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erik at hovland

Jun 27, 2009, 2:23 AM

Post #1 of 59 (3604 views)
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gentoo, latest mythtv - mythfrontend has no text

I booted my frontend this evening after being on vacation for a week.
And up popped...no text. The interwebs are full of advice like setting
DRI to off and XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS=1. Those don't seems to work.

Anyone have some other advice before I begin reverted the
merged packages from last week?

Thanks

E

--
Erik Hovland
erik [at] hovland
http://hovland.org/
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drayson at net1plus

Jun 27, 2009, 5:32 AM

Post #2 of 59 (3483 views)
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Re: gentoo, latest mythtv - mythfrontend has no text [In reply to]

> I booted my frontend this evening after being on vacation for a week.
> And up popped...no text. The interwebs are full of advice like setting
> DRI to off and XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS=1. Those don't seems to work.
>
> Anyone have some other advice before I begin reverted the
> merged packages from last week?
>
> Thanks
>
> E
>
> --
> Erik Hovland
> erik [at] hovland
> http://hovland.org/
> _______________________________________________

Define, latest. I am running Myth on Gentoo one update behind trunk and not
seeing this issue.
Also, can you see text in X at all? If its happening in X it could be an
issue that I have as well.
My HDTV reports bad info over EDID so I have the following set in my
xorg.conf.
Option "UseEdidDpi" "FALSE"
Option "DPI" "96 x 96"
If I do not have this, text shows up as only a pixel high.

Marc

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digitalaudiorock at gmail

Jun 27, 2009, 7:35 AM

Post #3 of 59 (3475 views)
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Re: gentoo, latest mythtv - mythfrontend has no text [In reply to]

On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 5:23 AM, Erik Hovland<erik [at] hovland> wrote:
> I booted my frontend this evening after being on vacation for a week.
> And up popped...no text. The interwebs are full of advice like setting
> DRI to off and XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS=1. Those don't seems to work.
>
> Anyone have some other advice before I begin reverted the
> merged packages from last week?
>
> Thanks
>
> E
>
> --
> Erik Hovland
> erik [at] hovland
> http://hovland.org/

When you say "latest mythtv" do you mean trunk? I'm running
0.21-fixes rev 20500 under Gentoo with pretty close to the most recent
stable Gentoo packages: x11-base/xorg-server-1.5.3-r6,
2.6.28-gentoo-r5 kernel etc. I have no such problem.

What upgrades did you recently merge?

Tom
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erik at hovland

Jun 27, 2009, 8:44 AM

Post #4 of 59 (3470 views)
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Re: gentoo, latest mythtv - mythfrontend has no text [In reply to]

> When you say "latest mythtv" do you mean trunk?� I'm running
> 0.21-fixes rev 20500 under Gentoo with pretty close to the most recent
> stable Gentoo packages: x11-base/xorg-server-1.5.3-r6,
> 2.6.28-gentoo-r5 kernel etc.� I have no such problem.

Sorry, late night. But no excuse. I am running the 0.21, r19961 on both frontends. Both have xorg-server 1.5.3-r6 and kernel 2.6.27-gentoo-r8. But one is x86 while the other is amd64 (also the backend).

> What upgrades did you recently merge?

The xorg-server and the necessary input drivers. But so far reverting to xorg-server 1.3.0 did not yield any good results.

I doubt this is mythtv. All of my searches show that the problem lies elsewhere but mythtv exposes it.

The symptom to state more clearly is that after mythfrontend launches I see the image caching progress and then the screen only has the theme background. The Xorg log does not have any (EE) entries and running -v most on the frontend does not turn up anything except that the mythweather jobs don't start like they normally would.

Thanks

E

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erik at hovland

Jun 27, 2009, 9:01 AM

Post #5 of 59 (3468 views)
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Re: gentoo, latest mythtv - mythfrontend has no text [In reply to]

> Also, can you see text in X at all? If its happening in X it could be an
> issue that I have as well.
> My HDTV reports bad info over EDID so I have the following set in my
> xorg.conf.
>� � Option� � � � "UseEdidDpi" "FALSE"
>� � Option� � � � "DPI" "96 x 96"
> If I do not have this, text shows up as only a pixel high.

I have one frontend that requires EDID ignoring. But I have another frontend that uses a plain, old CRT. Both exhibit the problem.

I responded in another thread about my s/w versions. So I will refrain from repeating them here.

Thanks

E
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gravityhammer at gmail

Jun 27, 2009, 9:23 AM

Post #6 of 59 (3472 views)
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Re: gentoo, latest mythtv - mythfrontend has no text [In reply to]

On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Erik Hovland<erik [at] hovland> wrote:
>> When you say "latest mythtv" do you mean trunk?� I'm running
>> 0.21-fixes rev 20500 under Gentoo with pretty close to the most recent
>> stable Gentoo packages: x11-base/xorg-server-1.5.3-r6,
>> 2.6.28-gentoo-r5 kernel etc.� I have no such problem.
>
> Sorry, late night. But no excuse. I am running the 0.21, r19961 on both frontends. Both have xorg-server 1.5.3-r6 and kernel 2.6.27-gentoo-r8. But one is x86 while the other is amd64 (also the backend).
>
>> What upgrades did you recently merge?
>
> The xorg-server and the necessary input drivers. But so far reverting to xorg-server 1.3.0 did not yield any good results.
>
> I doubt this is mythtv. All of my searches show that the problem lies elsewhere but mythtv exposes it.
>
> The symptom to state more clearly is that after mythfrontend launches I see the image caching progress and then the screen only has the theme background. The Xorg log does not have any (EE) entries and running -v most on the frontend does not turn up anything except that the mythweather jobs don't start like they normally would.
>

Sounds like a themepainter issue to me. does mythfrontend -O
Themepainter=qt show the text?

Are you running an nvidia card? are you using nv or nvidia drivers?
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bradallenfuller at gmail

Jun 27, 2009, 9:39 AM

Post #7 of 59 (3473 views)
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Re: gentoo, latest mythtv - mythfrontend has no text [In reply to]

On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 2:23 AM, Erik Hovland <erik [at] hovland> wrote:
>
> I booted my frontend this evening after being on vacation for a week.
> And up popped...no text. The interwebs are full of advice like setting
> DRI to off and XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS=1. Those don't seems to work.
>
> Anyone have some other advice before I begin reverted the
> merged packages from last week?

could it be something to do with the update to Xorg 1.5?
more here:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/x/x11/xorg-server-1.5-upgrade-guide.xml

--
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DEPontius at edgehp

Jun 27, 2009, 7:52 PM

Post #8 of 59 (3439 views)
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Re: gentoo, latest mythtv - mythfrontend has no text [In reply to]

Phil Bridges wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Erik Hovland<erik [at] hovland> wrote:
>>> When you say "latest mythtv" do you mean trunk? I'm running
>>> 0.21-fixes rev 20500 under Gentoo with pretty close to the most recent
>>> stable Gentoo packages: x11-base/xorg-server-1.5.3-r6,
>>> 2.6.28-gentoo-r5 kernel etc. I have no such problem.
>> Sorry, late night. But no excuse. I am running the 0.21, r19961 on both frontends. Both have xorg-server 1.5.3-r6 and kernel 2.6.27-gentoo-r8. But one is x86 while the other is amd64 (also the backend).
>>
>>> What upgrades did you recently merge?
>> The xorg-server and the necessary input drivers. But so far reverting to xorg-server 1.3.0 did not yield any good results.
>>
>> I doubt this is mythtv. All of my searches show that the problem lies elsewhere but mythtv exposes it.
>>
>> The symptom to state more clearly is that after mythfrontend launches I see the image caching progress and then the screen only has the theme background. The Xorg log does not have any (EE) entries and running -v most on the frontend does not turn up anything except that the mythweather jobs don't start like they normally would.
>>
>
> Sounds like a themepainter issue to me. does mythfrontend -O
> Themepainter=qt show the text?
>
> Are you running an nvidia card? are you using nv or nvidia drivers?

I'm also having some odd symptoms that show up with mythtv, and they
sound a bit like this. However in my case, it's clear that it's all
really some sort of OpenGL problem, because glxgears gets about 1.0fps.
I know glxgears isn't really a benchmark, but it *is* a buglight, and
when hardware rendering becomes slower than software, something is
really wrong.

Only thing is, my problem shows up when booting to 2.6.29 - back to
2.6.28 and all is well. I haven't gotten around to trying 2.6.30 on
that system, yet.

Dale Pontius
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

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drescherjm at gmail

Jun 27, 2009, 8:02 PM

Post #9 of 59 (3444 views)
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Re: gentoo, latest mythtv - mythfrontend has no text [In reply to]

> I'm also having some odd symptoms that show up with mythtv, and they
> sound a bit like this. �However in my case, it's clear that it's all
> really some sort of OpenGL problem, because glxgears gets about 1.0fps.
> �I know glxgears isn't really a benchmark, but it *is* a buglight, and
> when hardware rendering becomes slower than software, something is
> really wrong.
>
> Only thing is, my problem shows up when booting to 2.6.29 - back to
> 2.6.28 and all is well. �I haven't gotten around to trying 2.6.30 on
> that system, yet.
>

You probably did not reinstall the proprietary video driver after the
kernel upgrade. This has to be done after every kernel install.

John
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DEPontius at edgehp

Jun 28, 2009, 4:00 AM

Post #10 of 59 (3419 views)
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Re: gentoo, latest mythtv - mythfrontend has no text [In reply to]

John Drescher wrote:
>> I'm also having some odd symptoms that show up with mythtv, and they
>> sound a bit like this. However in my case, it's clear that it's all
>> really some sort of OpenGL problem, because glxgears gets about 1.0fps.
>> I know glxgears isn't really a benchmark, but it *is* a buglight, and
>> when hardware rendering becomes slower than software, something is
>> really wrong.
>>
>> Only thing is, my problem shows up when booting to 2.6.29 - back to
>> 2.6.28 and all is well. I haven't gotten around to trying 2.6.30 on
>> that system, yet.
>>
>
> You probably did not reinstall the proprietary video driver after the
> kernel upgrade. This has to be done after every kernel install.

I did - I even had "direct rendering" happening, according to glxinfo.
Heck, if I hadn't, pure software would have rendered faster than 1.0fps
on glxgears.

Dale
>
> John
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

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sonofzev at iinet

Jun 28, 2009, 4:26 AM

Post #11 of 59 (3416 views)
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Re: gentoo, latest mythtv - mythfrontend has no text [In reply to]

On Sun, 2009-06-28 at 07:00 -0400, Dale Pontius wrote:
> John Drescher wrote:
> >> I'm also having some odd symptoms that show up with mythtv, and they
> >> sound a bit like this. However in my case, it's clear that it's all
> >> really some sort of OpenGL problem, because glxgears gets about 1.0fps.
> >> I know glxgears isn't really a benchmark, but it *is* a buglight, and
> >> when hardware rendering becomes slower than software, something is
> >> really wrong.
> >>
> >> Only thing is, my problem shows up when booting to 2.6.29 - back to
> >> 2.6.28 and all is well. I haven't gotten around to trying 2.6.30 on
> >> that system, yet.
> >>
> >
> > You probably did not reinstall the proprietary video driver after the
> > kernel upgrade. This has to be done after every kernel install.
>
> I did - I even had "direct rendering" happening, according to glxinfo.
> Heck, if I hadn't, pure software would have rendered faster than 1.0fps
> on glxgears.
>
> Dale
> >

Wow .. I definitely am not seeing anything like this.. I had been using
the official portage version, but am now using John Drescher's overlay
which has JYA's backports of the VDPAU driver and it works very
well....

Although my frontend is still on 2.6.28 and my backend is on 2.6.30...

> > John
> > _______________________________________________
> > mythtv-users mailing list
> > mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> > http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

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DEPontius at edgehp

Jun 28, 2009, 8:56 AM

Post #12 of 59 (3399 views)
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Re: gentoo, latest mythtv - mythfrontend has no text [In reply to]

allan wrote:
>
> On Sun, 2009-06-28 at 07:00 -0400, Dale Pontius wrote:
>> John Drescher wrote:
>>>> I'm also having some odd symptoms that show up with mythtv, and they
>>>> sound a bit like this. However in my case, it's clear that it's all
>>>> really some sort of OpenGL problem, because glxgears gets about 1.0fps.
>>>> I know glxgears isn't really a benchmark, but it *is* a buglight, and
>>>> when hardware rendering becomes slower than software, something is
>>>> really wrong.
>>>>
>>>> Only thing is, my problem shows up when booting to 2.6.29 - back to
>>>> 2.6.28 and all is well. I haven't gotten around to trying 2.6.30 on
>>>> that system, yet.
>>>>
>>> You probably did not reinstall the proprietary video driver after the
>>> kernel upgrade. This has to be done after every kernel install.
>> I did - I even had "direct rendering" happening, according to glxinfo.
>> Heck, if I hadn't, pure software would have rendered faster than 1.0fps
>> on glxgears.
>>
>> Dale
>
> Wow .. I definitely am not seeing anything like this.. I had been using
> the official portage version, but am now using John Drescher's overlay
> which has JYA's backports of the VDPAU driver and it works very
> well....
>
The problem first showed up on mythtv, on the frontend-only machine. My
backend is currently on 2.6.29 - but the frontend on it works also. I
have another frontend-only machine at 2.6.30, and it works OK. All 3
have nVidia, though the machine with difficulties has a 5700LE, and has
to run legacy drivers.

Dale
> Although my frontend is still on 2.6.28 and my backend is on 2.6.30...
>
>
>
>
>>> John
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mythtv-users mailing list
>>> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
>>> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>> _______________________________________________
>> mythtv-users mailing list
>> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
>> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

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erik at hovland

Jun 30, 2009, 11:46 AM

Post #13 of 59 (3329 views)
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Re: gentoo, latest mythtv - mythfrontend has no text [In reply to]

>> Are you running an nvidia card? are you using nv or nvidia drivers?
>
> I have a nvidia card in both computers. The same GeForce 6200. There
> is a slight version skew between the drivers. This is because of the
> different CPU architectures. But the drivers are both 180.x.

I now have the amd64 frontend working again. I am not sure what I did to
make it work. I did a lot:
1. Removed any and all (EE) items from the xorg.conf. Note that dri
still tries to load by default in xorg-server 1.5.3-r6. Even with no Load
entry in the xorg.conf. Doesn't seem to harm anything.
a. Had to comment out several font dirs since 1.5.x doesn't use them and
they are empty.
b. Had to comment out a few options
2. Did an 'emerge -vuDN world' after linting through and removing dri from
USE.
a. For some reason mytharchive requires that mjpegtools be pegged at
less then 1.9.0. But the latest 1.8.x ebuild can't seem to
build on my system.
It fails on the most basic of things (INT_MAX for example). I kludged
mytharchive to allow 1.9.0. I DON'T suggest this for other
people actively
using mytharchive.
b. This emerge did not pick up mythtv itself or qt 3.3.x.
3. Upgraded my kernel from 2.6.25 to 2.6.27 and then to 2.6.29-gentoo-r5.
I only checked the config for the necessary nvidia items. I also enabled
the new MTRR feature in .29.
a. Yes, I did do an 'emerge -v nvidia-drivers' w/ the correct /usr/src/linux
symlink in case you are wondering.
4. I did an 'emerge -vD =qt=3.3.8-r1 mythtv mytharchive mythvideo \
mythmusic mythweather'
5. Shortly there after I did a pkill mythfrontend. When init did the mingetty
again it worked.

I did do a pkill or reboot (in the case of the kernel) after every step. But I
swear I did the pkill after the emerge of qt et al and still got nothing. Then
I commented out mingetty in /etc/inittab and did a pkill again expecting to
get the console prompt. But when I went in and turned on my TV there
was myth.

If anyone has any opinion about what provided the actual fix please feel
free to speculate. Especially since I have not replicated this incantation on
my x86 frontend yet. I plan to do that this evening.

I know that this is karma for me not submitting any patches to trac in
a few months. I should start doing that and see if my luck improves.

E

--
Erik Hovland
erik [at] hovland
http://hovland.org/
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jarod at wilsonet

Jun 30, 2009, 11:52 AM

Post #14 of 59 (3330 views)
Permalink

Re: gentoo, latest mythtv - mythfrontend has no text [In reply to]

On Jun 30, 2009, at 2:46 PM, Erik Hovland wrote:

>>> Are you running an nvidia card? are you using nv or nvidia drivers?
>>
>> I have a nvidia card in both computers. The same GeForce 6200. There
>> is a slight version skew between the drivers. This is because of the
>> different CPU architectures. But the drivers are both 180.x.
>
> I now have the amd64 frontend working again. I am not sure what I
> did to
> make it work. I did a lot:
> 1. Removed any and all (EE) items from the xorg.conf. Note that dri
> still tries to load by default in xorg-server 1.5.3-r6. Even with
> no Load
> entry in the xorg.conf. Doesn't seem to harm anything.
> a. Had to comment out several font dirs since 1.5.x doesn't use
> them and
> they are empty.
> b. Had to comment out a few options
> 2. Did an 'emerge -vuDN world' after linting through and removing
> dri from
> USE.
> a. For some reason mytharchive requires that mjpegtools be pegged
> at
> less then 1.9.0. But the latest 1.8.x ebuild can't seem to
> build on my system.
> It fails on the most basic of things (INT_MAX for example). I
> kludged
> mytharchive to allow 1.9.0. I DON'T suggest this for other
> people actively
> using mytharchive.
> b. This emerge did not pick up mythtv itself or qt 3.3.x.
> 3. Upgraded my kernel from 2.6.25 to 2.6.27 and then to 2.6.29-
> gentoo-r5.
> I only checked the config for the necessary nvidia items. I also
> enabled
> the new MTRR feature in .29.
> a. Yes, I did do an 'emerge -v nvidia-drivers' w/ the correct /
> usr/src/linux
> symlink in case you are wondering.
> 4. I did an 'emerge -vD =qt=3.3.8-r1 mythtv mytharchive mythvideo \
> mythmusic mythweather'
> 5. Shortly there after I did a pkill mythfrontend. When init did the
> mingetty
> again it worked.
>
> I did do a pkill or reboot (in the case of the kernel) after every
> step. But I
> swear I did the pkill after the emerge of qt et al and still got
> nothing. Then
> I commented out mingetty in /etc/inittab and did a pkill again
> expecting to
> get the console prompt. But when I went in and turned on my TV there
> was myth.
>
> If anyone has any opinion about what provided the actual fix please
> feel
> free to speculate. Especially since I have not replicated this
> incantation on
> my x86 frontend yet. I plan to do that this evening.
>
> I know that this is karma for me not submitting any patches to trac in
> a few months. I should start doing that and see if my luck improves.

Just want to drop a quick thank you for reminding me why I don't EVER
need to try out gentoo again. ;p

--
Jarod Wilson
jarod [at] wilsonet

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erik at hovland

Jun 30, 2009, 1:17 PM

Post #15 of 59 (3318 views)
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Re: gentoo, latest mythtv - mythfrontend has no text [In reply to]

> Just want to drop a quick thank you for reminding me why I don't EVER need
> to try out gentoo again. ;p

Wuss =P

E

--
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erik [at] hovland
http://hovland.org/
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jarod at wilsonet

Jun 30, 2009, 1:32 PM

Post #16 of 59 (3319 views)
Permalink

Re: gentoo, latest mythtv - mythfrontend has no text [In reply to]

On Jun 30, 2009, at 4:17 PM, Erik Hovland wrote:

>> Just want to drop a quick thank you for reminding me why I don't
>> EVER need
>> to try out gentoo again. ;p
>
> Wuss =P

Dude, I think I still have scars. I was nuts enough to install Gentoo
on my old 500MHz G3 iBook at one point (from stage 1 of course, or why
bother?). The golden sombrero of pain: Gentoo, a slow processor, a
PowerPC w/o even altivec, and a laptop (whee, suspend/resume). Got it
all working reasonably well, then decided it just wasn't worth the
maintenance overhead to keep it up-to-date. Reinstalled Mac OS X and
gave it to my inlaws, iirc. :)

Fedora's rawhide tree is more than crunchy enough for me. (Post-F11
rawhide is actually surprisingly stable...)

--
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jarod [at] wilsonet

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bradallenfuller at gmail

Jun 30, 2009, 1:37 PM

Post #17 of 59 (3328 views)
Permalink

Re: gentoo, latest mythtv - mythfrontend has no text [In reply to]

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Jarod Wilson<jarod [at] wilsonet> wrote:
> On Jun 30, 2009, at 4:17 PM, Erik Hovland wrote:
>
>>> Just want to drop a quick thank you for reminding me why I don't EVER
>>> need
>>> to try out gentoo again. ;p
>>
>> Wuss =P
>
>
> Dude, I think I still have scars. I was nuts enough to install Gentoo on my
> old 500MHz G3 iBook at one point (from stage 1 of course, or why bother?).
> The golden sombrero of pain: Gentoo, a slow processor, a PowerPC w/o even
> altivec, and a laptop (whee, suspend/resume). Got it all working reasonably
> well, then decided it just wasn't worth the maintenance overhead to keep it
> up-to-date. Reinstalled Mac OS X and gave it to my inlaws, iirc. :)
>
> Fedora's rawhide tree is more than crunchy enough for me. (Post-F11 rawhide
> is actually surprisingly stable...)

I agree gentoo install (in the past) is a bit rough. Once you get it
going, emerge is MUCH better than packages. I've run several distros
(and still do) and gentoo is much easier to manage in the long run. I
always have dependency problems with RPM and the like.

Probably all distros are getting better and better. Hats off to
Ubuntu, but it's so fat that I can't use it in most situations. gentoo
as a backend server is much preferred for me.

enough about the distro wars!

--
Brad Fuller
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erik at hovland

Jun 30, 2009, 1:39 PM

Post #18 of 59 (3316 views)
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Re: gentoo, latest mythtv - mythfrontend has no text [In reply to]

> Fedora's rawhide tree is more than crunchy enough for me. (Post-F11 rawhide
> is actually surprisingly stable...)

This statement made me laugh so hard milk came out my nose! Rawhide,
stable Hoo-Ha!

E

--
Erik Hovland
erik [at] hovland
http://hovland.org/
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jarod at wilsonet

Jun 30, 2009, 1:47 PM

Post #19 of 59 (3314 views)
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Re: gentoo, latest mythtv - mythfrontend has no text [In reply to]

On Jun 30, 2009, at 4:39 PM, Erik Hovland wrote:

>> Fedora's rawhide tree is more than crunchy enough for me. (Post-F11
>> rawhide
>> is actually surprisingly stable...)
>
> This statement made me laugh so hard milk came out my nose! Rawhide,
> stable Hoo-Ha!

Well, that's why I said 'surprisingly stable', because yeah, it
usually ain't... :)

--
Jarod Wilson
jarod [at] wilsonet

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jarod at wilsonet

Jun 30, 2009, 1:50 PM

Post #20 of 59 (3316 views)
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Re: gentoo, latest mythtv - mythfrontend has no text [In reply to]

On Jun 30, 2009, at 4:37 PM, Brad Fuller wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Jarod Wilson<jarod [at] wilsonet>
> wrote:
>> On Jun 30, 2009, at 4:17 PM, Erik Hovland wrote:
>>
>>>> Just want to drop a quick thank you for reminding me why I don't
>>>> EVER
>>>> need
>>>> to try out gentoo again. ;p
>>>
>>> Wuss =P
>>
>>
>> Dude, I think I still have scars. I was nuts enough to install
>> Gentoo on my
>> old 500MHz G3 iBook at one point (from stage 1 of course, or why
>> bother?).
>> The golden sombrero of pain: Gentoo, a slow processor, a PowerPC w/
>> o even
>> altivec, and a laptop (whee, suspend/resume). Got it all working
>> reasonably
>> well, then decided it just wasn't worth the maintenance overhead to
>> keep it
>> up-to-date. Reinstalled Mac OS X and gave it to my inlaws, iirc. :)
>>
>> Fedora's rawhide tree is more than crunchy enough for me. (Post-F11
>> rawhide
>> is actually surprisingly stable...)
>
> I agree gentoo install (in the past) is a bit rough. Once you get it
> going, emerge is MUCH better than packages.

Okay, now *I* just snorted milk out my nose... :)

> I've run several distros
> (and still do) and gentoo is much easier to manage in the long run. I
> always have dependency problems with RPM and the like.

Then, to quote davej: "Dude, ur doing it wrong". :)

> Probably all distros are getting better and better.

Generally speaking, yup.

> Hats off to
> Ubuntu, but it's so fat that I can't use it in most situations.

No comment... :)

> gentoo
> as a backend server is much preferred for me.
>
> enough about the distro wars!

Hey, its all in good fun. Its Friday for me, I'm going on vacation
tomorrow... :)

--
Jarod Wilson
jarod [at] wilsonet

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digitalaudiorock at gmail

Jun 30, 2009, 2:55 PM

Post #21 of 59 (3304 views)
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Re: gentoo, latest mythtv - mythfrontend has no text [In reply to]

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Brad Fuller<bradallenfuller [at] gmail> wrote:
>
> I agree gentoo install (in the past) is a bit rough. Once you get it
> going, emerge is MUCH better than packages. I've run several distros
> (and still do) and gentoo is much easier to manage in the long run. I
> always have dependency problems with RPM and the like.
>

I could't agree more. I've used nothing but Gentoo for _all_ my linux
machines...mythtv, home, work etc for years. I find the compiled
packages to be generally more stable than any binary distro I've used.
Gentoo is great as long as you:

a) Pay attention to any major upgrade guides, which are now easy to
find out about via 'eselect news' messages available after you sync.

b) Always read elogs after upgrades. I like using this in my make.conf:

PORTAGE_ELOG_CLASSES="warn error log"
PORTAGE_ELOG_SYSTEM=save_summary

They will alert you to potential revdep-rebuilds etc that may be
needed saving serious headaches.

c) Always use etc-update (or one of the others) to check/modify config
files after upgrading.

I couldn't live with binary dependency traps after using Gentoo. I've
never had a problem with mtyhtv that turned out to be Gentoo related.
They've always been from issues with some upstream code, nVidia
drivers, etc. I just got done switching to the 2.6.28 kernel and
recompiling all my machines with the gcc 4.3.2 compiler without a
hitch.

Yea...I don't want to start distro wars either, but I hate hearing
Gentoo badmouthed, especially when it truly is great for building a
really lean myth front/backend. But if used incorrectly, Gentoo isn't
good for anything.

Tom
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gull at gull

Jun 30, 2009, 2:59 PM

Post #22 of 59 (3300 views)
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Re: gentoo, latest mythtv - mythfrontend has no text [In reply to]

Jarod Wilson wrote:
>> Hats off to
>> Ubuntu, but it's so fat that I can't use it in most situations.
>
> No comment... :)

I do find it a little weird that someone who's willing to install
hundreds of megabytes of source code, development tools, etc., and then
wait for all of it to install would then decry Ubuntu as "too fat." ;)
I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

Personally, I liked Gentoo but the downtime required for updating, due
to having to wait for the updates to compile, was a bit too aggravating.
Now I run Mythbuntu.

I agree that emerge is pretty cool, in the same way the FreeBSD Ports
Tree is cool.

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digitalaudiorock at gmail

Jun 30, 2009, 3:01 PM

Post #23 of 59 (3313 views)
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Re: gentoo, latest mythtv - mythfrontend has no text [In reply to]

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 5:55 PM, Tom Dexter<digitalaudiorock [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Brad Fuller<bradallenfuller [at] gmail> wrote:
>>
>> I agree gentoo install (in the past) is a bit rough. Once you get it
>> going, emerge is MUCH better than packages. I've run several distros
>> (and still do) and gentoo is much easier to manage in the long run. I
>> always have dependency problems with RPM and the like.
>>
>
> I could't agree more. �I've used nothing but Gentoo for _all_ my linux
> machines...mythtv, home, work etc for years. �I find the compiled
> packages to be generally more stable than any binary distro I've used.
> �Gentoo is great as long as you:
>
> a) Pay attention to any major upgrade guides, which are now easy to
> find out about via 'eselect news' messages available after you sync.
>
> b) Always read elogs after upgrades. �I like using this in my make.conf:
>
> PORTAGE_ELOG_CLASSES="warn error log"
> PORTAGE_ELOG_SYSTEM=save_summary
>
> They will alert you to potential revdep-rebuilds etc that may be
> needed saving serious headaches.
>
> c) Always use etc-update (or one of the others) to check/modify config
> files after upgrading.
>
> I couldn't live with binary dependency traps after using Gentoo. �I've
> never had a problem with mtyhtv that turned out to be Gentoo related.
> They've always been from issues with some upstream code, nVidia
> drivers, etc. �I just got done switching to the 2.6.28 kernel and
> recompiling all my machines with the gcc 4.3.2 compiler without a
> hitch.
>
> Yea...I don't want to start distro wars either, but I hate hearing
> Gentoo badmouthed, especially when it truly is great for building a
> really lean myth front/backend. �But if used incorrectly, Gentoo isn't
> good for anything.
>
> Tom
>

I almost forgot:

d) If you want a stable system, don't use ~arch packages unless you
have to. It's great to help the Gentoo community debug unstable
packages, but don't run ~arch on everything and then say Gentoo is
unstable ;)...that seems to be a common practice for some reason.

Tom
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bradallenfuller at gmail

Jun 30, 2009, 3:03 PM

Post #24 of 59 (3304 views)
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Re: gentoo, latest mythtv - mythfrontend has no text [In reply to]

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:59 PM, David Brodbeck<gull [at] gull> wrote:
> Jarod Wilson wrote:
>>>
>>> Hats off to
>>> Ubuntu, but it's so fat that I can't use it in most situations.
>>
>> No comment... :)
>
> I do find it a little weird that someone who's willing to install hundreds
> of megabytes of source code, development tools, etc., and then wait for all
> of it to install would then decry Ubuntu as "too fat." ;) I guess it's all a
> matter of perspective.

perhaps. But source code is very small. So, I don't think this is an
issue with space, at all.

--
Brad Fuller
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digitalaudiorock at gmail

Jun 30, 2009, 3:12 PM

Post #25 of 59 (3311 views)
Permalink

Re: gentoo, latest mythtv - mythfrontend has no text [In reply to]

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 5:59 PM, David Brodbeck<gull [at] gull> wrote:
> Jarod Wilson wrote:
>>>
>>> Hats off to
>>> Ubuntu, but it's so fat that I can't use it in most situations.
>>
>> No comment... :)
>
> I do find it a little weird that someone who's willing to install hundreds
> of megabytes of source code, development tools, etc., and then wait for all
> of it to install would then decry Ubuntu as "too fat." ;) I guess it's all a
> matter of perspective.
>
> Personally, I liked Gentoo but the downtime required for updating, due to
> having to wait for the updates to compile, was a bit too aggravating. �Now I
> run Mythbuntu.
>
> I agree that emerge is pretty cool, in the same way the FreeBSD Ports Tree
> is cool.
>

To me, a lean system means: nothing in the kernel I don't want, no
services running that I don't want, no library dependencies that I
don't want or need. Perhaps that's why I've never had an issue with
having a lowly 526 MB of ram on both my front and backend, in spite of
the fact that everyone says that's nowhere near enough.

If I actually cared about the OS disk usage I could delete downloaded
source, but my entire / partition (even with the mysql databases)
generally has no more than about 6 GB used.

And does anyone running ubuntu actually get away without installed
development tools? I was never able to even when I used binary
distros.

Tom
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