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Just how great can VDPAU be?

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greg at gregandeva

Nov 20, 2008, 2:31 PM

Post #26 of 77 (6551 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how great can VDPAU be? [In reply to]

On Fri, 2008-11-21 at 11:20 +1300, Nick Rout wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 7:50 AM, Matt Emmott <memmott [at] gmail> wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=vdpau (Sorry, I couldn't resist using
> > this :-) ) - The first link states that the earliest driver version
> > supporting VDPAU is180.06
> >
>
> thats almost as good as
>
> http://www.justfuckinggoogleit.com/search.pl?query=vdpau

The second one works better because it doesn't require Javascript.

--Greg

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florin at andrei

Nov 20, 2008, 3:31 PM

Post #27 of 77 (6542 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how great can VDPAU be? [In reply to]

Greg Estabrooks wrote:
>
> I have an 8400 and 8500 (both work and are tested with the
> VDPAU mplayer patches) and both are fanless :)

I've a 9600 GT overclocked from factory, fanless. :-)

Throw it at someone, or drop it on your foot, and you *will* inflict
serious injury.

--
Florin Andrei

http://florin.myip.org/
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jedi at mishnet

Nov 20, 2008, 3:33 PM

Post #28 of 77 (6536 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how great can VDPAU be? [In reply to]

On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 05:08:09PM -0500, VCRAddict wrote:
> At 03:34 PM 11/20/08 -0600, jedi wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 04:05:42PM -0500, VCRAddict wrote:
> >
> [snip]
> > >
> > > OK, now let's make the challenge a little stiffer... Any for AGP?
> >
> > Howabout just go for a motherboard with the 8x00 onboard and do
> > a mobo swap?
>
>
> Yahbut... I already have several "leftover" mobos with PCI/AGP slots
> which, with the help of VDPAU, would presumably make reasonable entry-level
> FE/BE systems (I'm thinking friends & relatives) for next-to-zero cost if
> the right video card(s) could be found.

With the right case, I could replace 2 minis and an atv for the price
of another mini... and have gear that would be better suited to the purpose
than the fastest available mini.
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lindsay.mathieson at gmail

Nov 20, 2008, 4:59 PM

Post #29 of 77 (6521 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how great can VDPAU be? [In reply to]

I've been kicking myself over this - could have got a mobo with onboard GF8200 and HDMI out, instead I got a 7050 mobo with DVI out because it was supported by XvMC. Now I never use XvMC because my CPU can cope with MPEG2 fine. But I'd dearly love to test this with some true HD videos ...

--
Lindsay Mathieson
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MythTV_01 at appropriate-tech

Nov 20, 2008, 9:16 PM

Post #30 of 77 (6506 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how great can VDPAU be? [In reply to]

At 05:33 PM 11/20/08 -0600, jedi wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 05:08:09PM -0500, VCRAddict wrote:
[snip]
> >
> > Yahbut... I already have several "leftover" mobos with PCI/AGP slots
> > which, with the help of VDPAU, would presumably make reasonable entry-
> > level FE/BE systems (I'm thinking friends & relatives) for next-to-zero
> > cost if the right video card(s) could be found.
>
> With the right case, I could replace 2 minis and an atv for the price
> of another mini... and have gear that would be better suited to the purpose
> than the fastest available mini.

I may just be suffering an excess of blood in my caffeine stream; but I've
re-read that at least three times, and I still don't understand your
analogy...

What do small German/nee-Brittish sedans and off-road toys have to do with
MythTV?

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mythtv at bektchiev

Nov 20, 2008, 9:37 PM

Post #31 of 77 (6502 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how great can VDPAU be? [In reply to]

On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 9:16 PM, VCRAddict
<MythTV_01 [at] appropriate-tech> wrote:
> At 05:33 PM 11/20/08 -0600, jedi wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 05:08:09PM -0500, VCRAddict wrote:
[snip]
> >
> > With the right case, I could replace 2 minis and an atv for the price
> > of another mini... and have gear that would be better suited to the purpose
> > than the fastest available mini.
>
> I may just be suffering an excess of blood in my caffeine stream; but I've
> re-read that at least three times, and I still don't understand your
> analogy...
>
> What do small German/nee-Brittish sedans and off-road toys have to do with
> MythTV?

He probably meant Mac mini and AppleTV...

--dejan
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shaun at lowry

Nov 21, 2008, 1:52 AM

Post #32 of 77 (6502 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how great can VDPAU be? [In reply to]

Nicolas Will wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-11-20 at 14:00 -0500, R. G. Newbury wrote:
>
>> Now I gotta go look for a cheap 8300 or 8500 serires nvidia
>> card?. Are the fans on those things controllable? Quiet?
>>
>
> UK - http://www.lambda-tek.com/componentshop/index.pl?prodID=1486704
>
> US - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121240
>
> cheap and fan-less
>
> Nico
>
Nice. Anyone seen a low-profile fanless card?

Shaun.
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jaw1959 at gmail

Nov 21, 2008, 3:51 AM

Post #33 of 77 (6506 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how great can VDPAU be? [In reply to]

On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 12:37 AM, Deyan <mythtv [at] bektchiev> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 9:16 PM, VCRAddict
> <MythTV_01 [at] appropriate-tech> wrote:
> > At 05:33 PM 11/20/08 -0600, jedi wrote:
> > > On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 05:08:09PM -0500, VCRAddict wrote:
> [snip]
> > >
> > > With the right case, I could replace 2 minis and an atv for the
> price
> > > of another mini... and have gear that would be better suited to the
> purpose
> > > than the fastest available mini.
> >
> > I may just be suffering an excess of blood in my caffeine stream; but
> I've
> > re-read that at least three times, and I still don't understand your
> > analogy...
> >
> > What do small German/nee-Brittish sedans and off-road toys have to do
> with
> > MythTV?
>
> He probably meant Mac mini and AppleTV...
>
> --dejan
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

Thanks for clearing that up.

james at ultratans

Nov 21, 2008, 4:45 AM

Post #34 of 77 (6487 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how great can VDPAU be? [In reply to]

On Fri, 2008-11-21 at 09:52 +0000, Shaun Lowry wrote:
> Nicolas Will wrote:
> > On Thu, 2008-11-20 at 14:00 -0500, R. G. Newbury wrote:
> >
> >> Now I gotta go look for a cheap 8300 or 8500 serires nvidia
> >> card?. Are the fans on those things controllable? Quiet?
> >>
> >
> > UK - http://www.lambda-tek.com/componentshop/index.pl?prodID=1486704
> >
> > US - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121240
> >
> > cheap and fan-less
> >
> > Nico
> >
> Nice. Anyone seen a low-profile fanless card?
>
> Shaun.

I had some trouble finding one with component and s-video out. In the
end I made one. 8400GS fanless and low profile with
s-video/composite/component and dvi out:

http://jamesanddiana.com/blog/?p=9

I did have to modify it, but it runs cooler than my full height factory
fanless 8400GS idles. :) Total cost was about $31. ($26 for the card, $5
for 5 heatsinks to try)

Cheers,
James

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jedi at mishnet

Nov 21, 2008, 6:52 AM

Post #35 of 77 (6478 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how great can VDPAU be? [In reply to]

On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 12:16:52AM -0500, VCRAddict wrote:
> At 05:33 PM 11/20/08 -0600, jedi wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 05:08:09PM -0500, VCRAddict wrote:
> [snip]
> > >
> > > Yahbut... I already have several "leftover" mobos with PCI/AGP slots
> > > which, with the help of VDPAU, would presumably make reasonable entry-
> > > level FE/BE systems (I'm thinking friends & relatives) for next-to-zero
> > > cost if the right video card(s) could be found.
> >
> > With the right case, I could replace 2 minis and an atv for the price
> > of another mini... and have gear that would be better suited to the purpose
> > than the fastest available mini.
>
> I may just be suffering an excess of blood in my caffeine stream; but I've
> re-read that at least three times, and I still don't understand your
> analogy...
>
> What do small German/nee-Brittish sedans and off-road toys have to do with
> MythTV?

I'm talking about Apple hardware.

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raymond at wagnerrp

Nov 21, 2008, 9:20 AM

Post #36 of 77 (6456 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how great can VDPAU be? [In reply to]

James Crow wrote:
> I had some trouble finding one with component and s-video out. In the
> end I made one.

Every component-capable video card I have ever seen has supported also
s-video. It just uses a breakout cable that plugs into a modified
s-video port for the component output.
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gaberubin at gmail

Nov 21, 2008, 9:59 AM

Post #37 of 77 (6465 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how great can VDPAU be? [In reply to]

On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 9:20 AM, Raymond Wagner <raymond [at] wagnerrp> wrote:
> James Crow wrote:
>> I had some trouble finding one with component and s-video out. In the
>> end I made one.
>
> Every component-capable video card I have ever seen has supported also
> s-video. It just uses a breakout cable that plugs into a modified
> s-video port for the component output.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

So for us folks that small frontends with a single (and already used)
PCI slot and AGP for video...has anyone found an AGP card that can
take advantage of this? (Google and various online site have yielded
0 results for me so far).
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MythTV_01 at appropriate-tech

Nov 21, 2008, 10:03 AM

Post #38 of 77 (6467 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how great can VDPAU be? [In reply to]

At 12:20 PM 11/21/08 -0500, Raymond Wagner wrote:
>
[snip]
>
> Every component-capable video card I have ever seen has supported also
> s-video. It just uses a breakout cable that plugs into a modified
> s-video port for the component output.

That's not really a "modified s-video port". Component Video *cannot* be
derived from S-Video, at least not with something so simple as a cable.

You are presumably referring to the 9-pin mini-DIN connectors sometimes
found on the backplanes of video cards, to which a (proprietary) "dongle"
can be connected. The "dongle" provides the actual S-Video and Component
Video connections. But this is NOT an "S-Video" connector of any stripe.
It's merely a convenient connector design for the manufacturer to use --
small enough to fit where it needs to be, yet also providing a sufficient
pin-count to bring *both* the S-Video and Component Video signals (which
are not at all the same thing) out to the exteriaor of the case.

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james at ultratans

Nov 21, 2008, 10:17 AM

Post #39 of 77 (6459 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how great can VDPAU be? [In reply to]

On Fri, 2008-11-21 at 12:20 -0500, Raymond Wagner wrote:
> James Crow wrote:
> > I had some trouble finding one with component and s-video out. In the
> > end I made one.
>
> Every component-capable video card I have ever seen has supported also
> s-video. It just uses a breakout cable that plugs into a modified
> s-video port for the component output.

Some of the cards I have did not come with a cable supporting s-video or
composite, only component. Perhaps I would just need a different cable,
but I did not explore that option.

I am glad that I did get the 8400 series card. I just check NewEgg and
the only low profile ready, fanless, component/s-video out card I saw
was a 7200GS and would not work with the new video API. Guess I just
lucked out with the card I bought.

Cheers,
James

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raymond at wagnerrp

Nov 21, 2008, 11:03 AM

Post #40 of 77 (6448 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how great can VDPAU be? [In reply to]

VCRAddict wrote:
> At 12:20 PM 11/21/08 -0500, Raymond Wagner wrote:
> >
> [snip]
> >
> > Every component-capable video card I have ever seen has supported also
> > s-video. It just uses a breakout cable that plugs into a modified
> > s-video port for the component output.
>
> That's not really a "modified s-video port". Component Video *cannot* be
> derived from S-Video, at least not with something so simple as a cable.
>
> You are presumably referring to the 9-pin mini-DIN connectors sometimes
> found on the backplanes of video cards, to which a (proprietary) "dongle"
> can be connected. The "dongle" provides the actual S-Video and Component
> Video connections. But this is NOT an "S-Video" connector of any stripe.
> It's merely a convenient connector design for the manufacturer to use --
> small enough to fit where it needs to be, yet also providing a sufficient
> pin-count to bring *both* the S-Video and Component Video signals (which
> are not at all the same thing) out to the exteriaor of the case.
>
>
Except it IS an s-video connector. I can plug an s-video cable directly
into it, and it displays just fine. It is modified in that it has extra
pins to provide extra capability to a breakout cable. Both component
capable nVidia cards I have owned operate this way, as well as another
three at work.

My old ATI AIW had a 9-pin connector, but s-video was still one of the
formats supported on the breakout cable.
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nico at youplala

Nov 21, 2008, 11:38 AM

Post #41 of 77 (6451 views)
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Re: Just how great can VDPAU be? [In reply to]

On Fri, 2008-11-21 at 09:59 -0800, Gabe Rubin wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 9:20 AM, Raymond Wagner <raymond [at] wagnerrp>
> wrote:
> > James Crow wrote:
> >> I had some trouble finding one with component and s-video out. In
> the
> >> end I made one.
> >
> > Every component-capable video card I have ever seen has supported
> also
> > s-video. It just uses a breakout cable that plugs into a modified
> > s-video port for the component output.
> > _______________________________________________
> > mythtv-users mailing list
> > mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> > http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> >
>
> So for us folks that small frontends with a single (and already used)
> PCI slot and AGP for video...has anyone found an AGP card that can
> take advantage of this? (Google and various online site have yielded
> 0 results for me so far).

There used to be PCIe slot to AGP chips bridge chips in the early days
of PCIe, but never the reverse.

My guess is that you are out of luck with AGP these days, as chips don't
have the circuitry for it anymore.

Now, anybody seen a recent NVIDIA card on VESA Local Bus?

;o)

Nico

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david at istwok

Nov 25, 2008, 9:24 AM

Post #42 of 77 (6250 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how great can VDPAU be? [In reply to]

On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 06:21:48PM +0800, Mark Kendall wrote:
> OK - so I've been spending far too much time playing with VDPAU today
> to resist responding :)
>
> As I type I've got mythtv playing live tv using vdpau for playback.
> Double rate temporal deinterlacer, standard def MPEG2 source, (mostly)
> working osd, core2due 2.4gz, 8800GT and 1GB ram. Current utilisation
> hovers at around 1-2%.

Hi Mark,

Are you using Isaac's patch, your own patch or something else? Isaac
said OSD wasn't working in his first patch so I suspect you're using a
later version or doing your own thing.

Does time-stretching work with VDPAU? I thought I read something
about VDPAU controlling the timing of presented frames so I'm
concerned it might not work with time-stretching.

David
--
David Engel
david [at] istwok
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mark.kendall at gmail

Nov 25, 2008, 5:22 PM

Post #43 of 77 (6237 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how great can VDPAU be? [In reply to]

2008/11/26 David Engel <david [at] istwok>:
> On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 06:21:48PM +0800, Mark Kendall wrote:
> Are you using Isaac's patch, your own patch or something else? Isaac
> said OSD wasn't working in his first patch so I suspect you're using a
> later version or doing your own thing.

It's a modified version of Isaac's original patch. OSD, deinterlacing,
PiP all implemented - though it looks like there are issues with VDPAU
(i.e. not mythtv or mplayer) that are causing problems.

> Does time-stretching work with VDPAU? I thought I read something
> about VDPAU controlling the timing of presented frames so I'm
> concerned it might not work with time-stretching.

Currently, time-stretch is fine (and pretty impressive on hidef
h264!). Isaac is interested in looking into extending the use of the
vdpau presentation queue and adding it to the vertical sync code -
though I can't imagine anyone is going to implement it in such a way
that it breaks time stretch (or anything else).

Regards

Mark
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mrrooster at gmail

Nov 26, 2008, 1:26 AM

Post #44 of 77 (6237 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how great can VDPAU be? [In reply to]

2008/11/21 Nicolas Will <nico [at] youplala>

> On Fri, 2008-11-21 at 09:59 -0800, Gabe Rubin wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 9:20 AM, Raymond Wagner <raymond [at] wagnerrp>
> [snip]
> >
> > So for us folks that small frontends with a single (and already used)
> > PCI slot and AGP for video...has anyone found an AGP card that can
> > take advantage of this? (Google and various online site have yielded
> > 0 results for me so far).
>
> There used to be PCIe slot to AGP chips bridge chips in the early days
> of PCIe, but never the reverse.
>

There are PCIe to AGP bridge chips out there. That's how the first AGP
Geforcce 6600GTs worked, the chip was only a PCIe part, bridged for AGP.
(This was not true of the faster 6800 AGP parts).

>
> My guess is that you are out of luck with AGP these days, as chips don't
> have the circuitry for it anymore.
>

There are rumours of nVidia releasing the 8000 series as an AGP card, but as
far as I can tell it's not been released yet. The latest AGP nVidia cards I
can find are 7 series. Good enough for myth, but not good enough for the
VDPAU stuff. :(

>
> Now, anybody seen a recent NVIDIA card on VESA Local Bus?
>

Ah, VLB, the AMR slot of the mid 90s. :)

Ian

myth at robinhill

Nov 26, 2008, 1:35 AM

Post #45 of 77 (6254 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how great can VDPAU be? [In reply to]

On Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 09:26:11AM +0000, Ian Clark wrote:

> 2008/11/21 Nicolas Will <nico [at] youplala>
>
> > On Fri, 2008-11-21 at 09:59 -0800, Gabe Rubin wrote:
> > There used to be PCIe slot to AGP chips bridge chips in the early days
> > of PCIe, but never the reverse.
> >
> There are PCIe to AGP bridge chips out there. That's how the first AGP
> Geforcce 6600GTs worked, the chip was only a PCIe part, bridged for AGP.
> (This was not true of the faster 6800 AGP parts).
>
Surely that would be PCI at the time, not PCIe?

Cheers,
Robin
--
___
( ' } | Robin Hill <myth [at] robinhill> |
/ / ) | Little Jim says .... |
// !! | "He fallen in de water !!" |

mrrooster at gmail

Nov 26, 2008, 1:58 AM

Post #46 of 77 (6273 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how great can VDPAU be? [In reply to]

2008/11/26 Robin Hill <myth [at] robinhill>

> On Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 09:26:11AM +0000, Ian Clark wrote:
>
> > 2008/11/21 Nicolas Will <nico [at] youplala>
> [snip]
> > >
> > There are PCIe to AGP bridge chips out there. That's how the first AGP
> > Geforcce 6600GTs worked, the chip was only a PCIe part, bridged for AGP.
> > (This was not true of the faster 6800 AGP parts).
> >
> Surely that would be PCI at the time, not PCIe?
>

No, it was in the early days of PCIe, when AGP was still very prominent. The
6800 series (NV 40 series if my memory serves me well) were AGP or AGP
bridged to PCIe, however the 6600, released later, were PCIe parts, that
were briged back to AGP when required. (It was weird seing my AGP card
reported as PCIe x8!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6600GT (The bit at the bottom deals with the
NV43)

I feel old now. :)

Ian

msc at antzsystem

Nov 26, 2008, 4:11 PM

Post #47 of 77 (6188 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how great can VDPAU be? [In reply to]

Am Mittwoch, 26. November 2008 schrieb Mark Kendall:
> 2008/11/26 David Engel <david [at] istwok>:
> > On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 06:21:48PM +0800, Mark Kendall wrote:
> > Are you using Isaac's patch, your own patch or something else?
> > Isaac said OSD wasn't working in his first patch so I suspect
> > you're using a later version or doing your own thing.
>
> It's a modified version of Isaac's original patch. OSD,
> deinterlacing, PiP all implemented - though it looks like there are
> issues with VDPAU (i.e. not mythtv or mplayer) that are causing
> problems.
>
> > Does time-stretching work with VDPAU? I thought I read something
> > about VDPAU controlling the timing of presented frames so I'm
> > concerned it might not work with time-stretching.
>
> Currently, time-stretch is fine (and pretty impressive on hidef
> h264!). Isaac is interested in looking into extending the use of the
> vdpau presentation queue and adding it to the vertical sync code -
> though I can't imagine anyone is going to implement it in such a way
> that it breaks time stretch (or anything else).

Anyone tried some graphic card benchmarking (not cpu-usage)?
Was an 8200 (or comparable) onboard chipset enough for really high
bitrate h264 full-hd streams, or possible two of them (pip)?
If i understand right: with VDPAU _everything_ will be done on the
graphic card, therefore the cpu can't help if the card was to slow for
processing the video cause high bitrate/resolution/..?

--
Markus Schulz
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newbury at mandamus

Nov 27, 2008, 4:24 PM

Post #48 of 77 (6108 views)
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Re: Just how great can VDPAU be? [In reply to]

David Engel wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 06:21:48PM +0800, Mark Kendall wrote:
>> OK - so I've been spending far too much time playing with VDPAU today
>> to resist responding :)
>>
>> As I type I've got mythtv playing live tv using vdpau for playback.
>> Double rate temporal deinterlacer, standard def MPEG2 source, (mostly)
>> working osd, core2due 2.4gz, 8800GT and 1GB ram. Current utilisation
>> hovers at around 1-2%.
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> Are you using Isaac's patch, your own patch or something else?

Will someone please reveal where the patches for mythtv might possibly
be found?

Geoff

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myth at dermanouelian

Nov 27, 2008, 4:54 PM

Post #49 of 77 (6102 views)
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Re: Just how great can VDPAU be? [In reply to]

On Nov 27, 2008, at 4:24 PM, R. G. Newbury wrote:

> David Engel wrote:
>> On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 06:21:48PM +0800, Mark Kendall wrote:
>>> OK - so I've been spending far too much time playing with VDPAU
>>> today
>>> to resist responding :)
>>>
>>> As I type I've got mythtv playing live tv using vdpau for playback.
>>> Double rate temporal deinterlacer, standard def MPEG2 source,
>>> (mostly)
>>> working osd, core2due 2.4gz, 8800GT and 1GB ram. Current utilisation
>>> hovers at around 1-2%.
>>
>> Hi Mark,
>>
>> Are you using Isaac's patch, your own patch or something else?
>
> Will someone please reveal where the patches for mythtv might possibly
> be found?

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/358020#358020

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newbury at mandamus

Nov 28, 2008, 11:50 AM

Post #50 of 77 (6076 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how great can VDPAU be? [In reply to]

Brad DerManouelian wrote:
> On Nov 27, 2008, at 4:24 PM, R. G. Newbury wrote:

>>> Are you using Isaac's patch, your own patch or something else?
>> Will someone please reveal where the patches for mythtv might possibly
>> be found?
>
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/358020#358020

Thank you Brad. I missed the attachment on Isaac's original post, but
it's nicely attached to the thread in gossamer...
Geoff

--
Please let me know if anything I say offends you.
I may wish to offend you again in the future.

Tux says: "Be regular. Eat cron flakes."
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