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OT: FCC adopts 'plug and play' cable for TVs

 

 

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caputo at qedinfo

Sep 11, 2003, 5:52 AM

Post #1 of 6 (2643 views)
Permalink
OT: FCC adopts 'plug and play' cable for TVs

Sorry if this is slightly off-topic, but I'd imagine a lot of people on this
list would be interested. Looks like the FCC has approved new rules for
standardization of digital cable. Under the new rules, you wouldn't need a
set-top box to decode your digital cable signal; just a decrypt card from
your provider that would plug in to some kind of reader/socket (I'd guess CF
or PCMCIA or the like) in your TV. Presumably the same would hold true for
PC tv-tuner cards. The current rules only cover the broadcast content;
interactive services (EPG, etc) from your provider would still require a
STB, though the FCC is looking at ways to standardize that, too.

http://msnbc-cnet.com.com/2100-1041_3-5074425.html?part=msnbc-cnet&tag=alert
&form=feed&subj=cnetnews

-JAC

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linux at keithandjill

Sep 11, 2003, 12:44 PM

Post #2 of 6 (2528 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: FCC adopts 'plug and play' cable for TVs [In reply to]

Look for DMCA lawsuits against the first person who reverse-engineers the encryption cards to
allow Linux boxes access to content. Just like DeCSS and DVDs.

I originally thought (and this was reinforced by the slant of most articles I read), that the cable
companies were pushing for this legislation. The reverse is true: the FCC is forcing the cable
companies to produce and adhere to a standard that would encourage people to buy digital
televisions. Look for cable companies to not do this quite right, and still cause those of us who
aren't lap dogs to the cable companies a considerable amount of grief.

Here's an example of my point :
I currently get analog cable with 70ish channels. I get 6 HD stations over the air (NBC, ABC, CBS,
PBS, UPN, Fox) with my TV's built in HD decoder. I'm paying <$40/month for cable.

To get HD channels on my cable, I would pay $60/month, and would get a single network (CBS, I
think), discovery and one other (might be HDNet). And I would need a digital HD cable box ($500)
from Motorola. 2 premium movie channels have HD versions, but I don't subscibe to those.

Sorry for the rant, but someone mentioned cable and I've been itching to jump on the soapbox
lately. It's just so painful to get what you want from cable. Once someone figures out how to
combine the pcHDTV and PVR-250 in a single MythTV box, I'll have my 6 HD channels and my
analog cable all in one place. Ah, mythical convergence, indeed!

Keith C

Quoting Joseph Caputo <caputo [at] qedinfo>:

> Sorry if this is slightly off-topic, but I'd imagine a lot of people on
> this
> list would be interested. Looks like the FCC has approved new rules
> for
> standardization of digital cable. Under the new rules, you wouldn't
> need a
> set-top box to decode your digital cable signal; just a decrypt card
> from
> your provider that would plug in to some kind of reader/socket (I'd
> guess CF
> or PCMCIA or the like) in your TV. Presumably the same would hold true
> for
> PC tv-tuner cards. The current rules only cover the broadcast
> content;
> interactive services (EPG, etc) from your provider would still require
> a
> STB, though the FCC is looking at ways to standardize that, too.
>
> http://msnbc-cnet.com.com/2100-1041_3-5074425.html?part=msnbc-cnet&tag=alert
> &form=feed&subj=cnetnews
>
> -JAC
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
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jcaputo1 at comcast

Sep 11, 2003, 1:21 PM

Post #3 of 6 (2520 views)
Permalink
RE: OT: FCC adopts 'plug and play' cable for TVs [In reply to]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mythtv-users-bounces [at] mythtv
> [mailto:mythtv-users-bounces [at] mythtv]On Behalf Of
> linux [at] keithandjill
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 3:45 PM
> To: Discussion about mythtv
> Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] OT: FCC adopts 'plug and play' cable for TVs
>
>
> Look for DMCA lawsuits against the first person who
> reverse-engineers the encryption cards to
> allow Linux boxes access to content. Just like DeCSS and DVDs.

Not necessarily; it really wouldn't require any reverse engineering. If TV
manufacturers can use the technology, then so can TV-tuner card
manufacturers. All it requires is for somebody like Hauppauge to come to
market with a tuner card that has a socket for the 'decryption card' from
your cable provider. You'd still need to *get* the card from your cable
provider; you'd just be plugging it into a PCI adapter instead of your TV.
All you'd need on the Linux side would be a driver for the new card.

Now, if someone reverse-engineered the decrypter card so that you didn't
need it (i.e., replaced it with a software library), then yeah, that would
run afoul of the DMCA.

-JAC

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jcw at wilsonet

Sep 12, 2003, 12:41 AM

Post #4 of 6 (2533 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: FCC adopts 'plug and play' cable for TVs [In reply to]

On Thursday, Sep 11, 2003, at 12:44 US/Pacific, linux [at] keithandjill
wrote:

> Here's an example of my point :
> I currently get analog cable with 70ish channels. I get 6 HD stations
> over the air (NBC, ABC, CBS,
> PBS, UPN, Fox) with my TV's built in HD decoder. I'm paying
> <$40/month for cable.

I've been paying ~$45/mo for digital cable w/2 STBs (Motorola
DCT2000s). I can't get much of anything broadcast without an expensive
outdoor aerial...

> To get HD channels on my cable, I would pay $60/month, and would get a
> single network (CBS, I
> think), discovery and one other (might be HDNet). And I would need a
> digital HD cable box ($500)
> from Motorola. 2 premium movie channels have HD versions, but I don't
> subscibe to those.

I just found out Comcast (Seattle area) charges nothing extra for HD,
versus what I've been paying. All I paid is $16.00 for the tech trip
charge, and had one DCT2000 swapped out for a Motorola DCT5100
yesterday (didn't have to purchase it either; they furnished it). The
5100 kicks ass... MUCH faster menus and info boxes, optical and coax
digital out, component video to the TV, and more... This is probably
the best $16.00 I've ever spent!

> Sorry for the rant, but someone mentioned cable and I've been itching
> to jump on the soapbox
> lately. It's just so painful to get what you want from cable.

No complaints here. Comcast's HD channels look awesome, though I'm
hankerin' for more of 'em, now that I've had a taste...

> Once someone figures out how to
> combine the pcHDTV and PVR-250 in a single MythTV box, I'll have my 6
> HD channels and my
> analog cable all in one place. Ah, mythical convergence, indeed!

I'm gonna be working on that myself soon... Though I'm a dumb-ass and
didn't read that the pcHDTV only worked w/terrestrial broadcast HD, and
I'm thinking I won't be able to get much of a useable signal...

--Jarod

--
Jarod C. Wilson, RHCE

Got a question? Read this first...
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

MythTV, Red Hat Linux 9 & ATrpms documentation:
http://pvrhw.goldfish.org/tiki-page.php?pageName=rh9pvr250


chris at carde

Sep 12, 2003, 12:11 PM

Post #5 of 6 (2543 views)
Permalink
RE: OT: FCC adopts 'plug and play' cable for TVs [In reply to]

Hello,

I believe the standard being proposed is "OpenCable"
(http://www.opencable.cm/). I had an interesting email exchange with
some of the people involved in OpenCable regarding the hypothetical
viability of an open-source OpenCable implementation. There are some
interesting issues that, as far as I can tell, would prevent any open
source implementation from succeeding. First, let me relay some of the
more interesting points I've learned. This information is all available
in the specifications and other documents on OpenCable's site:

- OpenCable not only specifies the modulation, encoding, and encryption
standards for interoperable digital (and HDTV) cable services. It also
defines a software platform to deliver software services to the user
terminal. These services could take the form of a traditional on-screen
program guide or could implement "next generation" interactive
television. It's up to the imagination of those implementing a
particular system.

- As mentioned earlier, access control for user terminals will take the
form of Point-Of-Deployment (POD) modules. These PODs will likely come
in the form of smart cards or PCMCIA form-factor devices. The POD will
interact with the cable head-end to selectively authorize and decrypt
services to which the user subscribes.

Conventional wisdom suggests that one could take the specification and
build an open implementation around that would interoperate with the
cable company's proprietary POD and everyone would be happy.
Unfortunately, that's not the case. The industry is not only concerned
with unauthorized persons obtaining access to pay channels -- they're
also concerned with people having the capability to record this content
in the digital domain and redistribute it. Consequently, they've
essentially built the system to tightly control who can make POD
"hosts". The POD will use cryptographic signatures to authenticate to
the host device when it is inserted. Reverse-engineering secret keys
from existing hardware manufacturers will not necessarily be worthwhile,
as certificates can be revoked at the cable head end. Furthermore, the
POD and host module will negotiate symmetric encryption of certain video
content to transmit between the POD and host module to avoid the
possibility of a man-in-the-middle attack intercepting and recording the
MPEG program stream.

The OpenCable licensing agreements require that any licensee must make
guarantees and demonstrate that their system is reasonably resistant to
tampering, video extraction, and reverse-engineering of the keys. Only
then will keys be released and assigned to a manufacturer.

Please forgive me if I've made any egregious errors here. It's been a
month or two since I read the specs and this is just what I remember.
For further reading, take a look at these links:

OpenCable Security Specification
http://www.opencable.com/downloads/specs/OC-SP-SEC-I02-030707.pdf

Copy Protection in Digital Cable Systems
http://www.opencable.com/downloads/BrobergNCTA2001.pdf

POD-Host Interface License Agreement
http://www.opencable.com/downloads/PHILA_080103.pdf

Getting on my soapbox for a minute, it's a darned shame that things had
to come to this. From a purely technological perspective, this
specification could have lead to an industry-leading open-source
implementation of a Linux-based cable television terminal / PVR. But yet
again, due to DRM issues, the field will yet again be limited to major
commercial players.

Chris

---------
Christopher Carde
Graduate Researcher, FutureTruck
UC Davis Hybrid Electric Vehicle Center
(530) 752-8849 http://www.team-fate.net/

-----Original Message-----
From: mythtv-users-bounces [at] mythtv
[mailto:mythtv-users-bounces [at] mythtv] On Behalf Of Joseph A. Caputo
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 1:22 PM
To: Discussion about mythtv
Subject: RE: [mythtv-users] OT: FCC adopts 'plug and play' cable for TVs

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mythtv-users-bounces [at] mythtv
> [mailto:mythtv-users-bounces [at] mythtv]On Behalf Of
> linux [at] keithandjill
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 3:45 PM
> To: Discussion about mythtv
> Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] OT: FCC adopts 'plug and play' cable for
TVs
>
>
> Look for DMCA lawsuits against the first person who
> reverse-engineers the encryption cards to
> allow Linux boxes access to content. Just like DeCSS and DVDs.

Not necessarily; it really wouldn't require any reverse engineering. If
TV
manufacturers can use the technology, then so can TV-tuner card
manufacturers. All it requires is for somebody like Hauppauge to come
to
market with a tuner card that has a socket for the 'decryption card'
from
your cable provider. You'd still need to *get* the card from your cable
provider; you'd just be plugging it into a PCI adapter instead of your
TV.
All you'd need on the Linux side would be a driver for the new card.

Now, if someone reverse-engineered the decrypter card so that you didn't
need it (i.e., replaced it with a software library), then yeah, that
would
run afoul of the DMCA.

-JAC

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


jcaputo1 at comcast

Sep 12, 2003, 1:43 PM

Post #6 of 6 (2522 views)
Permalink
RE: OT: FCC adopts 'plug and play' cable for TVs [In reply to]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mythtv-users-bounces [at] mythtv
> [mailto:mythtv-users-bounces [at] mythtv]On Behalf Of Christopher Carde
> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 3:12 PM
> To: 'Discussion about mythtv'
> Subject: RE: [mythtv-users] OT: FCC adopts 'plug and play' cable for TVs
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I believe the standard being proposed is "OpenCable"
> (http://www.opencable.cm/). I had an interesting email exchange with
> some of the people involved in OpenCable regarding the hypothetical
> viability of an open-source OpenCable implementation. There are some
> interesting issues that, as far as I can tell, would prevent any open
> source implementation from succeeding. First, let me relay some of the
> more interesting points I've learned. This information is all available
> in the specifications and other documents on OpenCable's site:
>

[snip lots of details]

>
> OpenCable Security Specification
> http://www.opencable.com/downloads/specs/OC-SP-SEC-I02-030707.pdf
>
> Copy Protection in Digital Cable Systems
> http://www.opencable.com/downloads/BrobergNCTA2001.pdf
>
> POD-Host Interface License Agreement
> http://www.opencable.com/downloads/PHILA_080103.pdf
>
> Getting on my soapbox for a minute, it's a darned shame that things had
> to come to this. From a purely technological perspective, this
> specification could have lead to an industry-leading open-source
> implementation of a Linux-based cable television terminal / PVR. But yet
> again, due to DRM issues, the field will yet again be limited to major
> commercial players.
>
> Chris


Very interesting, and disappointing... however, you never know how things
will play out. There are certainly a few large players in the commercial
PVR space that would lobby hard to get OpenCable-supported cards for PCs...
among them Tivo, ReplayTV (are they still around?), and most notably and
biggest of all... Microsoft. Yes, the beast from Redmond will have a vested
interest in PC-cable interoperability as they promote their WinXP
MediaCenter. Of course, they'll find a way to lock it down, I'm sure, but
remember... it ain't over 'till the fat lady sings.

-JAC

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