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OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc

 

 

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skd5aner at gmail

Dec 1, 2008, 8:27 AM

Post #1 of 78 (2850 views)
Permalink
OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc

Hi! Sorry for the OT, but I figured that the topic ties into this
community pretty nicely

Any advice, websites, books, etc out there for wiring a home during
construction? I'll be starting to build my house in the next month or
so from the ground up. I've pretty much got carte blanche on what I
can do, and I plan to do most of the wiring for cat6, coax, phone,
A/V, speaker, etc myself to gain some sweat equity, and I'm just a DIY
kinda guy - which I'm sure most of you on this list can relate to.

So... Where should I start? I want to do it "right", and I want to
make sure that I'm futureproofing it as much as I can. I've got some
general ideas and thoughts, and I'm no stranger to making cables, I've
just never done a full home setup before from the ground up.

Also, I don't know if I'll do home automation from the start, but it'd
be nice to get anything I'd need behind the walls while I can, so that
I'm set to go.

Thanks!
Matt
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yan at seiner

Dec 1, 2008, 8:31 AM

Post #2 of 78 (2761 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc [In reply to]

On Mon, December 1, 2008 8:27 am, Matt S. wrote:
> Hi! Sorry for the OT, but I figured that the topic ties into this
> community pretty nicely
>
> Any advice, websites, books, etc out there for wiring a home during
> construction? I'll be starting to build my house in the next month or
> so from the ground up. I've pretty much got carte blanche on what I
> can do, and I plan to do most of the wiring for cat6, coax, phone,
> A/V, speaker, etc myself to gain some sweat equity, and I'm just a DIY
> kinda guy - which I'm sure most of you on this list can relate to.
>
> So... Where should I start? I want to do it "right", and I want to
> make sure that I'm futureproofing it as much as I can. I've got some
> general ideas and thoughts, and I'm no stranger to making cables, I've
> just never done a full home setup before from the ground up.
>

Don't run cable, run conduit then pull cable. A 1" conduit can probably
hold 3-4 cables comfortably. Run it all to a central location where your
hub/server will be with no more than 2 ells and you're golden.

You can always pull cable later as needed.

--Yan

--
o__
,>/'_ o__
(_)\(_) ,>/'_ o__
Yan Seiner (_)\(_) ,>/'_ o__
Personal Trainer (_)\(_) ,>/'_ o__
Professional Engineer (_)\(_) ,>/'_
Who says engineers have to be pencil necked geeks? (_)\(_)

You are an adult when you realize that everyone's an idiot sometimes. You
are wise when you include yourself.


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steve at heistand

Dec 1, 2008, 8:37 AM

Post #3 of 78 (2763 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc [In reply to]

On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 08:31:57 -0800 (PST), Yan Seiner wrote
> On Mon, December 1, 2008 8:27 am, Matt S. wrote:
> > Hi! Sorry for the OT, but I figured that the topic ties into this
> > community pretty nicely
> >
> > Any advice, websites, books, etc out there for wiring a home during
> > construction? I'll be starting to build my house in the next month or
> > so from the ground up. I've pretty much got carte blanche on what I
> > can do, and I plan to do most of the wiring for cat6, coax, phone,
> > A/V, speaker, etc myself to gain some sweat equity, and I'm just a DIY
> > kinda guy - which I'm sure most of you on this list can relate to.
> >
> > So... Where should I start? I want to do it "right", and I want to
> > make sure that I'm futureproofing it as much as I can. I've got some
> > general ideas and thoughts, and I'm no stranger to making cables, I've
> > just never done a full home setup before from the ground up.
> >
>
> Don't run cable, run conduit then pull cable. A 1" conduit can probably
> hold 3-4 cables comfortably. Run it all to a central location where your
> hub/server will be with no more than 2 ells and you're golden.
>


plus make sure to run a few extra outlets to areas you know or even think
you may have a lot of electronics at.


"Why is it so hot inside this handbasket?"
--
Steve Heistand
steve [at] heistand

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drescherjm at gmail

Dec 1, 2008, 8:39 AM

Post #4 of 78 (2765 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc [In reply to]

> Don't run cable, run conduit then pull cable. A 1" conduit can probably
> hold 3-4 cables comfortably. Run it all to a central location where your
> hub/server will be with no more than 2 ells and you're golden.
>
> You can always pull cable later as needed.
>

That would definitely be the best future proof design.

And thankfully this is what verizon did when it rewired our
neighborhood. Instead of just pulling fiberopitc cables through the
neighborhood (underground) they put pulled plastic tubes and have
concentrator boxes at about every other house. This way when the
technology changes they can replace the cabling without having to dig
up the yards again.

John
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pc-mythtv08a at crowcastle

Dec 1, 2008, 8:48 AM

Post #5 of 78 (2767 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc [In reply to]

> > > Any advice, websites, books, etc out there for wiring a home during
> > > construction?

> > Don't run cable, run conduit then pull cable. A 1" conduit can probably
> > hold 3-4 cables comfortably. Run it all to a central location where your
> > hub/server will be with no more than 2 ells and you're golden.

Yes! I wish my house had conduit.

> plus make sure to run a few extra outlets to areas you know or even think
> you may have a lot of electronics at.

Yup, but consider surge protection. The best solution might be a
whole-house surge protector. Of course, you'll probably want a UPS on
any backend equipment (computer, cable box, HDHomeRun, etc.), and in my
case that results in using one plug for everything (my UPS has
non-battery outlets that are surge protected).

Going to a system with a house-wide UPS with special outlets for
battery-backed equipment is probably overkill for most people. (I think
that's essentially what hospitals do, only with a generator.)

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mythtv at tedde

Dec 1, 2008, 8:49 AM

Post #6 of 78 (2769 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc [In reply to]

>> Any advice, websites, books, etc out there for wiring a home during
>> construction? I'll be starting to build my house in the next month or
>>
>>
>
> Don't run cable, run conduit then pull cable. A 1" conduit can probably
> hold 3-4 cables comfortably. Run it all to a central location where your
> hub/server will be with no more than 2 ells and you're golden.
>
> You can always pull cable later as needed.
>

I think the suggestion by Yan is very appropriate, but if you have to
run (at least some of) the cable at time of construction I have three
small suggestions:
1. Make sure you are able to put all wanted hardware where the cables
end with high WAF (24/48 port switches ususally dont fit in small
enclosures, multiple 8ports might work though)
2. remember that LAN and other outlets are nice to have in/on the
shed/garage/patio too...
3. wherever you put one cat 6, may I suggest you put 2?

Fredrik
- who juggles Network/Telephone/IPTV using vlans in a house where the
patch panel is located next to the washing machine!

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scott.milliken at e-comsultant

Dec 1, 2008, 8:50 AM

Post #7 of 78 (2766 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc [In reply to]

Yan Seiner wrote:
> On Mon, December 1, 2008 8:27 am, Matt S. wrote:
>
>> Hi! Sorry for the OT, but I figured that the topic ties into this
>> community pretty nicely
>>
>> Any advice, websites, books, etc out there for wiring a home during
>> construction? I'll be starting to build my house in the next month or
>> so from the ground up. I've pretty much got carte blanche on what I
>> can do, and I plan to do most of the wiring for cat6, coax, phone,
>> A/V, speaker, etc myself to gain some sweat equity, and I'm just a DIY
>> kinda guy - which I'm sure most of you on this list can relate to.
>>
>> So... Where should I start? I want to do it "right", and I want to
>> make sure that I'm futureproofing it as much as I can. I've got some
>> general ideas and thoughts, and I'm no stranger to making cables, I've
>> just never done a full home setup before from the ground up.
>>
>>
>
> Don't run cable, run conduit then pull cable. A 1" conduit can probably
> hold 3-4 cables comfortably. Run it all to a central location where your
> hub/server will be with no more than 2 ells and you're golden.
>
> You can always pull cable later as needed.
>
> --Yan
>
>
And just as important as putting in the conduit - get plenty of pull
string to put into each conduit. I had a friend put conduit in his
house and he forgot to put in string, so the first cable pull ended up
having to be forced from one end through to the other.

Scott Milliken
Attachments: smime.p7s (3.60 KB)


stuart at xnet

Dec 1, 2008, 8:53 AM

Post #8 of 78 (2765 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc [In reply to]

Yan Seiner wrote:
> On Mon, December 1, 2008 8:27 am, Matt S. wrote:
>> Hi! Sorry for the OT, but I figured that the topic ties into this
>> community pretty nicely
>>
>> Any advice, websites, books, etc out there for wiring a home during
>> construction? I'll be starting to build my house in the next month or
>> so from the ground up. I've pretty much got carte blanche on what I
>> can do, and I plan to do most of the wiring for cat6, coax, phone,
>> A/V, speaker, etc myself to gain some sweat equity, and I'm just a DIY
>> kinda guy - which I'm sure most of you on this list can relate to.
>>
>> So... Where should I start? I want to do it "right", and I want to
>> make sure that I'm futureproofing it as much as I can. I've got some
>> general ideas and thoughts, and I'm no stranger to making cables, I've
>> just never done a full home setup before from the ground up.
>>
>
> Don't run cable, run conduit then pull cable. A 1" conduit can probably
> hold 3-4 cables comfortably.

If you are talking to a builder, I think these are called "cable
chases". (You might talk to your builder about fire stop techniques for
these tubes.)

> Run it all to a central location where your
> hub/server will be with no more than 2 ells and you're golden.

And I think these are called "home runs".

> You can always pull cable later as needed.

Lucky you, I'm still having to go through walls :-O.

> --Yan
>
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beww at beww

Dec 1, 2008, 8:54 AM

Post #9 of 78 (2765 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc [In reply to]

On Monday 01 December 2008 09:48:16 Preston Crow wrote:
> > > > Any advice, websites, books, etc out there for wiring a home during
> > > > construction?
> > >
> > > Don't run cable, run conduit then pull cable. A 1" conduit can
> > > probably hold 3-4 cables comfortably. Run it all to a central location
> > > where your hub/server will be with no more than 2 ells and you're
> > > golden.
>
> Yes! I wish my house had conduit.
>
> > plus make sure to run a few extra outlets to areas you know or even think
> > you may have a lot of electronics at.
>
> Yup, but consider surge protection. The best solution might be a
> whole-house surge protector. Of course, you'll probably want a UPS on
> any backend equipment (computer, cable box, HDHomeRun, etc.), and in my
> case that results in using one plug for everything (my UPS has
> non-battery outlets that are surge protected).
>
> Going to a system with a house-wide UPS with special outlets for
> battery-backed equipment is probably overkill for most people. (I think
> that's essentially what hospitals do, only with a generator.)

Major electronics facilities, like TV stations, which is what I have
experience with, generally use a large UPS system that can cruise for a while
on battery power, the assumption being that the batteries will last long
enough for the generator(s) to get up to speed.

You may have seen the orange-colored AC outlets, which a lot of people think
means "UPS". Actually it means "Isolated Ground", as most well-designed UPS
systems have that as part of the system.

But I agree, it's probably overkill for a residential setup.


--
beww
beww [at] beww
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lynchmv at gmail

Dec 1, 2008, 8:54 AM

Post #10 of 78 (2769 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc [In reply to]

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:50 AM, Scott Milliken
<scott.milliken [at] e-comsultant> wrote:
>
> And just as important as putting in the conduit - get plenty of pull string
> to put into each conduit. I had a friend put conduit in his house and he
> forgot to put in string, so the first cable pull ended up having to be
> forced from one end through to the other.
>
> Scott Milliken
>

Vacuum on one end, string with wadding on the other == pulled string easily!
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watkinshome at gmail

Dec 1, 2008, 8:56 AM

Post #11 of 78 (2772 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc [In reply to]

> And just as important as putting in the conduit - get plenty of pull string
> to put into each conduit. I had a friend put conduit in his house and he
> forgot to put in string, so the first cable pull ended up having to be
> forced from one end through to the other.

A vacuum cleaner (or whatever it's called in your part of the world)
will often be able to pull a string through a conduit.
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beww at beww

Dec 1, 2008, 8:57 AM

Post #12 of 78 (2766 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc [In reply to]

On Monday 01 December 2008 09:50:12 Scott Milliken wrote:
> Yan Seiner wrote:
> > On Mon, December 1, 2008 8:27 am, Matt S. wrote:
> >> Hi! Sorry for the OT, but I figured that the topic ties into this
> >> community pretty nicely
> >>
> >> Any advice, websites, books, etc out there for wiring a home during
> >> construction? I'll be starting to build my house in the next month or
> >> so from the ground up. I've pretty much got carte blanche on what I
> >> can do, and I plan to do most of the wiring for cat6, coax, phone,
> >> A/V, speaker, etc myself to gain some sweat equity, and I'm just a DIY
> >> kinda guy - which I'm sure most of you on this list can relate to.
> >>
> >> So... Where should I start? I want to do it "right", and I want to
> >> make sure that I'm futureproofing it as much as I can. I've got some
> >> general ideas and thoughts, and I'm no stranger to making cables, I've
> >> just never done a full home setup before from the ground up.
> >
> > Don't run cable, run conduit then pull cable. A 1" conduit can probably
> > hold 3-4 cables comfortably. Run it all to a central location where your
> > hub/server will be with no more than 2 ells and you're golden.
> >
> > You can always pull cable later as needed.
> >
> > --Yan
>
> And just as important as putting in the conduit - get plenty of pull
> string to put into each conduit. I had a friend put conduit in his
> house and he forgot to put in string, so the first cable pull ended up
> having to be forced from one end through to the other.

There are many ways to get a pull through a conduit, including blowing a cone
(think old-style paper cup) through with a vacuum cleaner. A fish tape should
go through an empty conduit easily, if it doesn't, then the conduit layout
was poorly designed.

But leaving a pull line in the pipe is always a good idea.

Be sure to use lots of wire lube when pulling, messy, but easier on the cables
(and the puller).

--
beww
beww [at] beww
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jarpublic at gmail

Dec 1, 2008, 8:58 AM

Post #13 of 78 (2765 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc [In reply to]

>
> And just as important as putting in the conduit - get plenty of pull string
> to put into each conduit. I had a friend put conduit in his house and he
> forgot to put in string, so the first cable pull ended up having to be
> forced from one end through to the other.
>

I have a buddy that is an electrician. He taught me a nice trick if you have
conduit. Just put a plastic bag tied to a small string in one end and then
vacuum from the other end. It will pull the bag and the string right
through.


elmastero74 at gmail

Dec 1, 2008, 9:26 AM

Post #14 of 78 (2767 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc [In reply to]

Just signed up for this list......

Never heard the vacuum w/conduit trick.....

Awesome!

-Aaron

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 8:58 AM, <jarpublic [at] gmail> wrote:

> And just as important as putting in the conduit - get plenty of pull string
>> to put into each conduit. I had a friend put conduit in his house and he
>> forgot to put in string, so the first cable pull ended up having to be
>> forced from one end through to the other.
>>
>
> I have a buddy that is an electrician. He taught me a nice trick if you
> have conduit. Just put a plastic bag tied to a small string in one end and
> then vacuum from the other end. It will pull the bag and the string right
> through.
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>


skd5aner at gmail

Dec 1, 2008, 9:32 AM

Post #15 of 78 (2765 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc [In reply to]

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:58 AM, <jarpublic [at] gmail> wrote:
>> And just as important as putting in the conduit - get plenty of pull
>> string to put into each conduit. I had a friend put conduit in his house
>> and he forgot to put in string, so the first cable pull ended up having to
>> be forced from one end through to the other.
>
> I have a buddy that is an electrician. He taught me a nice trick if you have
> conduit. Just put a plastic bag tied to a small string in one end and then
> vacuum from the other end. It will pull the bag and the string right
> through.

These are all great tips. Keep them coming! I'm sure it'll help not
only me, be a lot of other myth users.

I will definitely make sure to run conduit with all the tips above.
Also, I had already planned on running at least 3 cat5/6 lines to each
room, 1 for phone, 1 for network, 1 for future/other: I also plan on
running at least 1, but probably 2, coax runs to each room.

As an FYI, here's some more high-level basics of the house and what I
want to do:

- 2 story house, with a basement.
- I will have a fairly large open "closet" area under the stairs in
the basement, which is where I would plan on putting the servers,
switches, routers, patch panels, etc. It will be my "server closet".
- I will have at least 4-6 frontends, probably not for a couple years
since I only have 3 TVs right now, but I'm projecting for the future.
- I also want to have speakers in the ceilings, pretty much across the
house, for zoned audio - including outside/garage/etc. This is a
foreign concept to me, I've never personally used or been exposed to a
system like that other than maybe walking through a few houses in the
past that had them - but not personal experience.
- I'm considering external security cameras so I can play with
zoneminder and/or misterhouse (home automation). I don't know if I'll
actually install them right away, but I want to have the wiring ready
while it's "easy". I know several Home Automation things are going
wireless now, but I'm guessing even with wireless cameras, I'd have to
be concerned with power.
- What else am I missing? I'm sure there's other things audiophiles,
videophiles, home automation enthusiasts, myth users, etc have come up
with that are "must-haves", things they can't live without, or are
just really really cool.


Also, any good resources out there like websites or forums? Any good
books? I appreciate the feedback so far!

Thanks!
Matt
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beww at beww

Dec 1, 2008, 9:35 AM

Post #16 of 78 (2762 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc [In reply to]

On Monday 01 December 2008 10:26:43 Aaron L. wrote:
> Just signed up for this list......
>
> Never heard the vacuum w/conduit trick.....
>
> Awesome!
>
> -Aaron

That one's been around a long time. I think Greenlee even sells a kit
including a powerful vacuum cleaner, modified to look like a special-purpose
device.

Pushing a cone-shaped cup with a compressor is also common, but more
homeowners have vacuums than compressors.

--
beww
beww [at] beww
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beww at beww

Dec 1, 2008, 9:36 AM

Post #17 of 78 (2771 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc [In reply to]

On Monday 01 December 2008 10:32:45 Matt S. wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:58 AM, <jarpublic [at] gmail> wrote:
> >> And just as important as putting in the conduit - get plenty of pull
> >> string to put into each conduit. I had a friend put conduit in his
> >> house and he forgot to put in string, so the first cable pull ended up
> >> having to be forced from one end through to the other.
> >
> > I have a buddy that is an electrician. He taught me a nice trick if you
> > have conduit. Just put a plastic bag tied to a small string in one end
> > and then vacuum from the other end. It will pull the bag and the string
> > right through.
>
> These are all great tips. Keep them coming! I'm sure it'll help not
> only me, be a lot of other myth users.
>
> I will definitely make sure to run conduit with all the tips above.
> Also, I had already planned on running at least 3 cat5/6 lines to each
> room, 1 for phone, 1 for network, 1 for future/other: I also plan on
> running at least 1, but probably 2, coax runs to each room.
>
> As an FYI, here's some more high-level basics of the house and what I
> want to do:
>
> - 2 story house, with a basement.
> - I will have a fairly large open "closet" area under the stairs in
> the basement, which is where I would plan on putting the servers,
> switches, routers, patch panels, etc. It will be my "server closet".
> - I will have at least 4-6 frontends, probably not for a couple years
> since I only have 3 TVs right now, but I'm projecting for the future.
> - I also want to have speakers in the ceilings, pretty much across the
> house, for zoned audio - including outside/garage/etc. This is a
> foreign concept to me, I've never personally used or been exposed to a
> system like that other than maybe walking through a few houses in the
> past that had them - but not personal experience.
> - I'm considering external security cameras so I can play with
> zoneminder and/or misterhouse (home automation). I don't know if I'll
> actually install them right away, but I want to have the wiring ready
> while it's "easy". I know several Home Automation things are going
> wireless now, but I'm guessing even with wireless cameras, I'd have to
> be concerned with power.
> - What else am I missing? I'm sure there's other things audiophiles,
> videophiles, home automation enthusiasts, myth users, etc have come up
> with that are "must-haves", things they can't live without, or are
> just really really cool.
>
>
> Also, any good resources out there like websites or forums? Any good
> books? I appreciate the feedback so far!

Home Depot or Lowes, or outfits like that, sell books that are helpful for
things like this.

--
beww
beww [at] beww
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travis at tabbal

Dec 1, 2008, 10:06 AM

Post #18 of 78 (2779 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc [In reply to]

Tips from my install.....

If you can find some that's cheap enough, use the bundled cable. I used a
bundle with 2 Cat5e and 2 RG6 cables and it was REALLY nice to run a single
run to each room. You can do much the same with multiple spools of whatever
wire you want to run, but it's not quite as nice. I wanted 2 RG6 to each
room because I was using DirecTV at the time, and if you want a dual tuner
box, you need 2 cables. Newer sat systems are moving toward single run
setups, but I'm not sure how available those are. CATV and OTA work fine
with splitters.

Don't dedicate Cat5/6 lines to phone. Just run them all like a network
connection, complete with a patch panel. RJ11 phone cords work fine in RJ45
jacks, if you follow the color code, so leave the system open for
possibilities. I have all lines run into a single patch panel with labels
for what room they go to. If I need more detail, I have a toner. If I want
network, use a network patch cable, if I want phone, use an RJ11 phone cord.
We run a 4 handset cordless phone, so only 1 phone connection is required.
So I can use all those Cat5e jacks for ethernet, IR, audio, video, whatever.
So many things have transceivers for Cat5 wire these days.

I also did a patch panel for coax. You can find the panels on EBay. Nice to
have. Much cleaner.

I bought most of my stuff from deepsurplus.com. Nice prices, and good
quality stuff. The patch panels are much cheaper there and work just as well
as any other panel I've ever wired. If you're doing a lot of Cat6 jacks, I
recomend a tool that Home Depot sells called JackRapid. You can punchdown
all 8 wires and trim them at once. Saves a lot of time when you're doing a
big install. It needs the Leviton jacks that the home improvement stores
sell though, so don't buy them online if you want to use that tool.

Zoned audio. Good stuff. I still haven't installed all the speakers a year
later. I suggest the speaker enclosures because of that. Most homes use
blown insulation, and it will get into the speakers if you don't have some
kind of protection for them. If you use the installation enclosures, you can
do it all before the sheetrock goes up. Much easier. I bought my stuff from
htd.com. I have found it to work very well, and much less expensive than the
usuall sources. The new keypads are nice, wish they had those when I bought
mine. :) Decide what system you are going to use before wiring, because they
have different wiring requirements. HTD uses a CAT5 from the keypad to the
controller and speaker lines run direct from the amp to the speakers. Other
systems work differently, so you need to decide that early on and get the
wire in the walls for it.

Personally, I didn't bother with conduit. I have a rambler with a full
attic, so I had the builder install a 2 inch conduit from the basement to
the attic and I can get anywhere I need to from there. For the install I
didn't use it, I ran lines in my own area. There was a nice big run between
the basement and attic in a section of closet space that was oddly shaped. I
drilled a 6" hole in the plywood and ran my cables there. The contractor
checked it out and signed off on it, as did the inspector. So that conduit
is quite open. I ended up running some coax and cat5 in there for roof
mounted dish/antenna and wireless internet. The finished basement is now cut
off from new wires though, so if I were doing it again I might run some
conduit there. I did run a LOT of wire though, so I doubt I'll need more
anytime soon.

Damn this is a long post. :) I'll stop now. Good luck with the install.


jedi at mishnet

Dec 1, 2008, 11:58 AM

Post #19 of 78 (2762 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc [In reply to]

On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 08:31:57AM -0800, Yan Seiner wrote:
>
> On Mon, December 1, 2008 8:27 am, Matt S. wrote:
> > Hi! Sorry for the OT, but I figured that the topic ties into this
> > community pretty nicely
> >
> > Any advice, websites, books, etc out there for wiring a home during
> > construction? I'll be starting to build my house in the next month or
> > so from the ground up. I've pretty much got carte blanche on what I
> > can do, and I plan to do most of the wiring for cat6, coax, phone,
> > A/V, speaker, etc myself to gain some sweat equity, and I'm just a DIY
> > kinda guy - which I'm sure most of you on this list can relate to.
> >
> > So... Where should I start? I want to do it "right", and I want to
> > make sure that I'm futureproofing it as much as I can. I've got some
> > general ideas and thoughts, and I'm no stranger to making cables, I've
> > just never done a full home setup before from the ground up.
> >
>
> Don't run cable, run conduit then pull cable. A 1" conduit can probably

Regardless, you're probably going to need to get your own speciality
contractors for this. Normal subs are barely familiar with cat5. If you
get into anything more exotic than that they will not have any clue what
you are asking of them. They will screw it up.

I wouldn't expect any residential subs to know anything about conduit.
That's commercial level stuff.

[deletia]

I used structured cabling. After seeing what the subs did with the
cat5 used for the phone wiring, I figured that they need to be given a
cable that will resist abuse somewhat on it's own. It's of course a lot
less future proof than conduit but I it was at least something that the
standard subs could handle and something that didn't frighten the general.

A lot will depend on what you can get your general contractor to
agree to. Some builders are more flexible than others.
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trag at io

Dec 1, 2008, 12:10 PM

Post #20 of 78 (2760 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc [In reply to]

> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:49:49 +0100
> From: Fredrik Hallgarde <mythtv [at] tedde>

>>> Any advice, websites, books, etc out there for wiring a home during
>>> construction? I'll be starting to build my house in the next month or

>> Don't run cable, run conduit then pull cable. A 1" conduit can probably
>> hold 3-4 cables comfortably. Run it all to a central location where
>> your
>> hub/server will be with no more than 2 ells and you're golden.
>>
>> You can always pull cable later as needed.

> 3. wherever you put one cat 6, may I suggest you put 2?


I second this (#3) recommendation. I spent two weeks of vacation back in
'98 installing cat5 and coax in my house. There is over half a mile of
cable running through my walls and attic now. I have 37 cat5 ports
throughout the house, garage and attic.

Fortunately for me, I had a friend who installed (had installed by
contractor) network cable when his house was built and he immediately
found that he did not have enough ports. I learned from his mistake.

Anywhere you think you want one port, put two. Anywhere you think you
want two ports, put four. Anywhere you want coax, install cat6 next to
it. You may use a satellite system which needs to connect back to the
home office. You may change from coax delivery to LAN delivery later.
You can put coax and LAN ports on the same wall plate using modular jacks.
You can put up to six (or is it eight?) jacks on a wall plate, but I
would not go above four as the wires in the wall box get crowded.

Put a wall plate on at least two opposite walls in every room and put at
least two RJ45 jacks on every wall plate. Think about how common and
accessible electrical outlets are.

Cable and hardware are cheap compared to the cost of installation. It's
as easy to pull four cables as one.

Run two (or more) coax cables from your wiring closet to a panel on the
side of your house where the utilities come in. This way, if you get
cable TV they can just screw onto the F-connector you've installed and you
won't have the cable-guy drilling holes in your house. Install two ports
because if you get satellite you might need more than one incoming line
from dishes depending on how many tuners you want supported. Or you might
go crazy and want satellite *and* cable.

If you're interested in receiving broadcast TV, run some coax from your
wiring closet to the end of your attic closest to the local broadcast
antennas, so things will be convenient if you want to install an attic
antenna later.

If you run your incoming telephone line(s) to your wiring closet, you can
also use cat6 to run your phone. The RJ11 phone plugs fit into the center
four connectors on the RJ45 jacks. So, as long as lines are available,
anywhere you thought you wanted LAN access, you can also have a phone
extension, which increases the justification for running at least two
cables to every location.

Some of our cat5 is used for networking and other lines are used to put a
phone extension wherever it is convenient. All of our four-jack plates
have at least two in use and most have three or four in use.

More and more devices (besides traditional computers) want a LAN
connection. Our house is filling up with music clients (Roku SoundBridge)
which play music from our iTunes library. So having jacks scattered about
like electrical outlets is useful.

Be sure to allocate an environmentally controlled (air conditioned) space
for a wiring closet and provide it with plenty (or a big power strip) of
electrical outlets for the switch, router, modem, etc. Terminate all of
your cat6 wires in this closet at patch panels. Bring all your coax to
this room also. If you can, allocate space for a server and/or MythTV
back end in this room.

I am using the space above the shelf in the coat closet as my wiring
closet. It's not the most convenient, but it works, it was available, and
the house was built in 1970... I had to add the electrical outlets. But
it has no space for a server box (lower part of closet holds coats...) and
finding an air conditioned home for a box full of spinning hard drives is
a headache.

For the phone, I took another patch panel and wired six of the jacks
together. Then the incoming line patches into one of those jacks, and the
other five are available to be connected to extensions. We have two land
lines, so a 12 port patch panel provides 5 extensions each for both phone
lines.

As far as conduit goes, it is a nice idea, but don't let it stop you from
running plenty of cable now. It is never going to be easier to install
the cable you want than it is before they finish the house. Also, you
still must decide everywhere you want a wall panel/box even if you do run
conduit. So if you're going to have a box there anyway, why not run cable
to it? The cable is cheap compared to the labor of installation.

The conduit has limited capacity for cable. So you are probably better
off to run all the cable you install now outside of the conduit. So
install your current cables bare and run empty (except for pull strings)
conduit for future proofing.

You will probably need a punch down tool to connect your cable to the
jacks and patch panels (although I think there are newer style punchless
jacks?). Don't let the $50 - $100 cost throw you. You'll use the thing
like crazy while doing this job.

Build yourself a continuity tester out of a couple of RJ45 plugs and a
long length of cable with the ends opposite the plugs cut and stripped
(and an ohmmeter), so that after you make all the connections, you can
insure that the jack at the wall really does connect to the jack at the
patch panel. Some (small, I hope) number of your connections will be bad.
Leave a little cable slack so that you can redo the mistakes.

Alternatively, buy a commercial continuity tester, but if you already have
an ohmmeter, the above solution is very cheap.

If you're going to run much coax buy a 500 ft. spool. It's cheap (at
least mine was, at Graybar Electric in 1998: <$100) and the extra cable
can be used to make the cables that go between the wall and devices.

There are sites on the web which show which pattern to use when connecting
the wires in the cable to the jacks. I don't remember any of them
anymore, but they're not hard to find. There used to be a site called
Two Macs and a Printer which was very good. It was oriented toward
Macintoshes, but network cable is platform agnostic.

To reemphasize the "cable is cheap" mantra. I used all of two 1000 ft.
boxes and most of a third of cat5 cable. That's about $180 in cable--or
maybe three hours of labor if you were paying someone for installation.
How many hours of later installation does an extra 1000 feet of cable now
save you?

If you're planning to use wireless ethernet and only cell phones with no
land lines, then the above equations change. However having a wired house
is *nice*. I never must mess with configuring all the wireless ports for
proper security, etc. I don't have bandwidth issues. Of course, I
installed my cable before wireless really came on the scene so that may
just be cognitive dissonance talking. :-)

Jeff Walther


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thepigs at gmail

Dec 1, 2008, 1:06 PM

Post #21 of 78 (2747 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc [In reply to]

> If you're planning to use wireless ethernet and only cell phones with no
> land lines, then the above equations change. However having a wired house
> is *nice*. I never must mess with configuring all the wireless ports for
> proper security, etc. I don't have bandwidth issues. Of course, I
> installed my cable before wireless really came on the scene so that may
> just be cognitive dissonance talking. :-)

wired is best :) I haven't tried wifi N but G was no good for mythtv
(ie re-broadcasting dvb) unless you were in the same room. (but I was
using cheap gear).

to stay on topic. I'm in a rented place that's wired with two ports to
each room with a 'mini' patch panel in one of the closets.
So to each room you've got two ports, which is 8 pairs. 100baseT only
needs 2 pairs so I constructed 100baseT splitter cables to convert the
two ports into four. So you don't necessarily have to run more cables,
count how many pairs you're actually using... I think it all changes
once you go to 1000baseT though....
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adeffs.mythtv at gmail

Dec 1, 2008, 1:53 PM

Post #22 of 78 (2740 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc [In reply to]

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Yan Seiner <yan [at] seiner> wrote:
> On Mon, December 1, 2008 8:27 am, Matt S. wrote:
>> Hi! Sorry for the OT, but I figured that the topic ties into this
>> community pretty nicely
>>
>> Any advice, websites, books, etc out there for wiring a home during
>> construction? I'll be starting to build my house in the next month or
>> so from the ground up. I've pretty much got carte blanche on what I
>> can do, and I plan to do most of the wiring for cat6, coax, phone,
>> A/V, speaker, etc myself to gain some sweat equity, and I'm just a DIY
>> kinda guy - which I'm sure most of you on this list can relate to.
>>
>> So... Where should I start? I want to do it "right", and I want to
>> make sure that I'm futureproofing it as much as I can. I've got some
>> general ideas and thoughts, and I'm no stranger to making cables, I've
>> just never done a full home setup before from the ground up.
>>
>
> Don't run cable, run conduit then pull cable. A 1" conduit can probably
> hold 3-4 cables comfortably. Run it all to a central location where your
> hub/server will be with no more than 2 ells and you're golden.
>
> You can always pull cable later as needed.
>
> --Yan

Good advice, as a note, don't have more than 360deg worth of bends in
the conduit, it makes pulling cable a PITA, and technically it's
against code.

--
Steve
http://www.jobs-khakis-chicks.com/MythTV/
Before you ask, read the FAQ!
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions
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beww at beww

Dec 1, 2008, 1:56 PM

Post #23 of 78 (2737 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc [In reply to]

On Monday 01 December 2008 14:53:24 Steven Adeff wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Yan Seiner <yan [at] seiner> wrote:
> > On Mon, December 1, 2008 8:27 am, Matt S. wrote:
> >> Hi! Sorry for the OT, but I figured that the topic ties into this
> >> community pretty nicely
> >>
> >> Any advice, websites, books, etc out there for wiring a home during
> >> construction? I'll be starting to build my house in the next month or
> >> so from the ground up. I've pretty much got carte blanche on what I
> >> can do, and I plan to do most of the wiring for cat6, coax, phone,
> >> A/V, speaker, etc myself to gain some sweat equity, and I'm just a DIY
> >> kinda guy - which I'm sure most of you on this list can relate to.
> >>
> >> So... Where should I start? I want to do it "right", and I want to
> >> make sure that I'm futureproofing it as much as I can. I've got some
> >> general ideas and thoughts, and I'm no stranger to making cables, I've
> >> just never done a full home setup before from the ground up.
> >
> > Don't run cable, run conduit then pull cable. A 1" conduit can probably
> > hold 3-4 cables comfortably. Run it all to a central location where your
> > hub/server will be with no more than 2 ells and you're golden.
> >
> > You can always pull cable later as needed.
> >
> > --Yan
>
> Good advice, as a note, don't have more than 360deg worth of bends in
> the conduit, it makes pulling cable a PITA, and technically it's
> against code.

Ah, CODE, that's the word I was waiting for on this thread.

The codes also specify just how full you can stuff the conduit.

Also, make sure you do not try and mix high voltage and low voltage cables in
the same pipe.

The codes specify how the concuit is to be attached to the structure, what
type of conduit to use (rigid, semi-rigid, and various other types).

--
beww
beww [at] beww
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mythtv.org at sethdaniel

Dec 1, 2008, 2:00 PM

Post #24 of 78 (2737 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc [In reply to]

On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 02:56:21PM -0700, Brian Wood wrote:
> On Monday 01 December 2008 14:53:24 Steven Adeff wrote:
> > Good advice, as a note, don't have more than 360deg worth of bends in
> > the conduit, it makes pulling cable a PITA, and technically it's
> > against code.
>
> Ah, CODE, that's the word I was waiting for on this thread.
>
> The codes also specify just how full you can stuff the conduit.
>
> Also, make sure you do not try and mix high voltage and low voltage cables in
> the same pipe.
>
> The codes specify how the concuit is to be attached to the structure, what
> type of conduit to use (rigid, semi-rigid, and various other types).

For the complete novice where can one find this code? I assume we're
talking about some kind of national (US) organization that writes this
code. Are local codes typically more restrictive? Is there a site that
points out differences between local codes and any 'national' code? Or
how about a site that directs you to a document (or documents) that
describe local codes?

Thanks.

--
seth /\ sethdaniel.org
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yan at seiner

Dec 1, 2008, 2:03 PM

Post #25 of 78 (2739 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Wiring a new construction home for A/V, Ethernet, etc [In reply to]

On Mon, December 1, 2008 1:56 pm, Brian Wood wrote:
> On Monday 01 December 2008 14:53:24 Steven Adeff wrote:
>> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Yan Seiner <yan [at] seiner> wrote:
>> > On Mon, December 1, 2008 8:27 am, Matt S. wrote:
>> >> Hi! Sorry for the OT, but I figured that the topic ties into this
>> >> community pretty nicely
>> >>
>> >> Any advice, websites, books, etc out there for wiring a home during
>> >> construction? I'll be starting to build my house in the next month
>> or
>> >> so from the ground up. I've pretty much got carte blanche on what I
>> >> can do, and I plan to do most of the wiring for cat6, coax, phone,
>> >> A/V, speaker, etc myself to gain some sweat equity, and I'm just a
>> DIY
>> >> kinda guy - which I'm sure most of you on this list can relate to.
>> >>
>> >> So... Where should I start? I want to do it "right", and I want to
>> >> make sure that I'm futureproofing it as much as I can. I've got some
>> >> general ideas and thoughts, and I'm no stranger to making cables,
>> I've
>> >> just never done a full home setup before from the ground up.
>> >
>> > Don't run cable, run conduit then pull cable. A 1" conduit can
>> probably
>> > hold 3-4 cables comfortably. Run it all to a central location where
>> your
>> > hub/server will be with no more than 2 ells and you're golden.
>> >
>> > You can always pull cable later as needed.
>> >
>> > --Yan
>>
>> Good advice, as a note, don't have more than 360deg worth of bends in
>> the conduit, it makes pulling cable a PITA, and technically it's
>> against code.
>
> Ah, CODE, that's the word I was waiting for on this thread.
>
> The codes also specify just how full you can stuff the conduit.
>
> Also, make sure you do not try and mix high voltage and low voltage cables
> in
> the same pipe.
>
> The codes specify how the concuit is to be attached to the structure, what
> type of conduit to use (rigid, semi-rigid, and various other types).

IIRC code doesn't really apply to low voltage stuff, or it's a lot more
lenient if you're not running line voltage. Mostly for materials to make
sure it doesn't spew toxic gases when it burns. I think it mostly depends
on your codes inspector.

But yes, you cannot mix line and low voltage.

The other big advantage of conduit is that you're much less likely to get
a cut cable from a sheetrock nail.

--Yan

--
o__
,>/'_ o__
(_)\(_) ,>/'_ o__
Yan Seiner (_)\(_) ,>/'_ o__
Personal Trainer (_)\(_) ,>/'_ o__
Professional Engineer (_)\(_) ,>/'_
Who says engineers have to be pencil necked geeks? (_)\(_)

You are an adult when you realize that everyone's an idiot sometimes. You
are wise when you include yourself.


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