Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Users

The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true?

1 2 3

View All

Index | Next | Previous | View Threaded

cynical at penguinness

Feb 24, 2009, 9:08 PM

Post #26 of 54 (1886 views)
Permalink

Re: The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true? [In reply to]

Dan Wilson wrote:

> You might take a look at www.mikrotik.com. I have used (and am using)
> their software in both their own hardware as well as in a standard PC,
*snip*

I'm already running pfsense on a VIA EPIA board, and quite happy with
the software, I just don't trust the hardware so much any more.

Anyway, this is getting fairly off topic, so anything further should be
taken off list. :-)
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

waxrat at comcast

Jul 1, 2009, 8:56 AM

Post #27 of 54 (1674 views)
Permalink

Re: The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true? [In reply to]

Michael Cook <waxrat [at] comcast> writes:

> "Steve Peters - Priority Electronics" <steve [at] priorityelectronics> writes:
>
>> The following link is a company on ebay selling a 1.8ghz Pentium M system
>> with 1gb ram and 2gb compact flash memory for the hard drive in a complete
>> mini itx system that measures 13" by 11" by 3" and it's all only $99 with
>> free shipping....Includes power supply and everything.
>>
>> What am I missing here. How is this company to do this for only $99.00? Or
>> is this the best deal you ever heard of? They seem to have very good ebay
>> reviews.
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/Mini-ITX-1-8GHz-iGoLogic-i3368G-LF-CPU-HTPC-Computer_W0QQitemZ220354063431QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDesktop_PCs?hash=item220354063431&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50
>
> FYI, mine arrived yesterday.

It died a few days ago.
After only 20 weeks.
The seller only said, "sorry".
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

beww at beww

Jul 1, 2009, 9:26 AM

Post #28 of 54 (1674 views)
Permalink

Re: The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true? [In reply to]

On Wednesday 01 July 2009 09:56:01 Michael Cook wrote:
> Michael Cook <waxrat [at] comcast> writes:
> > "Steve Peters - Priority Electronics" <steve [at] priorityelectronics>
writes:
> >> The following link is a company on ebay selling a 1.8ghz Pentium M
> >> system with 1gb ram and 2gb compact flash memory for the hard drive in a
> >> complete mini itx system that measures 13" by 11" by 3" and it's all
> >> only $99 with free shipping....Includes power supply and everything.
> >>
> >> What am I missing here. How is this company to do this for only $99.00?
> >> Or is this the best deal you ever heard of? They seem to have very good
> >> ebay reviews.
> >>
> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/Mini-ITX-1-8GHz-iGoLogic-i3368G-LF-CPU-HTPC-Computer
> >>_W0QQitemZ220354063431QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDesktop_PCs?hash=item22035406343
> >>1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13
> >>18|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50
> >
> > FYI, mine arrived yesterday.
>
> It died a few days ago.
> After only 20 weeks.
> The seller only said, "sorry".

I'm getting "invalid item" when I try and follow that link.

But that price is not too surprising if it's a used/refurbished unit with a
30-day or even just a DOA warranty. It's probably off-lease and was used as a
thin client.

I recall paying a similar price for a "U-Buddy", a similar device with a VIA
C2 Samuel a couple of years back. I had to add my own HDD, and it came with
256MB of RAM, but RAM is cheaper today.

More modern units sold as thin clients are selling for not too much more than
that, but new with a 1-year warranty.

It couldn't handle HD, but it might be a reasonable F/E for SD only.

I've played with some "thin clients" and they work OK for SD, but until we
start seeing ION units, HD is out of reach in that price range.

--
Brian Wood
beww [at] beww
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

Jim at Morton

Jul 1, 2009, 9:49 AM

Post #29 of 54 (1669 views)
Permalink

Re: The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true? [In reply to]

Michael Cook wrote:
> Michael Cook <waxrat [at] comcast> writes:
>
>
>> "Steve Peters - Priority Electronics" <steve [at] priorityelectronics> writes:
>>
>>
>>> The following link is a company on ebay selling a 1.8ghz Pentium M system
>>> with 1gb ram and 2gb compact flash memory for the hard drive in a complete
>>> mini itx system that measures 13" by 11" by 3" and it's all only $99 with
>>> free shipping....Includes power supply and everything.
>>>
>>> What am I missing here. How is this company to do this for only $99.00? Or
>>> is this the best deal you ever heard of? They seem to have very good ebay
>>> reviews.
>>>
>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/Mini-ITX-1-8GHz-iGoLogic-i3368G-LF-CPU-HTPC-Computer_W0QQitemZ220354063431QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDesktop_PCs?hash=item220354063431&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50
>>>
>> FYI, mine arrived yesterday.
>>
>
> It died a few days ago.
> After only 20 weeks.
> The seller only said, "sorry".
Maybe it can be fixed or is just a disposable unit? Maybe the seller
could point you the the mfg or some source of replacement parts. Sorry
to point out the obvious but it sounds as if you just gave up...

--
_________________________________________________________

Jim Morton

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

beww at beww

Jul 1, 2009, 9:53 AM

Post #30 of 54 (1678 views)
Permalink

Re: The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true? [In reply to]

On Wednesday 01 July 2009 10:49:53 Jim Morton wrote:

> > It died a few days ago.
> > After only 20 weeks.
> > The seller only said, "sorry".
>
> Maybe it can be fixed or is just a disposable unit? Maybe the seller
> could point you the the mfg or some source of replacement parts. Sorry
> to point out the obvious but it sounds as if you just gave up...

The problem is most likely the PSU, and the little power supplies in the mini
systems are very hard to replace. If you are capable of troubleshooting the
PSU to the component level you can probably repair it.

--
Brian Wood
beww [at] beww
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

waxrat at comcast

Jul 1, 2009, 10:21 AM

Post #31 of 54 (1668 views)
Permalink

Re: The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true? [In reply to]

Brian Wood <beww [at] beww> writes:

> The problem is most likely the PSU, and the little power supplies in the mini
> systems are very hard to replace. If you are capable of troubleshooting the
> PSU to the component level you can probably repair it.

The unit begins to boot (e.g., I see the Fedora Core splash screen),
then part way into the boot sequence, the screen goes blank and
nothing happens after that.
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

richard.e.morton at gmail

Jul 1, 2009, 12:35 PM

Post #32 of 54 (1661 views)
Permalink

Re: The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true? [In reply to]

Sounds like psu not supplying enough power when various components get
powered up in the boot sequence. Try running the system off a normal atx
power supply from a desktop.
If you had to buy one it would be less than20 quid.

Miniitx.com sell small formfactor silent power suuplies at reasonable prices

Rich

Please excuse brevity and mistakes, this email was composed on a mobile
phone.

Thanks and regards,
Richard Morton
07899750400

On Jul 1, 2009 6:21 PM, "Michael Cook" <waxrat [at] comcast> wrote:

Brian Wood <beww [at] beww> writes: > The problem is most likely the PSU, and
the little power suppl...
The unit begins to boot (e.g., I see the Fedora Core splash screen),
then part way into the boot sequence, the screen goes blank and
nothing happens after that.

_______________________________________________ mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv ht...

gull at gull

Jul 1, 2009, 1:28 PM

Post #33 of 54 (1659 views)
Permalink

Re: The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true? [In reply to]

On Wed, July 1, 2009 12:35 pm, Richard Morton wrote:
> Sounds like psu not supplying enough power when various components get
> powered up in the boot sequence.

Yup. I had the same problem with a miniITX system, a while back. I had
to dig through my hard disk collection and find one that drew less
current; after that it worked.

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

goofygrin at gmail

Jul 1, 2009, 6:40 PM

Post #34 of 54 (1643 views)
Permalink

Re: The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true? [In reply to]

This is why I'm using a NMT (networked media tank) as my front end. A bit
more expensive ($165ish), but smaller (15x11x5cm), low power, quiet, and
they play all my other formats too.

Sure the interface with Myth is a bit hacky and totally not 100%, but it
works.

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 3:28 PM, David Brodbeck <gull [at] gull> wrote:
>
> On Wed, July 1, 2009 12:35 pm, Richard Morton wrote:
> > Sounds like psu not supplying enough power when various components get
> > powered up in the boot sequence.
>
> Yup. I had the same problem with a miniITX system, a while back. I had
> to dig through my hard disk collection and find one that drew less
> current; after that it worked.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

beww at beww

Jul 1, 2009, 7:12 PM

Post #35 of 54 (1644 views)
Permalink

Re: The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true? [In reply to]

On Wednesday 01 July 2009 19:40:52 Sean Goodpasture wrote:
> This is why I'm using a NMT (networked media tank) as my front end. A bit
> more expensive ($165ish), but smaller (15x11x5cm), low power, quiet, and
> they play all my other formats too.
>
> Sure the interface with Myth is a bit hacky and totally not 100%, but it
> works.

What box precisely are you using? I just picked up a Myka. I think the Popcorn
hour is referred to as an NMT as well.

Are you just using the Myth UPnP server? How do you schedule recordings?

--
Brian Wood
beww [at] beww
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

goofygrin at gmail

Jul 1, 2009, 7:41 PM

Post #36 of 54 (1647 views)
Permalink

Re: The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true? [In reply to]

I'm using a K100 (Kaiboer brand) and have a couple eGreat's on their way.
I hacked mythweb...
http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showthread.php?tid=24292

<http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showthread.php?tid=24292>And I always
schedule with my computer. I've found the scheduling process in the
mythfrontend to be "cumbersome" at best and useless at worst. I also never
use LiveTV on my myth setup since it's always just crashed something... plus
commercials suck.

I want one box that can do it all... and a minimyth was pretty close, but
not quite there. The NMTs are the same, but I think they are better for all
the non myth media... in a smaller box.

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 9:12 PM, Brian Wood <beww [at] beww> wrote:

> On Wednesday 01 July 2009 19:40:52 Sean Goodpasture wrote:
> > This is why I'm using a NMT (networked media tank) as my front end. A
> bit
> > more expensive ($165ish), but smaller (15x11x5cm), low power, quiet, and
> > they play all my other formats too.
> >
> > Sure the interface with Myth is a bit hacky and totally not 100%, but it
> > works.
>
> What box precisely are you using? I just picked up a Myka. I think the
> Popcorn
> hour is referred to as an NMT as well.
>
> Are you just using the Myth UPnP server? How do you schedule recordings?
>
>
> --
> Brian Wood
> beww [at] beww
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

stuart at xnet

Jul 1, 2009, 8:25 PM

Post #37 of 54 (1638 views)
Permalink

Re: The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true? [In reply to]

<o-o people are top commenting again :O, I'll try to fix it...>

> Sean Goodpasture wrote:
>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 9:12 PM, Brian Wood <beww [at] beww
>> <mailto:beww [at] beww>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday 01 July 2009 19:40:52 Sean Goodpasture wrote:
>>> This is why I'm using a NMT (networked media tank) as my front
>>> end. A bit
>>> more expensive ($165ish), but smaller (15x11x5cm), low power,
>>> quiet, and
>>> they play all my other formats too.
>>>
>>> Sure the interface with Myth is a bit hacky and totally not 100%,
>>> but it
>>> works.
>>
>> What box precisely are you using? I just picked up a Myka. I think
>> the Popcorn
>> hour is referred to as an NMT as well.
>>
>> Are you just using the Myth UPnP server? How do you schedule recordings?
>> --
>> Brian Wood
>> beww [at] beww <mailto:beww [at] beww>
>
> I'm using a K100 (Kaiboer brand) and have a couple eGreat's on their way.
>
> I hacked
> mythweb... http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showthread.php?tid=24292
>
> <http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showthread.php?tid=24292>And I always
> schedule with my computer. I've found the scheduling process in the
> mythfrontend to be "cumbersome" at best and useless at worst. I also
> never use LiveTV on my myth setup since it's always just crashed
> something... plus commercials suck.
>
> I want one box that can do it all... and a minimyth was pretty close,
> but not quite there. The NMTs are the same, but I think they are better
> for all the non myth media... in a smaller box.

The PopCornHour and the NetworkMediaTank are the same AFAIK. It is the
marriage of SigmaDesign hardware and Syabas (Linux based) software. You
will find this mix in various forms dating back years and popping up in
no name as well as well known brand boxes. People are working on these
boxes (i.e. something more interesting then just re purposing the
existing software) in order to make the mythtv experience more fluid. I
don't think anyone is actually porting the real mythfrontend. It is
more likely you will eventually see a custom front end that can speak
natively to the mythbackend.

All that said, small form factor computers are catching up in size and
price. I don't think SigmaDesign or Syabas have been extremely
supportive of the open source community in the past. Too bad because as
small computers that can support a real mythfrontend start popping up,
open source interest in these dedicated boxes will likely falter.

Comments? Did I leave anything out?

-thanks
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

goofygrin at gmail

Jul 1, 2009, 8:32 PM

Post #38 of 54 (1640 views)
Permalink

Re: The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true? [In reply to]

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 10:25 PM, stuart <stuart [at] xnet> wrote:

>
> <o-o people are top commenting again :O, I'll try to fix it...>
>
> Sean Goodpasture wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 9:12 PM, Brian Wood <beww [at] beww <mailto:
>>> beww [at] beww>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wednesday 01 July 2009 19:40:52 Sean Goodpasture wrote:
>>>> This is why I'm using a NMT (networked media tank) as my front
>>>> end. A bit
>>>> more expensive ($165ish), but smaller (15x11x5cm), low power,
>>>> quiet, and
>>>> they play all my other formats too.
>>>>
>>>> Sure the interface with Myth is a bit hacky and totally not 100%,
>>>> but it
>>>> works.
>>>>
>>>
>>> What box precisely are you using? I just picked up a Myka. I think
>>> the Popcorn
>>> hour is referred to as an NMT as well.
>>>
>>> Are you just using the Myth UPnP server? How do you schedule
>>> recordings?
>>> --
>>> Brian Wood
>>> beww [at] beww <mailto:beww [at] beww>
>>>
>>
>> I'm using a K100 (Kaiboer brand) and have a couple eGreat's on their way.
>> I hacked mythweb...
>> http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showthread.php?tid=24292
>> <http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showthread.php?tid=24292>And I
>> always schedule with my computer. I've found the scheduling process in the
>> mythfrontend to be "cumbersome" at best and useless at worst. I also
>> never use LiveTV on my myth setup since it's always just crashed
>> something... plus commercials suck.
>> I want one box that can do it all... and a minimyth was pretty close,
>> but not quite there. The NMTs are the same, but I think they are better
>> for all the non myth media... in a smaller box.
>>
>
> The PopCornHour and the NetworkMediaTank are the same AFAIK. It is the
> marriage of SigmaDesign hardware and Syabas (Linux based) software. You
> will find this mix in various forms dating back years and popping up in no
> name as well as well known brand boxes. People are working on these boxes
> (i.e. something more interesting then just re purposing the existing
> software) in order to make the mythtv experience more fluid. I don't think
> anyone is actually porting the real mythfrontend. It is more likely you
> will eventually see a custom front end that can speak natively to the
> mythbackend.
>
> All that said, small form factor computers are catching up in size and
> price. I don't think SigmaDesign or Syabas have been extremely supportive
> of the open source community in the past. Too bad because as small
> computers that can support a real mythfrontend start popping up, open source
> interest in these dedicated boxes will likely falter.
>
> Comments? Did I leave anything out?
>
> -thanks
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

Top commenting = better, but whatever.

The NMT is $165-170. Has HDMI and optical outs. It plays whatever video
format you can throw at it (1080p BR rips, no problemo as long as the
network or attached hard drive can keep up). I spent a few hours on a
Sunday hacking Mythweb to allow me to play & delete recordings off of the
mythbackend. My time's not free, but I would have spent it dealing with the
mythfrontend anyway.

I just got done building a front end.
Nice Asus motherboard, 5050e CPU, 2 gigs of ram, $160
Basic HTPCish case: $50
basic memory stick for booting minimyth: $5
MCE Remote: $15

WAF? Good for myth. Bad for media, especially trying to get VDPAU to work
causing DVD ISOs to die and general instability on the frontend.

And I'm seeing quite a bit of traction with new application development for
the NMTs (Syabas = Popcorn Hour, NMT = generic name for the devices). A lot
of people have then working as automatic torrent downloading devices (so a
DVR of sorts really).

I've been doing the HTPC thing for a loooong time. Any time I can replace
the computer with an off the shelf solution, I do it because when my wife
wants to watch a movie, she doesn't want to have to call me to help. I even
bought one of the original Bravo D1's because of this!

jarod at wilsonet

Jul 1, 2009, 9:23 PM

Post #39 of 54 (1638 views)
Permalink

Re: The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true? [In reply to]

On Wednesday 01 July 2009 23:32:39 Sean Goodpasture wrote:
> WAF? Good for myth. Bad for media, especially trying to get VDPAU to work
> causing DVD ISOs to die and general instability on the frontend.

Let me just point something out...

The VDPAU code is still relatively new, and only (officially) in the
development branch of MythTV. Its still being twiddled almost daily.

And VDPAU for DVD playback? Why?!?

Note that I have yet to bother jumping on the VDPAU band-wagon, so
perhaps I'm missing out on something, but last time I used an nVidia
card in a Myth box, it could handle even HDTV recordings w/o the
cpu even scaling up from its minimum frequency. Oh, and all my boxes
have been pretty much rock-solid running VDPAU-less svn trunk for ages.
Hell, even my Atom N270 and Atom 330 systems w/gma 950 graphics can
*almost* do HDTV fine, so anything better than an EPIA w/an nVidia
card should be more than fine w/o VDPAU for playback of everything
but h.264, I would think...

Moral of the story: VDPAU still development code, and not a magic
bullet (yet). Don't expect miracles. Play with fire, get burned. Etc.

/me really needs to replace his D945GCLF2 w/an Atom 330 Ion or
something and find out what he's really missing...

--
Jarod Wilson
jarod [at] wilsonet
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

bill at bbqninja

Jul 1, 2009, 9:46 PM

Post #40 of 54 (1636 views)
Permalink

Re: The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true? [In reply to]

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Jarod Wilson <jarod [at] wilsonet> wrote:

> On Wednesday 01 July 2009 23:32:39 Sean Goodpasture wrote:
> > WAF? Good for myth. Bad for media, especially trying to get VDPAU to
> work
> > causing DVD ISOs to die and general instability on the frontend.
>
> Let me just point something out...
>
> The VDPAU code is still relatively new, and only (officially) in the
> development branch of MythTV. Its still being twiddled almost daily.

This is a point in favor of a non-myth frontend though, if the options are
"don't watch HD content" or "watch HD content" for the time being...

>
> And VDPAU for DVD playback? Why?!?

Deinterlacing and scaling. Back 5 years ago nvidia had the best dvd
playback with their pure-video stuff for windows. It's only gotten better.

> Note that I have yet to bother jumping on the VDPAU band-wagon, so
> perhaps I'm missing out on something, but last time I used an nVidia
> card in a Myth box, it could handle even HDTV recordings w/o the
> cpu even scaling up from its minimum frequency. Oh, and all my boxes
> have been pretty much rock-solid running VDPAU-less svn trunk for ages.
> Hell, even my Atom N270 and Atom 330 systems w/gma 950 graphics can
> *almost* do HDTV fine, so anything better than an EPIA w/an nVidia
> card should be more than fine w/o VDPAU for playback of everything
> but h.264, I would think...
>

Everything "HD" now is h.264. The new dvb-s2 stuff is h.264, and around the
world dvb-t is slowly moving to it as well. There are some current HD
channels in DVB-T that broadcast in mpeg-2 high bitrate, but 99% of the time
they are 1080i and thus you need a beefy machine to do deinterlacing that
doesn't look completely horrible.

You need a REALLY powerful machine to do this in software with
deinterlacing, or do to it all for blu-ray type bitrates. Your systems
cannot do this.

>
> Moral of the story: VDPAU still development code, and not a magic
> bullet (yet). Don't expect miracles. Play with fire, get burned. Etc.

Again, the options are:
1. use unstable vdpau now
2. use NOTHING now and wait for vdpau to stablize
3. use a different solution

I'm doing a combo of #1 and #3. I use mythtv for my DVR tv, and a PCH for
all recordings/dvds/etc. I'm working on a small python server talking the
mythtv API so that I can use a PCH for EVERYTHING.

Mythtv is still unbeaten on the back end so that doesn't come into this at
all.

None of this is meant as unappreciation, but to show where people are coming
from. Once .22 is out and stable I'll likely come back to it, but for now
it's either XBMC or PCH for me, and the PCH is tiny, silent, and cheap...

jarod at wilsonet

Jul 1, 2009, 10:11 PM

Post #41 of 54 (1635 views)
Permalink

Re: The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true? [In reply to]

On Thursday 02 July 2009 00:46:52 Bill Williamson wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Jarod Wilson <jarod [at] wilsonet> wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday 01 July 2009 23:32:39 Sean Goodpasture wrote:
> > > WAF? Good for myth. Bad for media, especially trying to get VDPAU to
> > work
> > > causing DVD ISOs to die and general instability on the frontend.
> >
> > Let me just point something out...
> >
> > The VDPAU code is still relatively new, and only (officially) in the
> > development branch of MythTV. Its still being twiddled almost daily.
>
>
> This is a point in favor of a non-myth frontend though, if the options are
> "don't watch HD content" or "watch HD content" for the time being...

As I (thought I) said, I watch HDTV content ALL THE TIME without VDPAU.
Hell, I'm not even using nVidia graphics, I'm using Intel.

> > And VDPAU for DVD playback? Why?!?
>
> Deinterlacing and scaling. Back 5 years ago nvidia had the best dvd
> playback with their pure-video stuff for windows. It's only gotten better.

I guess I just expect DVD video to look relatively crappy after all the
stuff I've watched in high-def. :)

> > Note that I have yet to bother jumping on the VDPAU band-wagon, so
> > perhaps I'm missing out on something, but last time I used an nVidia
> > card in a Myth box, it could handle even HDTV recordings w/o the
> > cpu even scaling up from its minimum frequency. Oh, and all my boxes
> > have been pretty much rock-solid running VDPAU-less svn trunk for ages.
> > Hell, even my Atom N270 and Atom 330 systems w/gma 950 graphics can
> > *almost* do HDTV fine, so anything better than an EPIA w/an nVidia
> > card should be more than fine w/o VDPAU for playback of everything
> > but h.264, I would think...
> >
>
> Everything "HD" now is h.264.

I wish. I'm on the other side of the pond, where everything is mpeg2,
and ain't going to change anytime soon. Perhaps VDPAU is far more of
a necessity outside the US then. Hadn't considered that.

> The new dvb-s2 stuff is h.264, and around the
> world dvb-t is slowly moving to it as well. There are some current HD
> channels in DVB-T that broadcast in mpeg-2 high bitrate, but 99% of the time
> they are 1080i and thus you need a beefy machine to do deinterlacing that
> doesn't look completely horrible.
>
> You need a REALLY powerful machine to do this in software with
> deinterlacing, or do to it all for blu-ray type bitrates. Your systems
> cannot do this.

The Atom systems, of course not. But those aren't my myth frontends. I
use a core 2 duo for that, and it handles most h.264 1080p material
rather well. Not full blu-ray bitrate stuff, no. That's why Dell ships
these things (Studio Hybrid) w/a dedicated decoder card (which I didn't
get in mine, since its Broadcom-made, and they suck at open source).
But in any case, its still not using VDPAU for the stuff it does play
back. My workstation handles anything and everything w/o a problem, but
its a core 2 quad w/a quadro fx video card (which does support VDPAU,
but I've not bothered to set up for such). Of course, I wouldn't want
to put that in the living room...

> > Moral of the story: VDPAU still development code, and not a magic
> > bullet (yet). Don't expect miracles. Play with fire, get burned. Etc.
>
>
> Again, the options are:

The options *if your feed(s) is/are h.264*. Again, mine aren't.

> 1. use unstable vdpau now
> 2. use NOTHING now and wait for vdpau to stablize
> 3. use a different solution
>
> I'm doing a combo of #1 and #3. I use mythtv for my DVR tv, and a PCH for
> all recordings/dvds/etc. I'm working on a small python server talking the
> mythtv API so that I can use a PCH for EVERYTHING.

I still need to pick one of those up some day to play with. Sadly,
not enough hours in the day for all the toys I want to play with
anymore...

> None of this is meant as unappreciation, but to show where people are coming
> from.

Typical American, I wasn't considering that the rest of the world isn't
stuck with the same bullshit broadcast standards we have. Thank you for
bringing this to my attention, it all makes more sense now. :)

--
Jarod Wilson
jarod [at] wilsonet
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

bill at bbqninja

Jul 1, 2009, 10:21 PM

Post #42 of 54 (1627 views)
Permalink

Re: The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true? [In reply to]

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Jarod Wilson <jarod [at] wilsonet> wrote:

> On Thursday 02 July 2009 00:46:52 Bill Williamson wrote:
> > > Moral of the story: VDPAU still development code, and not a magic
> > > bullet (yet). Don't expect miracles. Play with fire, get burned. Etc.
> >
> >
> > Again, the options are:
>
> The options *if your feed(s) is/are h.264*. Again, mine aren't.
>

The other thing is, can your machines deinterlace 1080i mpeg2 HD content
such that it doesn't look horrible? Even for sports?

Mine cannot without VDPAU, and they're not top of the line but they are
middle of the line (AMD64 5500+ type thing)

jarod at wilsonet

Jul 1, 2009, 11:11 PM

Post #43 of 54 (1626 views)
Permalink

Re: The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true? [In reply to]

On Thursday 02 July 2009 01:21:31 Bill Williamson wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Jarod Wilson <jarod [at] wilsonet> wrote:
>
> > On Thursday 02 July 2009 00:46:52 Bill Williamson wrote:
> > > > Moral of the story: VDPAU still development code, and not a magic
> > > > bullet (yet). Don't expect miracles. Play with fire, get burned. Etc.
> > >
> > >
> > > Again, the options are:
> >
> > The options *if your feed(s) is/are h.264*. Again, mine aren't.
> >
>
> The other thing is, can your machines deinterlace 1080i mpeg2 HD content
> such that it doesn't look horrible? Even for sports?

Yes.

> Mine cannot without VDPAU, and they're not top of the line but they are
> middle of the line (AMD64 5500+ type thing)

If I'm remembering correctly, I don't actually have *any* deinterlacer
enabled. I really should do some research some day to figure out why
I don't need one. Its either that my set (a 1080p LCD) does deint for
me, or by virtue of feeding a perfect 1080p signal to it, one simply
isn't needed. Or maybe I do have one enabled. Anyway, yes, my 1080i
mpeg2 HD content looks very much non-horrible, even for sports.

(I'd just go double-check if a deint filter is enabled, but I'm out
of town on vacation right now).

--
Jarod Wilson
jarod [at] wilsonet
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

sonofzev at iinet

Jul 2, 2009, 1:32 AM

Post #44 of 54 (1630 views)
Permalink

Re: The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true? [In reply to]

On Thu Jul 2 16:11 , Jarod Wilson sent:

>On Thursday 02 July 2009 01:21:31 Bill Williamson wrote:
>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Jarod Wilson jarod [at] wilsonet> wrote:
>>
>> > On Thursday 02 July 2009 00:46:52 Bill Williamson wrote:
>> > > > Moral of the story: VDPAU still development code, and not a magic
>> > > > bullet (yet). Don't expect miracles. Play with fire, get burned. Etc.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Again, the options are:
>> >
>> > The options *if your feed(s) is/are h.264*. Again, mine aren't.
>> >
>>
>> The other thing is, can your machines deinterlace 1080i mpeg2 HD content
>> such that it doesn't look horrible? Even for sports?
>
>Yes.
>
>> Mine cannot without VDPAU, and they're not top of the line but they are
>> middle of the line (AMD64 5500+ type thing)
>

Yes, mine do... I'm using an opteron 170.. with a fully optimised
(arch=opteron-sse) Gentoo OS underneath which I believe makes a big difference...

>If I'm remembering correctly, I don't actually have *any* deinterlacer
>enabled. I really should do some research some day to figure out why
>I don't need one. Its either that my set (a 1080p LCD) does deint for
>me, or by virtue of feeding a perfect 1080p signal to it, one simply
>isn't needed. Or maybe I do have one enabled. Anyway, yes, my 1080i
>mpeg2 HD content looks very much non-horrible, even for sports.
>
>(I'd just go double-check if a deint filter is enabled, but I'm out
>of town on vacation right now).
>
>--
>Jarod Wilson
>jarod [at] wilsonet
>_______________________________________________
>mythtv-users mailing list
>mythtv-users [at] mythtv
>http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>)

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

jyavenard at gmail

Jul 2, 2009, 3:52 AM

Post #45 of 54 (1594 views)
Permalink

Re: The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true? [In reply to]

Hi

2009/7/2 Jarod Wilson <jarod [at] wilsonet>:
> As I (thought I) said, I watch HDTV content ALL THE TIME without VDPAU.
> Hell, I'm not even using nVidia graphics, I'm using Intel.

I'm guessing your HDTV content is just mpeg2 ...

My E8500 (3.16GHz Core 2 Duo, 6MB of cache per core), struggle with a
few bluray RIP (h264 content) I've (the worse being Stardust, it
stutter like crazy).
That's 1080p at 24Hz.

If I want to use any of the advanced software deinterlacer (like Yadif
2X) on 1080i content, CPU usage jumps to over 140% and it starts
stuttering, so I had to settle for lesser deinterlacers (usually
kernel 2X)

But, you said you don't even use any deinterlacers ... Personally, I
don't understand how anyone wouldn't be bothered watching
non-deinterlaced content on TV ...

Looks to me more and more than those who criticise heavily VDPAU has
not being necessary or useful actually never ever tried it.

Few people here, have commented on how vdpau wasn't necessary, yet
once they tried didn't go back to their earlier setting.

Personally, I've been using VDPAU exclusively for months. Yes there
are issues from time to time with the PC freezing, this happens a lot
with 185.18.14 (at least for me), maybe once a week with drivers
180.60.

But as how reliable is VDPAU in mythtv, I would say very... I have
never seen a DVD playing properly with software decoding but not with
vdpau.
Back in the early days (like 4 months ago) sure...
but not now.

Mark Kendall and Isaac have done a tremendous job here.

>
>> > And VDPAU for DVD playback? Why?!?

Because, unfortunately, mythtv doesn't let you use a given decoder for
a specific codec. only depending on the resolution.
So if you use VDPAU, it has to be for all content.

> I wish. I'm on the other side of the pond, where everything is mpeg2,
> and ain't going to change anytime soon. Perhaps VDPAU is far more of
> a necessity outside the US then. Hadn't considered that.

If you use a HD-PVR, it seems that software decoding requires a C2D > 3GHz...

> back. My workstation handles anything and everything w/o a problem, but
> its a core 2 quad w/a quadro fx video card (which does support VDPAU,
> but I've not bothered to set up for such). Of course, I wouldn't want
> to put that in the living room...

I think having a dual or quad CPU here will make no difference, only
the frequency.. h264 decoding currently isn't multi-threaded... So
with a quad core, you'll find that one core is at 100% the others at 0

>
>> > Moral of the story: VDPAU still development code, and not a magic
>> > bullet (yet). Don't expect miracles. Play with fire, get burned. Etc.

I'd say it is just mildly warm now.. Actually quite nice thing to hold :)

> Typical American, I wasn't considering that the rest of the world isn't
> stuck with the same bullshit broadcast standards we have. Thank you for
> bringing this to my attention, it all makes more sense now. :)

Oz is stuck with mpeg2 too unfortunately, so we are stuck with very
low quality content.
They have just introduced new channels but as they can't use new
frequencies, all they could do is reduce the quality of the channel to
broadcast new ones.

One channel even stopped broadcasting a channel is HD just to add another one...

Should they have used h264, this would have never happened.
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

nikos.f at gmail

Jul 2, 2009, 5:43 AM

Post #46 of 54 (1587 views)
Permalink

Re: The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true? [In reply to]

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 11:23 PM, Jarod Wilson<jarod [at] wilsonet> wrote:
> Moral of the story: VDPAU still development code, and not a magic
> bullet (yet). Don't expect miracles. Play with fire, get burned. Etc.
>
> /me really needs to replace his D945GCLF2 w/an Atom 330 Ion or
> something and find out what he's really missing...

No need to throw out the D945GCLF2 Atom board just yet. I added a
Sparkle 8400GS PCI card to mine, and now it plays back with all the
VDPAU goodness I could expect. I also have an ION board in another
frontend, and there's not a lot of difference between the two
machines. Both handle Bluray playback just fine, and 1080i looks
good. So - a $40 upgrade will get you almost all of the way. As an
aside, using JY's (unofficial, unsupported, caveat emptor, caveat
mythtor) fixes backport things have been surprisingly stable for me -
DVD playback included.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187041
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

pjn at pobox

Jul 2, 2009, 7:33 AM

Post #47 of 54 (1579 views)
Permalink

Re: The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true? [In reply to]

On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 07:43:24 -0500, Nick F <nikos.f [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 11:23 PM, Jarod Wilson<jarod [at] wilsonet> wrote:
>> Moral of the story: VDPAU still development code, and not a magic
>> bullet (yet). Don't expect miracles. Play with fire, get burned. Etc.
>>
>> /me really needs to replace his D945GCLF2 w/an Atom 330 Ion or
>> something and find out what he's really missing...
>
> No need to throw out the D945GCLF2 Atom board just yet. I added a
> Sparkle 8400GS PCI card to mine, and now it plays back with all the
> VDPAU goodness I could expect. I also have an ION board in another
> frontend, and there's not a lot of difference between the two
> machines. Both handle Bluray playback just fine, and 1080i looks
> good. So - a $40 upgrade will get you almost all of the way. As an
> aside, using JY's (unofficial, unsupported, caveat emptor, caveat
> mythtor) fixes backport things have been surprisingly stable for me -
> DVD playback included.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187041

Am I missing something? How are you playing back blu-ray on a myth box? I
thought you couldn't play back blue-ray in linux.
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

mrrooster at gmail

Jul 2, 2009, 7:55 AM

Post #48 of 54 (1579 views)
Permalink

Re: The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true? [In reply to]

2009/2/4 Robert McNamara <robert.mcnamara [at] gmail>

> [Snip]
>
> Pentium M processors are single core processors derived from the
> Pentium III. The Atom preocessors are similar in clock rate to this
> chip, with a design closer to the (much much more efficient per-clock)
> Core series, and in some cases dual core. So yeah, in addition to
> being much less power hungry, the Atoms are substantially faster than
> a Pentium M. :)
>

I'm not sure this is correct? As I understand it the Pentium M is a pentium
pro derivative (via the P-III) as is the Core and Core 2 (the Core was the
next step on from the Pentium M, improving on it's fp performance among
onther things.)

The Atom is a pentium derivative I think. (Obviously both are far removed
from their parent chips, but the Atom is a family 5 (Pentium) and the P-M a
family 6 (P Pro)).

Ian

beww at beww

Jul 2, 2009, 8:46 AM

Post #49 of 54 (1578 views)
Permalink

Re: The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true? [In reply to]

On Wednesday 01 July 2009 22:46:52 Bill Williamson wrote:

>
> None of this is meant as unappreciation, but to show where people are
> coming from. Once .22 is out and stable I'll likely come back to it, but
> for now it's either XBMC or PCH for me, and the PCH is tiny, silent, and
> cheap...

Does the PCH allow you access to the underlying Linux OS? The Myka has telnet
access, an ftp server etc. and is basically "hacker friendly".

The form factor is certainly great, and so far it has been able to play
anything I have thrown at it. At $199 it's a little more than the PCH, but
not by much. I get access to Netflix by using PlayON, and can access Myth via
its UPnP server. No commercial skip, but ultimatelty I'd like to see a Myth
F/E running on it, even if it has to be a stripped down version.

--
Brian Wood
beww [at] beww
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

gull at gull

Jul 2, 2009, 9:34 AM

Post #50 of 54 (1564 views)
Permalink

Re: The $99 frontend is here. Is this too good to be true? [In reply to]

Jean-Yves Avenard wrote:
> But, you said you don't even use any deinterlacers ... Personally, I
> don't understand how anyone wouldn't be bothered watching
> non-deinterlaced content on TV ...

Maybe they're outputting to an interlaced display.

I still have an analog SDTV setup and I output straight to a standard
analog TV set with no deinterlacing. Looks great.

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

1 2 3

View All

Index | Next | Previous | View Threaded

Interested in having your list archived? Contact Gossamer Threads