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SVN removal howto

 

 

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mwhutchinson at mac

Feb 20, 2008, 12:27 PM

Post #1 of 28 (1256 views)
Permalink
SVN removal howto

I want to go back to stable RPMS for a bit. How is the best way to
remove SVN?
make uninstall? Then remove the database?
I am looking for a total uninstall.

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mtdean at thirdcontact

Feb 20, 2008, 5:59 PM

Post #2 of 28 (1213 views)
Permalink
Re: SVN removal howto [In reply to]

On 02/20/2008 03:27 PM, Mark Hutchinson wrote:
> I want to go back to stable RPMS for a bit. How is the best way to
> remove SVN?
> make uninstall? Then remove the database?
> I am looking for a total uninstall.

Assuming you're using SVN-trunk-based packages, the best way is to wait
a little bit and upgrade to 0.21 stable RPM's. If you're using a
source-based install in an otherwise-package-managed distro, I won't say
what I think is the best way (rhymes with doormat ;).

Mike
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mark at onnow

Feb 20, 2008, 6:11 PM

Post #3 of 28 (1219 views)
Permalink
Re: SVN removal howto [In reply to]

On 20-Feb-08, at 6:59 PM, Michael T. Dean wrote:

> On 02/20/2008 03:27 PM, Mark Hutchinson wrote:
>> I want to go back to stable RPMS for a bit. How is the best way to
>> remove SVN?
>> make uninstall? Then remove the database?
>> I am looking for a total uninstall.
>
> Assuming you're using SVN-trunk-based packages, the best way is to
> wait
> a little bit and upgrade to 0.21 stable RPM's. If you're using a
> source-based install in an otherwise-package-managed distro, I won't
> say
> what I think is the best way (rhymes with doormat ;).
>
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
When should we expect .21 to be released? Pretty soon?
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knowledgejunkie at gmail

Feb 21, 2008, 4:55 AM

Post #4 of 28 (1204 views)
Permalink
Re: SVN removal howto [In reply to]

On 21/02/2008, Mark Hutchinson <mark[at]onnow.net> wrote:

> When should we expect .21 to be released? Pretty soon?

Watch http://cvs.mythtv.org/trac/roadmap and wait for active tickets == 0 :)

--
Nick Morrott

MythTV Official wiki:
http://mythtv.org/wiki/
MythTV users list archive:
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users

"An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest." - Benjamin Franklin
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drescherjm at gmail

Feb 21, 2008, 5:38 AM

Post #5 of 28 (1203 views)
Permalink
Re: SVN removal howto [In reply to]

On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Mark Hutchinson <mwhutchinson[at]mac.com> wrote:
> I want to go back to stable RPMS for a bit. How is the best way to
> remove SVN?
> make uninstall? Then remove the database?
> I am looking for a total uninstall.
>
Being that I am a windows software developer, I have a question.

Shouldn't the current 0.21 SVN be considered nearly stable being that
at whatever point in time a release is built it will be a svn snapshot
from the current trunk?
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dsr-myth at tao

Feb 21, 2008, 6:37 AM

Post #6 of 28 (1197 views)
Permalink
Re: SVN removal howto [In reply to]

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 08:38:28AM -0500, John Drescher wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Mark Hutchinson <mwhutchinson[at]mac.com> wrote:
> > I want to go back to stable RPMS for a bit. How is the best way to
> > remove SVN?
> > make uninstall? Then remove the database?
> > I am looking for a total uninstall.
> >
> Being that I am a windows software developer, I have a question.
>
> Shouldn't the current 0.21 SVN be considered nearly stable being that
> at whatever point in time a release is built it will be a svn snapshot
> from the current trunk?

No.

The activity in the last two weeks has been tremendous, with
devs deciding to punt features into 0.22 or unknown, commits for
bugs which have been tested, commits for bugs which are being
introduced by other commits, and so forth. You can't even swear
that a given SVN version will compile on all platforms.

Wait. The increased activity suggests that it won't be very much
longer.

-dsr-


--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
subversive content by DHS, and is
believed to be treasonous Commie propaganda.
http://tao.merseine.nu/~dsr/eula.html is hereby incorporated by reference.
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jaw1959 at gmail

Feb 21, 2008, 6:51 AM

Post #7 of 28 (1195 views)
Permalink
Re: SVN removal howto [In reply to]

If someone more knowledgeable than me were to guess, are we talking days,
weeks, or months as the definition of not "very much longer?"

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 9:37 AM, Dan Ritter <dsr-myth[at]tao.merseine.nu>
wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 08:38:28AM -0500, John Drescher wrote:
> > On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Mark Hutchinson <mwhutchinson[at]mac.com>
> wrote:
> > > I want to go back to stable RPMS for a bit. How is the best way to
> > > remove SVN?
> > > make uninstall? Then remove the database?
> > > I am looking for a total uninstall.
> > >
> > Being that I am a windows software developer, I have a question.
> >
> > Shouldn't the current 0.21 SVN be considered nearly stable being that
> > at whatever point in time a release is built it will be a svn snapshot
> > from the current trunk?
>
> No.
>
> The activity in the last two weeks has been tremendous, with
> devs deciding to punt features into 0.22 or unknown, commits for
> bugs which have been tested, commits for bugs which are being
> introduced by other commits, and so forth. You can't even swear
> that a given SVN version will compile on all platforms.
>
> Wait. The increased activity suggests that it won't be very much
> longer.
>
> -dsr-
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> subversive content by DHS, and is
> believed to be treasonous Commie propaganda.
> http://tao.merseine.nu/~dsr/eula.html<http://tao.merseine.nu/%7Edsr/eula.html>is hereby incorporated by reference.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>


mythtv-users at vankets

Feb 21, 2008, 7:10 AM

Post #8 of 28 (1196 views)
Permalink
Re: SVN removal howto [In reply to]

That question is impossible to answer. Check out the bug list and make a
guess yourself.

As with most OSS projects wihtout a release cycle: it will be done when
it's done.
Be patient or dive in yourself. ;-)

Josh White wrote:
> If someone more knowledgeable than me were to guess, are we talking
> days, weeks, or months as the definition of not "very much longer?"
>
> On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 9:37 AM, Dan Ritter <dsr-myth[at]tao.merseine.nu
> <mailto:dsr-myth[at]tao.merseine.nu>> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 08:38:28AM -0500, John Drescher wrote:
> > On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Mark Hutchinson
> <mwhutchinson[at]mac.com <mailto:mwhutchinson[at]mac.com>> wrote:
> > > I want to go back to stable RPMS for a bit. How is the best
> way to
> > > remove SVN?
> > > make uninstall? Then remove the database?
> > > I am looking for a total uninstall.
> > >
> > Being that I am a windows software developer, I have a question.
> >
> > Shouldn't the current 0.21 SVN be considered nearly stable being
> that
> > at whatever point in time a release is built it will be a svn
> snapshot
> > from the current trunk?
>
> No.
>
> The activity in the last two weeks has been tremendous, with
> devs deciding to punt features into 0.22 or unknown, commits for
> bugs which have been tested, commits for bugs which are being
> introduced by other commits, and so forth. You can't even swear
> that a given SVN version will compile on all platforms.
>
> Wait. The increased activity suggests that it won't be very much
> longer.
>
> -dsr-
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> subversive content by DHS, and is
> believed to be treasonous Commie propaganda.
> http://tao.merseine.nu/~dsr/eula.html
> <http://tao.merseine.nu/%7Edsr/eula.html> is hereby incorporated
> by reference.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org <mailto:mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org>
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

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jaw1959 at gmail

Feb 21, 2008, 7:48 AM

Post #9 of 28 (1201 views)
Permalink
Re: SVN removal howto [In reply to]

If you read it again, my question is far from impossible to answer.

Someone who has seen the transition from .17 to .18, .18 to .19, .19 to
.20...could conceivably have a better idea of when they started hearing
"it's close" on the discussion group to "it's here" based on how the
transitions from the last major versions to the next went.

I'm certainly not looking for someone to base their careers or lives on how
accurate their guess is, but the general order of magnitude of the time till
release shouldn't be out of the question for someone with more historical
knowledge. I'm a bit of a Linux noob and I can't code to save my life
(compiling anything from source is still a challenge for me).

I've been involved with Myth for about 4 months now. Someone more
knowledgeable would have stronger historical basis, and that's probably
someone who's been involved with this discussion group longer than I, and
from all that they'd be able to generate a better guess than I would. It's
someone like that who I'm asking. If you know nothing more than that,
please simply ignore the post and wait for someone qualified to answer,
rather than telling me its impossible.

I didn't ask for lottery numbers.

From my background, I feel confident in saying will be out somewhere between
1 day to 1 year from now. I expect someone more knowledgeable can do
better. If you ask a stock broker whether a stock is at its peak, they can
say "I don't think so" or "I think it will be in the next few weeks" or "I
think it peaked last month." Of course, it's impossible to say with 100%
certainty, but I thinks it's a decent analogy. Sure, the broker could tell
someone to "download the historical data and make your own guess," but that
would be a waste of the work the stock broker already did. As you said,
this is an OSS project. The idea is to share knowledge and not to reinvent
the wheel. I could start learning how to program and come out with my on
PVR software package, but that would be silly.

The reason I ask is I plan to do some setup changes and I'd rather wait till
the next release to do that. If it's a matter of days or weeks, I'll hold
off. If it's a matter of months, I'll go ahead and make my changes now.
I'm not trying to be impatient, and I'm not suggesting it's taking too
long. I'm simply asking for some guidance from the more experienced people
in the community.

So does anyone feel confident enough to venture a guess?


On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 10:10 AM, Bert Van Kets <mythtv-users[at]vankets.com>
wrote:

> That question is impossible to answer. Check out the bug list and make a
> guess yourself.
>
> As with most OSS projects wihtout a release cycle: it will be done when
> it's done.
> Be patient or dive in yourself. ;-)
>
> Josh White wrote:
> > If someone more knowledgeable than me were to guess, are we talking
> > days, weeks, or months as the definition of not "very much longer?"
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 9:37 AM, Dan Ritter <dsr-myth[at]tao.merseine.nu
> > <mailto:dsr-myth[at]tao.merseine.nu>> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 08:38:28AM -0500, John Drescher wrote:
> > > On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Mark Hutchinson
> > <mwhutchinson[at]mac.com <mailto:mwhutchinson[at]mac.com>> wrote:
> > > > I want to go back to stable RPMS for a bit. How is the best
> > way to
> > > > remove SVN?
> > > > make uninstall? Then remove the database?
> > > > I am looking for a total uninstall.
> > > >
> > > Being that I am a windows software developer, I have a question.
> > >
> > > Shouldn't the current 0.21 SVN be considered nearly stable being
> > that
> > > at whatever point in time a release is built it will be a svn
> > snapshot
> > > from the current trunk?
> >
> > No.
> >
> > The activity in the last two weeks has been tremendous, with
> > devs deciding to punt features into 0.22 or unknown, commits for
> > bugs which have been tested, commits for bugs which are being
> > introduced by other commits, and so forth. You can't even swear
> > that a given SVN version will compile on all platforms.
> >
> > Wait. The increased activity suggests that it won't be very much
> > longer.
> >
> > -dsr-
> >
> >
> > --
> > This message has been scanned for viruses and
> > subversive content by DHS, and is
> > believed to be treasonous Commie propaganda.
> > http://tao.merseine.nu/~dsr/eula.html<http://tao.merseine.nu/%7Edsr/eula.html>
> > <http://tao.merseine.nu/%7Edsr/eula.html> is hereby incorporated
> > by reference.
> > _______________________________________________
> > mythtv-users mailing list
> > mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org <mailto:mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org>
> > http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mythtv-users mailing list
> > mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org
> > http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>


myth at dermanouelian

Feb 21, 2008, 8:08 AM

Post #10 of 28 (1195 views)
Permalink
Re: SVN removal howto [In reply to]

On Feb 21, 2008, at 7:48 AM, Josh White wrote:

> If you read it again, my question is far from impossible to answer.
>
> Someone who has seen the transition from .17 to .18, .18 to .19, .19
> to .20...could conceivably have a better idea of when they started
> hearing "it's close" on the discussion group to "it's here" based on
> how the transitions from the last major versions to the next went.
>
> I'm certainly not looking for someone to base their careers or lives
> on how accurate their guess is, but the general order of magnitude
> of the time till release shouldn't be out of the question for
> someone with more historical knowledge. I'm a bit of a Linux noob
> and I can't code to save my life (compiling anything from source is
> still a challenge for me).
>
> I've been involved with Myth for about 4 months now. Someone more
> knowledgeable would have stronger historical basis, and that's
> probably someone who's been involved with this discussion group
> longer than I, and from all that they'd be able to generate a better
> guess than I would. It's someone like that who I'm asking. If you
> know nothing more than that, please simply ignore the post and wait
> for someone qualified to answer, rather than telling me its
> impossible.
>
> I didn't ask for lottery numbers.
>
> From my background, I feel confident in saying will be out somewhere
> between 1 day to 1 year from now. I expect someone more
> knowledgeable can do better. If you ask a stock broker whether a
> stock is at its peak, they can say "I don't think so" or "I think it
> will be in the next few weeks" or "I think it peaked last month."
> Of course, it's impossible to say with 100% certainty, but I thinks
> it's a decent analogy. Sure, the broker could tell someone to
> "download the historical data and make your own guess," but that
> would be a waste of the work the stock broker already did. As you
> said, this is an OSS project. The idea is to share knowledge and
> not to reinvent the wheel. I could start learning how to program
> and come out with my on PVR software package, but that would be silly.
>
> The reason I ask is I plan to do some setup changes and I'd rather
> wait till the next release to do that. If it's a matter of days or
> weeks, I'll hold off. If it's a matter of months, I'll go ahead and
> make my changes now. I'm not trying to be impatient, and I'm not
> suggesting it's taking too long. I'm simply asking for some
> guidance from the more experienced people in the community.
>
> So does anyone feel confident enough to venture a guess?


The problem with guessing is that you set expectations.

This statement last December:
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/304388
turned into an "announcement" here:
http://mythtvnews.com/2007/12/09/mythtv-021-will-be-released-in-february-2008/

Neither are accurate in my opinion, but there is your guess.

Google is pretty good and finding stuff like that.

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jaw1959 at gmail

Feb 21, 2008, 8:13 AM

Post #11 of 28 (1197 views)
Permalink
Re: SVN removal howto [In reply to]

Cool, thanks. That's all I was looking for.

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Brad DerManouelian <myth[at]dermanouelian.com>
wrote:

> On Feb 21, 2008, at 7:48 AM, Josh White wrote:
>
> > If you read it again, my question is far from impossible to answer.
> >
> > Someone who has seen the transition from .17 to .18, .18 to .19, .19
> > to .20...could conceivably have a better idea of when they started
> > hearing "it's close" on the discussion group to "it's here" based on
> > how the transitions from the last major versions to the next went.
> >
> > I'm certainly not looking for someone to base their careers or lives
> > on how accurate their guess is, but the general order of magnitude
> > of the time till release shouldn't be out of the question for
> > someone with more historical knowledge. I'm a bit of a Linux noob
> > and I can't code to save my life (compiling anything from source is
> > still a challenge for me).
> >
> > I've been involved with Myth for about 4 months now. Someone more
> > knowledgeable would have stronger historical basis, and that's
> > probably someone who's been involved with this discussion group
> > longer than I, and from all that they'd be able to generate a better
> > guess than I would. It's someone like that who I'm asking. If you
> > know nothing more than that, please simply ignore the post and wait
> > for someone qualified to answer, rather than telling me its
> > impossible.
> >
> > I didn't ask for lottery numbers.
> >
> > From my background, I feel confident in saying will be out somewhere
> > between 1 day to 1 year from now. I expect someone more
> > knowledgeable can do better. If you ask a stock broker whether a
> > stock is at its peak, they can say "I don't think so" or "I think it
> > will be in the next few weeks" or "I think it peaked last month."
> > Of course, it's impossible to say with 100% certainty, but I thinks
> > it's a decent analogy. Sure, the broker could tell someone to
> > "download the historical data and make your own guess," but that
> > would be a waste of the work the stock broker already did. As you
> > said, this is an OSS project. The idea is to share knowledge and
> > not to reinvent the wheel. I could start learning how to program
> > and come out with my on PVR software package, but that would be silly.
> >
> > The reason I ask is I plan to do some setup changes and I'd rather
> > wait till the next release to do that. If it's a matter of days or
> > weeks, I'll hold off. If it's a matter of months, I'll go ahead and
> > make my changes now. I'm not trying to be impatient, and I'm not
> > suggesting it's taking too long. I'm simply asking for some
> > guidance from the more experienced people in the community.
> >
> > So does anyone feel confident enough to venture a guess?
>
>
> The problem with guessing is that you set expectations.
>
> This statement last December:
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/304388
> turned into an "announcement" here:
>
> http://mythtvnews.com/2007/12/09/mythtv-021-will-be-released-in-february-2008/
>
> Neither are accurate in my opinion, but there is your guess.
>
> Google is pretty good and finding stuff like that.
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>


nikos.f at gmail

Feb 21, 2008, 10:40 AM

Post #12 of 28 (1195 views)
Permalink
Re: SVN removal howto [In reply to]

On 2/20/08, Mark Hutchinson <mwhutchinson[at]mac.com> wrote:
>
> I want to go back to stable RPMS for a bit. How is the best way to
> remove SVN?


I have a similar question - but less radical. If I want to leave 'svn' and
go to 0.21-fixes - I assume the two databases are currently compatible (same
schema). If I delete my trunk checkout, svn checkout the 0.21-fixes and
compile will I seamlessly now be on 0.21? Any other 'gotchas' going from
SVN to 0.21? I'd rather do it sooner rather than later to avoid there being
different schema versions between SVN and fixes.

Thanks,
Nick


watkinshome at gmail

Feb 21, 2008, 3:02 PM

Post #13 of 28 (1192 views)
Permalink
Re: SVN removal howto [In reply to]

> I have a similar question - but less radical. If I want to leave 'svn' and
> go to 0.21-fixes - I assume the two databases are currently compatible (same
> schema).

I don't think you can assume that.
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nikos.f at gmail

Feb 21, 2008, 6:19 PM

Post #14 of 28 (1186 views)
Permalink
Re: SVN removal howto [In reply to]

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 11:02 PM, David Watkins <watkinshome[at]gmail.com>
wrote:

> > I have a similar question - but less radical. If I want to leave 'svn'
> and
> > go to 0.21-fixes - I assume the two databases are currently compatible
> (same
> > schema).
>
> I don't think you can assume that.
>
> I haven't seen on the commit list any schema differences between the two
branches (0-21-fixes and trunk) currently. I must have missed it then
(given the flurry of activity and the fact I'm travelling). Can you please
point out the schema differences.

Many thanks. I'm sure there must be some others that will take the
opportunity to move from trunk to fixes.

Best
Nick


mtdean at thirdcontact

Feb 21, 2008, 10:27 PM

Post #15 of 28 (1171 views)
Permalink
Re: SVN removal howto [In reply to]

On 02/21/2008 09:19 PM, Nick F wrote:
>
> On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 11:02 PM, David Watkins wrote:
> >
> >> I have a similar question - but less radical. If I want to leave
> >> 'svn' and go to 0.21-fixes - I assume the two databases are
> >> currently compatible (same schema).
> >
> > I don't think you can assume that.
> >
> I haven't seen on the commit list any schema differences between the
> two branches (0-21-fixes and trunk) currently. I must have missed it
> then (given the flurry of activity and the fact I'm travelling). Can
> you please point out the schema differences.
>
> Many thanks. I'm sure there must be some others that will take the
> opportunity to move from trunk to fixes.

They are currently the same version. They may not be the same version
when this hits your inbox (thus David's statement about not being able
to assume...).

Check currentDatabaseVersion in mythtv/libs/libmythtv/dbcheck.cpp in the
-fixes branch and make sure it's greater than or equal to the version
you're currently using. The schema version number appears in the
automatic backup you get (in trunk/0.21-fixes) before a schema change
(i.e. mythconverg-<schemaver>-<datetime>.sql (perhaps .gz, too)).

Mike
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mtdean at thirdcontact

Feb 21, 2008, 10:51 PM

Post #16 of 28 (1175 views)
Permalink
Re: SVN removal howto [In reply to]

On 02/22/2008 01:27 AM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>>>> I have a similar question - but less radical. If I want to leave
>>>> 'svn' and go to 0.21-fixes - I assume the two databases are
>>>> currently compatible (same schema).
> Check currentDatabaseVersion in mythtv/libs/libmythtv/dbcheck.cpp in the
> -fixes branch and make sure it's greater than or equal to the version
> you're currently using. The schema version number appears in the
> automatic backup you get (in trunk/0.21-fixes) before a schema change
> (i.e. mythconverg-<schemaver>-<datetime>.sql (perhaps .gz, too)).

Also should have mentioned that 0.21-fixes/trunk will try to do the
right thing. I.e. if you have an older schema version than required and
start mythfrontend, it will tell you start mythbackend or mythtv-setup
to upgrade your DB (or use the -u flag to allow mythfrontend to upgrade
the schema). If you have a newer schema version than required,
mythtv-setup/mythbackend/mythfrontend will exit with an error saying you
need to upgrade MythTV.

In other words, though it doesn't completely keep you from shooting
yourself in the foot (I'm leaving out instructions for how to do so),
with the automatic backup and the schema version checks/refusal to run
with the wrong schema version, Myth now provides steel-toe boots to help
minimize the damage you'll do.

Mike
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nikos.f at gmail

Feb 22, 2008, 4:07 AM

Post #17 of 28 (1153 views)
Permalink
Re: SVN removal howto [In reply to]

On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 6:51 AM, Michael T. Dean <mtdean[at]thirdcontact.com>
wrote:

> On 02/22/2008 01:27 AM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
> >>>> I have a similar question - but less radical. If I want to leave
> >>>> 'svn' and go to 0.21-fixes - I assume the two databases are
> >>>> currently compatible (same schema).
> > Check currentDatabaseVersion in mythtv/libs/libmythtv/dbcheck.cpp in the
> > -fixes branch and make sure it's greater than or equal to the version
> > you're currently using. The schema version number appears in the
> > automatic backup you get (in trunk/0.21-fixes) before a schema change
> > (i.e. mythconverg-<schemaver>-<datetime>.sql (perhaps .gz, too)).
>
> Also should have mentioned that 0.21-fixes/trunk will try to do the
> right thing. I.e. if you have an older schema version than required and
> start mythfrontend, it will tell you start mythbackend or mythtv-setup
> to upgrade your DB (or use the -u flag to allow mythfrontend to upgrade
> the schema). If you have a newer schema version than required,
> mythtv-setup/mythbackend/mythfrontend will exit with an error saying you
> need to upgrade MythTV.
>
> In other words, though it doesn't completely keep you from shooting
> yourself in the foot (I'm leaving out instructions for how to do so),
> with the automatic backup and the schema version checks/refusal to run
> with the wrong schema version, Myth now provides steel-toe boots to help
> minimize the damage you'll do.


Thanks Mike,

I've double checkd in dbcheck.cpp in both versions (0.21 fixes and trunk)
that I've checked out and both are on 1212 - so I'll give it a try. I've
been using trunk (very successfully) for over a year, but thought it might
be a good time to take a breather and use a stable release for a while. It
seemed like the perfect time to jump off the trunk treadmill, and I was
worried that by the time the official release happened trunk may well be on
a newer schema and I would have lost my window. Again - I'm assuming
(always a bad thing) that there should be no other major 'gotchas' going
from trunk to fixes (given both are on 1212).

I'm pretty sure I'll miss the neat features that keep being added to trunk,
and like a crack addict will come back to trunk within a month after release
though!

Best regards,
Nick


oa at iki

Feb 24, 2008, 4:30 AM

Post #18 of 28 (1133 views)
Permalink
Re: SVN removal howto [In reply to]

On to, 2008-02-21 at 10:48 -0500, Josh White wrote:
> Someone who has seen the transition from .17 to .18, .18 to .19, .19
> to .20...could conceivably have a better idea of when they started
> hearing "it's close" on the discussion group to "it's here" based on
> how the transitions from the last major versions to the next went.

Well.. for what it's worth, I've been using MythTV since 0.18.2. Half a
year ago I was really frustrated by the lack of a stable release (0.20
has never been stable), so I did some research. Since then, I've stopped
caring about it, but here's what I dug up:

First public release, 0.8, was made on March 16th, 2003. Since then, the
release schedule has been one of:

0.9 three months (85 days) later.
0.10 three weeks (22 days) after that.
0.11-0.14 approximately two months apart from each other (64, 53, 56
days).
0.15 and 0.16 four months apart (112 and 107 days)
0.17, five months (154 days)
0.18, two months (63 days)
0.19, 10 months (303 days)
0.20, 7 months (211 days), 0.20.2 one year (349 days) after 0.20.

Still waiting for 0.21.. It's been six months since 0.20.2, or a year
and a half since 0.20. Now there's a promise to make the release this
month, but I wouldn't hold my breath -- it seems to me Trac has as many
open tickets against 0.21 as there's been every time I've looked in the
past.

Like I said, I don't care any more, so no critique implied - simply an
observation of something I've seen fail before.

Given how long 0.21 has been in the making, I'm hesitant to consider an
upgrade anyway - it's probably at least as unstable as 0.20 was. I guess
that's another six months at least for 0.21.2 until it might be stable.
Still, I know I'll probably bite the bullet pretty soon, even if I'm
going to be sorry I did.

//osma

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mtdean at thirdcontact

Feb 24, 2008, 2:39 PM

Post #19 of 28 (1123 views)
Permalink
Re: SVN removal howto [In reply to]

On 02/24/2008 07:30 AM, Osma Ahvenlampi wrote:
> Still waiting for 0.21.. It's been six months since 0.20.2, or a year
> and a half since 0.20. Now there's a promise to make the release this
> month, but I wouldn't hold my breath -- it seems to me Trac has as many
> open tickets against 0.21 as there's been every time I've looked in the
> past.
>

Yeah. Every indication says the project is dead. There's hardly any
activity in Trac and I don't remember the last time I saw a message on
the mailing lists. Plus, most people have moved on to bigger/better
media players, like Elisa and Linux MCE.

> Like I said, I don't care any more, so no critique implied - simply an
> observation of something I've seen fail before.
>
> Given how long 0.21 has been in the making, I'm hesitant to consider an
> upgrade anyway - it's probably at least as unstable as 0.20 was. I guess
> that's another six months at least for 0.21.2 until it might be stable.
> Still, I know I'll probably bite the bullet pretty soon, even if I'm
> going to be sorry I did.

It will all be fixed in 0.21 Service Pack 1.

Mike
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ylee at pobox

Feb 24, 2008, 10:27 PM

Post #20 of 28 (1117 views)
Permalink
Re: SVN removal howto [In reply to]

Michael T. Dean <mtdean[at]thirdcontact.com> says:
> > Still waiting for 0.21.. It's been six months since 0.20.2, or a
> > year and a half since 0.20.
> Yeah. Every indication says the project is dead.

[Rest of Mike's sarcasm--quite apt in this case, I think--deleted]

I'm of two minds on the issue. On the one hand, the
18-months-and-counting spread between 0.20 and 0.21 testifies to just
how usable and feature-complete 0.20 was and is. In my
mind, the two big enhancements in 0.21 will be 1) storage groups and
2) the OpenGL renderer from the former mythth-vid branch. While I'm
glad I finally jumped to SVN (via ATrpms) a couple of weeks ago, there
really was no compelling reason whatsoever in my particular
situation--with no frontend or videocard capable of using the OpenGL
renderer, and having long used the multiple-directories patch in
#1744in lieu of storage groups--to have done so.

On the other hand, it seems the developers unintentionally bit off
more than they could chew in terms of new features for 0.21. Chris Pinkham
committed Storage groups in r12151, way back in November 2006 (just a
few months after 0.20). Some quick searching in SVN shows that
mythtv-vid was merged into trunk in, what, September 2007? In
retrospect, a 0.21 in mid-2007 would have brought support for multiple
recording directories--the single most-important feature enhancement
in this age of ever-increasing storage demands--to the masses that
much sooner, and the OpenGL renderer would be the major focus of 0.22
scheduled for, well, right about now actually.

--
Frontend: P4 3.0GHz, 1.5TB software RAID 5 array
Backend: Quad-core Xeon 1.6GHz, 6.6TB sw RAID 6
Video inputs: Four high-definition over FireWire/OTA
Accessories: 47" 1080p LCD, 5.1 digital, and MX-600
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nikos.f at gmail

Feb 25, 2008, 2:42 AM

Post #21 of 28 (1113 views)
Permalink
Re: SVN removal howto [In reply to]

On 2/25/08, Yeechang Lee <ylee[at]pobox.com> wrote:
>
> Michael T. Dean <mtdean[at]thirdcontact.com> says:
> > > Still waiting for 0.21.. It's been six months since 0.20.2, or a
> > > year and a half since 0.20.
> > Yeah. Every indication says the project is dead.
> .... In my mind, the two big enhancements in 0.21 will be 1) storage
> groups and
> 2) the OpenGL renderer from the former mythth-vid branch. While I'm
> glad I finally jumped to SVN (via ATrpms) a couple of weeks ago, there
> really was no compelling reason whatsoever in my particular
> situation--with no frontend or videocard capable of using the OpenGL
> renderer, and having long used the multiple-directories patch in
> #1744in lieu of storage groups--to have done so.
>
The third 'big enhancement' imho is the multi-rec merge. It's impact may
not be that big in the US, but for those of us on DVB-S and T, it's a really
big deal and another feature that puts Myth head and shoulders above the
competition. There are also a ton of small incremental improvements (like
being able to use multiple processors for ffmpeg decoding of h.264) that
will make this a great release.


ylee at pobox

Feb 25, 2008, 7:30 AM

Post #22 of 28 (1112 views)
Permalink
Re: SVN removal howto [In reply to]

Nick F <nikos.f[at]gmail.com> says:
> The third 'big enhancement' imho is the multi-rec merge.

You are correct and I did forget it. My point still holds, however;
mythtv-multirec was merged even later than mythtv-vid, in January
2008. In retrospect, it could have comprised with mythtv-vid the main
selling points for an 0.22 (or even an 0.23 assuming an 0.22 pushout
with mythtv-vid in late 2007).

--
Frontend: P4 3.0GHz, 1.5TB software RAID 5 array
Backend: Quad-core Xeon 1.6GHz, 6.6TB sw RAID 6
Video inputs: Four high-definition over FireWire/OTA
Accessories: 47" 1080p LCD, 5.1 digital, and MX-600
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myth at dermanouelian

Feb 25, 2008, 8:54 AM

Post #23 of 28 (1112 views)
Permalink
Re: SVN removal howto [In reply to]

On Feb 25, 2008, at 7:30 AM, Yeechang Lee wrote:

> Nick F <nikos.f[at]gmail.com> says:
>> The third 'big enhancement' imho is the multi-rec merge.
>
> You are correct and I did forget it. My point still holds, however;
> mythtv-multirec was merged even later than mythtv-vid, in January
> 2008. In retrospect, it could have comprised with mythtv-vid the main
> selling points

Yeah! How is anyone supposed to sell MythTV if there aren't releases
every 6 months touting all the new features? Both the MythTV Sales and
Marketing departments demand high version numbers to give people the
illusion of progress and good solid version numbers like 6.0 and 7.5
to give people the illusion of stability. Who cares if Mythweb makes
Backend go 100% CPU or Backend frequently segfaults or if tv_play.cpp
segfaults?

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nikos.f at gmail

Feb 25, 2008, 9:35 AM

Post #24 of 28 (1108 views)
Permalink
Re: SVN removal howto [In reply to]

On 2/25/08, Brad DerManouelian <myth[at]dermanouelian.com> wrote:
>
> Yeah! How is anyone supposed to sell MythTV if there aren't releases
> every 6 months touting all the new features? Both the MythTV Sales and
> Marketing departments demand high version numbers to give people the
> illusion of progress and good solid version numbers like 6.0 and 7.5
> to give people the illusion of stability.


Naah - version numbers like 6.0 and 7.5 are so 20th century. There should
be an annual release - this year's would be MythTV 2008, and there would be
a new release annually, even if nothing has changed.


oa at iki

Feb 25, 2008, 10:01 AM

Post #25 of 28 (1105 views)
Permalink
Re: SVN removal howto [In reply to]

On su, 2008-02-24 at 17:39 -0500, Michael T. Dean wrote:
> Yeah. Every indication says the project is dead. There's hardly any
> activity in Trac and I don't remember the last time I saw a message on
> the mailing lists. Plus, most people have moved on to bigger/better
> media players, like Elisa and Linux MCE.

And that's the other turn-off, frankly. I understand and am used to the
attitude that "users don't matter, anyone who this program is meant for
is gonna be comfortable, nay, ecstatic about recompiling SVN on a
weekly, nay, daily, nay, hourly basis (as opposed to, say, recording or
watching something), and reading 500 messages per day on a mailing list
certainly oughtn't be an issue to anyone" -- and personally, I don't
care about that either. However, it's this attitude and the lack of
regular releases that will keep MythTV from ever being mainstream
software, though feature-wise it could easily fit the bill -- it is,
after all, significantly more functional than, say, Windows MCE.

And to this you'll respond "and we don't want to be mainstream if that
means users who can't keep up with the mailing list". That's fine. It's
just not the demonstrated route to REALLY high quality, polished and
"successful" software.

I've made this point before, and I'm not the only one to have done so. I
don't expect this to make any difference, but just in case it might, I
did want to yet again point out there is another way to do things. But
never mind...

I do wish to apologise for one thing in my mail from yesterday. After
realizing multirec is in, I did bite the bullet, build a new version,
back up everything, cancel a few recordings, talk my girlfriend into a
possible "no TV for a while" trial, and upgrade my backend to
0.21-fixes. Much to my delight, it did work without any regressions that
I would have noticed (*), and I haven't had to roll back -- 0.21 looks
like it might indeed be (much) better than I expected. Now to test
multirec...

*) well, LiveTV did crash the system, but I don't use LiveTV, so I
didn't try again. Might do so later.


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