm watching Live TV many (not all) of my Australian DVB-T
> channels fail to get a channel lock.("You should have gotten a channel
> lock by now"). The odd thing is that the channels play fine if I watch
> them in xine and they also seem to record fine (based on a test I just
> did). Any idea why I might be getting this problem in Live TV?

What capture card and MythTV version are you using? Anything suspicious
in the frontend and backend log files?

Cheers,

Eloy Paris.-
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philledwards at gmail

Jul 5, 2009, 2:12 AM

Post #10 of 18 (2911 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV channel lock issue [In reply to]

> Do you have it set to Live TV only?  If so, change it to Never.

I tried changing it to Never before I posted but unfortunately it didn't help.

Regards,
Phill
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philledwards at gmail

Jul 5, 2009, 2:17 AM

Post #11 of 18 (2902 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV channel lock issue [In reply to]

> What capture card and MythTV version are you using? Anything suspicious
> in the frontend and backend log files?

I'm using K-World Xtreme DVB-T cards - 2 of them which have always
worked beautifully.

I'll change the logging to the log files and see what comes up.

I think my problem may be slightly different to your's as the picture
doesn't show up in mine. I just get the message but no picture.

Regards,
Phill
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peloy at chapus

Jul 5, 2009, 7:17 AM

Post #12 of 18 (2888 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV channel lock issue [In reply to]

On Sun, Jul 05, 2009 at 07:17:11PM +1000, Phill Edwards wrote:

[...]

> I think my problem may be slightly different to your's as the picture
> doesn't show up in mine. I just get the message but no picture.

Yes, based on this it does seem like our problems are completely
different.

Cheers,

Eloy Paris.-
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philledwards at gmail

Jul 12, 2009, 4:11 AM

Post #13 of 18 (2796 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV channel lock issue [In reply to]

> it's the backend that is getting a channel lock problem, not the
> frontend. The frontend is just passining on the information
>
> Usually it's due to a poor antenna signal, but as it works with other
> media player, it's puzzling
>
> the backend must show something in its log.. he'll need to post that

Here's my backend log from a Live TV session I just tried:

2009-07-12 21:06:17.272 MainServer::HandleAnnounce Playback
2009-07-12 21:06:17.275 adding: elm.edwards.home as a client (events: 0)
2009-07-12 21:06:17.278 TVRec(11): Changing from None to WatchingLiveTV
2009-07-12 21:06:17.285 TVRec(11): HW Tuner: 11->11
2009-07-12 21:06:18.407 CalcParams(): Max required Free Space: 3.0 GB
w/freq: 8 min
2009-07-12 21:06:25.649 TVRec(11): Changing from WatchingLiveTV to None
2009-07-12 21:06:25.687 Finished recording The Pursuit of Happyness:
channel 1009
2009-07-12 21:06:25.692 scheduler: Finished recording: The Pursuit of
Happyness: channel 1009

Can't see anything that jumps out as a problem here to indicate why it
can't get a lock on the DVB-T signal.

PS - my mythbackend logging in /etc/sysconfig/mythbackend is:
LOG_OPTS='important,general,schedule,record,channel'

Regards,
Phill
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philledwards at gmail

Jul 14, 2009, 8:52 PM

Post #14 of 18 (2726 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV channel lock issue [In reply to]

>> it's the backend that is getting a channel lock problem, not the
>> frontend. The frontend is just passining on the information
>>
>> Usually it's due to a poor antenna signal, but as it works with other
>> media player, it's puzzling
>>
>> the backend must show something in its log.. he'll need to post that
>
> Here's my backend log from a Live TV session I just tried:
>
> 2009-07-12 21:06:17.272 MainServer::HandleAnnounce Playback
> 2009-07-12 21:06:17.275 adding: elm.edwards.home as a client (events: 0)
> 2009-07-12 21:06:17.278 TVRec(11): Changing from None to WatchingLiveTV
> 2009-07-12 21:06:17.285 TVRec(11): HW Tuner: 11->11
> 2009-07-12 21:06:18.407 CalcParams(): Max required Free Space: 3.0 GB
> w/freq: 8 min
> 2009-07-12 21:06:25.649 TVRec(11): Changing from WatchingLiveTV to None
> 2009-07-12 21:06:25.687 Finished recording The Pursuit of Happyness:
> channel 1009
> 2009-07-12 21:06:25.692 scheduler: Finished recording: The Pursuit of
> Happyness: channel 1009
>
> Can't see anything that jumps out as a problem here to indicate why it
> can't get a lock on the DVB-T signal.
>
> PS - my mythbackend logging in /etc/sysconfig/mythbackend is:
> LOG_OPTS='important,general,schedule,record,channel'

Sorry to give this one a bump. I was just wondering if anyone had any
ideas how I can get to the bottom of this. Last time I tried to watch
LiveTV the problem was even worse with it now being unable to lock
onto a signal for any of my stations. Should I turn on all logging on
mythbackend, perhaps, to see if that provides any clues?

Regards,
Phill
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william_munson at comcast

Jul 15, 2009, 3:15 AM

Post #15 of 18 (2717 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV channel lock issue [In reply to]

Phill Edwards wrote:
>>> it's the backend that is getting a channel lock problem, not the
>>> frontend. The frontend is just passining on the information
>>>
>>> Usually it's due to a poor antenna signal, but as it works with other
>>> media player, it's puzzling
>>>
>>> the backend must show something in its log.. he'll need to post that
>>>
>> Here's my backend log from a Live TV session I just tried:
>>
>> 2009-07-12 21:06:17.272 MainServer::HandleAnnounce Playback
>> 2009-07-12 21:06:17.275 adding: elm.edwards.home as a client (events: 0)
>> 2009-07-12 21:06:17.278 TVRec(11): Changing from None to WatchingLiveTV
>> 2009-07-12 21:06:17.285 TVRec(11): HW Tuner: 11->11
>> 2009-07-12 21:06:18.407 CalcParams(): Max required Free Space: 3.0 GB
>> w/freq: 8 min
>> 2009-07-12 21:06:25.649 TVRec(11): Changing from WatchingLiveTV to None
>> 2009-07-12 21:06:25.687 Finished recording The Pursuit of Happyness:
>> channel 1009
>> 2009-07-12 21:06:25.692 scheduler: Finished recording: The Pursuit of
>> Happyness: channel 1009
>>
>> Can't see anything that jumps out as a problem here to indicate why it
>> can't get a lock on the DVB-T signal.
>>
>> PS - my mythbackend logging in /etc/sysconfig/mythbackend is:
>> LOG_OPTS='important,general,schedule,record,channel'
>>
>
> Sorry to give this one a bump. I was just wondering if anyone had any
> ideas how I can get to the bottom of this. Last time I tried to watch
> LiveTV the problem was even worse with it now being unable to lock
> onto a signal for any of my stations. Should I turn on all logging on
> mythbackend, perhaps, to see if that provides any clues?
>
> Regards,
> Phill
>

You may have already tried this. In mythtv-setup set both capture card
signal timeouts to a higher value. Doubling them usually works.
Sometimes myth takes longer to lock than other times, depending on
signal quality and other factors and this may explain why it sometimes
works.

W.
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philledwards at gmail

Jul 15, 2009, 6:20 AM

Post #16 of 18 (2711 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV channel lock issue [In reply to]

> You may have already tried this. In mythtv-setup set both capture card
> signal timeouts to a higher value. Doubling them usually works.

Unfortunately that didn't solve it. I'm back to it working on a couple
of channels again now, but it seems random which ones it will work on.

Couple of other things I've noticed:

- I'm starting to get a lot of zero size recordings and they're not
always the same channel. I had this problem a while back and re-tuned
and the problem went away. But I did a re-tune a few days ago so I
don't think that could be the cause this time.

- I've noticed lines like this in mythbackend.log which are around
when trying Live TV:
2009-07-15 23:17:34.209 Preview Error: Previewer file
'/video/livetv/1010_20090715231705.mpg' is not valid.
2009-07-15 23:17:34.211 Preview Error: Run() file not local:
'/video/livetv/1010_20090715231705.mpg'
2009-07-15 23:17:34.220 Preview Error: Preview process not ok.

fileinfo(/video/livetv/1010_20090715231705.mpg.png) exists: 0
readable: 0 size: 0


I'm wondering if the tuner cards are faulty. Do you think that could
be the cause? They've been pretty much fault-free for a few years, and
as DVB-T cards there's not really a lot to go wrong with them, is
there?

Regards,
Phill
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william_munson at comcast

Jul 15, 2009, 5:43 PM

Post #17 of 18 (2706 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV channel lock issue [In reply to]

Phill Edwards wrote:
> I'm wondering if the tuner cards are faulty. Do you think that could
> be the cause? They've been pretty much fault-free for a few years, and
> as DVB-T cards there's not really a lot to go wrong with them, is
> there?
>
> Regards,
> Phill
>
>
I would think it far more likely that your coax cable and / or
connectors are to blame. Especially if they are a few years old. I am
not sure what signal monitoring features your card has but you might
want to verify a good solid signal at the card.

W.
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beww at beww

Jul 15, 2009, 5:53 PM

Post #18 of 18 (2709 views)
Permalink
Re: Live TV channel lock issue [In reply to]

On Wednesday 15 July 2009 18:43:01 William wrote:
> Phill Edwards wrote:
> > I'm wondering if the tuner cards are faulty. Do you think that could
> > be the cause? They've been pretty much fault-free for a few years, and
> > as DVB-T cards there's not really a lot to go wrong with them, is
> > there?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Phill
>
> I would think it far more likely that your coax cable and / or
> connectors are to blame.

Or, another way to put it: It's far more likely you have a single failure than
that both cards simultaneously developed identical faults. Look for some
single point of failure first.

William is quite correct, measuring, or testing somehow, the signal at the
card input is a great idea. Try connecting some other receiving device to
precisely the same cable that's feeding your card(s), assuming you don't have
a signal level meter or similar device.



--
Brian Wood
beww [at] beww
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