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jansenj+myth at gmail

Dec 1, 2008, 6:26 PM

Post #1 of 31 (3761 views)
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mythweb/remote

Is it possible to use the remote portion of mythweb without a backend? I
don't seem to be able to get it to work. Mythweb runs on box A
frontend/backend, box B runs a mythfrontend that I want to be able to
control. box B shows up in the list of possible frontends to select on the
mythweb session being served up from box A, but it doesn't work. Does
anyone else have this working?

jansenj+myth at gmail

Dec 1, 2008, 6:33 PM

Post #2 of 31 (3701 views)
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Re: mythweb/remote [In reply to]

Let me follow up to my own thread. Last time I looked at the source for
mythweb/remote, it looks like when you select the frontend-only system, it
simple trys an http access to frontend-only-ip/mythweb/remote. This would
imply to me that in order for the remote feature to work, you must have a
backend installed so you can run mythweb on each system you want to control
from mythweb/remote. Does anyone know if I am way off in left field?

jon.the.wise.gdrive at gmail

Dec 1, 2008, 9:12 PM

Post #3 of 31 (3691 views)
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Re: mythweb/remote [In reply to]

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 6:33 PM, jansenj <jansenj+myth [at] gmail> wrote:
> Let me follow up to my own thread. Last time I looked at the source for
> mythweb/remote, it looks like when you select the frontend-only system, it
> simple trys an http access to frontend-only-ip/mythweb/remote. This would
> imply to me that in order for the remote feature to work, you must have a
> backend installed so you can run mythweb on each system you want to control
> from mythweb/remote. Does anyone know if I am way off in left field?

MythWeb is a seperate package from mythbackend. Can you try installing
just the mythweb portion on the frontend, and see if that is
sufficient. It should still be able to connect to the database and
frontend without a backend running. I personally have a backend
installed on all my frontend systems, makes it easier to increase the
number of inexpensive PCI tuners. Will be a sad day when comcast
finishes migrating to an all digital lineup... unless someone can
convince them, of the FCC, that it's in the nations best interests for
standard cable to be unencrypted.

~Jon
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lists at glidos

Dec 2, 2008, 2:42 AM

Post #4 of 31 (3675 views)
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Re: mythweb/remote [In reply to]

Jonny B wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 6:33 PM, jansenj <jansenj+myth [at] gmail> wrote:
>> Let me follow up to my own thread. Last time I looked at the source for
>> mythweb/remote, it looks like when you select the frontend-only system, it
>> simple trys an http access to frontend-only-ip/mythweb/remote. This would
>> imply to me that in order for the remote feature to work, you must have a
>> backend installed so you can run mythweb on each system you want to control
>> from mythweb/remote. Does anyone know if I am way off in left field?
>
> MythWeb is a seperate package from mythbackend. Can you try installing
> just the mythweb portion on the frontend, and see if that is
> sufficient. It should still be able to connect to the database and
> frontend without a backend running. I personally have a backend
> installed on all my frontend systems, makes it easier to increase the
> number of inexpensive PCI tuners. Will be a sad day when comcast
> finishes migrating to an all digital lineup... unless someone can
> convince them, of the FCC, that it's in the nations best interests for
> standard cable to be unencrypted.

Are you sure you need multiple installations of MythWeb. Installation
on the master backend should be sufficient, and then you access it from
any other computer using a web browser.

I'm not sure what you are trying to do. You said something about
selecting box B from the MythWeb session. What aspect of box B do
you wish to control via MythWeb? Box B, being front end only, you can't
set up recordings on it.

I'm no MythTv expert, so I maybe I'm just misunderstanding the question.

Cheers,
Paul.

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jon.the.wise.gdrive at gmail

Dec 2, 2008, 2:54 AM

Post #5 of 31 (3675 views)
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Re: mythweb/remote [In reply to]

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Paul Gardiner <lists [at] glidos> wrote:
> Jonny B wrote:
>> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 6:33 PM, jansenj <jansenj+myth [at] gmail> wrote:
>>> Let me follow up to my own thread. Last time I looked at the source for
>>> mythweb/remote, it looks like when you select the frontend-only system, it
>>> simple trys an http access to frontend-only-ip/mythweb/remote. This would
>>> imply to me that in order for the remote feature to work, you must have a
>>> backend installed so you can run mythweb on each system you want to control
>>> from mythweb/remote. Does anyone know if I am way off in left field?
>>
>> MythWeb is a seperate package from mythbackend. Can you try installing
>> just the mythweb portion on the frontend, and see if that is
>> sufficient.

> Are you sure you need multiple installations of MythWeb. Installation
> on the master backend should be sufficient, and then you access it from
> any other computer using a web browser.

No, I am not sure. I was just responding to the OP's request. They are
looking to use the remote functions on their frontend, but don't have
the appropriate paths installed. I presume that the scripts to control
the frontend are in the mythweb package, and suggested that be
installed.

> I'm not sure what you are trying to do. You said something about
> selecting box B from the MythWeb session. What aspect of box B do
> you wish to control via MythWeb? Box B, being front end only, you can't
> set up recordings on it.

Sounds like they want to use a web browser as a remote control.

~Jon
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jansenj+myth at gmail

Dec 2, 2008, 7:42 AM

Post #6 of 31 (3673 views)
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Re: mythweb/remote [In reply to]

>
> Sounds like they want to use a web browser as a remote control.
>

Correct

> >> MythWeb is a seperate package from mythbackend. Can you try installing
> >> just the mythweb portion on the frontend, and see if that is
> >> sufficient.

I could manually go through and do this, but mythbuntu evidently
doesn't want you to install mythweb unless you have a backend
installed as well. I could see if that would work, but I'd really
rather not use the overhead for cpu and ram of running a web server on
the frontend seeing as it is an appletv and doesn't have much to
spare.

> > Are you sure you need multiple installations of MythWeb. Installation
> > on the master backend should be sufficient, and then you access it from
> > any other computer using a web browser.

As far as I can tell you do.

I'm no web programmer, but what I saw in the code indicated that when
you select the frontend only to control it tries to check if it can
control it by attempting to load something via http from the frontend
only. Since I don't have mythweb running on the frontend, it bails
out and says it can't find the appletv, even though it is clearly
there since it gave me the option to select that frontend to begin
with.

I've verified that the network remote control works with a telnet
session, but the mythweb was the only method I knew of that would let
me use network remote control from a windows box. Maybe someone has
another suggestion. VNC isn't really an option while you're watching
a recording, but it does work while moving through menus(which is what
I'm using right now when I need more than 6 buttons). I suppose
synergy might be another round about option, but that doesn't sound
very clean.

Any other ideas, or confirmations on needing mythweb to running
natively on a frontend if you want to control it via mythweb/remote ?
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myth at robinhill

Dec 2, 2008, 7:57 AM

Post #7 of 31 (3671 views)
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Re: mythweb/remote [In reply to]

On Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 10:42:55AM -0500, jansenj wrote:

> I've verified that the network remote control works with a telnet
> session, but the mythweb was the only method I knew of that would let
> me use network remote control from a windows box.
>
Why not use telnet from the windows box?

Cheers,
Robin
--
___
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/ / ) | Little Jim says .... |
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jansenj+myth at gmail

Dec 2, 2008, 8:01 AM

Post #8 of 31 (3672 views)
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Re: mythweb/remote [In reply to]

> Why not use telnet from the windows box?

you have to type out too much, and its not graphical. its too much of
a pain, I'd rather resort to vnc.

If someone had a gui of a keyboard or remote that resolves into telnet
commands, that would work, but I haven't found anything like that.
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joshoekstra at gmx

Dec 2, 2008, 8:50 AM

Post #9 of 31 (3669 views)
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Re: mythweb/remote [In reply to]

jansenj schreef op 2-12-2008 17:01:
>> Why not use telnet from the windows box?
>
> you have to type out too much, and its not graphical. its too much of
> a pain, I'd rather resort to vnc.
>
> If someone had a gui of a keyboard or remote that resolves into telnet
> commands, that would work, but I haven't found anything like that.

Why not investigate why the mythweb remote doesn't work? Here it works
just fine, don't use it much though.
As far as I know mythweb uses mythcontrols for it, mythcontrols is a
package you would install on the frontend.
Then you enable it on the frontend and it works(deliciously ;))

Regards,

Jos Hoekstra
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jansenj+myth at gmail

Dec 2, 2008, 12:19 PM

Post #10 of 31 (3667 views)
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Re: mythweb/remote [In reply to]

Maybe someone can shed some light on this portion of the php since I'm
not a php guy.

var r = new Ajax.Request('<?php echo root ?>remote/',

{
parameters:
'ping='+encodeURIComponent(host),
asynchronous: false
});
// Handle the response
if (r.transport.responseText == '0') {
alert("<?php echo t('$1 is not responding.', '"+host+"') ?>");
return;
}

I am hitting the "is not responding" for my frontend-only, but my
frontend/backend works just fine.
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stevehodge at gmail

Dec 2, 2008, 1:08 PM

Post #11 of 31 (3665 views)
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Re: mythweb/remote [In reply to]

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 4:42 AM, jansenj <jansenj+myth [at] gmail> wrote:
> VNC isn't really an option while you're watching
> a recording, but it does work while moving through menus(which is what
> I'm using right now when I need more than 6 buttons).

Why is VNC not an option during a recording? That's what I use. You
can't see the video when you're playing something but the keys still
work. And you can't see the video with MythWeb's remote control
either.

Cheers,
Steve
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mrand at pobox

Dec 2, 2008, 1:26 PM

Post #12 of 31 (3667 views)
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Re: mythweb/remote [In reply to]

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 10:01 AM, jansenj <jansenj+myth [at] gmail> wrote:
>> Why not use telnet from the windows box?
>
> you have to type out too much, and its not graphical. its too much of
> a pain, I'd rather resort to vnc.
>
> If someone had a gui of a keyboard or remote that resolves into telnet
> commands, that would work, but I haven't found anything like that.

Don't know if what you want is contained in this list of telnet
interfaces that I collected, but it might:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=6007819&postcount=5

Have fun,

Marc
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xavier.hervy at bluebottle

Dec 2, 2008, 1:51 PM

Post #13 of 31 (3671 views)
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Re: mythweb/remote [In reply to]

jansenj wrote:
> Maybe someone can shed some light on this portion of the php since I'm
> not a php guy.
>
> var r = new Ajax.Request('<?php echo root ?>remote/',
>
> {
> parameters:
> 'ping='+encodeURIComponent(host),
> asynchronous: false
> });
> // Handle the response
> if (r.transport.responseText == '0') {
> alert("<?php echo t('$1 is not responding.', '"+host+"') ?>");
> return;
> }
>
> I am hitting the "is not responding" for my frontend-only, but my
> frontend/backend works just fine.
>

I believe that the remote on mythweb make use of the mythfrontend's
telnet interface. You need to activate it somewhere in the menu.

Xavier
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mrand at pobox

Dec 2, 2008, 1:53 PM

Post #14 of 31 (3666 views)
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Re: mythweb/remote [In reply to]

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 3:26 PM, Marc Randolph <mrand [at] pobox> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 10:01 AM, jansenj <jansenj+myth [at] gmail> wrote:
>>> Why not use telnet from the windows box?
>>
>> you have to type out too much, and its not graphical. its too much of
>> a pain, I'd rather resort to vnc.
>>
>> If someone had a gui of a keyboard or remote that resolves into telnet
>> commands, that would work, but I haven't found anything like that.
>
> Don't know if what you want is contained in this list of telnet
> interfaces that I collected, but it might:

I should have just integrated those with the ones listed on the myth wiki,
which had others listed. So I've done that. Ignore the above link
and just go here:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Telnet_socket#Examples

Marc
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jansenj+myth at gmail

Dec 2, 2008, 1:59 PM

Post #15 of 31 (3675 views)
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Re: mythweb/remote [In reply to]

> Why is VNC not an option during a recording? That's what I use. You
> can't see the video when you're playing something but the keys still
> work. And you can't see the video with MythWeb's remote control
> either.

If I VNC in while I'm WATCHING a recording, I get a lot of
prebuffering pauses and the like. And on my system, the video is sent
to the vnc screen, granted about 1 frame every 3 seconds. It just
causes playback hickups on the frontend while you're connected.
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jerome at supernet

Dec 2, 2008, 2:00 PM

Post #16 of 31 (3663 views)
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Re: mythweb/remote [In reply to]

On Tuesday 02 December 2008 14:53, Marc Randolph wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 3:26 PM, Marc Randolph <mrand [at] pobox> wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 10:01 AM, jansenj <jansenj+myth [at] gmail> wrote:
> >>> Why not use telnet from the windows box?
> >>
> >> you have to type out too much, and its not graphical. its too much of
> >> a pain, I'd rather resort to vnc.
> >>
> >> If someone had a gui of a keyboard or remote that resolves into telnet
> >> commands, that would work, but I haven't found anything like that.
> >
> > Don't know if what you want is contained in this list of telnet
> > interfaces that I collected, but it might:
>
> I should have just integrated those with the ones listed on the myth wiki,
> which had others listed. So I've done that. Ignore the above link
> and just go here:
>
> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Telnet_socket#Examples
>
> Marc

You are welcome to check out the one I made via the link I have in my sig.
It's very robust, uses CLI or PerlTk. It's a "works for me" work, but
demonstrates all you need to know to do over-wire remote. My physical one is
rarely touched.

--
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jansenj+myth at gmail

Dec 2, 2008, 2:07 PM

Post #17 of 31 (3670 views)
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Re: mythweb/remote [In reply to]

> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Telnet_socket#Examples

Thanks, I'll look into these.

I was still hoping someone could shed some light as to why I would be
reaching "is not responding" in the php when attempting to access a
standalone frontend from a mythweb session being served up by a
seperate backend. Thats my fundamental problem.

What would the following be doing?

var r = new Ajax.Request('<?php echo root ?>remote/',
{
parameters:
'ping='+encodeURIComponent(host),
asynchronous: false
});

when both of the following commands wok fine:
telnet 192.168.0.5 6546
ping 192.168.0.5
and the frontend in question shows up in the list of available
frontends, its just when I try to select it, I get the "<hostname> is
not responding" error.
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stevehodge at gmail

Dec 2, 2008, 2:17 PM

Post #18 of 31 (3663 views)
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Re: mythweb/remote [In reply to]

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 10:59 AM, jansenj <jansenj+myth [at] gmail> wrote:
>> Why is VNC not an option during a recording? That's what I use. You
>> can't see the video when you're playing something but the keys still
>> work. And you can't see the video with MythWeb's remote control
>> either.
>
> If I VNC in while I'm WATCHING a recording, I get a lot of
> prebuffering pauses and the like. And on my system, the video is sent
> to the vnc screen, granted about 1 frame every 3 seconds. It just
> causes playback hickups on the frontend while you're connected.

Ah, I guess you're using xshm or xlib for playback rendering? Try
xvblit. That should use a video overlay and then the vnc screen won't
get the video - it'll just be blue. But playback on the frontend will
be unaffected.

Regards,
Steve
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myth at robinhill

Dec 2, 2008, 2:27 PM

Post #19 of 31 (3662 views)
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Re: mythweb/remote [In reply to]

On Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 05:07:38PM -0500, jansenj wrote:

> > http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Telnet_socket#Examples
>
> Thanks, I'll look into these.
>
> I was still hoping someone could shed some light as to why I would be
> reaching "is not responding" in the php when attempting to access a
> standalone frontend from a mythweb session being served up by a
> seperate backend. Thats my fundamental problem.
>
> What would the following be doing?
>
> var r = new Ajax.Request('<?php echo root ?>remote/',
> {
> parameters:
> 'ping='+encodeURIComponent(host),
> asynchronous: false
> });
>
The "<?php echo root ?>" will return the root of the mythweb site (e.g.
http://backend/mythweb/). It's then appending "remote/" to this URL.
The request parameters are then "ping=frontend", so the complete URL
will be something like:
http://backend/mythweb/remote/?ping=frontend

On my combined frontend/backend, calling this will give the current
status (e.g. Playback Video ......), whereas using an invalid frontend
hostname will give a "0". The frontend name used here is (I think)
whatever's shown in the Frontends list on the remote screen.

HTH,
Robin
--
___
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/ / ) | Little Jim says .... |
// !! | "He fallen in de water !!" |

jansenj+myth at gmail

Dec 2, 2008, 2:27 PM

Post #20 of 31 (3660 views)
Permalink

Re: mythweb/remote [In reply to]

> Ah, I guess you're using xshm or xlib for playback rendering? Try
> xvblit. That should use a video overlay and then the vnc screen won't
> get the video - it'll just be blue. But playback on the frontend will
> be unaffected.

nope, as far as I know, its xvblit. It doesn't really matter though.
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stevehodge at gmail

Dec 2, 2008, 2:35 PM

Post #21 of 31 (3662 views)
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Re: mythweb/remote [In reply to]

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 11:27 AM, jansenj <jansenj+myth [at] gmail> wrote:
>> Ah, I guess you're using xshm or xlib for playback rendering? Try
>> xvblit. That should use a video overlay and then the vnc screen won't
>> get the video - it'll just be blue. But playback on the frontend will
>> be unaffected.
>
> nope, as far as I know, its xvblit. It doesn't really matter though.

Perhaps it's something to do with you X setup then. The lack of video
overlay is what is causing VNC to be unusable for you anyway.

Regards,
Steve
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jansenj+myth at gmail

Dec 2, 2008, 6:06 PM

Post #22 of 31 (3662 views)
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Re: mythweb/remote [In reply to]

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Steve Hodge <stevehodge [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 11:27 AM, jansenj <jansenj+myth [at] gmail> wrote:
>>> Ah, I guess you're using xshm or xlib for playback rendering? Try
>>> xvblit. That should use a video overlay and then the vnc screen won't
>>> get the video - it'll just be blue. But playback on the frontend will
>>> be unaffected.

I guess you were partially right, I forgot the overlay was different
for xvmc, so it uses xvmc-blit which evidently passes the info to the
vnc as well...don't know why though, but I'm not that concerned about
that.
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jansenj+myth at gmail

Dec 2, 2008, 6:14 PM

Post #23 of 31 (3662 views)
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Re: mythweb/remote [In reply to]

> so the complete URL
> will be something like:
> http://backend/mythweb/remote/?ping=frontend
>
> On my combined frontend/backend, calling this will give the current
> status (e.g. Playback Video ......), whereas using an invalid frontend
> hostname will give a "0". The frontend name used here is (I think)
> whatever's shown in the Frontends list on the remote screen.

so, do you know what services in the frontend that would be
responsible for replying to this ping? like I said, I can telnet in
and control, but this ping doesn't work
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myth at robinhill

Dec 3, 2008, 1:04 AM

Post #24 of 31 (3636 views)
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Re: mythweb/remote [In reply to]

On Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:14:42PM -0500, jansenj wrote:

> > so the complete URL
> > will be something like:
> > http://backend/mythweb/remote/?ping=frontend
> >
> > On my combined frontend/backend, calling this will give the current
> > status (e.g. Playback Video ......), whereas using an invalid frontend
> > hostname will give a "0". The frontend name used here is (I think)
> > whatever's shown in the Frontends list on the remote screen.
>
> so, do you know what services in the frontend that would be
> responsible for replying to this ping? like I said, I can telnet in
> and control, but this ping doesn't work
>
Reading through the mythweb code, it would appear to connect to the
telnet interface of the frontend. It gets the frontend name & port via
the following SQL:

SELECT s1.hostname, s2.data
FROM settings AS s1, settings AS s2
WHERE s1.hostname = s2.hostname
AND s1.value = "NetworkControlEnabled"
AND s1.data=1
AND s2.value = "NetworkControlPort"
ORDER BY s1.hostname

So you can try running that against the backend SQL database and check
the port & hostname are correct (though I'd expect other things to fail
if not).

Anyway, the "ping" command will connect to the interface (checking for a
'#' in the initial response), then it'll send a "query location"
request. Your system would appear to be failing on the initial connect
though.

Since this is connecting through from the backend (where mythweb is
running), have you tried telnetting from there to the frontend telnet
interface (rather than from your windows system)?

Hope some of that helps!

Cheers,
Robin
--
___
( ' } | Robin Hill <myth [at] robinhill> |
/ / ) | Little Jim says .... |
// !! | "He fallen in de water !!" |

joshoekstra at gmx

Dec 3, 2008, 3:01 AM

Post #25 of 31 (3620 views)
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Re: mythweb/remote [In reply to]

Robin Hill schreef op 3-12-2008 10:04:
> On Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:14:42PM -0500, jansenj wrote:
>
>>> so the complete URL
>>> will be something like:
>>> http://backend/mythweb/remote/?ping=frontend
>>>
>>> On my combined frontend/backend, calling this will give the current
>>> status (e.g. Playback Video ......), whereas using an invalid frontend
>>> hostname will give a "0". The frontend name used here is (I think)
>>> whatever's shown in the Frontends list on the remote screen.
>> so, do you know what services in the frontend that would be
>> responsible for replying to this ping? like I said, I can telnet in
>> and control, but this ping doesn't work
>>
> Reading through the mythweb code, it would appear to connect to the
> telnet interface of the frontend. It gets the frontend name & port via
> the following SQL:
>
> SELECT s1.hostname, s2.data
> FROM settings AS s1, settings AS s2
> WHERE s1.hostname = s2.hostname
> AND s1.value = "NetworkControlEnabled"
> AND s1.data=1
> AND s2.value = "NetworkControlPort"
> ORDER BY s1.hostname
>
> So you can try running that against the backend SQL database and check
> the port & hostname are correct (though I'd expect other things to fail
> if not).
>
> Anyway, the "ping" command will connect to the interface (checking for a
> '#' in the initial response), then it'll send a "query location"
> request. Your system would appear to be failing on the initial connect
> though.
>
> Since this is connecting through from the backend (where mythweb is
> running), have you tried telnetting from there to the frontend telnet
> interface (rather than from your windows system)?
>
> Hope some of that helps!
>
> Cheers,
> Robin
>

Like I asked before, did you install networkcontrols(separate package on
Ubuntu) and enable the network controls in the frontend setup?
If you're not getting anything via the mythweb ping it's probably
because you haven't installed/enabled the network controls.

Regards,

Jos Hoekstra

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