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ATSC tuner recommendation?

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stuart at xnet

Mar 30, 2009, 7:04 AM

Post #1 of 38 (2575 views)
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ATSC tuner recommendation?

Hi...

I've searched and haven't see a post w/the words "tuner recommendation"
on this list since April 10th of last year.

In light of not being able to resurrecting my ATSC Kworld 120 tuner card
(it stopped working after a Debian update), I've started the search for
a replacement. I don't want to get into another "hard to create a full
feature driver" situation. What I find that usually works in the open
source community is to get what everyone else has.

So what does everyone else have WRT ATSC tuner cards?

I have been siding w/getting an HDHomerun. Setting up hardware
independent of any computer protects me from obsolescence. All my tuner
cards are of the older PCI type and I'm thinking it's only a matter of
time until all that is available are the new PCI interfaces.

...thanks for your suggestions.

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beww at beww

Mar 30, 2009, 7:17 AM

Post #2 of 38 (2502 views)
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Re: ATSC tuner recommendation? [In reply to]

On Monday 30 March 2009 08:04:21 stuart wrote:
> Hi...
>
> I've searched and haven't see a post w/the words "tuner recommendation"
> on this list since April 10th of last year.
>
> In light of not being able to resurrecting my ATSC Kworld 120 tuner card
> (it stopped working after a Debian update), I've started the search for
> a replacement. I don't want to get into another "hard to create a full
> feature driver" situation. What I find that usually works in the open
> source community is to get what everyone else has.
>
> So what does everyone else have WRT ATSC tuner cards?
>
> I have been siding w/getting an HDHomerun. Setting up hardware
> independent of any computer protects me from obsolescence. All my tuner
> cards are of the older PCI type and I'm thinking it's only a matter of
> time until all that is available are the new PCI interfaces.
>
> ...thanks for your suggestions.

My vote is the HDHR, as you are suggesting.

It is just great, two tuners and you can locate it anywhere on yout network.

Only caveat would be if for some reason your network doesn't permit it (very
heavily loaded etc.). I would also not suggest trying to use an HDHR if the
connection to the B/E is wireless.

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tylernt at gmail

Mar 30, 2009, 7:18 AM

Post #3 of 38 (2499 views)
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Re: ATSC tuner recommendation? [In reply to]

I've been quite happy with my pcHDTV 5500. Driver was already in the
kernel. But as you note, in a year or two it may be hard to get a new
mobo with PCI slots, which would be an argument for USB or other
external devices like the HDHR.
___
/yler
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beww at beww

Mar 30, 2009, 7:28 AM

Post #4 of 38 (2510 views)
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Re: ATSC tuner recommendation? [In reply to]

On Monday 30 March 2009 08:18:37 Tyler T wrote:
> I've been quite happy with my pcHDTV 5500. Driver was already in the
> kernel. But as you note, in a year or two it may be hard to get a new
> mobo with PCI slots, which would be an argument for USB or other
> external devices like the HDHR.

It's already getting hard to find mobos with more than 3 PCI slots, they have
to get the room for the PCI-Express X1 and X16 slots from somewhere.

At least I finally found a use for the X1 slots, a serial card, since those
ports are getting scarcer on motherboards as well.

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travis at tabbal

Mar 30, 2009, 7:49 AM

Post #5 of 38 (2508 views)
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Re: ATSC tuner recommendation? [In reply to]

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 8:04 AM, stuart <stuart [at] xnet> wrote:

>
> I have been siding w/getting an HDHomerun. Setting up hardware independent
> of any computer protects me from obsolescence. All my tuner cards are of
> the older PCI type and I'm thinking it's only a matter of time until all
> that is available are the new PCI interfaces.

I've been using an HDHR for a couple years now. It's been working great. I
love that it can be put anywhere on the network without worrying about slots
or driver compatibility. My network hasn't seemed to have a problem with it,
the peak is supposed to be about 40mb/s, so it's not much for a gigabit LAN.
If it's a problem though, you could add an ethernet card I suppose and run
them off of a separate LAN. Or even a USB ethernet device if you have no
available slots.

I'm also using it for the IR receiver on my main FE/BE combo box. When I
seperate those I'll probably switch to a USB IR reciever and move the HDHR
to the server area. My kid is way too fascinated by the lights on the front
of the HDHR. :)

I have been getting some pixelation issues lately, but I think that's more
related to the machine and/or Myth. I modified the backend to remove the
sync calls and increase the buffer size and it's helped a ton. It would be
really nice if .22 had those as config options for the backend. Last night I
moved the OS and database to a seperate drive to see if that helps as well.
I'm a little concerned as the new drive is slower, 5400RPM from an old TiVo,
but it was handy. If it helps I'll think about moving to a faster drive. It
just doesn't make sense to buy a new drive for the OS though, as it only
needs about 10G and it's hard to find cheap small drives. No point in
wasting a big disk on the OS. Perhaps I'll get another 8G USB flash stick.
That's working very well on the bedroom FE machine.

beww at beww

Mar 30, 2009, 8:06 AM

Post #6 of 38 (2512 views)
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Re: ATSC tuner recommendation? [In reply to]

On Monday 30 March 2009 08:49:03 Travis Tabbal wrote:
> It just doesn't make sense to buy a new drive for the OS though, as
> it only needs about 10G and it's hard to find cheap small drives. No point
> in wasting a big disk on the OS. Perhaps I'll get another 8G USB flash
> stick. That's working very well on the bedroom FE machine.

I've seen 40GB refurbed WD drives for $16.99. Also, the compact flash to SATA
adapters with a microdrive are possible, but the total cost comes close to
those 40GB drives.

The microdrives are faster than flash, and don't have the potential burnout
problems, but they are not as fast as a standard 3.5" HDD. You save power and
case room, but not really any money.

I'd just network boot, but I like to run the DB on the same drive as the OS,
which I suspect is what most folks do. I'd rather not slow down the DB.

Never thought I'd see 40GB as the smallest drive I can buy.

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travis at tabbal

Mar 30, 2009, 8:14 AM

Post #7 of 38 (2503 views)
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Re: ATSC tuner recommendation? [In reply to]

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Brian Wood <beww [at] beww> wrote:

>
> I'd just network boot, but I like to run the DB on the same drive as the
> OS,
> which I suspect is what most folks do. I'd rather not slow down the DB.
>
> Never thought I'd see 40GB as the smallest drive I can buy.
>

I hear you. I tried network booting. While I can get it to work fine, I
couldn't get the NVidia drivers to reliably work. They would work when I
installed them, but after a reboot I was back to the fail-safe X. I finally
got sick of messing with it and switched to the USB flash stick. It's not as
fast as a modern HD, but it keeps up well compared to the 5400RPM drive I
just installed. And they cost less than $20. I've only been running it for
about 6 months, but I haven't seen any issues from wear. It only needs to be
updated once in a while and I have it mounted with noatime. The logs
probably hit the flash harder than anything else on the system, and I could
use a remote syslogd I guess.

kkuphal at gmail

Mar 30, 2009, 8:44 AM

Post #8 of 38 (2497 views)
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Re: ATSC tuner recommendation? [In reply to]

2009/3/30 Travis Tabbal <travis [at] tabbal>

>
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Brian Wood <beww [at] beww> wrote:
>
>>
>> I'd just network boot, but I like to run the DB on the same drive as the
>> OS,
>> which I suspect is what most folks do. I'd rather not slow down the DB.
>>
>> Never thought I'd see 40GB as the smallest drive I can buy.
>>
>
>
> I hear you. I tried network booting. While I can get it to work fine, I
> couldn't get the NVidia drivers to reliably work. They would work when I
> installed them, but after a reboot I was back to the fail-safe X. I finally
> got sick of messing with it and switched to the USB flash stick. It's not as
> fast as a modern HD, but it keeps up well compared to the 5400RPM drive I
> just installed. And they cost less than $20. I've only been running it for
> about 6 months, but I haven't seen any issues from wear. It only needs to be
> updated once in a while and I have it mounted with noatime. The logs
> probably hit the flash harder than anything else on the system, and I could
> use a remote syslogd I guess.
>

For me it ends up with "who cares"? At $20 a pop, if it lasts for 1, 2 or 3
years before wear destroys it, I've gotten more than my money's worth. Just
"dd" the flash card to an image once in a while to keep a good backup of it
and when it dies, "dd" the image back to a new drive.

Kevin

newbury at mandamus

Mar 30, 2009, 10:08 AM

Post #9 of 38 (2506 views)
Permalink

Re: ATSC tuner recommendation? [In reply to]

> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 8:04 AM, stuart <stuart [at] xnet> wrote:
>
>> I have been siding w/getting an HDHomerun. Setting up hardware independent
>> of any computer protects me from obsolescence. All my tuner cards are of
>> the older PCI type and I'm thinking it's only a matter of time until all
>> that is available are the new PCI interfaces.
>

I'll second (or third) the recommendation of the HDHR. Mine has worked
quite nicely with only the odd hiccup, mainly from router connection
problems.

Apropos the fact that the unit is external to the BE, it may also solve
a different problem which has been mentioned here.

I have a large external antenna pointed at stations 40 miles away. The
nearby stations are at 86 degrees to that line and do not come in at all
repeatably. And combining antenna feeds into one tuner box is basically
an impossible task.

I have ordered another (small) antenna and will be ordering another
hdhr, to handle the nearby stations separately. This will only involve
splitting my OTA lineups to segregate the antenna/tuner pairings.

Something worth considering if your locale has widespread antenna
requirements.

Geoff

--
Please let me know if anything I say offends you.
I may wish to offend you again in the future.

Tux says: "Be regular. Eat cron flakes."
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drescherjm at gmail

Mar 30, 2009, 10:15 AM

Post #10 of 38 (2501 views)
Permalink

Re: ATSC tuner recommendation? [In reply to]

> I've seen 40GB refurbed WD drives for $16.99. Also, the compact flash to SATA
> adapters with a microdrive are possible, but the total cost comes close to
> those 40GB drives.
>
> The microdrives are faster than flash, and don't have the potential burnout
> problems, but they are not as fast as a standard 3.5" HDD. You save power and
> case room, but not really any money.
>
I have had microdrives die. Some of these small drives (less than 4GB)
are much slower than flash and less reliable.

John
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alex.l.williamson at gmail

Mar 30, 2009, 10:26 AM

Post #11 of 38 (2478 views)
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Re: ATSC tuner recommendation? [In reply to]

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:08 AM, R. G. Newbury <newbury [at] mandamus> wrote:
>> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 8:04 AM, stuart <stuart [at] xnet> wrote:
>>
>>> I have been siding w/getting an HDHomerun. �Setting up hardware
>>> independent
>>> of any computer protects me from obsolescence. �All my tuner cards are of
>>> the older PCI type and I'm thinking it's only a matter of time until all
>>> that is available are the new PCI interfaces.
>>
>
> I'll second (or third) the recommendation of the HDHR. Mine has worked quite
> nicely with only the odd hiccup, mainly from router connection problems.

Another vote for hdhr, mine has worked flawlessly and I love that it's
independent of my mythtv hardware. I only wish the hdpvr used the
same model and had a network port instead of USB.

Alex
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steve at priorityelectronics

Mar 30, 2009, 12:15 PM

Post #12 of 38 (2484 views)
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Re: ATSC tuner recommendation? [In reply to]

>
>Another vote for hdhr, mine has worked flawlessly and I love that it's
>independent of my mythtv hardware. I only wish the hdpvr used the
>same model and had a network port instead of USB.
>

To save you some money, I recommend the ATI HDTV Wonder. I found mine on
ebay for around $20 (there are a ton on the site). It was very easy to
install and get going with mythtv and ubuntu. Also, it works wonderfully. I
tried it with QAM and with OTA and both worked great, so I use it with OTA
and use it all the time.

Very cheap and reliable. Internal PCI slot is used, so that kind of stinks,
but when you consider you're spending $20 vs $150 for a HD Homerun, to me
that was a no brainer. (I know the HD Home Run has two tuners, but still.)

-Anyways, that's my two cents
-Steve

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drescherjm at gmail

Mar 30, 2009, 12:22 PM

Post #13 of 38 (2463 views)
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Re: ATSC tuner recommendation? [In reply to]

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:04 AM, stuart <stuart [at] xnet> wrote:
>
> Hi...
>
> I've searched and haven't see a post w/the words "tuner recommendation" on
> this list since April 10th of last year.
>
> In light of not being able to resurrecting my ATSC Kworld 120 tuner card (it
> stopped working after a Debian update), I've started the search for a
> replacement. �I don't want to get into another "hard to create a full
> feature driver" situation. �What I find that usually works in the open
> source community is to get what everyone else has.
>

I use a kworld 115 and it works great for me. I am however using the
v4l-dvb drivers and compiling them from source with gentoo so this is
completly independent of the kernel I use.

John
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drescherjm at gmail

Mar 30, 2009, 12:23 PM

Post #14 of 38 (2458 views)
Permalink

Re: ATSC tuner recommendation? [In reply to]

> I use a kworld 115 and it works great for me. I am however using the
> v4l-dvb drivers and compiling them from source with gentoo so this is
> completly independent of the kernel I use.
>
http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_Obtain%2C_Build_and_Install_V4L-DVB_Device_Drivers

John
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steve at priorityelectronics

Mar 30, 2009, 12:40 PM

Post #15 of 38 (2461 views)
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Re: ATSC tuner recommendation? [In reply to]

>
>> I use a kworld 115 and it works great for me. I am however using the
>> v4l-dvb drivers and compiling them from source with gentoo so this is
>> completly independent of the kernel I use.
>>
>http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_Obtain%2C_Build_and_Install_V4L-DV
B_Device_Drivers
>
>John

Just out of curiosity, why go with a $75 tuner when he can get an equally
good one for $20? Just wondering if I'm missing anything here. Does the
kworld one doe anything different or better than the ATI HD Wonder? I've
seen a lot of people recommend $75 pci hdtv tuners and have been wondering
this for a while.

-Thanks
-Steve

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drescherjm at gmail

Mar 30, 2009, 12:45 PM

Post #16 of 38 (2455 views)
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Re: ATSC tuner recommendation? [In reply to]

> Just out of curiosity, why go with a $75 tuner when he can get an equally
> good one for $20? Just wondering if I'm missing anything here. Does the
> kworld one doe anything different or better than the ATI HD Wonder? I've
> seen a lot of people recommend $75 pci hdtv tuners and have been wondering
> this for a while.
>

I think I paid around $50 for it over a year ago.

John
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steve at priorityelectronics

Mar 30, 2009, 12:47 PM

Post #17 of 38 (2458 views)
Permalink

Re: ATSC tuner recommendation? [In reply to]

>
>> Just out of curiosity, why go with a $75 tuner when he can
>get an equally
>> good one for $20? Just wondering if I'm missing anything
>here. Does the
>> kworld one doe anything different or better than the ATI HD
>Wonder? I've
>> seen a lot of people recommend $75 pci hdtv tuners and have
>been wondering
>> this for a while.
>>
>
>I think I paid around $50 for it over a year ago.
>
>John

Well, that's not too bad.
-Steve

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drescherjm at gmail

Mar 30, 2009, 12:49 PM

Post #18 of 38 (2465 views)
Permalink

Re: ATSC tuner recommendation? [In reply to]

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 3:45 PM, John Drescher <drescherjm [at] gmail> wrote:
>> Just out of curiosity, why go with a $75 tuner when he can get an equally
>> good one for $20? Just wondering if I'm missing anything here. Does the
>> kworld one doe anything different or better than the ATI HD Wonder? I've
>> seen a lot of people recommend $75 pci hdtv tuners and have been wondering
>> this for a while.
>>
>
> I think I paid around $50 for it over a year ago.
>
BTW, I am not really recommending this. I actually had to manually
extract and use the firmware from the cd that comes with this to
activate the device on in linux. Once it is activated replacing the
firmware from v4l-dvb works fine. Rebooting and powering down the
machine and it still works. Move it to a new machine and I need to
apply the cd firmware again..

John
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james at ultratans

Mar 30, 2009, 12:53 PM

Post #19 of 38 (2460 views)
Permalink

Re: ATSC tuner recommendation? [In reply to]

Steve Peters - Priority Electronics wrote:
>>> Just out of curiosity, why go with a $75 tuner when he can
>>>
>> get an equally
>>
>>> good one for $20? Just wondering if I'm missing anything
>>>
>> here. Does the
>>
>>> kworld one doe anything different or better than the ATI HD
>>>
>> Wonder? I've
>>
>>> seen a lot of people recommend $75 pci hdtv tuners and have
>>>
>> been wondering
>>
>>> this for a while.
>>>
>>>
>> I think I paid around $50 for it over a year ago.
>>
>> John
>>
>
>
> Well, that's not too bad.
> -Steve
>
>
>
I found the Pinnacle PCTV 800i PCI QAM/ATSC (and software analog) tuner
on sale at woot.com for $25. I picked up one and then later two more.
They have performed very well for me. I have my cable split 8 ways upon
entering my house and the tuners handle that pretty well. I do have a
few dropouts and such, but they go away if I run the line straight into
a single tuner. I have been quite happy with them.

Cheers,
James
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finlay at moeraki

Mar 30, 2009, 12:59 PM

Post #20 of 38 (2464 views)
Permalink

Re: ATSC tuner recommendation? [In reply to]

stuart wrote:
>
> Hi...
>
> I've searched and haven't see a post w/the words "tuner
> recommendation" on this list since April 10th of last year.
>
> In light of not being able to resurrecting my ATSC Kworld 120 tuner
> card (it stopped working after a Debian update), I've started the
> search for a replacement. I don't want to get into another "hard to
> create a full feature driver" situation. What I find that usually
> works in the open source community is to get what everyone else has.
>
> So what does everyone else have WRT ATSC tuner cards?
>
> I have been siding w/getting an HDHomerun. Setting up hardware
> independent of any computer protects me from obsolescence. All my
> tuner cards are of the older PCI type and I'm thinking it's only a
> matter of time until all that is available are the new PCI interfaces.
>
I recommend the HDHR and chiefvalue.com has a good price on them now
with a the coupon code and $10 shipping:

http://www.chiefvalue.com/product-_-productdetails.cv_-_item--CE00154866010060

John
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beww at beww

Mar 30, 2009, 1:12 PM

Post #21 of 38 (2464 views)
Permalink

Re: ATSC tuner recommendation? [In reply to]

On Monday 30 March 2009 13:40:18 Steve Peters - Priority Electronics wrote:
> >> I use a kworld 115 and it works great for me. I am however using the
> >> v4l-dvb drivers and compiling them from source with gentoo so this is
> >> completly independent of the kernel I use.
> >
> >http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_Obtain%2C_Build_and_Install_V4L-D
> >V
>
> B_Device_Drivers
>
> >John
>
> Just out of curiosity, why go with a $75 tuner when he can get an equally
> good one for $20? Just wondering if I'm missing anything here. Does the
> kworld one doe anything different or better than the ATI HD Wonder? I've
> seen a lot of people recommend $75 pci hdtv tuners and have been wondering
> this for a while.

It's certainly true you can get tuner cards for $20 on EBay and the like.

But buying a brand-new unit, with a warranty, from a well-known vendor will
cost more, of course.

There is always a risk involved with used gear, and also with EBay deals, so I
would prefer to trade a little peace of mind for a few dollars extra.

It all depends on what you feel the potential hassle of a "deal" might be
worth, vs. how much you save.

The HDHR is the best technical solution, maybe not the best financial answer
for some people.

If in the future you wind up with a mobo that won't accomodate the PCI tuner
you got a "deal" on, then the deal doesn't look so good anymore. A
network-connected unit like the HDHR is proably going to be more obsolescence
proof.

The OP asked for opinions, which is what he got. The cost factor is something
he is going to have to evaluate in the light of his own financial position.

--
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mistyp at thekorn

Mar 30, 2009, 1:13 PM

Post #22 of 38 (2459 views)
Permalink

Re: ATSC tuner recommendation? [In reply to]

stuart wrote:
> Hi...
>
> I've searched and haven't see a post w/the words "tuner
> recommendation" on this list since April 10th of last year.

I don't buy tuners. I buy IR detectors, blasters, and remotes and the tv
tuners just come along for free. :)

(I'm running hauppage 1250s and 1800s, happy with both! Though the 1800
doesn't make much sense now that analog is going away.)

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gordonthree at gmail

Mar 30, 2009, 1:15 PM

Post #23 of 38 (2451 views)
Permalink

Re: ATSC tuner recommendation? [In reply to]

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 3:53 PM, James Crow <james [at] ultratans> wrote:
> I found the Pinnacle PCTV 800i PCI QAM/ATSC (and software analog) �tuner on
> sale at woot.com for $25. I picked up one and then later two more. They have

I'll enter another vote for the PCTV 800i ... Although it requires a
little more modern kernel, it works "out of the box" with up to date
distros (previously worked under ubuntu 8.04 and now mythdora 10)

One drawback, and I'm not sure if it's a pinnacle problem or a Charter
issue, but it takes forever to tune into Clear-QAM channels. I had to
set my tuning delay to 15000 msec in mythtv-setup for it to find and
successfully tune to channels.

Once they are tuned it, I have no problems, no pixelation. It also
multi-records just fine. I'm often recording two separate programs
off subchannels at once. Charter stacks NBC and ABC onto one qam
channel and FOX and CBS onto another. When I see this card on Woot
again, I'll grab another el-cheapo and be all set for HD recordings.

-Gordon
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mikep at randomtraveller

Mar 30, 2009, 1:22 PM

Post #24 of 38 (2459 views)
Permalink

Re: ATSC tuner recommendation? [In reply to]

Misty P wrote:
>
> (I'm running hauppage 1250s and 1800s, happy with both! Though the 1800
> doesn't make much sense now that analog is going away.)
>
The 1800 has an S-video input, no? Keep it in your box until you need input from
an STB or something like that. There are guys on this list who can no longer buy
PVR-150s so they can connect the STB to the S-Video input. Hang on to it.

--

Mike Perkins

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stuart at xnet

Mar 30, 2009, 11:17 PM

Post #25 of 38 (2403 views)
Permalink

Re: ATSC tuner recommendation? [In reply to]

stuart wrote:
>
> Hi...
>
> I've searched and haven't see a post w/the words "tuner recommendation"
> on this list since April 10th of last year.

Wow! Thanks for all the great feed back!

To sum things up:
-The HDHomerun (aka HDHR) is by far the most liked and costs about $160.
However it was pointed out that chiefvalue.com has it for about $130
after applying their coupon. Add about $10 for shipping. That beats
Amazon.com's $142 price even if you subscribe to amazon prime for their
free shipping.
-Also mentioned were the ATI HDTV Wonder (On ebay for about $20?? Which
model? Most ATI HDTV Wonder cards are way over that, even on ebay), the
Pinnacle PCTV 800i (On woot.com for about $25 (Wait a minute, doesn't
woot.com only sell 1 item per day?)), the Happauge 1250 (I found it at
amazon.com for about $57.) and the Kworld 115 (Which, I believe, is
already a end of life (i.e. not available)).

-It's probably worth noting that while the older Kworld 110 and 115
appear to be working for people, the newer Kworld 120 is a far different
animal. Some people have it working, but I have had nothing but
problems lately.

...thanks all

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